"That explains why so many European and Syrian Jews have blue eyes and blond hair," Ostrer says. It also explains another of the team's findings — that the population most closely related genetically to European Jews are Italians.
Italian Catholicism is very much anti-Jew... I dont think that every Italian is a Catholic though...
Italian Catholicism is very much anti-Jew... I dont think that every Italian is a Catholic though...
I am one and have yet to see any that are Anti Jewish. I for one am an American with Italian roots ( I hate calling myself an Italian American ) and a Catholic and was taught from a very young age to love the Jews as you would love your own. The ones that are anti semites aren't really Catholic and are a disgrace to anything period. I am sure there are a handful like any other group but there is a majority who do love. Not long ago in Rome which is the epic center of Catholics there was a big pro Israel/Jewish demonstration made of all Italians. They held both the Israeli and Italian flags together. All the monks and people around. Of course this wouldn't get media attention cause something like this they hide.
Italian Catholicism is very much anti-Jew... I dont think that every Italian is a Catholic though...
I am one and have yet to see any that are Anti Jewish. I for one am an American with Italian roots ( I hate calling myself an Italian American ) and a Catholic and was taught from a very young age to love the Jews as you would love your own. The ones that are anti semites aren't really Catholic and are a disgrace to anything period. I am sure there are a handful like any other group but there is a majority who do love. Not long ago in Rome which is the epic center of Catholics there was a big pro Israel/Jewish demonstration made of all Italians. They held both the Israeli and Italian flags together. All the monks and people around. Of course this wouldn't get media attention cause something like this they hide.
What is wrong with that Pope then?
Italian Catholicism is very much anti-Jew... I dont think that every Italian is a Catholic though...
I am one and have yet to see any that are Anti Jewish. I for one am an American with Italian roots ( I hate calling myself an Italian American ) and a Catholic and was taught from a very young age to love the Jews as you would love your own. The ones that are anti semites aren't really Catholic and are a disgrace to anything period. I am sure there are a handful like any other group but there is a majority who do love. Not long ago in Rome which is the epic center of Catholics there was a big pro Israel/Jewish demonstration made of all Italians. They held both the Israeli and Italian flags together. All the monks and people around. Of course this wouldn't get media attention cause something like this they hide.
He is not Italian
What is wrong with that Pope then?
It's historical fact that American Italians and Jews living side by side in Queens and NYC were good neighbors to each other, living in harmony.I grew up in one of those neighborhoods. I learned that I have more in common with my Jewish friends, then not.
Many Jewish businesses were protected from violent black criminals and thugs by the Italian mafia as well.
Let's not forget the RCC and the Pope's crimes against the the Jews during, before and way before the Holocaust. Let's not forget Fascist Italy too.
[/quuote] The Italian Fascists were hardly anti semitic some of the most prominent Fascists in the beggining of the Fascist movement in Italy were Jewish.Hitler told Mussolini to be anti semitic.Even with all Hitlers prompting wherever the Italian Army were they saved Jews in Croatia for example they raided the Croatians to save Jews google it if you don't believe me.
Let's not forget the RCC and the Pope's crimes against the the Jews during, before and way before the Holocaust. Let's not forget Fascist Italy too.
[/quuote] The Italian Fascists were hardly anti semitic some of the most prominent Fascists in the beggining of the Fascist movement in Italy were Jewish.Hitler told Mussolini to be anti semitic.Even with all Hitlers prompting wherever the Italian Army were they saved Jews in Croatia for example they raided the Croatians to save Jews google it if you don't believe me.
The Italians worshipped Mussolini who was Hitler's best friend, sent Jews to Auschwitz and even led the concentration camps in Croatia where Jews from Italy, Northern Africa and Hungary were murdered. Italy had its own Nurenberg laws and the fact that they were Jews in the Fascist movement means nothing because they were WAY MORE Jews in the Communist party as well. The Italians glorified the Roman Nazi Empire and if Jews took part in it it just shows how self-hating they are.
Stop looking for the love of the Gentile.
You sure you want to stand by that statement?Let's not forget the RCC and the Pope's crimes against the the Jews during, before and way before the Holocaust. Let's not forget Fascist Italy too.
[/quuote] The Italian Fascists were hardly anti semitic some of the most prominent Fascists in the beggining of the Fascist movement in Italy were Jewish.Hitler told Mussolini to be anti semitic.Even with all Hitlers prompting wherever the Italian Army were they saved Jews in Croatia for example they raided the Croatians to save Jews google it if you don't believe me.
The Italians worshipped Mussolini who was Hitler's best friend, sent Jews to Auschwitz and even led the concentration camps in Croatia where Jews from Italy, Northern Africa and Hungary were murdered. Italy had its own Nurenberg laws and the fact that they were Jews in the Fascist movement means nothing because they were WAY MORE Jews in the Communist party as well. The Italians glorified the Roman Nazi Empire and if Jews took part in it it just shows how self-hating they are.
Stop looking for the love of the Gentile.
You sure you want to stand by that statement?Let's not forget the RCC and the Pope's crimes against the the Jews during, before and way before the Holocaust. Let's not forget Fascist Italy too.
[/quuote] The Italian Fascists were hardly anti semitic some of the most prominent Fascists in the beggining of the Fascist movement in Italy were Jewish.Hitler told Mussolini to be anti semitic.Even with all Hitlers prompting wherever the Italian Army were they saved Jews in Croatia for example they raided the Croatians to save Jews google it if you don't believe me.
The Italians worshipped Mussolini who was Hitler's best friend, sent Jews to Auschwitz and even led the concentration camps in Croatia where Jews from Italy, Northern Africa and Hungary were murdered. Italy had its own Nurenberg laws and the fact that they were Jews in the Fascist movement means nothing because they were WAY MORE Jews in the Communist party as well. The Italians glorified the Roman Nazi Empire and if Jews took part in it it just shows how self-hating they are.
Stop looking for the love of the Gentile.
Yup
alright thenYou sure you want to stand by that statement?Let's not forget the RCC and the Pope's crimes against the the Jews during, before and way before the Holocaust. Let's not forget Fascist Italy too.
[/quuote] The Italian Fascists were hardly anti semitic some of the most prominent Fascists in the beggining of the Fascist movement in Italy were Jewish.Hitler told Mussolini to be anti semitic.Even with all Hitlers prompting wherever the Italian Army were they saved Jews in Croatia for example they raided the Croatians to save Jews google it if you don't believe me.
The Italians worshipped Mussolini who was Hitler's best friend, sent Jews to Auschwitz and even led the concentration camps in Croatia where Jews from Italy, Northern Africa and Hungary were murdered. Italy had its own Nurenberg laws and the fact that they were Jews in the Fascist movement means nothing because they were WAY MORE Jews in the Communist party as well. The Italians glorified the Roman Nazi Empire and if Jews took part in it it just shows how self-hating they are.
Stop looking for the love of the Gentile.
Yup
http://www1.yadvashem.org.il/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%204803.pdf
alright thenYou sure you want to stand by that statement?Let's not forget the RCC and the Pope's crimes against the the Jews during, before and way before the Holocaust. Let's not forget Fascist Italy too.
[/quuote] The Italian Fascists were hardly anti semitic some of the most prominent Fascists in the beggining of the Fascist movement in Italy were Jewish.Hitler told Mussolini to be anti semitic.Even with all Hitlers prompting wherever the Italian Army were they saved Jews in Croatia for example they raided the Croatians to save Jews google it if you don't believe me.
The Italians worshipped Mussolini who was Hitler's best friend, sent Jews to Auschwitz and even led the concentration camps in Croatia where Jews from Italy, Northern Africa and Hungary were murdered. Italy had its own Nurenberg laws and the fact that they were Jews in the Fascist movement means nothing because they were WAY MORE Jews in the Communist party as well. The Italians glorified the Roman Nazi Empire and if Jews took part in it it just shows how self-hating they are.
Stop looking for the love of the Gentile.
Yup
http://www1.yadvashem.org.il/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%204803.pdf
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/the-holocaust-14968?page=all
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/1992/nov/05/holocaust-heroes/alright thenYou sure you want to stand by that statement?Let's not forget the RCC and the Pope's crimes against the the Jews during, before and way before the Holocaust. Let's not forget Fascist Italy too.
[/quuote] The Italian Fascists were hardly anti semitic some of the most prominent Fascists in the beggining of the Fascist movement in Italy were Jewish.Hitler told Mussolini to be anti semitic.Even with all Hitlers prompting wherever the Italian Army were they saved Jews in Croatia for example they raided the Croatians to save Jews google it if you don't believe me.
The Italians worshipped Mussolini who was Hitler's best friend, sent Jews to Auschwitz and even led the concentration camps in Croatia where Jews from Italy, Northern Africa and Hungary were murdered. Italy had its own Nurenberg laws and the fact that they were Jews in the Fascist movement means nothing because they were WAY MORE Jews in the Communist party as well. The Italians glorified the Roman Nazi Empire and if Jews took part in it it just shows how self-hating they are.
Stop looking for the love of the Gentile.
Yup
http://www1.yadvashem.org.il/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%204803.pdf
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/the-holocaust-14968?page=all
alright thenYou sure you want to stand by that statement?Let's not forget the RCC and the Pope's crimes against the the Jews during, before and way before the Holocaust. Let's not forget Fascist Italy too.
[/quuote] The Italian Fascists were hardly anti semitic some of the most prominent Fascists in the beggining of the Fascist movement in Italy were Jewish.Hitler told Mussolini to be anti semitic.Even with all Hitlers prompting wherever the Italian Army were they saved Jews in Croatia for example they raided the Croatians to save Jews google it if you don't believe me.
The Italians worshipped Mussolini who was Hitler's best friend, sent Jews to Auschwitz and even led the concentration camps in Croatia where Jews from Italy, Northern Africa and Hungary were murdered. Italy had its own Nurenberg laws and the fact that they were Jews in the Fascist movement means nothing because they were WAY MORE Jews in the Communist party as well. The Italians glorified the Roman Nazi Empire and if Jews took part in it it just shows how self-hating they are.
Stop looking for the love of the Gentile.
Yup
http://www1.yadvashem.org.il/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%204803.pdf
You got it
http://www.amazon.com/Third-Reich-New-History/dp/080909326X
https://www.yeshiva.org.il/wiki/index.php?title=%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%90%D7%AA_%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95%D7%93%D7%99_%D7%90%D7%99%D7%98%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%94
The first link in English has very little to do with Italy.The second link in Herew can be explained in this section of linkalright thenYou sure you want to stand by that statement?Let's not forget the RCC and the Pope's crimes against the the Jews during, before and way before the Holocaust. Let's not forget Fascist Italy too.
[/quuote] The Italian Fascists were hardly anti semitic some of the most prominent Fascists in the beggining of the Fascist movement in Italy were Jewish.Hitler told Mussolini to be anti semitic.Even with all Hitlers prompting wherever the Italian Army were they saved Jews in Croatia for example they raided the Croatians to save Jews google it if you don't believe me.
The Italians worshipped Mussolini who was Hitler's best friend, sent Jews to Auschwitz and even led the concentration camps in Croatia where Jews from Italy, Northern Africa and Hungary were murdered. Italy had its own Nurenberg laws and the fact that they were Jews in the Fascist movement means nothing because they were WAY MORE Jews in the Communist party as well. The Italians glorified the Roman Nazi Empire and if Jews took part in it it just shows how self-hating they are.
Stop looking for the love of the Gentile.
Yup
http://www1.yadvashem.org.il/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%204803.pdf
You got it
http://www.amazon.com/Third-Reich-New-History/dp/080909326X
https://www.yeshiva.org.il/wiki/index.php?title=%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%90%D7%AA_%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95%D7%93%D7%99_%D7%90%D7%99%D7%98%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%94
http://histclo.com/Country/it/min/im-jew.html
Mussollini and the FascistsThe first link in English has very little to do with Italy.The second link in Herew can be explained in this section of linkalright thenYou sure you want to stand by that statement?Let's not forget the RCC and the Pope's crimes against the the Jews during, before and way before the Holocaust. Let's not forget Fascist Italy too.
[/quuote] The Italian Fascists were hardly anti semitic some of the most prominent Fascists in the beggining of the Fascist movement in Italy were Jewish.Hitler told Mussolini to be anti semitic.Even with all Hitlers prompting wherever the Italian Army were they saved Jews in Croatia for example they raided the Croatians to save Jews google it if you don't believe me.
The Italians worshipped Mussolini who was Hitler's best friend, sent Jews to Auschwitz and even led the concentration camps in Croatia where Jews from Italy, Northern Africa and Hungary were murdered. Italy had its own Nurenberg laws and the fact that they were Jews in the Fascist movement means nothing because they were WAY MORE Jews in the Communist party as well. The Italians glorified the Roman Nazi Empire and if Jews took part in it it just shows how self-hating they are.
Stop looking for the love of the Gentile.
Yup
http://www1.yadvashem.org.il/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%204803.pdf
You got it
http://www.amazon.com/Third-Reich-New-History/dp/080909326X
https://www.yeshiva.org.il/wiki/index.php?title=%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%90%D7%AA_%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95%D7%93%D7%99_%D7%90%D7%99%D7%98%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%94
http://histclo.com/Country/it/min/im-jew.html
Mussolini and the Fascists seized power in Italy. The Fascists were not initially ravidly anti-Simetic. Mussollini in fact had Jewish supporters. This Gradually changed. Gradually German influence grew. The Fascists enacted the Falco Laws which abrogated article 8 of the Italian constitution guaranteeing religious freedom. Mussolini coming under increasing NAZI influence issued the Manifesto of Italian Racism and declared the Italians to be part of a "pure race" (1938). The Jews were excluded from the pure Italian race. The Fascists proceeded to expell Jews from all public services, including government posts, the army and public schools. Italian Jews began leaving Italy, but as with Jews fleeing the NAZIS, it was hard to find countries to accept them.
The Holocaust
Mussolini was not strongly committed to anti-semitism. Mussolini only imposed the first anti-Jewish regulations in 1938, after prompting from Hitler. Italy had a relatively small Jewish popularion of only about 45,000 people. The Italian people and Catholic clergy, however, managed to hide most of their Jews fron the NAZIs and Fascists. Italian Jews were thus spared the full force of the Holocaust and many managed to survive. The worst time came after Mussolinin was deposed and Italy surrenderedc to the Allies. The Germans quickly disarmed the Italian Army and occupied the country. They used the opportunity to begin rounding up and transporting Jews to the death camps. The Germans only managed to deport and kill about 15 percent of Italy's Jews, the lowest ratio in among occupied countries. This is especially surprising given the fact that Italy was an Axis partner. The lack of commitment on the aprt of Mussolini to genocide and the realtively short paeriod of German occupation are factors in the survival of Italian Jews. Considerable controvery surrounds the role of Pope Pious XII. Despite considerable anti-semitism among Catholic clerics, the clergy played a major role in saving Italian Jews. Ilalian priests, nuns, and monks hid Jews in monasteries, convents, schools, and churches. Jewish families were sheltered and fed at great risk to the individuals involved. One historain describes "massive support" on the part of the clergy often without orders from their superiors for the rescue effort.
Post-war Italy
Unlike many European countries, most Italian Jews survived the War. They were hidden by neigbors, friends, strangers, nd the Church. Few of those deported by the NAZIs survived to return. Jews in Italy weith the defeat of the Fascists were rstored as full citizens. Many Italian Jews emmigrated to Isreael after it was founded (1949). Other Jews remained in Italy to attempt to reconstruct their lives. Here it was easier than in many other countries as most Jews had surviving family members and neighbors. The Catholic Church's attitude toward Jews began to change with Pope John XXIII and Vatican II. The Church absolved Jews of any responsibility for the death of Jesus and renounced the centuries old claim that Jews had been rejected by God.
The first link in English has very little to do with Italy.The second link in Herew can be explained in this section of linkalright thenYou sure you want to stand by that statement?Let's not forget the RCC and the Pope's crimes against the the Jews during, before and way before the Holocaust. Let's not forget Fascist Italy too.
[/quuote] The Italian Fascists were hardly anti semitic some of the most prominent Fascists in the beggining of the Fascist movement in Italy were Jewish.Hitler told Mussolini to be anti semitic.Even with all Hitlers prompting wherever the Italian Army were they saved Jews in Croatia for example they raided the Croatians to save Jews google it if you don't believe me.
The Italians worshipped Mussolini who was Hitler's best friend, sent Jews to Auschwitz and even led the concentration camps in Croatia where Jews from Italy, Northern Africa and Hungary were murdered. Italy had its own Nurenberg laws and the fact that they were Jews in the Fascist movement means nothing because they were WAY MORE Jews in the Communist party as well. The Italians glorified the Roman Nazi Empire and if Jews took part in it it just shows how self-hating they are.
Stop looking for the love of the Gentile.
Yup
http://www1.yadvashem.org.il/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%204803.pdf
You got it
http://www.amazon.com/Third-Reich-New-History/dp/080909326X
https://www.yeshiva.org.il/wiki/index.php?title=%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%90%D7%AA_%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95%D7%93%D7%99_%D7%90%D7%99%D7%98%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%94
http://histclo.com/Country/it/min/im-jew.html
The first link is a book that if you're honest with yourself intelectually you will buy it and study it, because it refutes the points you made in the articles above.
http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%9E%D7%97%D7%A0%D7%94_%D7%94%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%96_%D7%A4%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%99
http://he.bukisa.com/topics/%D7%90%D7%99%D7%98%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%94-%D7%91%D7%AA%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%A4%D7%AA-%D7%94%D7%A4%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%96%D7%9D
etc........................
Can't deny the fact that Fascist Italy was made of the Italian PEOPLE and not Italian Fascists only, the army, the police, etc. Thinking otherwise is thinking like a Commie.
You have no idea what was in the heart of the Italian people in Fascist Italy.The first link in English has very little to do with Italy.The second link in Herew can be explained in this section of linkalright thenYou sure you want to stand by that statement?Let's not forget the RCC and the Pope's crimes against the the Jews during, before and way before the Holocaust. Let's not forget Fascist Italy too.
[/quuote] The Italian Fascists were hardly anti semitic some of the most prominent Fascists in the beggining of the Fascist movement in Italy were Jewish.Hitler told Mussolini to be anti semitic.Even with all Hitlers prompting wherever the Italian Army were they saved Jews in Croatia for example they raided the Croatians to save Jews google it if you don't believe me.
The Italians worshipped Mussolini who was Hitler's best friend, sent Jews to Auschwitz and even led the concentration camps in Croatia where Jews from Italy, Northern Africa and Hungary were murdered. Italy had its own Nurenberg laws and the fact that they were Jews in the Fascist movement means nothing because they were WAY MORE Jews in the Communist party as well. The Italians glorified the Roman Nazi Empire and if Jews took part in it it just shows how self-hating they are.
Stop looking for the love of the Gentile.
Yup
http://www1.yadvashem.org.il/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%204803.pdf
You got it
http://www.amazon.com/Third-Reich-New-History/dp/080909326X
https://www.yeshiva.org.il/wiki/index.php?title=%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%90%D7%AA_%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95%D7%93%D7%99_%D7%90%D7%99%D7%98%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%94
http://histclo.com/Country/it/min/im-jew.html
The first link is a book that if you're honest with yourself intelectually you will buy it and study it, because it refutes the points you made in the articles above.
http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%9E%D7%97%D7%A0%D7%94_%D7%94%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%96_%D7%A4%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%99
http://he.bukisa.com/topics/%D7%90%D7%99%D7%98%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%94-%D7%91%D7%AA%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%A4%D7%AA-%D7%94%D7%A4%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%96%D7%9D
etc........................
Can't deny the fact that Fascist Italy was made of the Italian PEOPLE and not Italian Fascists only, the army, the police, etc. Thinking otherwise is thinking like a Commie.
I do have some idea.
My mother was a child during World War II in Italy. My father served in the European Theater in World War II.
My father is an Italian American. We are Catholic. I have never heard any anti semitism within my home, extended family or church. I have heard countless recountings of those times. From many different living sources. Not from a book that is aligned with your opinions. I never hear anti semitism. In fact, I hear the opposite. My father had a knock down drag out fight with a very close relative who is a holocaust denier.
What makes your sources the definitive ones as opposed to Mords? I am exposed to people who live and breathed during that period in history.
Place the blame for those atrocities at the feet of the correct people. Take it up with Hitler and Mussolini.
You have bigger enemies in this world then the Italian or Catholic people.
don't worry.i don't think anyone here is a definite anti italian.i am myself a fond of italian and roman culture.You have no idea what was in the heart of the Italian people in Fascist Italy.The first link in English has very little to do with Italy.The second link in Herew can be explained in this section of linkalright thenYou sure you want to stand by that statement?Let's not forget the RCC and the Pope's crimes against the the Jews during, before and way before the Holocaust. Let's not forget Fascist Italy too.
[/quuote] The Italian Fascists were hardly anti semitic some of the most prominent Fascists in the beggining of the Fascist movement in Italy were Jewish.Hitler told Mussolini to be anti semitic.Even with all Hitlers prompting wherever the Italian Army were they saved Jews in Croatia for example they raided the Croatians to save Jews google it if you don't believe me.
The Italians worshipped Mussolini who was Hitler's best friend, sent Jews to Auschwitz and even led the concentration camps in Croatia where Jews from Italy, Northern Africa and Hungary were murdered. Italy had its own Nurenberg laws and the fact that they were Jews in the Fascist movement means nothing because they were WAY MORE Jews in the Communist party as well. The Italians glorified the Roman Nazi Empire and if Jews took part in it it just shows how self-hating they are.
Stop looking for the love of the Gentile.
Yup
http://www1.yadvashem.org.il/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%204803.pdf
You got it
http://www.amazon.com/Third-Reich-New-History/dp/080909326X
https://www.yeshiva.org.il/wiki/index.php?title=%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%90%D7%AA_%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95%D7%93%D7%99_%D7%90%D7%99%D7%98%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%94
http://histclo.com/Country/it/min/im-jew.html
The first link is a book that if you're honest with yourself intelectually you will buy it and study it, because it refutes the points you made in the articles above.
http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%9E%D7%97%D7%A0%D7%94_%D7%94%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%96_%D7%A4%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%99
http://he.bukisa.com/topics/%D7%90%D7%99%D7%98%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%94-%D7%91%D7%AA%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%A4%D7%AA-%D7%94%D7%A4%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%96%D7%9D
etc........................
Can't deny the fact that Fascist Italy was made of the Italian PEOPLE and not Italian Fascists only, the army, the police, etc. Thinking otherwise is thinking like a Commie.
I do have some idea.
My mother was a child during World War II in Italy. My father served in the European Theater in World War II.
My father is an Italian American. We are Catholic. I have never heard any anti semitism within my home, extended family or church. I have heard countless recountings of those times. From many different living sources. Not from a book that is aligned with your opinions. I never hear anti semitism. In fact, I hear the opposite. My father had a knock down drag out fight with a very close relative who is a holocaust denier.
What makes your sources the definitive ones as opposed to Mords? I am exposed to people who live and breathed during that period in history.
Place the blame for those atrocities at the feet of the correct people. Take it up with Hitler and Mussolini.
You have bigger enemies in this world then the Italian or Catholic people.
OMG! Many many Italians have an outright HATRED towards Jews. Many are still today taught at Catholic schools that Jews were the murderers of Jesus. And "Jew" is used by many Italians to describe a greedy person or a swindler. BTW: This is the same as in Turkey. "yahudi" also means swindler and greedy person in Turkey, while "yahudilik" (Jewishness) means fraudulent behaviour or lack of loyalty... Once again, Italy and Turkey have something in common.
You have no idea what was in the heart of the Italian people in Fascist Italy.
I do have some idea.
My mother was a child during World War II in Italy. My father served in the European Theater in World War II.
My father is an Italian American. We are Catholic. I have never heard any anti semitism within my home, extended family or church. I have heard countless recountings of those times. From many different living sources. Not from a book that is aligned with your opinions. I never hear anti semitism. In fact, I hear the opposite. My father had a knock down drag out fight with a very close relative who is a holocaust denier.
What makes your sources the definitive ones as opposed to Mords? I am exposed to people who live and breathed during that period in history.
Place the blame for those atrocities at the feet of the correct people. Take it up with Hitler and Mussolini.
You have bigger enemies in this world then the Italian or Catholic people.
You have no idea what was in the heart of the Italian people in Fascist Italy.The first link in English has very little to do with Italy.The second link in Herew can be explained in this section of linkalright thenYou sure you want to stand by that statement?Let's not forget the RCC and the Pope's crimes against the the Jews during, before and way before the Holocaust. Let's not forget Fascist Italy too.
[/quuote] The Italian Fascists were hardly anti semitic some of the most prominent Fascists in the beggining of the Fascist movement in Italy were Jewish.Hitler told Mussolini to be anti semitic.Even with all Hitlers prompting wherever the Italian Army were they saved Jews in Croatia for example they raided the Croatians to save Jews google it if you don't believe me.
The Italians worshipped Mussolini who was Hitler's best friend, sent Jews to Auschwitz and even led the concentration camps in Croatia where Jews from Italy, Northern Africa and Hungary were murdered. Italy had its own Nurenberg laws and the fact that they were Jews in the Fascist movement means nothing because they were WAY MORE Jews in the Communist party as well. The Italians glorified the Roman Nazi Empire and if Jews took part in it it just shows how self-hating they are.
Stop looking for the love of the Gentile.
Yup
http://www1.yadvashem.org.il/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%204803.pdf
You got it
http://www.amazon.com/Third-Reich-New-History/dp/080909326X
https://www.yeshiva.org.il/wiki/index.php?title=%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%90%D7%AA_%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95%D7%93%D7%99_%D7%90%D7%99%D7%98%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%94
http://histclo.com/Country/it/min/im-jew.html
The first link is a book that if you're honest with yourself intelectually you will buy it and study it, because it refutes the points you made in the articles above.
http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%9E%D7%97%D7%A0%D7%94_%D7%94%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%96_%D7%A4%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%99
http://he.bukisa.com/topics/%D7%90%D7%99%D7%98%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%94-%D7%91%D7%AA%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%A4%D7%AA-%D7%94%D7%A4%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%96%D7%9D
etc........................
Can't deny the fact that Fascist Italy was made of the Italian PEOPLE and not Italian Fascists only, the army, the police, etc. Thinking otherwise is thinking like a Commie.
I do have some idea.
My mother was a child during World War II in Italy. My father served in the European Theater in World War II.
My father is an Italian American. We are Catholic. I have never heard any anti semitism within my home, extended family or church. I have heard countless recountings of those times. From many different living sources. Not from a book that is aligned with your opinions. I never hear anti semitism. In fact, I hear the opposite. My father had a knock down drag out fight with a very close relative who is a holocaust denier.
What makes your sources the definitive ones as opposed to Mords? I am exposed to people who live and breathed during that period in history.
Place the blame for those atrocities at the feet of the correct people. Take it up with Hitler and Mussolini.
You have bigger enemies in this world then the Italian or Catholic people.
I agree. You know, my mother (obm) was raised an Italian Catholic; she attended Catholic school until about 8th grade, then went to public school. She converted to Torah Judaism when she was 18, and then met (and later married) my father when she was 21. My mother converted to Judaism during World War Two, not exactly a great time to announce you want to be Jewish. For most of her life she was the only convert she knew. She wound up being far more frum than my Jewish grandparents, something they disliked her for (can you imagine?)
I'm pretty sure she did not have an antisemitic bone in her body, not with all she had to endure first to become Jewish, but also to survive as a frum Yid, because she was always having stumbling blocks put in her way by my BORN Jewish grandparents.
Her family were not the most devout Catholics, but knowing them as I did, even if they had been I doubt they would have hated Jews. They made accomodations all the time for my mom, me, my sister, my dad, even getting kosher food for us. This was back in the day when nobody did this, long before "ecumenical" became a trendy term in the world.
I am just as proud of my Italian heritage as I am of my Jewishness, and I am glad to know of others here who are Americans of Italian descent, esp. fellow Jewtalians! ;D
(And remember, Mussolini was only one man, driven by a lust for power, not a true hatred of Jews. His mistress was Jewish, and he often ridiculed Hitler behind his back because he didn't understand why Hitler hated Jews so much. Mussolini was also a Zionist, a friend of Jabotinsky, and helped Jabotinsky to a point.) Nevertheless my mother (and her family) hated Mussolini with a passion.)
NOTE: I bolded what I said because I can't figure out how to keep what I'm saying separate from the quoted part!
And even if they do hate, is it the same as muslim hatred?
Are they known for killing Jews?
I have met Jews that didn't like Italians. ::)
I've met Italians who didn't like Jews.
But its more like annoyance than hatred.
And even if they do hate, is it the same as muslim hatred?
Are they known for killing Jews?
Shouldn't think this way.
Italians are wonderful people and I'm really glad we have so many people of Italian descent on JTF.me too.i love italians! VIVA ITLAIA.VIVA EUROPA.VIVA ISRAEL.VIVA UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
I wonder how many good people will be driven away from this board by piggish behavior.
Italians are wonderful people and I'm really glad we have so many people of Italian descent on JTF.me too.i love italians! VIVA ITLAIA.VIVA EUROPA.VIVA ISRAEL.VIVA UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
I wonder how many good people will be driven away from this board by piggish behavior.
Currently, you're the one flaming endlessly without no serious response to the arguments me and Muman make. I wish I wouldn't laugh when I read your whininig.You can laugh when you read my posts, Arise Judah.
People here know my views on Christianity and I will never hide it. America will be doomed as long as the enemies of the Jewish people, among them them Italy as a country (not specifically Italian Americans who are AMERICANS and not Italians, and if they feel sympathy with their Hitler-co-operating brothers, their problem and their doom), will be praised. I wouldn't wonder if it will end up like Germany - roasted and crippled from the inside, until the final blow of the pigs of Jihad.
He doesn't give a damn what happens to JTF in America. I think he wants America to go to hell.
He doesn't give a damn what happens to JTF in America. I think he wants America to go to hell.It's too bad. To have such high intelligence, but no commonsense. The movement here in America is important to Israel too.
He doesn't give a damn what happens to JTF in America. I think he wants America to go to hell.we should all learn from america.if they will go we and europe will be next.
It's too bad. To have such high intelligence, but no commonsense. The movement here in America is important to Israel too.He doesn't give a damn what happens to JTF in America. I think he wants America to go to hell.
He doesn't give a damn what happens to JTF in America. I think he wants America to go to hell.
So now I exist, Ruby? I surely don't care if you go to hell, but I love Americans such as Dan Ben Noah.
they attack you ,you're the one attacking them
I have to say I love most Italians, they are straight shooters and are usually on the side of G-d and morality. They also don't take crap which I think is just terrific!
Ruby and Bullcat your decent enough people and I love and respect you, but why are you telling Ron to go back to the Hebrew forum. I happen to enjoy Ron here and he is not Anti Christian or Anti American. Remember Ron is being attacked by everyone, all over the internet and he is defending himself. Maybe he says things he doesn't mean but on most issues he is right. There is allot of Anti Semitism in Italy and all over Europe including Ireland. Does that mean all Italians and Irish hate The Jews? Ron is just pointing out the evils that exist there and has a right to do so as any righteous person does.He doesn't give a damn what happens to JTF in America. I think he wants America to go to hell.
So now I exist, Ruby? I surely don't care if you go to hell, but I love Americans such as Dan Ben Noah.
I wish you would go back to the Hebrew forum.
Ruby and Bullcat your decent enough people and I love and respect you, but why are you telling Ron to go back to the Hebrew forum. I happen to enjoy Ron here and he is not Anti Christian or Anti American. Remember Ron is being attacked by everyone, all over the internet and he is defending himself. Maybe he says things he doesn't mean but on most issues he is right. There is allot of Anti Semitism in Italy and all over Europe including Ireland. Does that mean all Italians and Irish hate The Jews? Ron is just pointing out the evils that exist there and has a right to do so as any righteous person does.He doesn't give a damn what happens to JTF in America. I think he wants America to go to hell.
So now I exist, Ruby? I surely don't care if you go to hell, but I love Americans such as Dan Ben Noah.
I wish you would go back to the Hebrew forum.
Ruby and Bullcat your decent enough people and I love and respect you, but why are you telling Ron to go back to the Hebrew forum.
I think Sweden and and Spain are trying to compete for the leadRuby and Bullcat your decent enough people and I love and respect you, but why are you telling Ron to go back to the Hebrew forum. I happen to enjoy Ron here and he is not Anti Christian or Anti American. Remember Ron is being attacked by everyone, all over the internet and he is defending himself. Maybe he says things he doesn't mean but on most issues he is right. There is allot of Anti Semitism in Italy and all over Europe including Ireland. Does that mean all Italians and Irish hate The Jews? Ron is just pointing out the evils that exist there and has a right to do so as any righteous person does.He doesn't give a damn what happens to JTF in America. I think he wants America to go to hell.
So now I exist, Ruby? I surely don't care if you go to hell, but I love Americans such as Dan Ben Noah.
I wish you would go back to the Hebrew forum.
It is true that ALL European countries - every single one - has it's portion of anti-Semitism. Italy is nothing worse and nothing better than any other country in that matter. But I think the issue is not THAT he points these things out rather than HOW. To some people it might sound quite harsh. Then they feel offended, which is normal.
I personally don't care what forum Ron belongs to. He has the right to participate here. I just don't believe that many of his posts are helpful to JTF.Ruby and Bullcat your decent enough people and I love and respect you, but why are you telling Ron to go back to the Hebrew forum. I happen to enjoy Ron here and he is not Anti Christian or Anti American. Remember Ron is being attacked by everyone, all over the internet and he is defending himself. Maybe he says things he doesn't mean but on most issues he is right. There is allot of Anti Semitism in Italy and all over Europe including Ireland. Does that mean all Italians and Irish hate The Jews? Ron is just pointing out the evils that exist there and has a right to do so as any righteous person does.He doesn't give a damn what happens to JTF in America. I think he wants America to go to hell.
So now I exist, Ruby? I surely don't care if you go to hell, but I love Americans such as Dan Ben Noah.
I wish you would go back to the Hebrew forum.
I wasn't offend by how he said Jesus and yes i'm a Christian too (btw Muman explained about Jews using the name Jesus and I suggest you read it over). Ok he sent a hateful message to you in private but I think you too should either try and work things out in private and try not to attack Ron personally and same goes to Ron. If you two don't patch things up then this will just keep getting worse and worse.Ruby and Bullcat your decent enough people and I love and respect you, but why are you telling Ron to go back to the Hebrew forum.
A while back he sent me a very hateful message in private which I shared with the admins and that's why I have avoided talking with him for a while now.
He made fun of Jesus' name. How would you feel if I made fun of the name of Maimonides or the Lubavitcher Rebbe? I wouldn't want to do that anyway. Would you be more upset with me if I did that than you are about what Ron said? I bet you would.
I think Sweden and and Spain are trying to compete for the leadRuby and Bullcat your decent enough people and I love and respect you, but why are you telling Ron to go back to the Hebrew forum. I happen to enjoy Ron here and he is not Anti Christian or Anti American. Remember Ron is being attacked by everyone, all over the internet and he is defending himself. Maybe he says things he doesn't mean but on most issues he is right. There is allot of Anti Semitism in Italy and all over Europe including Ireland. Does that mean all Italians and Irish hate The Jews? Ron is just pointing out the evils that exist there and has a right to do so as any righteous person does.He doesn't give a damn what happens to JTF in America. I think he wants America to go to hell.
So now I exist, Ruby? I surely don't care if you go to hell, but I love Americans such as Dan Ben Noah.
I wish you would go back to the Hebrew forum.
It is true that ALL European countries - every single one - has it's portion of anti-Semitism. Italy is nothing worse and nothing better than any other country in that matter. But I think the issue is not THAT he points these things out rather than HOW. To some people it might sound quite harsh. Then they feel offended, which is normal.
Yes trueI think Sweden and and Spain are trying to compete for the leadRuby and Bullcat your decent enough people and I love and respect you, but why are you telling Ron to go back to the Hebrew forum. I happen to enjoy Ron here and he is not Anti Christian or Anti American. Remember Ron is being attacked by everyone, all over the internet and he is defending himself. Maybe he says things he doesn't mean but on most issues he is right. There is allot of Anti Semitism in Italy and all over Europe including Ireland. Does that mean all Italians and Irish hate The Jews? Ron is just pointing out the evils that exist there and has a right to do so as any righteous person does.He doesn't give a damn what happens to JTF in America. I think he wants America to go to hell.
So now I exist, Ruby? I surely don't care if you go to hell, but I love Americans such as Dan Ben Noah.
I wish you would go back to the Hebrew forum.
It is true that ALL European countries - every single one - has it's portion of anti-Semitism. Italy is nothing worse and nothing better than any other country in that matter. But I think the issue is not THAT he points these things out rather than HOW. To some people it might sound quite harsh. Then they feel offended, which is normal.
I think there are no leaders. But there are countries whose government seem to be more anti-Israel than others. Mostly the leftist governments. So Spain and Sweden are surely competing as most anti-Israel countries.
A while back he sent me a very hateful message in private which I shared with the admins and that's why I have avoided talking with him for a while now.
He made fun of Jesus' name. How would you feel if I made fun of the name of Maimonides or the Lubavitcher Rebbe? I wouldn't want to do that anyway. Would you be more upset with me if I did that than you are about what Ron said? I bet you would.
I wasn't offend by how he said Jesus and yes i'm a Christian too
QuoteHe made fun of Jesus' name. How would you feel if I made fun of the name of Maimonides or the Lubavitcher Rebbe? I wouldn't want to do that anyway. Would you be more upset with me if I did that than you are about what Ron said? I bet you would.
Jews are forbbiden to use the name of Jesus. If you hate Judaism, go ahead.
Oh really? And no I don't hate Jews or Judaism.
Oh really? And no I don't hate Jews or Judaism.
Then what's your problem with this Halacha?
you need to stop this fight both of you.this is just ruining the thread.
I was offended by that statement too.I wasn't offend by how he said Jesus and yes i'm a Christian too
So are you offended by the fact that Ron has stated that if you're not anti-Semitic then you're not a real Christian? I do take offense to that and I don't want to patch it up with him as long as he's going to continue to be hateful toward Christians. He has stated in the past that he believes that Jews should only work with Noahides, and even that within limits. So as a Christian I by default can not work with him.QuoteQuoteHe made fun of Jesus' name. How would you feel if I made fun of the name of Maimonides or the Lubavitcher Rebbe? I wouldn't want to do that anyway. Would you be more upset with me if I did that than you are about what Ron said? I bet you would.
Jews are forbbiden to use the name of Jesus. If you hate Judaism, go ahead.
Oh really? And no I don't hate Jews or Judaism.
Well, I was offended here also. Not so long ago, I was called a leftist, a communists, a Kike, self-hating and whatsoever. I do not even remember who it was!Good Post. Btw I don't hate you.
But I am not here to please everyone or to agree in every single word with everyone, this is impossible. In fact, I think that maybe most people actually dislike me here. But I am not here to be liked. I am here because ths organisation has good goal and a good position. The ideology of JTF is what keeps me here and it depends on loyalty of it's members. I will stay loyal to JTF which is much more important to me than some people who offend me. I leave them aside and ignore them. The best you can do to not get an endless discussion that gets every time more filled with anger and hatred. This harms JTF and it's fundaments. And we should strengthen it...
Exactly right.you need to stop this fight both of you.this is just ruining the thread.
People reading this forum need to know that Christians aren't just punching bags that keep coming back for more with smiles on their faces. People have been very patient with Ron and others attacks and I personally have tried to ignore it but sometimes it just crosses the line.
Bottom line is this. If you disagree with working with Christians you shouldn't be on the English forum. If he's going to insult our members by making fun of Jesus, etc. then why is he here? To tolerate that kind of behavior sends an implicit message that it's acceptable and within the rules. It's not acceptable to me even if it's acceptable to IZ or Muman or others who don't care if Christian faith is dragged through the mud.
It's an easy out to lock the thread.Then what do you propose we should do?
The problem will still persist.
This will rot JTF from the inside out.