JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lubab on July 21, 2010, 05:43:23 PM
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It's pretty simple. I feel my views have veered from the JTF line in many respects. In what way?
Think of my world view as something more closely aligned with the views espouses by Nikmatam (minus the obsession with the Vatican).
(Parenthetically...I feel JTF's views also veered a bit from mine as I feel the JTF of 5 years ago focused more on some of these issues I care about e.g. Multi-national corps as the prime enemy, the push towards Global Government, Skull and Bones etc. there actually used to be a section on this forum called "Stop The New World Order")
So my decision until now as been to stay quiet rather than cause internal strife "there is nothing more healthy for the body than silence" say our sages.
Then I thought just recently I should at least post on Torah topics.
Well I'd like to know what YOU think?
Should I:
1. Resign as a moderator and quit the forum?
2. Only post on Torah topics?
3. Or post on all topics recognizing full well the passionate arguments that will ensue.
4. Something else?
Lubab
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Why do you feel that JTF stopped caring about multinational corporations?
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Ive always liked you, I like what you say and enjoy your debate, I certainly MISS Nik a LOT.
Maybe just do what I have been doing; only post on things that will not anger you? Ignore the folks you dont really want to talk to, and sure, I LOVE your Torah.
Shalom, good to see you. : )
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I do not think that JTF should become an Illuminati, Vatican, NWO, or any other kind of conspiracy site... There are many other places to go for that kind of wickedness. I hope that JTF does not endorse such wackyness because it is a real waste of time and attracts some of the dregs of society. Nik really tested the boundries of sanity, IMO, and he certainly deserved being banned from JTF. He was warned many times, reinstated, and yet persisted in posting things which were rambling rants without a trace of sense. Im sorry if you like that kind of post, but reading his writing made me sick.
If we stick to the issues which relate to Jews, Judaism, and the establishment of a Kahanist government I think JTF can be successful, but I will not come to JTF to read the latest tin-hat conspiracy theories..
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You guys, I met Lubab and his lovely wife in person a while back. Before meeting him, I assumed he was an older man at least in his 50's, since his posts were so intelligent. Also, when I think of rabbis, the image of an old man with a gray beard automatically comes to mind. So I was shocked to meet a young man in his mid-20's. He's just as smart in person, as he's been on the forum.
As for what you should do, I would focus on the areas in which you agree with JTF. I believe you and Chaim are in agreement about the New World Order. As for 9/11 conspiracy theories, Chaim has stated he's adamantly against them. Why not just post on Torah subjects or what's going on in Israel? You don't have to agree 100% with Chaim or with other members.
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I do not think that JTF should become an Illuminati, Vatican, NWO, or any other kind of conspiracy site... There are many other places to go for that kind of wickedness. I hope that JTF does not endorse such wackyness because it is a real waste of time and attracts some of the dregs of society. Nik really tested the boundries of sanity, IMO, and he certainly deserved being banned from JTF. He was warned many times, reinstated, and yet persisted in posting things which were rambling rants without a trace of sense. Im sorry if you like that kind of post, but reading his writing made me sick.
If we stick to the issues which relate to Jews, Judaism, and the establishment of a Kahanist government I think JTF can be successful, but I will not come to JTF to read the latest tin-hat conspiracy theories..
Even though conspiracy theories are fun to listen to, though I agree with you Muman since a lot of that stuff is just bogus and embarrassing.
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Option #3 is by far the best. We want debate and only nazis get banned. I have a feeling that if you start to talk about the 9-11 stuff that you will be asked to give up your moderator position, but I do not think a title means much in the grand view of life.
Debate generates more life on the forum and more life on the forum generates more members and more members generate more donations and more donations generate a better world.
Bring on the debate!
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Lubab,
I have often seen your name under the heading of moderator, but have wondered who you were. I think you should stay. if you were once a moderator, then people thought your contributions worthy and your judgement sound. If you don't agree with something, then you should say it. Your voice matters.
Are there any 911 theories that dont blame Jews? The ones that blame GW Bush?
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Hi Lubab, long time no see :) I always like to see old time members who have been less active checking in... It's true the issues here on the forum are somewhat different then when we started out way back when...In some ways I am like you and miss the old format and issues we use to post about... Back then we handled a lot more American political issues and problems facing Americans.... We still have coverage on issues like that however the focus is now more on Israel... Nothing prevents posting on the old style issues its just the main interest now days runs in the new direction....Chaim sets the tone most weeks with his Ask JTF show introduction and the threads work out from there...I personally was one of the old members who bucked the tin-hat conspiracy threads... When the conspiracy starts getting into every large corporation in the world it just gets to hard to take for real.... We are now facing something that is not good at the hands of the shvartza Administration in Washington. Even with this I still feel it more the work of a small group of powerful ultra liberals and not the handy work of the Illuminati. You should return to JTF and post as you see fit... Your religious background is always an asset to have around... I think some of the milder conspiracy theories are now more acceptable for debate however in no way would I want to relive the last days of Nikmatam here on the forum.
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Option #3 is by far the best. We want debate and only nazis get banned. I have a feeling that if you start to talk about the 9-11 stuff that you will be asked to give up your moderator position, but I do not think a title means much in the grand view of life.
Debate generates more life on the forum and more life on the forum generates more members and more members generate more donations and more donations generate a better world.
Bring on the debate!
Thanks Lisa and Ashe Dina for the very kind words.
Baltimore...that's really gives me a 5th option. Remove myself as moderator...and THEN talk about anything I want. I'd rather quit than be "fired". I have posted my doubts about the 9-11 official story before and I realize that puts Chaim in a very difficult spot. The whole thing makes me uncomfortable.
ChaimFan: Let's just say I don't feel the financial crimes by these mult-national banks and hedge funds are getting near the attention they deserve. I believe we have witnesses some of the greatest financial crimes in history. And I don't believe even an ASKJTF monlogue has been dedicated to the topic. Correct me if I'm wrong. But I checked in when a lot of this stuff was going down and the focus was elsewhere.
While those topics were important I really felt JTF became somewhat blind to some of the most vital issues facing the world right now.
I don't want to make JTF look bad though, that's for sure.
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He holds back.
He used to say the n199er word outright.
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Lubab,
I have often seen your name under the heading of moderator, but have wondered who you were. I think you should stay. if you were once a moderator, then people thought your contributions worthy and your judgement sound. If you don't agree with something, then you should say it. Your voice matters.
Are there any 911 theories that dont blame Jews? The ones that blame GW Bush?
Thanks for that...
I certainly do not blame Jews for it. And I don't require a large group to hold my opinion in order for me to espouse it. I can pick out bits of truth wherever I find it.
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Hi Lubab,
Now I understand your concern more clearly. Yes, this kind of statement can lend itself to movements that blame Jews for any and everything. I'm not sure why you think the Mossad knew anything when presumably our gov't knew nothing. Being completely truthful, I am not sure how many of us want to relive 911 or theories that seem to blame innocent people and still surface on the net. That said, if your statements are true and your logic fair, then I think you should not hold back.
I also don't think you need to reliquish your moderator position. Your ability to be fair and just has been proven. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Based on what Lisa and others wrote, I would look forward to getting to know you and to hear what your thoughts are on many issues
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Hey if you guys need an orthodox guy in his 20's to replace Lubab as a mod, I know someone ;D
I never knew you, but you sound nice. Actually I think we have a lot in common just from reading this thread, although I follow the Shulchan Aruch and R' Moshe, but I have tremendous kavod for Chabad.
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Lubab I also have an interest in those types of topics but I've felt as if I shouldn't post about them much because I don't want people to misunderstand me. Hanna helped give me information where I made a video warning that one version of Obama Care contained a phrase about a microchip/Verichip.
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Hey if you guys need an orthodox guy in his 20's to replace Lubab as a mod, I know someone ;D
I never knew you, but you sound nice. Actually I think we have a lot in common just from reading this thread, although I follow the Shulchan Aruch and R' Moshe, but I have tremendous kavod for Chabad.
We are not looking to replace Lubab.
Now in responce to the first most. I think you should stay as active here as possible with your shchedule because we need good Jews like you to help us post for us. You have a great mind and i think it could really help us.
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Hey, Lubab, do I owe you money? :'(
If so, get in line! :::D
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It's not the Jews... The Black Pope and the Jesuites are behind everything!
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2. Only post on Torah topics?
OR
3. Or post on all topics recognizing full well the passionate arguments that will ensue.
Well the choice is between Lubab and the forum member and management.
I was assuming him to be near 70 and so talking about conspiracies with full confidence. With everyone, the things have an opportunity to change or improve with time.
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It's not the Jews... The Black Pope and the Jesuites are behind everything!
Well, I believe I remember an expression Sammy Davis Jr. used from time to time in his shows " That black stuff is taking over the world" :laugh: It's to bad he didn't live to see America's first few black presidents :o...My eyes must be going however because the Pope looked white to me the last time I saw him on the TV... I guess he's had the Michael Jackson process... With all that ill gotten wealth stored in the bowls of old Vatican City anything is possible :::D
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Lubab, one of my favorites. Now its muman :P
I'm bound to read your Torah views and know I'm not being mislead. You. can post any opinion you want on anything else but make sure you are clear that it is just your point of you.
I like debate on the forum as long as it is respectable. Remember when we used to debate. If I couldn't break you I simply agreed to disagree.
Lubab I'm glad you're back with us. We need more righteous religious Torah news on our forum. While you are not perfect nor is anyone else its good to have a Jew with good intentions here. Just don't forget a big responsibility for you is not to mislead Jews astray.
As far as nik that was too much illogics on this forum and hurt the movement
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I don't agree with the idea to step down as moderator and then speak about *Anything. I don't believe you will be allowed to spout 9/11 tomfoolery on this forum. Even if you are (because of the new banning policy) it will greatly detract from the forum. These arguments have been hashed out elsewhere, (there are hundreds of sites devoted to this!) the 'proof is in the pudding' as the saying goes, and it will be a waste of time and resources and focus for JTF'ers to have to refute the stupidity of the truth-tard arguments if they begin plastering the forum again. It has no place on this forum. I think will turn off prospective members to see it being promoted here as well. Certainly if I thought that JTF was a Kahanist organization but ALSO promoted 9/11 Troof, I don't believe I would have joined or been interested.
I would encourage you to write about things NOT-9/11 conspiracy related.
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I don't agree with the idea to step down as moderator and then speak about *Anything. I don't believe you will be allowed to spout 9/11 tomfoolery on this forum. Even if you are (because of the new banning policy) it will greatly detract from the forum. These arguments have been hashed out elsewhere, (there are hundreds of sites devoted to this!) the 'proof is in the pudding' as the saying goes, and it will be a waste of time and resources and focus for JTF'ers to have to refute the stupidity of the truth-tard arguments if they begin plastering the forum again. It has no place on this forum. I think will turn off prospective members to see it being promoted here as well. Certainly if I thought that JTF was a Kahanist organization but ALSO promoted 9/11 Troof, I don't believe I would have joined or been interested.
I would encourage you to write about things NOT-9/11 conspiracy related.
Yes, I learned that the hard way.
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I also don't appreciate the way these types of "debates" are conducted. It's not usually an actual debate. One outlandish question is posed, and when facts, proof, and evidence are brought to answer or address the question, instead of fully examining the particular issue in question, or conceding a point, the response is usually something like "But what about X" with X being another unrelated outlandish question that according to the arguer "proves Bush did 9/11" etc. And so on. This type of correspondence shows that the person arguing has an apriori conviction about what happened and will pose whatever "questions" support that agenda, not really an openness to hearing the facts about what happened or arriving at serious plausible answers to the questions.
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Lubab has always been a fabulous debater. He is even nicer in person, and a handsome young strapping chap.
The Hebew forum fight like crazy and its great. Makes for fun.
I think that Nik should come back as well as Marzutra and also Scriabin & Josh. I miss these fellows funny arguments.
This is a Jewish forum, Most Catholics are not really Vatican friendly. On Christian Jewish friendly forums, they discuss things they dont like about Judaism, and the forum that I go to once in awhile stats go up and people join, b/c of the livliness.
If Lubab thinks that 9/11 had evil undertones, Lubab lives in America, where we are allowed FREE SPEECH, even speech we dont agree with.
Maybe you should all have a Category that says, THE EVIL IN THE OLIGARCHY, UP FOR SPECULATION.
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I think that Nik should come back as well as Marzutra and also Scriabin & Josh.
I agree with that statement.
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It's not the Jews... The Black Pope and the Jesuites are behind everything!
Well, I believe I remember an expression Sammy Davis Jr. used from time to time in his shows " That black stuff is taking over the world" :laugh: It's to bad he didn't live to see America's first few black presidents :o...My eyes must be going however because the Pope looked white to me the last time I saw him on the TV... I guess he's had the Michael Jackson process... With all that ill gotten wealth stored in the bowls of old Vatican City anything is possible :::D
The black pope is actually a white guy with blond/white hair. He's pretty big in the conspiracy world.
I thought sammy davis jr was a satanist like frank sinatra...
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Lubab has always been a fabulous debater. He is even nicer in person, and a handsome young strapping chap.
The Hebew forum fight like crazy and its great. Makes for fun.
I think that Nik should come back as well as Marzutra and also Scriabin & Josh. I miss these fellows funny arguments.
This is a Jewish forum, Most Catholics are not really Vatican friendly. On Christian Jewish friendly forums, they discuss things they dont like about Judaism, and the forum that I go to once in awhile stats go up and people join, b/c of the livliness.
If Lubab thinks that 9/11 had evil undertones, Lubab lives in America, where we are allowed FREE SPEECH, even speech we dont agree with.
Maybe you should all have a Category that says, THE EVIL IN THE OLIGARCHY, UP FOR SPECULATION.
This post misses the point.
Free speech allows the right to say something stupid and baseless, without a doubt. However, it may be detracting from our forum to allow certain stupid and baseless statements to be made here about the US govt supposedly carrying out 9/11 like the truth-tards claim. I assert that that does detract from the forum. Anyone is free to take up a bullhorn and say it from rooftops, make videos about it, and do whatever they want. And G-d knows there are many people doing exactly that. But let's leave their petty and irrational arguments off this particular forum. Not because it's allowed or disallowed by the constitution. For other reasons.
What do you mean exactly by "evil undertones?" Is that a codeword to excuse irrational accusations that George W. Bush carried out 9/11 and framed up a bunch of innocent Saudi muslims? Because those are the type of baseless and dishonest accusations that I do NOT think should be propagated here.
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Seems like good loyal Israeli Jews are forbidden to speak their minds about Israeli officials, and the only organization which represents good loyal Jews in the U.S.A. forbids Jews to speak their minds about their officials here.
Strikes me as the heart of hypocrisy, especially considering that the Leftists in Israel denounce Chaim as a "conspiracy lunatic" "right-wing extremist" who is so insane that he actually believes there is both a Shabak conspiracy against the nationalist and religious Jews of Israel as well as an internationalist conspiracy to create a terror state inside Eretz Yisrael.
The Israeli Left claims this is all the proof they need to ban Chaim from stepping foot on Israeli soil.
And by the way, they also denounced and treated Rabbi Meir Kahane in this fashion.
I have no use for lunatic rantings without substance, regardless of the source.
But that being said, facts are facts, and when people are able to show documentation and sworn testimony to back up their allegations, I am always willing to look, listen, and consider the possibilities.
How in the world can we on this forum denounce American Jewish politicians, American Jewish self-appointed "spokespersons", American Jewish attorneys, and hundreds of other Jews, constantly accusing them [and correctly so] of being part of a huge cabal conspiracy with George Soros, the Globalists, Obama, and others, and then say that "discussion of the unanswered questions surrounding the events of 9/11 is forbidden because such talk might implicate one or more Jews as being guilty of a crime?
I reiterate my position: "Strikes me as the heart of hypocrisy...".
In the U.S.A. only individuals are prosecuted and tried for crimes -- we don't try and prosecute entire ethnicities or races simply because a handful might be involved in criminal activity.
I say members should feel free to speak their minds openly, providing that they can properly document any allegations made against others, and let the chips fall where they may.
To do otherwise gives the appearance of impropriety: as if some individual or group has something to hide.
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"discussion of the unanswered questions surrounding the events of 9/11 is forbidden because such talk might implicate one or more Jews as being guilty of a crime?
Nobody said this. This argument is irrelevant. Was that some kind of Freudian slip on your part? It has absolutely no relation to anything I've said here.
Questions, which have been answered, but some people do not like the answers because of their a priori convictions, can hardly be called "Unanswered" questions.
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9/11 Troof is something insane, dishonest, deceptive, irrational, and disproved by science and other empirical data. It makes us look like morons to promote it on this site, plain and simple. It is similar to when ben M the nazi promoted white supremacism and nazism on the site until he was finally banned. If people mistake his views for those of JTF, it makes JTF look like a joke.
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The burden of proof for 9/11 is that it was caused by a bunch of pissed off Muslims. There is nothing else out there to prove anyone else was behind it.
Nuff said. Kwbrt is right like he is a lot of the time. I would give him the title of someone smart and logical on this forum
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Codeword? What are you talking about? And Bush? he was TERRIBLE.
I already KNOW who did 9/11. I dont care WHO talks what, I cannot be convinced of it being someone else, BUT Moslems.
They ARE Oligarchs that are in charge, rich oligarchs in EVERY single govt, you cannot deny this.
Do what you all want, I dont care, I fight for free speech, even if it sucks.
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He said the very same thing I said... That this is not the place for conspiracy theories..
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,48082.msg457957.html#msg457957
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I have no reason to doubt that Muslims were responsible for 9/11. I believe it was definitely an act of Islamic terrorism. However there are a lot of other issues that I find to be interesting connected to corrupt corporate power, new world order stuff.
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Well, then we are in good company, Obama wants any and all "Conspiracy Theories" OFF the net, so, Obama is OUR Prez!
Sorry, there are some things that are true, and people CALL it "conspiracy"
For ie: There were TWO shooters at FT HOOD, I covered it. I had a high military ranking man give me the 3 sites, and EYEWITNESS accounts that showed me there were TWO shooters, and there were TWO, but the MSM covered the story.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, Conspiracy!
Well, Some people focus on that stuff, and dabble. Ludab is not a self-hating Jew and def does NOT blame Jews for 9/11, if that is what everyone is REALLY getting at.
Well, its all up to you, but I just dont post on those issues, so they dont bother me, Chaim will make the choice, however, I will respect it, but if it DOES come up, I will stand with Lubab, as I stood with Nik AND Lubab when this shook down last time and we LOST Kahanists.
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Codeword? What are you talking about? And Bush? he was TERRIBLE.
I already KNOW who did 9/11. I dont care WHO talks what, I cannot be convinced of it being someone else, BUT Moslems.
They ARE Oligarchs that are in charge, rich oligarchs in EVERY single govt, you cannot deny this.
Do what you all want, I dont care, I fight for free speech, even if it sucks.
Aishdina, let us please be clear about this.
When you support Lubab's intention to drop moderator status in order to speak "freely and openly" about 9/11, You are arguing for his "right" to promote 9/11 conspiracy theory on this site, which includes exonerating the Muslim animals who did it and accusing Bush as a govt conspiracy instead.
Yet, the way you phrase your statements, it is as if you think I am against people criticizing evil in the "govt oligarchy." But I am not against that, nor have I said anything indicating I would be. People can feel free to criticize anything they want. What I think is damaging to the forum is when people promote the dishonest theories about 9/11 that claim there was a US-Govt conspiracy to blow up the Towers and that Muslim terrorists had nothing to do with it. No matter how evil Bush was, of course he was bad, and I agree with you that he was 'terrible,' the facts do not support his having spearheaded a massive conspiracy to blow up the Trade towers.
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Well, then we are in good company, Obama wants any and all "Conspiracy Theories" OFF the net, so, Obama is OUR Prez!
Sorry, there are some things that are true, and people CALL it "conspiracy"
For ie: There were TWO shooters at FT HOOD, I covered it. I had a high military ranking man give me the 3 sites, and EYEWITNESS accounts that showed me there were TWO shooters, and there were TWO, but the MSM covered the story.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, Conspiracy!
If the facts support you in that, great. But the facts do not support the 9/11 Lies movement which tries to claim that Muslims did not do 9/11 and the American Govt did.
Well, Some people focus on that stuff, and dabble. Ludab is not a self-hating Jew and def does NOT blame Jews for 9/11, if that is what everyone is REALLY getting at.
I never thought that Lubab blamed Jews for it. I DID think that he blamed the US Govt for carrying it out, which is the 9/11 Truthtard position (although you're right that some Muslims and some extreme truthtards do claim the Mossad did 9/11). Just because something doesn't involve Jews, that makes it ok to promote a debunked and disproved falsehood? It makes our forum look like a joke whether Jews are involved in the so-called conspiracy or not. Whether asians, muslims, christians, irish, or japanese are involved, promoting the idea itself (that the US govt carried out 9/11 attacks in a massive still-SECRET conspiracy involving multiple agencies, fire dept, airlines, police dept, etc etc who were all complicit and involved) is what will make us look like a joke.
I'm sure Lubab is a good Jew and a nice person. That is not relevant to this subject. Many good and nice Jews can have a mistaken point of view on a given issue. If he thinks the US govt carried out 9/11, I'm sorry, but he's mistaken.
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I always thought the conspiracy theories were tiring. They are nearly always against Jews. I don't read even the posts when people talk about them here. Makes the JTF forum boring, just my opinion.
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Now, now, we all know it was the Joos who are responsible for 9/11 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Yeah, it was me and David Ben Moshe before we even knew each-other.
Jews are TOO BUSY defending themselves and attacking Jew haters.
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So let's get this straight now... Bush 1 and Bill Clinton were responsible for the first blast at the Trade Center.... Bush 2 oversaw the second attack. The shvartza President is responsible for the BP oil spill... Rumor has it he sent 4 or 5 of his black brothers out in a rowboat to take out the
jig...I mean rig.
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I disagree with the 911 Troofers, but Bush, as an individual, is practically family with the Saudis. His family's business dealings go back decades with the same group of people who funded 911. He allowed the Saudi royals to leave the US during a no-fly period and did not let law enforcement interrogate them despite the fact that the bulk of the 911 funding came from this camp of people. Plus Bush pushed the Saudi plan for Israel. However, I am inclined to leave Bush out of plotting or committing 911 itself.
(http://blog.c77c.net/photos/bushhhh_1.jpg)
"Best friends forever"
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Yes, there is a big difference between incompetence, missing the mark, and purposeful evil...
I believe several American presidents were irresponsible for not responding harsher to earlier outbreaks of Islamic terror...
Specifically Clinton when he knew that OBL was behind terrorist actions and he had the ability to capture him, but because he was too busy with the Lewinsky affair, was unable to capture OBL... Also during Reagan when the Lebanon Marine Barraks were attacked should have had a more explosive response... Virtually every president from Carter to Bush has a little bit of responsibility for not responding to the attacks, thus allowing the enemy to become even more brazen over time...
But this doesn't imply that they had anything to do with the planning or execution of the attacks. I believe that there was intelligence which we had which was not acted on. We know that there were many travel warnings that week. Also the blanket release of all Saudi nationals does not look good for Bush...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4540958/
As the 9/11 commission investigates what Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush might have done to prevent the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, one piece of evidence the commission will examine is a videotape secretly recorded by a CIA plane high above Afghanistan. The tape shows a man believed to Osama bin Laden walking at a known al-Qaida camp.
The question for the 9/11 commission: If the CIA was able to get that close to bin Laden before 9/11, why wasn’t he captured or killed? The videotape has remained secret until now.
Over the next three nights, NBC News will present this incredible spy footage and reveal some of the difficult questions it has raised for the 9/11 commission.
In 1993, the first World Trade Center bombing killed six people.
In 1998, the bombing of two U.S. embassies in Africa killed 224.
Both were the work of al-Qaida and bin Laden, who in 1998 declared holy war on America, making him arguably the most wanted man in the world.
In 1998, President Clinton announced, “We will use all the means at our disposal to bring those responsible to justice, no matter what or how long it takes.”
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/9/10/181819.shtml
On Tape, Clinton Admits Passing Up bin Laden Capture; Lewinsky Played Role
Bill Clinton denies it now, but he once admitted he passed up an opportunity to extradite Osama bin Laden.
And NewsMax has the former President making the claim on audiotape. [You can listen to the tape yourself] -- Click Here
Clinton's comments and his actions relating to American efforts to capture bin Laden have taken on renewed interest because of claims made in a new ABC movie, the "Path to 9/11," that suggests Clinton dropped the ball during his presidency. Clinton has also angrily denied claims the Monica Lewinsky scandal drew his attention away from dealing with national security matters like capturing bin Laden.
During a February 2002 speech, Clinton explained that he turned down an offer from Sudan for bin Laden's extradition to the U.S., saying, "At the time, 1996, he had committed no crime against America, so I did not bring him here because we had no basis on which to hold him."
But that wasn't exactly true. By 1996, the 9/11 mastermind had already been named as an unindicted co-conspirator in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing by prosecutors in New York.
...
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Whats with the Hashes? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_symbol
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ChaimFan: Let's just say I don't feel the financial crimes by these mult-national banks and hedge funds are getting near the attention they deserve. I believe we have witnesses some of the greatest financial crimes in history. And I don't believe even an ASKJTF monlogue has been dedicated to the topic. Correct me if I'm wrong. But I checked in when a lot of this stuff was going down and the focus was elsewhere.
Do you not remember over a year ago when Chaim royally ripped into AIG?