JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rubystars on September 07, 2010, 03:31:22 PM
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39032043/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/?GT1=43001
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Tell Petraeus that his traitorous policies are endangering the troops, not this righteous pastor burning that filthy, evil book.
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Would be nice to see the qurans return to ashes. Let them muslims become "enraged", as if they aren't already in a constant state of rage and pissed off.
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very interesting when the ground zero mosque comes up the liberals are busy with first amendment rights saying who cares if he supports Hamas but when some one wants to go against islam he has no rights lets see if the ACLU will defend this church burning the Quran
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I'm just worried about the environmental consequences of burning that much contaminated waste.
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I'm just worried about the environmental consequences of burning that much contaminated waste.
That's why they should do a "lets recycle the Quran into toilet paper day".
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michael savage once told a caller who suggested to give the terrorists in gitmo a Quran to wipe themselves that it would be a waste of taxpayer dollars to fix the sewer after it gets clogged by the way i cant see any other problem with it maybe we can hire some plumbers with all those stimulus money and create some more jobs
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I'm just worried about the environmental consequences of burning that much contaminated waste.
That's why they should do a "lets recycle the Quran into toilet paper day".
But the paper is already full of sht.
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michael savage once told a caller who suggested to give the terrorists in gitmo a Quran to wipe themselves that it would be a waste of taxpayer dollars to fix the sewer after it gets clogged by the way i cant see any other problem with it maybe we can hire some plumbers with all those stimulus money and create some more jobs
Obama would probably hire muslims for the phony temporary jobs he'd "create".
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You know what really bothers me about this argument. They are saying 'don't do it, because we will [censored] Muslims," NOT 'don't do it because it is morally wrong. The gov't expects us to kow-tow secondary to fear--this premise that we are weak is a bad message to send. I am not sure what the purpose of burning the Qu'ran will do except to say 'F you' to people for all of the wrong reasons. We should dislike someone for their actions, not the faith they are born into. I am not defending Islam, but if you're going to punch someone, pick your point, and pick it for the right reason--not for FEAR.
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@jtf enthusiast
Burning a koran doesn't hurt muslims.
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@jtf enthusiast
Burning a koran doesn't hurt muslims.
I think it does...just look at their reactions
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The miserable Hexagon isn't upset when the filthy rag heads burn the American flag... The way I see it it's more or less the same thing...The filthy sand [censored] will get over it eventually.
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I think that burning the quran is a great idea and I applaud this preacher for having the guts to do it so publicly and fearlessly.
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I think that burning the quran is a great idea and I applaud this preacher for having the guts to do it so publicly and fearlessly.
Yes... G-d bless the preacher for having the guts to take on something like this... I have sworn off air travel for a while and Florida is a bit of a drive from New York but I would honestly like to be there to toss on a few editions of the selected pulp fiction on to the fire ;D
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I think it's Hallachically forbidden to burn a Quran. The Quran has the Name A-llah written on it. No matter if Muslims really refer to G-d when they say A-llah or not. The simple fact that they claim to do is enough a reason not to burn it. Also, Arabic speaking Jews really say A-llah to refer to G-d sometimes.
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I think it's Hallachically forbidden to burn a Quran. The Quran has the Name A-llah written on it. No matter if Muslims really refer to G-d when they say Al-lah or not. The simple fact that they claim to do is enough a reason not to burn it. Also, Arabic speaking Jews really say A-llah to refer to G-d sometimes.
Really ??
I hope I am not going to offend anyone, but, to be honest, I find that utterly repulsive >:( >:(
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I think it's Hallachically forbidden to burn a Quran. The Quran has the Name A-llah written on it. No matter if Muslims really refer to G-d when they say Al-lah or not. The simple fact that they claim to do is enough a reason not to burn it. Also, Arabic speaking Jews really say A-llah to refer to G-d sometimes.
Really ??
I hope I am not going to offend anyone, but, to be honest, I find that utterly repulsive >:( >:(
In fact, all non-Hebrew words to refer to G-d have a pagan, or at least, non-Jewish origin.
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I think it's Hallachically forbidden to burn a Quran. The Quran has the Name A-llah written on it. No matter if Muslims really refer to G-d when they say Al-lah or not. The simple fact that they claim to do is enough a reason not to burn it. Also, Arabic speaking Jews really say A-llah to refer to G-d sometimes.
Really ??
I hope I am not going to offend anyone, but, to be honest, I find that utterly repulsive >:( >:(
In fact, all non-Hebrew words to refer to G-d have a pagan, or at least, non-Jewish origin.
Sure, but why can't Jews use a Hebrew word ?
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Sure, but why can't Jews use a Hebrew word ?
Sometimes, when speaking to Gentiles, Jews have no other alternative than using vernacular languages. Just see here, Jews and Gentiles alike use English words to refer to Hashe-m. If this forum were in Arabic, we would have no other word.
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Sure, but why can't Jews use a Hebrew word ?
Sometimes, when speaking to Gentiles, Jews have no other alternative than using vernacular languages. Just see here, Jews and Gentiles alike use English words to refer to Hashem. If this forum were in Arabic, we would have no other word.
I don't have a problem with using an English word. I have an issue with a Jew referring to G-d using the word used by people who view him as the son of apes and pigs and wish him dead, I have an issue with a Jew referring to G-d using the word that is the systematic signature of Muslim terror attacks.
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Sure, but why can't Jews use a Hebrew word ?
Sometimes, when speaking to Gentiles, Jews have no other alternative than using vernacular languages. Just see here, Jews and Gentiles alike use English words to refer to Hashem. If this forum were in Arabic, we would have no other word.
The Quran doesn't contain the Tetragrammaton nor any other of the holy names for God. I highly doubt your postulation that it is forbidden to burn and destroy the quran. I believe that even the Rambam's "Yad hachazaka / mishne Torah" was at one time put to the flames by Jews who feared it might cause them to neglect the study of the Talmud itself.
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Those few Jews of native Arabic language who say A-llah to refer to G-d started that tradition long ago when all Gentiles were equally anti-Semite. So it was the same to them to use an Arab word or any other language. Perhaps they don't say it now. But the simple fact that the word was used to refer to G-d and some Jews may still understand it, is a reason to think twice before burning a book with that Name.
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Sure, but why can't Jews use a Hebrew word ?
Sometimes, when speaking to Gentiles, Jews have no other alternative than using vernacular languages. Just see here, Jews and Gentiles alike use English words to refer to Hashem. If this forum were in Arabic, we would have no other word.
The Quran doesn't contain the Tetragrammaton nor any other of the holy names for G-d. I highly doubt your postulation that it is forbidden to burn and destroy the quran. I believe that even the Rambam's "Yad hachazaka / mishne Torah" was at one time put to the flames by Jews who feared it might cause them to neglect the study of the Talmud itself.
In fact, there is a more lenient opinion which says that only Shemot written in Hebrew are foirbidden to erase. But I don't see why holding by the most lenient opinion with no real need. Burning a Quran won't bring any worthy benefits as to risk commiting a sin. Anyway, if you think that insulting Muslims could bring a benefit, there are plenty of ways to enrage them without burning the Quran.
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Sure, but why can't Jews use a Hebrew word ?
Sometimes, when speaking to Gentiles, Jews have no other alternative than using vernacular languages. Just see here, Jews and Gentiles alike use English words to refer to Hashem. If this forum were in Arabic, we would have no other word.
The Quran doesn't contain the Tetragrammaton nor any other of the holy names for G-d. I highly doubt your postulation that it is forbidden to burn and destroy the quran. I believe that even the Rambam's "Yad hachazaka / mishne Torah" was at one time put to the flames by Jews who feared it might cause them to neglect the study of the Talmud itself.
In fact, there is a more lenient opinion which says that only Shemot written in Hebrew are foirbidden to erase. But I don't see why holding by the most lenient opinion with no real need. Burning a Quran won't bring any worthy benefits as to risk commiting a sin. Anyway, if you think that insulting Muslims could bring a benefit, there are plenty of ways to enrage them without burning the Quran.
Muslims don't need excuses to get enraged, they are always raging and pillaging like the Quran teaches them. Why don't the "moderate" muslims warn their fellow beastials not to enrage the west and the Jews as they decapitate western hostages or blow themselves up in buses, coffee shops, planes and tower and launch missiles on cities ?
My war is against Islam, and I think it must be rejected from the non muslim world like cancer, and eventually entirely eliminated.
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Zelhar, there are many ways to make war against Islam without needing to burn a book.
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Jews or Noahides aren't part of that protest as far as I know. I think it's a church holding the event, so who cares Raul?
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The Quran has the Name A-llah written on it.
So?
The simple fact that they claim to do is enough a reason not to burn it.
So maybe we shouldn't have burnt down the stages of the Caanites and others. Their book is a desecration of G-D's Name and their elimination is sanctification of it.
Also, Arabic speaking Jews really say A-llah to refer to G-d sometimes.
Yes but it is only because the Muslims forced them to do so it back in the Muslim Exile. Allah is NOT G-D's Name.
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Regarding the
Do not burn Qur'an the Muslims will f*ck us
The United States is doomed
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Hitlery is blaming the Jews for this.
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2010/09/07/sot.clinton.iftar.dinner.cnn
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Hitlery is blaming the Jews for this.
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2010/09/07/sot.clinton.iftar.dinner.cnn
La Jooz
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Recycle the ashes in to better mundane forms.
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@jtf enthusiast
Burning a koran doesn't hurt muslims.
I agree lines. But--we better be prepared for reprecutions
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How is she blaming the Jews? She just said something about people of all faiths condemning the koran burning.
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The very fact that muslims worldwide will react violently to this is just further proof of what islam really is: a religion that justifies violence and the killing of innocent people.
I am well aware that the history of Christianity is far from spotless. But in all cases I know of, when a christian cult went bad it resulted in ruin. In the case of islam, imo, violence is embedded in the religion itself.
That being said, I really don't think burning korans will help anything, but last time I checked the man has the right to do it, but that could change. I'm almost willing to bet that someone will call this a hate crime.
Then again, when I watch video of 9-11, I could easily shred a koran (with gloves on) and mix it with hog slop.
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Islam is not a religion.It is a political ideology.We should establish the burn the quran day as a national holiday.Especially at scholl so our young will know who are the enemy.
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This country needs the patriotism and backbone that it had in WW2. There should be cartoons and movies being made showing Muslims as villains, Muslims should be interred as internal enemies, no matter how many generations here, or deported. Calling someone a Muslim should automatically mean to everyone present that they're a very bad person and not to be trusted.
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I like the idea of a 'burn the Koran' day, but it would be better if it was 9/12 instead of 9/11. 9/11 should remain as a day of remembering and memorializing, and 9/12 could be a day of action.
Also, what about making this into a week? or a month? Koran burning awareness month. There could be specials on how to safely burn a Koran without inhaling the toxic Koranic fumes.
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This pure b.s by Petraeus. The terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan have always wanted to torture and kill as many American soldiers as possible. The result of the koran burning, if law enforcement allows it to happen, will be large, possibly violent, Muslim protests throughout cities all over the world with large Muslim populations.
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The poor Pastor's Church leader in Germany is kicking him out
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100908/pl_yblog_upshot/even-pastors-old-church-condemns-quran-burning
It's increasingly looking as though the only spiritual or political figure who will not denounce Florida pastor Terry Jones' plan to commemorate Sept. 11 by burning copies of the Quran is Jones himself. Wednesday brings the news that even the church Jones founded in Germany in the 1980s is condemning the upcoming Quran-burning at his small place of worship in Gainesville, Fla.
"We are surprised and shocked at the extreme radicalism being displayed [by Jones] right now on this issue," Stephan Baar of the Christian Community of Cologne told the Associated Press. The 60-member church kicked out Jones in 2008. Jones' estranged daughter says the eviction arose from her father's reported penchant for dipping into the church's till to pay his own expenses.
Jones' wish to burn hundreds of copies of the Islamic holy book has drawn a wide chorus of protests. Gen. David Petraeus said on Monday the action could hurt U.S. troops, while hundreds of Afghans protested in Kabul and burned Jones in effigy. The Gainesville Fire Department has denied Jones a permit for the event -- but the pastor says he plans to go ahead with it anyway.
Indeed, so many high-profile people have spoken out against the plan that they may now outnumber the fringe church's 50-member congregation, raising the question of whether the condemnations are magnifying the cause of a very small group of extremists.
Here's a partial list of people who have condemned the planned bonfire:
* "It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort," top commander in Afghanistan Gen. David Petraeus told the media. "It is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems.
* As "an act of patriotism," the media should not cover the burning, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said. She also said, "It's regrettable that a pastor in Gainesville, Florida, with a church of no more than 50 people can make this outrageous and distressful, disgraceful plan, and get the world's attentio
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i only support "burn quran followers day", rest all is useless.
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The media is treating this poor pastor as if he is Adolf Hitler reborn. The liberal media will probably end up being angrier about this than the muslims! :::D They are literally treating him as if he was Satan.
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http://www.doveworld.org/blog/ten-reasons-to-burn-a-koran
Ten Reasons to Burn a Koran
By Fran Ingram - Posted on 02 September 2010
On 9/11/10 we are burning Korans to raise awareness and warn. In a sense it is neither an act of love nor of hate. We see, as we state in the Ten Reasons below, that Islam is a danger. We are using this act to warn about the teaching and ideology of Islam, which we do hate as it is hateful. We do not hate any people, however. We love, as G-d loves, all the people in the world and we want them to come to a knowledge of the truth. To warn of danger and harm is a loving act. G-d is love and truth. If you know the truth it can set you free. The world is in bondage to the massive grip of the lies of Islam. These are:
One
The Koran teaches that Jesus Christ, the Crucified, Risen Son of G-d, King of Kings and Lord of Lords was NOT the Son of G-d, nor was he crucified (a well documented historical fact that ONLY Islam denies). This teaching removes the possibility of salvation and eternal life in heaven for all Islam's believers. They face eternal damnation in hell if they do not repent.
Two
The Koran does not have an eternal origin. It is not recorded in heaven. The Almighty G-d, Creator of the World, is NOT it's source. It is not holy. It's writings are human in origin, a concoction of old and new teachings. This has been stated and restated for centuries by scholars since Islam's beginnings, both Moslem and non-Moslem.
Three
The Koran's teaching includes Arabian idolatry, paganism, rites and rituals. These are demonic, an ongoing satanic stronghold under which Moslems and the world suffer.
Four
The earliest writings that are known to exist about the Prophet Mohammad were recorded 120 years after his death. All of the Islamic writings (the Koran and the Hadith, the biographies, the traditions and histories) are confused, contradictory and inconsistent. Maybe Mohammad never existed. We have no conclusive account about what he said or did. Yet Moslems follow the destructive teachings of Islam without question.
Five
Mohammad's life and message cannot be respected. The first Meccan period of his leadership seems to have been religiously motivated and a search for the truth. But in the second Medina period he was "corrupted by power and worldly ambitions." (Ibn Warraq) These are characteristics that G-d hates. They also led to political assassinations and massacres which continue to be carried out on a regular basis by his followers today.
Six
Islamic Law is totalitarian in nature. There is no separation of church and state. It is irrational. It is supposedly immutable and cannot be changed. It must be accepted without criticism. It has many similarities to Nazism, Communism and Fascism. It is not compatible with Western Civilization.
Seven
Islam is not compatible with democracy and human rights. The notion of a moral individual capable of making decisions and taking responsibility for them does not exist in Islam. The attitude towards women in Islam as inferior possessions of men has led to countless cases of mistreatment and abuse for which Moslem men receive little or no punishment, and in many cases are encouraged to commit such acts, and are even praised for them. This is a direct fruit of the teachings of the Koran.
Eight
A Muslim does not have the right to change his religion. Apostasy is punishable by death.
Nine
Deep in the Islamic teaching and culture is the irrational fear and loathing of the West.
Ten
Islam is a weapon of Arab imperialism and Islamic colonialism. Wherever Islam has or gains political power, Christians, Jews and all non-Moslems receive persecution, discrimination, are forced to convert. There are massacres and churches, synagogues, temples and other places of worship are destroyed.
From Acts 19 (Amplified)
18Many also of those who were now believers came making full confession and thoroughly exposing their [former deceptive and evil] practices.
19And many of those who had practiced curious, magical arts collected their books and [throwing them, book after book, on the pile] burned them in the sight of everybody. When they counted the value of them, they found it amounted to 50,000 pieces of silver (about $9,300).
20Thus the Word of the Lord [concerning the attainment through Christ of eternal salvation in the kingdom of G-d] grew and spread and intensified, prevailing mightily.
Like the Christians in Acts 19, we are publicly burning a book that is demonic. Many of our greatest supporters are ex-Moslems. They know these evils first hand. We are not, like the Nazis, stealing books, destroying properties or harming any people. We are not Nazis nor are we like Nazis. The Christians in Acts 19 did not go on from their scroll burning to harm anyone. They used the public burning as an opportunity, a demonstration to preach the truth. Only to preach and leave the decision of whether to follow the truth or not.
Do not forget POINT SIX. Islam (not us) is totalitarian in nature, like Nazism, Communism, and Fascism. This evil nature of Islam needs to be seen. Moslems around the world burn and kill on a regular basis, every week, properties and people. All you have to do is follow the news. The many death threats we are receiving, the warnings about terror attacks also prove our point. Do Christians make these threats when Bibles or churches are burned? No.
We have fallen asleep since 9/11/01 and have been hoodwinked by the growth of a (for now) non violent Islam. Shall we give in to threats, then, and allow Islam to grow in America unopposed? We at Dove World Outreach Center will not, even if it costs us our lives. For those who support us, we say thank you for standing with us in courage. For those who oppose us, we say wake up and do not give in to the fear and lies!
International Burn a Koran Day on Facebook
For more on Islam and the Burn a Koran Day, see our blog and leave comments here: http://islamisofthedevil.com/blog
Some more thoughts:
Are there other dangers and evils in the world? Of course. There are many we could and do address, but at this time we have a vision and a call to confront this great danger. Are there a lot of reasons NOT to do what we are doing? Yes, people have written and called with many reasons. I am sure the great men and women of faith in Hebrews 11 heard and thought of many reasons not to follow G-d’s word. But they followed G-d’s word.
“Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.” Hebrews 11:1
We are sure that the world needs to see this warning about the teachings of Islam at this time, in this way. We are certain of G-d’s plan for us here and now.
For those that argue that we are not qualified to make the assertions about Islam that we do, this is ridiculous. We know what the Bible says about evil and the devil’s work and plans. Islam and the Koran clearly discredits itself. What we say about Islam has been said by many others. We may be the only organization burning Korans, but we are not alone in stating the Ten Reasons why the Koran is dangerous.
We follow the work of many men and women of courage who are also putting their lives at risk to expose the evils of Islam. Islam simply hates public criticism, whether your burn Korans or not. Some are ex-Moslems, now Christian: Walid Shoebat, Nonie Darwish, Mosab Hassan Yousef, Nabil Quereshi, Simon Deng. Other ex-Moslems are: Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan, Ibn Warraq, Brigitte Gabriel. Then there are many Christians, Jews and atheists writing, speaking and publishing on websites: Geert Wilders, Mark Steyn, Norman Podhoretz, Chris Logan, David Wood, Robert Spencer, Pamella Geller, Bill Warner, David Horowitz, Daniel Greenfield, thereligionofpeace.com, Creeping Sharia, Answering Islam, Acts 17 Apologetics, and many more.
5 MORE
http://www.doveworld.org/blog/5-more-reasons-to-burn-the-koran
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Raul, some people consider satan (the devil) to be G-d and worship him as such. Look up Theistic Satanism--it is a real monotheistic religion. Does this mean that the name of satan is holy?
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Five points Jones makes are even worse than Islam itself.
1- Jews also reject Jesus, so will he also try to burn the Talmud on the basis that non-Christian books condemn people to hell? Chas Veshalom!
2-According to Christians (and many other religions) the Oral Law is also man made. Again what's next?
3- Koran has Arabian idol worship? Probably. But again, some Christians (also some non- Rabbinical Jews like Karaim, and Tzadokim in the past) held that the Oral Law and Jewish rituals not stated in the Written Torah are pagan.
4- Koran has contradictions? Obviously. But that does not concern us. What must really concern us is that it teaches violence against us. If we start burning books just for finding them inaccurate, noone is safe.
6- Koran is dangerous just because it's believed to be immutable? Then what is he going to do with the Torah? (and his own Bible)
Reading his arguments, I see that this right wing intolerant is as dangerous as Muslim terrorists!
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Five points Jones makes are even worse than Islam itself.
1- Jews also reject Jesus, so will he also try to burn the Talmud on the basis that non-Christian books condemn people to hell? Chas Veshalom!
2-According to Christians (and many other religions) the Oral Law is also man made. Again what's next?
3- Koran has Arabian idol worship? Probably. But again, some Christians (also some non- Rabbinical Jews like Karaim, and Tzadokim in the past) held that the Oral Law and Jewish rituals not stated in the Written Torah are pagan.
4- Koran has contradictions? Obviously. But that does not concern us. What must really concern us is that it teaches violence against us. If we start burning books just for finding them inaccurate, noone is safe.
6- Koran is dangerous just because it's believed to be immutable? Then what is he going to do with the Torah? (and his own Bible)
Reading his arguments, I see that this right wing intolerant is as dangerous as Muslim terrorists!
Raul, you have the right to say what you are saying, just like the left has the right to condemn this. I also have the right to say that you're crazy.
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Five points Jones makes are even worse than Islam itself.
1- Jews also reject Jesus, so will he also try to burn the Talmud on the basis that non-Christian books condemn people to hell? Chas Veshalom!
2-According to Christians (and many other religions) the Oral Law is also man made. Again what's next?
3- Koran has Arabian idol worship? Probably. But again, some Christians (also some non- Rabbinical Jews like Karaim, and Tzadokim in the past) held that the Oral Law and Jewish rituals not stated in the Written Torah are pagan.
4- Koran has contradictions? Obviously. But that does not concern us. What must really concern us is that it teaches violence against us. If we start burning books just for finding them inaccurate, noone is safe.
6- Koran is dangerous just because it's believed to be immutable? Then what is he going to do with the Torah? (and his own Bible)
Reading his arguments, I see that this right wing intolerant is as dangerous as Muslim terrorists!
Raul, you have the right to say what you are saying, just like the left has the right to condemn this. I also have the right to say that you're crazy.
Are you Jewish? Don't you realise that, if he is saying that Koran must be burnt because it does not acknowledge Jesus, he is implying the same about the Talmud? It reminds me of Inquisition burning Jewish books! Judging by what he says, he is not burning the Koran for enticing to violence but just for not agreeing with his beliefs.
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Are you Jewish? Don't you realise that, if he is saying that Koran must be burnt because it does not acknowledge Jesus, he is implying the same about the Talmud? It reminds me of Inquisition burning Jewish books! Judging by what he says, he is not burning the Koran for enticing to violence but just for not agreeing with his beliefs.
Where did he say that Jewish scripture deserves to be burned? He did not say that. You are imagining that he believes that in order to advance your crazy argument.
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One
The Koran teaches that Jesus Christ, the Crucified, Risen Son of G-d, King of Kings and Lord of Lords was NOT the Son of G-d, nor was he crucified (a well documented historical fact that ONLY Islam denies). This teaching removes the possibility of salvation and eternal life in heaven for all Islam's believers. They face eternal damnation in hell if they do not repent.
Just re-read his point. As a Noahide, and also as a supporter of freedom, that words sound quite offensive to me.
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Hitlery is blaming the Jews for this.
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2010/09/07/sot.clinton.iftar.dinner.cnn
Actually, I think she is forcing them to consider their own Jew hatred by drawing the analogy
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I would like pastor to ask media how come they were silent when Albanians burned 150 Serbian churches in just 3 days in Kosovo? Now this pastor wants to burn few books and all this concern about muslims being angry?
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I would like pastor to ask media how come they were silent when Albanians burned 150 Serbian churches in just 3 days in Kosovo? Now this pastor wants to burn few books and all this concern about muslims being angry?
THAT IS AN EXCELLENT POINT. This kind of a question would be very helpful and reasonable, and would be far more useful.
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I would like pastor to ask media how come they were silent when Albanians burned 150 Serbian churches in just 3 days in Kosovo? Now this pastor wants to burn few books and all this concern about muslims being angry?
THAT IS AN EXCELLENT POINT. This kind of a question would be very helpful and reasonable, and would be far more useful.
I just sent an email to heroic pastor asking him to point out this question next time they attack him!!
Here, here is a link with just some pictures and histories of those monasteries and churches. Be careful, pictures are shocking:
http://www.rastko.rs/kosovo/crucified/default.htm