So long as there is no missionary activity. I hesitate to invite any non-Jewish religious figures to JTF because they may take advantage and try to proselytize.
I have never watched this pastor for just this reason. Also Jews should never rely on non-Jews for the redemption of the Jewish people.... Never ever..
So long as there is no missionary activity. I hesitate to invite any non-Jewish religious figures to JTF because they may take advantage and try to proselytize.
I have never watched this pastor for just this reason. Also Jews should never rely on non-Jews for the redemption of the Jewish people.... Never ever..
So long as there is no missionary activity. I hesitate to invite any non-Jewish religious figures to JTF because they may take advantage and try to proselytize.
I have never watched this pastor for just this reason. Also Jews should never rely on non-Jews for the redemption of the Jewish people.... Never ever..
Admit it you dont' want ANY Christian on this board because you think like Ron does that Christians are as bad as Muslims and the the NT is like Mein Kampf. You're just a little more diplomatic about it than he is.
It's only the Christian evangelicals in America which have kept the antisemitic leadership of the USA somwhat in check.
So long as there is no missionary activity. I hesitate to invite any non-Jewish religious figures to JTF because they may take advantage and try to proselytize.
I simply want to preserve the Jewish people and our sages made it clear that once Jews start to work with non-Jews it leads to assimilation.
I simply want to preserve the Jewish people and our sages made it clear that once Jews start to work with non-Jews it leads to assimilation.
Oh, really? Where did the sages say that?
I await the citation because I've never heard this.
I do not appreciate being called a Christian hater. I do not hate... I simply want to preserve the Jewish people and our sages made it clear that once Jews start to work with non-Jews it leads to assimilation. Unfortunately, as I have explained so many times, my family has been virtually decimated due to the assimilation which has occurred only within three generations of being in America.You just don't get it, do you.
I do not hate non-Jews. I just know that Christians have a knack for trying to proselytize. One Shabbat during my morning davening some Christian missionaries came and tried to discuss their savior with me. Of course I had none of that and explained that it was Shabbat and I intended to worship G-d and not their savior.
I apologize if people perceive this as hatred, it certainly is not intended as such.
I do not appreciate being called a Christian hater. I do not hate... I simply want to preserve the Jewish people and our sages made it clear that once Jews start to work with non-Jews it leads to assimilation. Unfortunately, as I have explained so many times, my family has been virtually decimated due to the assimilation which has occurred only within three generations of being in America.You just don't get it, do you.
I do not hate non-Jews. I just know that Christians have a knack for trying to proselytize. One Shabbat during my morning davening some Christian missionaries came and tried to discuss their savior with me. Of course I had none of that and explained that it was Shabbat and I intended to worship G-d and not their savior.
I apologize if people perceive this as hatred, it certainly is not intended as such.
I simply want to preserve the Jewish people and our sages made it clear that once Jews start to work with non-Jews it leads to assimilation.
Oh, really? Where did the sages say that?
I await the citation because I've never heard this.
I'm sorry Chai, it's not your fault, but I think this thread needs to get moved to the Hon Winged Members section.
I do not appreciate being called a Christian hater. I do not hate... I simply want to preserve the Jewish people and our sages made it clear that once Jews start to work with non-Jews it leads to assimilation.
I do not hate non-Jews. I just know that Christians have a knack for trying to proselytize.
One Shabbat during my morning davening some Christian missionaries came and tried to discuss their savior with me. Of course I had none of that and explained that it was Shabbat and I intended to worship G-d and not their savior.
I apologize if people perceive this as hatred, it certainly is not intended as such.
I do not appreciate being called a Christian hater. I do not hate... I simply want to preserve the Jewish people and our sages made it clear that once Jews start to work with non-Jews it leads to assimilation.
Well considering how many non-Jews are on this board do you consider your soul in great danger every time you come here?QuoteI do not hate non-Jews. I just know that Christians have a knack for trying to proselytize.
I've seen some Jews aggressively proselytize too. Oh they would deny till they're blue in the face, because they say they don't proselytize Judaism, but they proselytize Judaism light, aka Noahidism, and some preach that Gentiles will go to hell if they don't follow it. I really don't see much difference there in the potential risk for conversion. I mean if you tell someone their religion is wrong day after day then eventually it might do the same amount of damage that actively proselytizing them would do. Mostly I've seen this on Pal Talk but I've seen it some here too.QuoteOne Shabbat during my morning davening some Christian missionaries came and tried to discuss their savior with me. Of course I had none of that and explained that it was Shabbat and I intended to worship G-d and not their savior.
I apologize if people perceive this as hatred, it certainly is not intended as such.
Hopefully after that they left you in peace
Gee whiz this was one passing suggestion that is never likely to take place... do the usual Christian-haters absolutely need to take advantage of it?
I would rather burn in hell for eternity than to obey a cruel G-d like the one they described to you.
I am very interested in the issue of aggressive Jewish proselytizing and their threats of gentiles going to hell for not converting, what organization does such a thing ? Where do I find them?
The beauty of the Jewish religion is that it gives us free will , because it does not threaten people with telling them they will go to hell, to do so would be a form of mental rape.
G-d would never put a gun to your head and say obey the 613 commandments or die! (or even the 7 Jewish light as you say) If you look in the Bible, even after the worst sins ,G-d never uttered the threat of hell , he did however give the thereat of exile , punishment ..but never eternal hell for such things. Even with Adam, G-d was like you will die (not burn in hell) and even then did not kill him. The G-d of Israel is merciful to all , and it does not matter what you call him, just don't hurt people.
Also to me, Christians are Noahids that are just alitte over eager for redemption (no big deal). Remember most societies are very Noahidish as it is not acceptable to murder , eat the live limb of an animal just courts belief in a higher power etc. Yet don't keep the 613 commandments .. that sounds like Noahidism to me.
BTW , a non Jewish soul can easily be more pure then a Jewish one. The reason for this is since Jews have more commandments, they will surely make errors, these errors corrupt our soul (such as eating non kosher). Jews believe Gentiles are made in Gods image (Adam). Your soul Ruby Stars I am sure is more pure then mine. That is why it is a moot point for Non-Jews to convert, Unlike Islam that wants you to submit to them in every way.
I would love to Debate these people Its way to easy to prove them wrong. Where does it say you go to hell for not being Jewish or even religious for that matter.
There is no point in preaching Noahidisim because most people keep them with out even realizing it.
I am religious because I choose to of my own free will ,with the knowledge that even if I don't I wont burn for eternity. Thats the Judaism I know.
I would rather burn in hell for eternity than to obey a cruel G-d like the one they described to you.
I do not appreciate being called a Christian hater. I do not hate... I simply want to preserve the Jewish people and our sages made it clear that once Jews start to work with non-Jews it leads to assimilation. Unfortunately, as I have explained so many times, my family has been virtually decimated due to the assimilation which has occurred only within three generations of being in America.
I do not hate non-Jews. I just know that Christians have a knack for trying to proselytize. One Shabbat during my morning davening some Christian missionaries came and tried to discuss their savior with me. Of course I had none of that and explained that it was Shabbat and I intended to worship G-d and not their savior.
I apologize if people perceive this as hatred, it certainly is not intended as such.
I'll put it like this. When someone lumps all Christians in with these missionary street-corner freaks it's like lumping Jews in with the neturei karta scum.
While Neturei Karta's ideas are totally off base and have no base whatsoever in Judaism, Xtian scriptures clearly advocate mission and despise for those who did not accept the "Evangelium".Show me some verses in the New Testament that advocate or agree with the Crusades or what Martin Luther did, please.
Parasha Haazinu - Devarim 32:7-11
Remember the days of old; reflect upon the years of [other] generations. Ask your father, and he will tell you; your elders, and they will inform you.When the Most High gave nations their lot, when He separated the sons of man, He set up the boundaries of peoples according to the number of the children of Israel.Because the Lord's portion is His people Jacob, the lot of His inheritance.He found them in a desert land, and in a desolate, howling wasteland. He encompassed them and bestowed understanding upon them; He protected them as the pupil of His eye. As an eagle awakens its nest, hovering over its fledglings, it spreads its wings, taking them and carrying them on its pinions. [So] the Lord guided them alone, and there was no alien deity with Him.
While Neturei Karta's ideas are totally off base and have no base whatsoever in Judaism, Xtian scriptures clearly advocate mission and despise for those who did not accept the "Evangelium".Show me some verses in the New Testament that advocate or agree with the Crusades or what Martin Luther did, please.
I'd say Jews have done a better job destroying the souls of their own people than any non-Jewish people.
WHO IS THE PASTORwhich Pastor
WHO IS THE PASTORwhich Pastor
I'll put it like this. When someone lumps all Christians in with these missionary street-corner freaks it's like lumping Jews in with the neturei karta scum.
While Neturei Karta's ideas are totally off base and have no base whatsoever in Judaism, Xtian scriptures clearly advocate mission and despise for those who did not accept the "Evangelium".
WHO IS THE PASTORwhich Pastor
from the Qur'an burning
no where did you read thatWHO IS THE PASTORwhich Pastor
from the Qur'an burning
Is it true that this pastor also intended to burn Talmuds?
If so I cannot support him..
no where did you read thatWHO IS THE PASTORwhich Pastor
from the Qur'an burning
Is it true that this pastor also intended to burn Talmuds?
If so I cannot support him..
There is so much perverse, offensive and just plain wrong about a Gainesville pastor’s plans to burn Qurans and the Talmud to mark the anniversary of the Sept. 11th attacks I don’t know where to begin.
Burning the Koran and the Talmud in Florida
Michael Hoffman | www.RevisionistHistory.org
Few acts could be more counter-productive than book-burning.
Though medieval Catholics are stigmatized for burning the Babylonian Talmud, the burning of the New Testament in the Israeli state is almost never mentioned.
The Talmud is a book that actually calls for the burning of Christian books. This is a startling and obscure fact. Because Michael Hoffman has dug it up, Internet critics of Zionism and the ADL will not tell their readers about it in their e-mailings lest they publicize Hoffman's research. Better that their readers are kept ignorant. No wonder we're losing.
Red-nosed pastor Terry Jones, who plans to burn copies of the Koran and Jewish text the Talmud at the weekend, has either had his website hacked or his ISP has pulled the plug.. Jones is enjoying his 15 minutes of fame thanks to plans for an International Burn the Koran Day to mark the anniversary of 9/11. Jones also plans to burn copies of the Talmud..If I was Terry Jones, I would be hesitant to remind people of that chapter from Burning The Koran, Burning The Talmud; Meet Ahmed--The New Muslim Gargoyle On A French Ca.The center is run by Terry Jones, who can't seem to make up his mind whether he's in favor of burning copies of the Koran and Talmud or not. .
I give up :'( I have searched through all the best idol stores and have been unable to locate the prized "Jeebus" idol for my collection....Come out come out where ever you are Jeebus :::DI'd say Jews have done a better job destroying the souls of their own people than any non-Jewish people.
By not accepting Jeebus?
I'd say Jews have done a better job destroying the souls of their own people than any non-Jewish people.
By not accepting Jeebus?
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:I give up :'( I have searched through all the best idol stores and have been unable to locate the prized "Jeebus" idol for my collection....Come out come out where ever you are Jeebus :::DI'd say Jews have done a better job destroying the souls of their own people than any non-Jewish people.
By not accepting Jeebus?
I'd say Jews have done a better job destroying the souls of their own people than any non-Jewish people.
By not accepting Jeebus?
By the fact a majority of Israeli Jews are secular and Jews outside of Israel being overwhelmingly self-hating(re: leftist) and anti-zionist(not believing they should ever move to Israel) and also the fact millions of hasidim don't believe in the need to be in Israel. The majority of the world's Jews exist outside of the Jewish faith and have no idea what it means to be the chosen people of G-d.
Tell me what is the real difference between a Jew who doesn't observe any form of Judaism(a Jew in name only) and a Jew who converts to Christianity? Is believing in nothing worse than believing in Jesus?
I real think you're just an ignorant person who hates non-Jews.
I give up :'( I have searched through all the best idol stores and have been unable to locate the prized "Jeebus" idol for my collection....Come out come out where ever you are Jeebus :::DI'd say Jews have done a better job destroying the souls of their own people than any non-Jewish people.
By not accepting Jeebus?
By the fact a majority of Israeli Jews are secular and Jews outside of Israel being overwhelmingly self-hating(re: leftist) and anti-zionist(not believing they should ever move to Israel) and also the fact millions of hasidim don't believe in the need to be in Israel. The majority of the world's Jews exist outside of the Jewish faith and have no idea what it means to be the chosen people of G-d.
Tell me what is the real difference between a Jew who doesn't observe any form of Judaism(a Jew in name only) and a Jew who converts to Christianity? Is believing in nothing worse than believing in Jesus?
I real think you're just an ignorant person who hates non-Jews.
I give up :'( I have searched through all the best idol stores and have been unable to locate the prized "Jeebus" idol for my collection....Come out come out where ever you are Jeebus :::DI'd say Jews have done a better job destroying the souls of their own people than any non-Jewish people.
By not accepting Jeebus?
Christians do have a mission to preach the gospel, but Jesus never said to do it in the horrible ways in which it has been misinterpreted. It was never supposed to be an aggressive, manipulative, predatory type of thing. Jesus never said to kill people if they don't want to follow Him, Jesus never said to torture people for being "heretics". Jesus never said to do a lot of the things that people have done in His name. Jesus said G-d is Love. I think a lot of the more horrible stuff came out of Rome and Greece, later on, not the first Christians. I understand why you would be unhappy with even them and I respect the reasoning for it. I am not here to convert Jews, nor do I seek out Jews to convert anywhere. I am not an enemy of the Jewish people and I do not seek to destroy their ancient religion or traditions.
I think I understand why you hate Christians so much, and it's because most of your exposure to them have been the evil Arabs in Israel. While a few may be true Christians, I think most of them there have forgotten the teachings about love and live a life that's just as evil as their Muslim counterparts. They put a strong focus on certain Scriptures which could be interpreted by evil people to be against all Jews and they persecute G-d's people based on that. I have a completely different experience with Christianity, one that taught me to admire the Jews. I don't blame you for what you've been exposed to, but that's not all there is to Christians.
I would rather burn in hell for eternity than to obey a cruel G-d like the one they described to you.
Most of our Sages would have never defined a Xtian to be a Righteous Gentile except for Da'at Miut (minority opinion) of Rabbi Meiri.
Would you call them "cruel" just for disagreeing with their (majority) opinion?
Wow an entire aisle of them.....That could be tricky going down an aisle like that... A person could get to the end of the aisle a changed person... I could just picture all them little eyes looking at me now just thinking about it.... I have a feeling however your getting you idols confused... Or is it my idols... Now I am confused :::D...Anyway the Jeebus society has told me its not an official Jeebus unless the Jeebus logo is stamped on its tookis.... You know how them China knockoffs are you think your getting a Jeebus and get home and find you only have a common Jesus :o ...NOT GOOD... I never go into them dollar stores... I see people going in there coming out of there with all sorts of stuff they don't need and I am starting to see why :::D They may be getting a dollar store conversion :oI give up :'( I have searched through all the best idol stores and have been unable to locate the prized "Jeebus" idol for my collection....Come out come out where ever you are Jeebus :::DI'd say Jews have done a better job destroying the souls of their own people than any non-Jewish people.
By not accepting Jeebus?
Im sorry but you must not have looked too hard. At our local $1 store there is a whole aisle full of Jeebus statues and images... We never go to that store anymore..
And I myself have more than once been strongly rebuked by Chasidic Rabbis for criticizing or lecturing others about the 'misguided' beliefs they might hold, when my only concern should be for my own spiritual condition.
I would rather burn in hell for eternity than to obey a cruel G-d like the one they described to you.
Most of our Sages would have never defined a Xtian to be a Righteous Gentile except for Da'at Miut (minority opinion) of Rabbi Meiri.
Would you call them "cruel" just for disagreeing with their (majority) opinion?
I think Chai was referring to the threat of burning in hell as cruel.
True one of his names is Elokim, the name of strict justice, and it was with this name that he creates the Universe
The synagogue "services" we attend in 2010 have little if anything to do with Torah Judaism worship as it was practiced in Jerusalem at the Temple...
...Our synagogues today in the Western world are "businesses" which sell "memberships" to those in the Jewish communities able and willing to pay for the "good seats" during the Holidays.
...It should therefore come as no surprise that after two thousand years of such "community worship" our services as well as our Hebrew schools are teaching a very "watered down" version of Judaism and G-d which is "acceptable" to a modern technological and educated society - one which "doesn't make waves" with the political status quo - a Judaism where a Rabbi is forbidden to teach Torah which demands that Jews renounce "The Peace Process" and annihilate the Muslim enemies of the Jewish People.
In the modern Jewish synagogues, gone are the Curse and the Punishments offered at Sinai...
etc
Tell me what is the real difference between a Jew who doesn't observe any form of Judaism(a Jew in name only) and a Jew who converts to Christianity? Is believing in nothing worse than believing in Jesus?
True one of his names is Elokim, the name of strict justice, and it was with this name that he creates the Universe
Well actually, review that Rashi because in the end G-d did NOT create the world with strict justice. The world could not possibly endure that. The Kabbalah goes in depth about this, but no reason to dwell on it here, I just wanted to correct that part of what you said - It makes the point you were making an even stronger one.
בס''דThank you Chaim.
This has turned into another ugly thread.
First of all, if some of our members do not want to use the name "Jesus", they should use the Hebrew name "Yeshu". That is the name the Talmudic Rabbis use. "Jeebus" sounds insulting and so I ask our members not to use this term any more.
Secondly, I ask that there be no more divisive religious attacks that prevent Jews and Christians from working together against the Islamic threat.
Chaim I hope you don't think I've been ugly to people. I'm being honest and I want other people to be honest and not underhanded and sneaky.
One thing I give Ron a lot of credit for is that he's at least man enough to come out and say how he feels. I strongly disagree with him most of the time, but at least he doesn't hide his opinions or feelings, or say something and then back out of it or deny he said it after the fact. When he says things I know that's how he really feels.
Others on here seem to say things to be deliberately offensive and then backtrack to avoid any repercussions.
I tolerate most things that offend me out of a need for harmony, but sometimes these sticky issues need to be brought out into the light and taken on.
I agree with you that Yeshu is much less offensive than "Jeebus".
Chaim I hope you don't think I've been ugly to people. I'm being honest and I want other people to be honest and not underhanded and sneaky.
One thing I give Ron a lot of credit for is that he's at least man enough to come out and say how he feels. I strongly disagree with him most of the time, but at least he doesn't hide his opinions or feelings, or say something and then back out of it or deny he said it after the fact. When he says things I know that's how he really feels.
Others on here seem to say things to be deliberately offensive and then backtrack to avoid any repercussions.
I tolerate most things that offend me out of a need for harmony, but sometimes these sticky issues need to be brought out into the light and taken on.
I agree with you that Yeshu is much less offensive than "Jeebus".
Thank you.
I find this thread very depressing.
I just want to say how much I appreciate the care, the support and the friendship expressed by all the non-Jewish JTFers for the Jewish people and Israel. G-d bless you and all the righteous Gentiles.
KWRBT, in Judaism what happens to atheistic/agnostic Jews when they die (assuming they are not evil people)? Do they go to hell?
WHO IS THE PASTORwhich Pastor
I don't think brennan and I were bickering. I always enjoy our discussions.No, we weren't fighting at all. Only one person really caused any problems.
I don't think brennan and I were bickering. I always enjoy our discussions.No, we weren't fighting at all. Only one person really caused any problems.
How is burning a Koran destroying Amalek? I find that an odd assertion. The command to destroy Amalek does not require burning books, it requires defeating them in battle. I cant find a single reference in Tanach or other Jewish writing which support the burning of books. If you can find a source please provide it...
Every koran has the potential to create more muslims who we all agree are Amalek. So by preventing people from becoming muslim you're saving lives(and souls).+1
How is burning a Koran destroying Amalek? I find that an odd assertion. The command to destroy Amalek does not require burning books, it requires defeating them in battle. I cant find a single reference in Tanach or other Jewish writing which support the burning of books. If you can find a source please provide it...
In Yeshiva I was thought that wiping out Amakeks name is a mitzva . I was also thought when Hamans name is said we make noise.
Burning The most Antisemitic book of all time is a Mitzva using that logic.
How is burning a Koran destroying Amalek? I find that an odd assertion. The command to destroy Amalek does not require burning books, it requires defeating them in battle. I cant find a single reference in Tanach or other Jewish writing which support the burning of books. If you can find a source please provide it...
In Yeshiva I was thought that wiping out Amakeks name is a mitzva . I was also thought when Hamans name is said we make noise.
Burning The most Antisemitic book of all time is a Mitzva using that logic.
True, the name of Amalek will be destroyed. But I dont know if burning a Koran fulfills this mitzvah.
Ron, I asked you to provide me these verses. You never did. You can ask me to "admit" that I am an alien bloodsucker from Venus who kills goats with my laser-ray eyes and drains them of their vital juices all you want, but I can't say that I am if I'm not.
Which Pastor
Ron, I asked you to provide me these verses. You never did. You can ask me to "admit" that I am an alien bloodsucker from Venus who kills goats with my laser-ray eyes and drains them of their vital juices all you want, but I can't say that I am if I'm not.I'm not Ron, but...
Which Pastor
Something Jones. The guy who was going to burn the koran in florida.
I'm not Ron, but...I don't doubt that sick people believe/d that but that is a horrible and grotesque misinterpretation, I can promise.
Specifically, the "parable of the ten minas" [Luke 19:11-27] has been read as a commandment to kill Jews. Yushke is seen as "the king/nobleman" [obviously], and the Jews as the "subjects who hated him". Obviously not all people interpret these verses as such, but for some they have been a "license to kill [the Jews]".
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+19%3A11-27&version=NIV
The reason Jews are associated by some as the "subjects who hated him" comes from numerous times in the NT where "the Jews" or "the Pharisees" are made out to be villainous. Today's Jews, with few exceptions, are all Pharisees descendants [people who follow modern Rabbinic Judaism].
http://www.messiahtruth.com/anti.html
However, there are several verses that could be interpreted as a commandedment to HATE Jews.Which ones?
However, there are several verses that could be interpreted as a commandedment to HATE Jews.Which ones?
Don't have the verse numbers. "Synagogues of Satan....." "Sons of the devil..." "they (those who reject Christianity) are enemies of all men, especially those who circumcise themselves." "The Pharisees and the Scribes are cursed...." " Joseph of Arimatea was a disciple of Jesus, but secretely because of fears of THE JEWS..." all the Jews? wasn't Joseph and Jesus also Jewish?Isn't that proof that those statements never referred to Jews in general?
Don't have the verse numbers. "Synagogues of Satan....." "Sons of the devil..." "they (those who reject Christianity) are enemies of all men, especially those who circumcise themselves." "The Pharisees and the Scribes are cursed...." " Joseph of Arimatea was a disciple of Jesus, but secretely because of fears of THE JEWS..." all the Jews? wasn't Joseph and Jesus also Jewish?Isn't that proof that those statements never referred to Jews in general?
Massa,
Most Catholics would disagree with you. Only rare forbidden sects practice self-flagellation. That is not permitted in any mainstream Roman Catholic church. Your statements about Catholicism and it's supposed Greek roots have been made about Judaism as well
There are 304,805 letters (approximately 79,000 words) in the Torah. In the over 3,000 years since Moses received the original Scripture from Mt. Sinai and wrote the 13 copies (twelve of which were distributed among the Tribes), spelling variants have emerged on a total of nine words -- with absolutely no effect on their meaning. The Christian Bible, in comparison, has over 200,000 variants and in 400 instances, the variants change the meaning of the text; 50 of these are of great significance.
When countering Christian Missionaries it is important to always base one's arguments on actual Scripture – the original Hebrew text (public domain applications and software are available if your browser is not Hebrew-enabled). Remember that the English translation of the Tanach (which they call the “Tanach”) in nearly every Christian Bible is taken from the Septuagint, one of many Greek translations that differed considerably from the Masoretic text. It is this Greek Septuagint, not the original Hebrew, that was the main basis for the Old Latin, Coptic, Ethiopic, Armenian, Georgian, Slavonic, and part of the Arabic translations of the Tanach.
Even the earliest English translation of the JPS Tanach (Jewish Publication Society) was a slightly modified version of the Tanach found in the King James Bible, instead of a direct translation of the original Hebrew which accompanied it. Christian Missionaries will almost always use the English translation of the JPS Tanach as a "proof text." Far more accurate English translations of the Masoretic text are found in Koren's The Jerusalem Bible and Artscroll's Stone Edition Tanach.
Muman,
Many times Jews have been said to have been influenced by Greek ideas and philosophy. Look at Philo of Alexandria for starters
Jesus spoke in Aramaic and the NT was originally written in Aramaic, at least the Gospels. Not to missionize here but just to set the record straight, the idea that the first Christians were self-hating Jews who despised their religion and wanted to change it is false. They were Jews (many of them Pharisees) who really were convinced they had found the Messiah. Of course the Jews of JTF do not agree with this, and that's okay, but I just wanted to explain their mentality.
Muman,
Many times Jews have been said to have been influenced by Greek ideas and philosophy. Look at Philo of Alexandria for starters
Well the whole story of Channukah is the story of the small group of religious Jews who uprooted and drove out the Greek and Hellenist Jews. I never admired the Greeks, nor the Jewish Hellenists. But it is true that the secular Jew has been gravely influenced by the Greek culture. Judaism stands against many of the Greek philosophies, including the adulation of physical beauty, the belief that science and math hold all the truth of the world, and the false belief in many gods.
I don't think Judaism, the religion, owes anything to the greek culture.
Muman,
Many times Jews have been said to have been influenced by Greek ideas and philosophy. Look at Philo of Alexandria for starters
Well the whole story of Channukah is the story of the small group of religious Jews who uprooted and drove out the Greek and Hellenist Jews. I never admired the Greeks, nor the Jewish Hellenists. But it is true that the secular Jew has been gravely influenced by the Greek culture. Judaism stands against many of the Greek philosophies, including the adulation of physical beauty, the belief that science and math hold all the truth of the world, and the false belief in many gods.
I don't think Judaism, the religion, owes anything to the greek culture.
Yes this is true, but the majority of Jews after and around the time of Jesus were self-professed proud Hellenists