What a bozo.
If you are going to have a picture of someone to inspire you on the High Holy Days:(http://www.subvertednation.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/baruch-goldstein-terrorist-jew-murderer.jpg)
ZK"L
Looks like he just got out of atheist church (the bar).
(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6877/rabinlolzn8.jpg)Looks like a faggot.
What a bozo.
If you are going to have a picture of someone to inspire you on the High Holy Days:(http://www.subvertednation.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/baruch-goldstein-terrorist-jew-murderer.jpg)
ZK"L
Who is that?
What a bozo.
If you are going to have a picture of someone to inspire you on the High Holy Days:(http://www.subvertednation.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/baruch-goldstein-terrorist-jew-murderer.jpg)
ZK"L
Who is that?
Rabinvs Telavivvs Rex Iudeoum
Sancta Sancta Sancta
(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6877/rabinlolzn8.jpg)
You thought that The State of Israel was established and won by Chasidic Masters who davened until Ha'shem granted them the territory and international recognition?
However, "had the shoe been on the other foot" ...
Had the nationalist right wing camp been thoroughly entrenched in the seats of power and influence inside Eretz, in collusion with the British occupiers, and supported by most Jewish communities worldwide ...
And had Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir then become aware that a refugee ship was approaching which was concealing the Communist/Socialists David Ben Gurion and Shimon Peres so that they could enter the land, unite the entire Marxist camp behind them and overthrow all of the Nationalist Zionists in hopes of creating a Marxist Israel aligned with Stalinist Russia ...
The sinking of the Altalena was an egregious and heinous act, which allowed the followers of Jabotinsky to gain much sympathy "claiming the moral high ground" as the victims of anti-Torah Labor Zionists.
Rabbi Kahane said that any and all outreach to Jews to encourage them to make aliyah was not only bound to fail from the outset, but furthermore was an outrageous fraud being perpetrated against all Jewish People by the Israeli Government, The Jewish Agency for Israel, and all other Zionist Organizations, because all appeals for Jewish aliyah could only succeed by acknowledging that there is one reason, and one reason only, as to why any Jew would make aliyah and REMAIN in Israel - that one reason being FEAR OF ANTI-SEMITISM AND ANOTHER IMPENDING HOLOCAUST.
Rabbi Kahane clearly taught that life in Israel was so wrought with discomforts, hardships, lack of individual freedoms and liberties, surviving Arab terrorism and the threat of major wars, not to mention the incredible difficulties involved just in making ends meet, that no Jew would ever willingly accept it and embrace it short of their full awareness that to do otherwise would result in their perishing in the next upcoming Holocaust, which Rabbi Kahane was convinced was to take place here in the U.S.A. .
Rabbi Kahane said that any and all outreach to Jews to encourage them to make aliyah was not only bound to fail from the outset, but furthermore was an outrageous fraud being perpetrated against all Jewish People by the Israeli Government, The Jewish Agency for Israel, and all other Zionist Organizations, because all appeals for Jewish aliyah could only succeed by acknowledging that there is one reason, and one reason only, as to why any Jew would make aliyah and REMAIN in Israel - that one reason being FEAR OF ANTI-SEMITISM AND ANOTHER IMPENDING HOLOCAUST.
Rabbi Kahane clearly taught that life in Israel was so wrought with discomforts, hardships, lack of individual freedoms and liberties, surviving Arab terrorism and the threat of major wars, not to mention the incredible difficulties involved just in making ends meet, that no Jew would ever willingly accept it and embrace it short of their full awareness that to do otherwise would result in their perishing in the next upcoming Holocaust, which Rabbi Kahane was convinced was to take place here in the U.S.A. .
Well, that's partially true... But Rabbi Kahane himself reached out to religious Jews as well, and he promoted aliyah to the land of Israel based on its Torah imperative and associated halachic obligations. So it may be true that most Jews will only reply or respond to the threat of a holocaust, but that does not mean that it is fraudulent to present the Torah's case for moving to Israel. In fact, that is the best case to be presented to religious Jews. But what assimilated or secular Jew will care what the Torah says? (and likewise some or many religious Jews won't care either, due to many of the difficulties you mentioned). I think that is his point with statements like that.
Re: "But they were against that on principle. Not by necessity. So you are not really presenting a realistic hypothetical in context of historical reality. "
Of course they were against that on principle!
They wrote that in their own autobiographies, long after the fact.
That is why we must believe them because they were good and principled while others were bad and unprincipled.
They wrote it, I read it, I believe it!
(Because I want to believe it.)
Case closed.
Better do a little more fact checking - like how Yitzhak Shamir had one of his own men quietly and secretly murdered by the other men under his command because Shamir felt he lacked a proper level of discipline.
Jabotinsky left Israel and returned to die in Europe, presumably disillusioned with his own struggle for Zionism.
You can believe the official autobiographies if you so choose, but it's just as easy (although a little more depressing) to realize that political people always make every attempt to make themselves look good by conveniently avoiding mention of their all too human negative behaviors.
Just because they are merely men and not "superheroes" does not lessen themselves in my eyes for the many great things they accomplished.
I seriously doubt that Begin and Shamir and Stern would have allowed themselves to be defeated and sent back to Germany and Poland rather than take the lives of fellow Jews.
This "willful suspension of disbelief" practiced by some here is itself the perfect answer to the previous post asking the question:
If today you cherish the existence of the State of Israel so that for the first time in two thousand years, the Jewish People, here and now during your own lifetime, may return to our ancestral Homeland and have our own military forces to defend us, then you have no choice but to accept both the good along with the bad that created the State.
Looks like he just got out of atheist church (the bar).
Re: "Let me put it to you this way, Massuh: If you really think that Ben Gurion and Rabin fired on the Altalena in order to save the yishuv and all of the people living there from a civil war that would have enabled the Arabs at that critical moment in history to murder them all (of course in addition to saving their own political hegemony), then what makes it "heinous?"
I don't know how you think that question has anything to do with anything I wrote.
And had Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir then become aware that a refugee ship was approaching which was concealing the Communist/Socialists David Ben Gurion and Shimon Peres so that they could enter the land, unite the entire Marxist camp behind them and overthrow all of the Nationalist Zionists in hopes of creating a Marxist Israel aligned with Stalinist Russia ...
I seriously doubt that Begin and Shamir and Stern would have allowed themselves to be defeated and sent back to Germany and Poland rather than take the lives of fellow Jews.
However, "had the shoe been on the other foot" ...
Had the nationalist right wing camp been thoroughly entrenched in the seats of power and influence inside Eretz, in collusion with the British occupiers,