JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: muman613 on December 28, 2010, 03:43:15 PM
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Now this story is very interesting. It is clear that Iranians are working hard to revise history and distort it for its wicked purposes. The story of Purim, the Book of Esther, is celebrated each year by Jews around the world. We remember the story of how the Persian king and his assistant Haman decreed that all Jews in the kingdom were to be executed thus fixing the 'Jewish problem' which they had at the time. Mordechai and Ester were able to save the entire Jewish people through a series of events recounted in Megilah Esther.
Today the modern wicked persian king Amadinajad {who claims to want to wipe Israel off the map} and his perverted henchmen are working on distorting the story. There is even talk of tearing down the mausoleum in Iran for Mordechai and Esther.
Read this story:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/dec/27/iranian-antisemitism-graves-jewish-saints
Iranian government stirs up antisemitism with invented massacre
The threatened desecration of the graves of two Jewish saints is just one result of the spreading of fabricated stories
On 10 December, 250 Basij students from Abu Ali Sina University in the Iranian city of Hamedan gathered in front of the mausoleum of two Jewish saints and threatened to tear it down, in revenge for what the students claimed were Israeli threats to infringe on the al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem.
The graves are those of Esther and Mordechai. Esther was the second wife of Xerxes I (the Great) (486-465BCE, also known as Khashayarsha in Persian), the fourth Zoroastrian king of the Achamenid Empire. Esther was a Jew who moved to Persia after the Babylonian captivity of the Israelites (6th century B.C.E.). King Xerxes also appointed Mordechai, who was Esther's cousin and had raised her, as a royal court adviser. The king's vizier, Haman, plotted to kill Mordechai, who refused to bow down to Haman, and all the Jews of Persia. That plan was foiled and King Xerxes, who wanted to protect his country's Jews, hanged Haman and his 10 sons instead.
Since then, every year on the 14th day in the Hebrew calendar month of Adar, Jews everywhere celebrate the deliverance of Persia's Jews from death. Children and adults go to synagogues and read the Book of Esther all over the world, including in Iran.
The hostile act of tearing down part of the tomb is unprecedented in the modern history of Iran, as graves of Jewish saints in Iran (which also include Daniel) have always been considered holy and respected by Jews and Muslims alike. In fact, many Muslim families go to such graves to pray for the health of their loved ones, alongside their Jewish compatriots.
Even more worrying is the revisionism of Jewish history flourishing in Iran under the government of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
The narrative being promoted by this regime is that it was Mordechai who was a murderer because he ordered the massacre of more than 70,000 Iranians. This is being called an "Iranian holocaust".
The eminent Oxford University Professor Homa Katouzian, in his book Sadeq Hedayat: His Work and His Wondrous World, traces this fabrication back to an article published in Iran-e Bastan in 1934. According to Professor Katouzian, this publication, "imitating German antisemitism, fabricated sensational reports of Jewish plots". Not only did this publication reverse the facts in the story of Esther and Mordechai but it also, among other things, distributed reports that Jews were "selling fatal medicine to Muslims". One of the goals of such articles was to emphasise and promote what it saw as the Aryan roots and historical commonality between Iran and Nazi Germany. Such false reports provided the foundation for anti-Jewish Islamist campaigns in the 1940s.
For years afterwards, no one took notice of such antisemitic material, let alone promoted it. This has all changed since Ahmadinejad took power in 2005. These days one can hear about the fabricated and highly anti-Jewish "Iranian holocaust" from Iranian politicians.
This was seen in September this year. Hussein Kanaani Moghadam, secretary general of the Green party (a separate party – not related to Mousavi or Karroubi) and a member of the central committee of the Osulgarayan coalition, stated in an interview: "According to what is said in the Torah, in the time of Khashayarshah (Xerxes), through Esther and Mordechai, Jews were told that they had three days to kill Iranians and it is said that 75,000 Iranian women, children, old and young were massacred by them."
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Can we plan a massacre? We'll start with that Iranian homo Mahmoud Ahmadinejad! >:(
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"If a man comes to kill you, you must rise early and kill the man first..." (Sanhedrin 72a)
http://www.ou.org/shabbat_shalom/article/masechet_sanhedrin_70a76b/
Sanhedrin 72a-b
Judaism does not subscribe to the idea that one should "turn the other cheek" when attacked. In fact, one important rule taught by the Talmud is ha-ba le-horgekha, hashkem le-horgo - if someone comes planning to kill you, you should hurry to kill him first.
This rule is applied by our Gemara to the case of a ba ba-mahteret - someone who comes at night to rob someone. According to the Mishnah, he can be killed al shem sofo - because of what will happen in the end. Rava explains this to mean that people do not willingly allow others to take their money, so the robber knows that the person he is robbing will defend his property. We assume, therefore, that the robber will be prepared to kill him. Recognizing this, Rava teaches that the Torah instructs ha-ba le-horgekha, hashkem le-horgo.
While Rava presents this rule as being well established in the Torah, he does not offer a source, and it is not clear where, in fact, does the Torah teach this rule?
The Midrash Tanhuma says that we learn this rule from the commandment (Bamidbar 25:17-18) given to Moshe telling the Jewish People to harass and smite the Midianites; the explanation given for this is that they harass and plan against you. Thus we see that their plans make them liable to be fought and defeated.
The Ramah raises the issue that this case is not a normal case of rodef - someone who is chasing after another person to kill him, who can be killed by anyone - since the robber is not directly threatening the owner of the property; it is only his response to the owner of the property who is defending himself that creates the threat. The Ramah explains that we nonetheless view the robber as a rodef since he knows that his actions will instigate the threat against his own life. We therefore view him as being the one who is threatening.
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I fear for the safety of the Jews inside Iran if this situation escalates much further. They live in danger anyway but there could be some kind of tipping point that puts their lives even more at risk.
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For the record here is the relevant portion of Megilah Esther. It is clear that the Jews only massacred the Persians because the Persian people had been prepared to take up arms against the Jewish population, and only because the King allowed it, the Jews took up arms against their oppressors.
It is clear from Jewish history that those killed were not innocent people. Those who were killed by the Jews were antisemitic low-life murderers who deserved the fate they were given. Yemach Shemo to Haman and all those who joined in his antisemitic hate-fest...
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16482
Chapter 9
1. And in the twelfth month-which is the month of Adar-on the thirteenth day thereof, when the king's order and his edict drew near to be put into execution, on the day that the Jews' enemies looked forward to ruling over them, it was reversed,the Jews should rule over their enemies. א.
2. The Jews assembled in their cities, in all the provinces of King Ahasuerus, to lay hand on those who sought to harm them, and no one stood up before them, for their fear had fallen upon all the peoples. ב.
3. And all the princes of the provinces and the satraps and the governors and those that conduct the king's affairs elevated the Jews, for the fear of Mordecai fell upon them. ג.
4. For Mordecai was great in the king's house, and his fame went forth throughout all the provinces, for the man Mordecai waxed greater and greater. ד.
5. And the Jews smote all their enemies with the stroke of the sword and with slaying and destruction, and they did to their enemies as they wished. ה.
6. And in Shushan the capital, the Jews slew and destroyed five hundred men. ו.
7. And Parshandatha and Dalphon and Aspatha, ז.
8. and Poratha and Adalia and Aridatha, ח.
9. and Parmashta and Arisai and Aridai and Vaizatha: ט.
10. The ten sons of Haman the son of Hammedatha, the adversary of the Jews, they slew, but on the spoil they did not lay their hands. י.
11. On that day, the number of those slain in Shushan the capital came before the king. יא.
12. And the king said to Queen Esther, "In Shushan the capital the Jews slew and destroyed five hundred men, and the ten sons of Haman; in the rest of the king's provinces what have they done! Now what is your petition, and it shall be granted you, and what is your request, and it shall be done." יב.
13. And Esther said, "If it please the king, let tomorrow too be granted to the Jews to do as today's decree, and let them hang Haman's ten sons on the gallows." יג.
14. Now the king ordered that it be done so, and a decree was given in Shushan, and they hanged Haman's ten sons. יד.
15. Now the Jews who were in Shushan assembled on the fourteenth day of Adar as well, and they slew in Shushan three hundred men, but upon the spoils they did not lay their hands. טו.
16. And the rest of the Jews who were in the king's provinces assembled and protected themselves and had rest from their enemies and slew their foes, seventy-five thousand, but upon the spoil they did not lay their hands טז.
17. on the thirteenth of the month of Adar, and they rested on the fourteenth thereof, and made it a day of feasting and joy. יז.
18. And the Jews who were in Shushan assembled on the thirteenth thereof and on the fourteenth thereof, and rested on the fifteenth thereof, and made it a day of feasting and joy. יח.
19. Therefore, the Jewish villagers, who live in open towns, make the fourteenth day of the month of Adar [a day of] joy and feasting and a festive day, and of sending portions to one another. יט.
20. And Mordecai inscribed these things and sent letters to all the Jews who were in all the provinces of King Ahasuerus, both near and far, כ.
21. to enjoin them to make the fourteenth day of the month of Adar and the fifteenth day thereof, every year, כא.
22. as the days when the Jews rested from their enemies, and the month that was reversed for them from grief to joy and from mourning to a festive day-to make them days of feasting and joy, and sending portions one to another, and gifts to the poor. כב.
23. And the Jews took upon themselves what they had commenced to do and what Mordecai had written to them. כג.
24. For Haman the son of Hammedatha the Agagite, the adversary of all the Jews, had devised to destroy the Jews, and he cast the pur-that is the lot-to terrify them and destroy them. כד.
25. And when she came before the king, he commanded through letters that his evil device that he had devised against the Jews return upon his own head, and to destroy him and his sons on the gallows. כה.
26. Therefore, they called these days Purim after the name pur; therefore, because of all the words of this letter, and what they saw concerning this matter, and what happened to them. כו.
27. The Jews ordained and took upon themselves and upon their seed and upon all those who join them, that it is not to be revoked to make these two days according to their script and according to their appointed time, every year. כז.
28. And these days shall be remembered and celebrated throughout every generation, in every family, every province, and every city, and these days of Purim shall not be revoked from amidst the Jews, and their memory shall not cease from their seed. כח.
29. Now, Queen Esther, the daughter of Abihail, and Mordecai the Jew wrote down all [the acts of] power, to confirm the second Purim letter. כט.
30. And he sent letters to all the Jews, to one hundred twenty-seven provinces, the realm of Ahasuerus, words of peace and truth, ל.
31. to confirm these days of Purim in their appointed times, as Mordecai the Jew and Esther the queen had enjoined them, and as they had ordained for themselves and for their seed, the matters of the fasts and their cry. לא.
32. Now Esther's order confirmed these matters of Purim, and it was inscribed in the book.
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And there should be another purim miracle in iran
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And you claim that the Talmud says that Gentiles have animal souls, which is scarcely more philo-Semitic than these Iranian claims.
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And you claim that the Talmud says that Gentiles have animal souls, which is scarcely more philo-Semitic than these Iranian claims.
Liar... You make comments without knowing about that which you speak...
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How about you presenting your side of those comments made?
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How about you presenting your side of those comments made?
DBF,
Lisa and others have grown tired of this fued. I too have no desire to continue it.
If you would like to talk to me in a rational manner I will unblock PMs from you and we can engage in this discussion {so long as you don't do things like you did before}...
I have repeated my personal and my understanding of Jewish belief on the topic of the Jewish soul versus the non-Jewish soul. It is my belief that all humans are created in the image of Hashem, that every human has the potential to be a Jew and fulfill the Jewish mission. There is nothing Superior about the Jewish soul, only that we have a mission in this world to rectify it, to elevate it, and to bring G-dliness to it. I hope I do not have to repeat it again...
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Considering the lies about my PMs that you were already caught in in the Christian Zionist-bashing thread, that means quite little to me.
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Considering the lies about my PMs that you were already caught in in the Christian Zionist-bashing thread, that means quite little to me.
Hah... You never give up with your lies. You know you sent to me pictures of pigs, bacon, and ham with the intent purpose of appealing to my inclination {which I have overcome with my teshuva}. What you did is not excusable as it constitutes placing a stumbling block before the blind. But you have no concept of commandments and you can hurt others as you wish without any repercussions {as members of your faith have done for centuries}... You are one wicked mofo...
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Guys if you are going to start up again please take it to PM. I do not want this thread to get off topic. Lets get off the so-called Gentile inferiority issue and get back to wishing a second Purim on the Iranians.
Ok, I will attempt to ignore DBF as long as my friends know that I am doing this to avoid conflict at JTF. I apologize for this but I will always defend myself against evil...
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I see another threat much worse than just distorting Purim history. Purim happened about 2500 years ago, so no person in his sane mind would try to distort it to vilfy the Jews. Nobody would care if someone could "prove" that the victim was the agressor in any ancient history war. If they really hope to achieve something by distorting history, it means that they also suscribe to the nazi idea that Jews are "an evil race" of subhumans" and others can blame their "race" for everything. If someone could verily prove that in a war among Gentiles history were wrong and the victim was in fact the agressor, would it have any effect today? Surely not! So, why is it different when it comes to Jews?
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Dan, this isn't babbling to further a beef, these are actual things Muman has told JTFers in PM and is now denying.
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I see another threat much worse than just distorting Purim history. Purim happened about 2500 years ago, so no person in his sane mind would try to distort it to vilfy the Jews. Nobody would care if someone could "prove" that the victim was the agressor in any ancient history war. If they really hope to achieve something by distorting history, it means that they also suscribe to the nazi idea that Jews are "an evil race" of subhumans" and others can blame their "race" for everything. If someone could verily prove that in a war among Gentiles history were wrong and the victim was in fact the agressor, would it have any effect today? Surely not! So, why is it different when it comes to Jews?
What is so sick about it is that they are twisting Jewish history. Should a Jew now not celebrate Purim because it is supposedly a celebration of a massacre of 'poor helpless persians'? I think the attempt to paint Judaism as a religion of hate and murder can be damaging.... Not so much about what happened 2500 years ago, but what they claim Jews in Israel are today...
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Changing the subject I see...
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I've gotten PMs that made me raise my eyebrows before, but I'm not going to get into the details of them. I personally think that continuing a lot of these fights is only going to hurt the forum, which is why I'm choosing to stay out of the argument.
I think we should let it go as much as possible and try to have some harmony. We have to stop this open bickering on the forum because we're going into anti-Obama mode soon and we can't have it disrupting everything.
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I've gotten PMs that made me raise my eyebrows before, but I'm not going to get into the details of them. I personally think that continuing a lot of these fights is only going to hurt the forum, which is why I'm choosing to stay out of the argument.
I think we should let it go as much as possible and try to have some harmony. We have to stop this open bickering on the forum because we're going into anti-Obama mode soon and we can't have it disrupting everything.
Rubystars, you are wiser than I am, but it bothers me that we have a "moderator" that says the same things about Judaism as many WNs.
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And you claim that the Talmud says that Gentiles have animal souls, which is scarcely more philo-Semitic than these Iranian claims.
Gentiles have animals souls, yes. So do Jews. Both are called, "Nefesh HaBahamis". If you get hungry for food, you know you have a Nefesh HaBahamis. Every human has one.
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That is not what was written, ABC. I believe your explanation of what Talmud says.
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The issue of soul is very complex. But some readers here have a difficult time reading that the Jewish belief is that there is a special aspect of our soul which was given to us as Jews. Why is this so hard for gentiles to understand? It is so clear that many sects of Christianity believe that Jews are of the devil and that one can only be saved by believing in their messiah. So Jews believe that we have special souls which are given a mission to bring G-d into the world.
There is nothing wrong with believing this. Rabbi Kahane has said similar things {I linked to his 'Why be Jewish' speech in another thread for those interested}, and I am not ashamed of believing it. Considering what my family dealt with at the hands of gentiles in both Ukraine and Poland I am never ever going to compromise my Jewish neshama.
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So finally we are getting closer to the truth Muman. How about owning up to what you wrote verbatim, and defending it.
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So finally we are getting closer to the truth Muman. How about owning up to what you wrote verbatim, and defending it.
I have not stated anything which I have not said many times. This is a basic fact of the Jewish faith... I have not said anything other than that Jews have a special Neshama, and you have had nothing but ill-feelings towards me since.
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It's obvious that Jews have an additional level of soul. It generally shows itself more strongly during some Jewish Festivals. What's the problem with it? We have the priviledge of being able to be righteous by keeping only Seven Laws, something a Jew cannot do (He msut keep all the 613 mitzvot). And no Jew has ever come to me with bitterness, envy or resentment for that fact.
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That's not what was written. Let the person who wrote it explain himself, because I sure as heck don't know what he meant by it.
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We massacred people alright, but they weren't Iranians, they were Persians, and these were Persians who were planning to murder us off, armed themselves in order to do so, until receiving a decree warning against trying.
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KWRBT, from what I know I respect you as a knowledgable and level-headed religious Jew. Can you please tell me why a professing Torah Jew would claim that there is Talmudic opinion stating that Gentiles have a "non-human soul" and are "physical animals"? Several credible people have denied this and I believe them.
Where would someone get such an idea?
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I have never read any member here saying that Gentiles are not-humans? You just claim to have read it but fail to provide a link.
According to the ethimology of the word "Human" in many languages, I think that, in fact, there are many peoples and tribes (which I won't mention) that originalley believed they were the only humans, but that's not the case of the Jews. Jews love the memory of Abraham, Noach and many other patriarchs who were born as Gentiles. except Abraham, the others did not even become Jewish later.
Now, since you demand explanations, we can also require you to explain your beliefs. What happens to any person who is non-Christian according to your church? Is he saved? Or will he go to Hell? Just answer this.
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Raul, I explained it was sent as a PM, and not to me personally. But I said pretty much verbatim what it contained.
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Raul, I explained it was sent as a PM, and not to me personally. But I said pretty much verbatim what it contained.
In Judaism it's Rechilut to disclose PM's, and especially if you can't provide a proof of thet PM's.
But you didn't answer my question about your beliefs.
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What did you ask me about my beliefs?
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KWRBT, from what I know I respect you as a knowledgable and level-headed religious Jew. Can you please tell me why a professing Torah Jew would claim that there is Talmudic opinion stating that Gentiles have a "non-human soul" and are "physical animals"? Several credible people have denied this and I believe them.
Where would someone get such an idea?
If he really did say that he probably didn't mean it that way - that would be my guess. It may be a misunderstanding of a kabbalistic teaching, or a heat-of-the-moment reaction which was not careful enough to phrase things properly, or a combination.
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He would have to say why he meant that. But it sure seems to me to be a lot more than an exaggeration or "heat-of-the-moment" response. I'd like to know why he would have anything to do with a claim about Talmud that is routinely made on Pedofront.
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I wouldn't assume that Muman views gentiles as "non-human." (I wouldn't really assume that about anyone, but knowing muman, I think that it simply can't be the case). I think that on the forum Muman has expressed sensitivity about other people of other nations' well-being and compassion for them, and he has shared about his past some stories of individuals he helped get their life in order who were not Jewish. Someone who thinks 'non-Jews are not human' doesn't do or say the things Muman does. Ignoring the times when he has upset you in his discussing of other religions, and I realize he has upset quite a few here on that subject, does anyone really doubt the above?
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What did you ask me about my beliefs?
You calim to be angry with a Jew for aleggely having said Gentiles are non-human. I doubt a Jew could say that, because Judaism doen't say that, and they Gentile many Gentile patriarchs as sent by G-d. Noach is the most known example.
Now, there may be other peoples, not the Jews, that have believed they were the only humans, and the rest were something like aliens. But there are SOME Christinas who believe that non-Christians are not only spiritually inferior, but also deserve to burn in Hell for eternity. So I want to know if you and your church, by chance, holds that belief.
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He would have to say why he meant that. But it sure seems to me to be a lot more than an exaggeration or "heat-of-the-moment" response. I'd like to know why he would have anything to do with a claim about Talmud that is routinely made on Pedofront.
What claim do the WN's [YS"V] make about the Talmud?
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KWRBT, you don't know what the real Muman is like, just like you don't know what the real me is like or me the real you. The difference is that you haven't given JTFers good reason to question your credibility online. But it's foolish to just believe all of what any internet figure says, especially if they have been caught in lies.
Anyone can read chabad.org and copy paragraphs from it. That's all I'm sayin'.
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What claim do the WN's [YS"V] make about the Talmud?
You know--that it supports pedophilia, that it teaches that Gentiles are subhuman, etc. BTW, Muman strongly defended the troll Wonga when he made that thread claiming that the Talmud supports pedophilia--remember?
I doubt a Jew could say that, because Judaism doen't say that
Indeed I doubt that any real Jew would say that either. Hint-hint.
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how about we demolish the 2 nazi mosques on the temple mount and dump the remains in a sewer.
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What claim do the WN's [YS"V] make about the Talmud?
You know--that it supports pedophilia, that it teaches that Gentiles are subhuman, etc. BTW, Muman strongly defended the troll Wonga when he made that thread claiming that the Talmud supports pedophilia--remember?
Oh, okay. I thought it might be something to do with the debate of what 'Yeshu' stands for in the Talmud [and that Jesus is never mentioned in the Talmud].
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Isn't Yeshu Hebrew shorthand for Yehoshua (Jesus)?
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how about we demolish the 2 nazi mosques on the temple mount and dump the remains in a sewer.
I think the remains should be loaded on a B-52 bomber and dumped on the Kaba from a high enough altitude to demolish it as well.
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I'd like to see Muman explain this post:
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,23763.msg254376.html#msg254376
I dont consider Jews to be white. Traditional Jews are believed to be descended from Semitic races which are most certainly not white like caucasians {whitey }.
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I think the Dome of the Rock Mosque needs to be painstakingly lifted from its foundation and transplanted to where the Ka'aba Stone used to be after it was napalmed at the height of the annual hajj. Then it needs to be turned into the world's most upscale pork butcher shop.
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Isn't Yeshu Hebrew shorthand for Yehoshua (Jesus)?
I do not believe so [although some people do make this mistake often; I myself did not always know what I now believe to be correct]. As KWRBT said earlier the characters [plural!] known as Yeshu in the Talmud are impossible to be Jesus simply by the dating of each of their own time periods.
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Alright, thanks for your explanation Ari but that wasn't really the reason why the term Yeshu came into debate. Yeshu is used to mean Jesus today in any case among Jews. Muman was prattling on and on about "Jeebus" in another thread and when I suggested that he say Yeshu instead, he posted this:
(http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x396/CobraStar37/JTF.jpg)
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Alright, thanks for your explanation Ari but that wasn't really the reason why the term Yeshu came into debate. Muman was prattling on and on about "Jeebus" in another thread and when I suggested that he say Yeshu instead, he posted this:
(http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x396/CobraStar37/JTF.jpg)
I can understand that. I was just wondering if WN's were saying that the Yeshu(s) of the Talmud equal the Jesus of your religion.
One of my rabbis refers to Jesus as 'Yushke', which is Yiddish, and most certainly refers uniquely to Jesus and not people from the Talmud.
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Iehoshua (which means H" saves) is a Jewish name. Iehoshua bin Nun, for example. Ieshua was a short form of Iehoshua and many Jews had that name during the Second Temple period.
Now, let's spell both names in Hebrew. Iehoshua is Yud, Hey, Vav, Shin, Vav, 'ayin. Ieshua, the short form is Yud, Shin, Vav, 'ayin. 'ayin is a difficult letter to pronunce and some people made it mute. Samaritans don't pronunce it, and probably Galilean Jews also dropped it. If you drop the 'ayin, then you have to drop the last non written vowel a. So Ieshu could easily have been the current pronunciation of Ieshua in northern Israel. But, the man named Ieshu in the Talmud, could never be the same as the Christian Jesus, because that Ieshu lived about 130 years earlier. He could simply have been any other man called Ieshua.
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As far as I have heard, Yeshu is sort of a universally-accepted Jewish term for Jesus. I don't know what it meant historically but that's how it is used today. I don't know what WNs claim about Jesus or Yeshu. Most of them hate Jesus because he was Jewish, though.
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No one here believes Gentiles are any different than Jews with the exception of religious beliefs. You believe A, and I believe B. DBF, why are you making this into such an issue
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I'd like to see Muman explain this post:
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,23763.msg254376.html#msg254376
I dont consider Jews to be white. Traditional Jews are believed to be descended from Semitic races which are most certainly not white like caucasians {whitey }.
What is so hard to understand about this. All Jews who are born into families which have been Jewish for 1000s of years have DNA which traces back to the original Hebrews. This has been proven by modern scientific method.... Ask any Jew who has done a DNA test to determine whether there has been conversion in their family...
But Judaism is not a race. We allow converts, and converts are given the same status as a full fledged Jew... But we all believe we are descended from the forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...
You have a problem with that?
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I'd like to see Muman explain this post:
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,23763.msg254376.html#msg254376
I dont consider Jews to be white. Traditional Jews are believed to be descended from Semitic races which are most certainly not white like caucasians {whitey }.
I don't consider Jews "white" either.
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KWRBT, you don't know what the real Muman is like, just like you don't know what the real me is like or me the real you. The difference is that you haven't given JTFers good reason to question your credibility online. But it's foolish to just believe all of what any internet figure says, especially if they have been caught in lies.
I don't consider muman an "internet figure" - he's been pretty open about his identity including a picture of himself, and he has shared some things about his life that I was surprised he'd be so open about. I really have no reason to believe he's lying about those things. You, on the other hand, are biased because of your personal dispute with muman, so you tend to assume the worst about him. I think that's a fruitless endeavor.
Anyone can read chabad.org and copy paragraphs from it. That's all I'm sayin'.
But I never made reference to that regarding Muman.
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I'd like to see Muman explain this post:
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,23763.msg254376.html#msg254376
I dont consider Jews to be white. Traditional Jews are believed to be descended from Semitic races which are most certainly not white like caucasians {whitey }.
I don't consider Jews "white" either.
count me in. Jews aren't "white"
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And maybe I made this post up with copy & paste DBF.... If only you could write more than a paragraph on your own maybe we can talk...
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,35563.0.html
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According to the book of Esther Jews did massacre their enemies and I wish there would soon be another payback day for the evil Iranians of today.
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As far as I have heard, Yeshu is sort of a universally-accepted Jewish term for Jesus. I don't know what it meant historically but that's how it is used today.
Jews don't have a "Jewish term" for Jesus because he's not relevant to us.
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And maybe I made this post up with copy & paste DBF.... If only you could write more than a paragraph on your own maybe we can talk...
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,35563.0.html
That's not an explanation for why you said that Jews "aren't white".
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What's the problem if a Jew considers that Jews are not white? Anthrpological races are irrelevant to Judaism. A Jew is someone who descends on an interrupted matrilineal line from a woman who stood at Mt. Sinai at the time the Torah was given, or from a a woman who converted before he was born, or if he, himself, converted. Hebrews are Semite and according to anthropology, Semites are a part of the white race, but a Jew can have any opinion about anthropology. Torah does not command Jews to believe in this or that scientifical idea which is irrelevant to the mitzvot.
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I agree with Chaim that Jews should NOT be perceived as a race. Once you do this, it marginalizes our movement, making Judaism appear to be concerned about DNA rather than faith... and even worse, it feeds to the stupidity of StørmFrønt.
I knew an ethnic Thai lady who converted to Judaism, and I consider her FAR more of a Jew than a self hating piece of crap like George Soros.
By the way, Ive NEVER heard an Ashkenazi Jew not identify themselves as white, but again, who cares.
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(http://www.hsbakery.com/uploads/products/images/deli-jewish-rye.jpg)
(http://www.capptx.com/userfiles/wonder_bread2.jpg)
:::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D
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Jews aren't a race . It's our souls that separate us from other nations.
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By the way, Ive NEVER heard an Ashkenazi Jew not identify themselves as white, but again, who cares.
Well, you have now. Because I don't identify as white, and I am of Ashkenazi heritage. Whenever there is "ethnicity" in forms, I fill out "other" or choose not to reveal it. (Because they never list Jewish as an ethnicity).
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By the way, Ive NEVER heard an Ashkenazi Jew not identify themselves as white, but again, who cares.
Well, you have now. Because I don't identify as white, and I am of Ashkenazi heritage. Whenever there is "ethnicity" in forms, I fill out "other" or choose not to reveal it. (Because they never list Jewish as an ethnicity).
I'm "pure" ashkenazi but my look is clearly middle-eastern.
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Personally identifying as a Jew rather than "white" is one thing. Categorically stating that you don't consider Jews white is a whole different ballgame.
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Personally identifying as a Jew rather than "white" is one thing. Categorically stating that you don't consider Jews white is a whole different ballgame.
FBD,
And who made you an expert on Jews? Fool...
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Nice job on the hasty edit. Not.
Hasty edit of what? And what does this image have to do with anything? You have obviously photoshopped this image...
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Considering it's not my image, I did not.