JTF.ORG Forum
Save Western Civilization => Save America => Topic started by: admin on June 03, 2007, 02:19:35 AM
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Your comments on YouTube against JTF are not appropriate. You placed them in a video in memory of the victims of September 11. Instead of drawing people to JTF, you try to drive them away. Is this a way to honor the American martyrs who were victimized by Nazi Islam? Maybe you did it because the victims featured in the video were women.
Your comments against women are not appropriate. Lisa was not appointed because of "affirmative action for women". It's true that it is good that she is a woman because we need a woman to civilize the men on the forum, you included, in fact especially you. Lisa is qualified. Affirmative action appointees are unqualified morons. It is degrading to women to use the the term affirmative action. Lisa is the only woman moderator. If we used affirmative action for women, don't you think every woman on this forum would be a moderator? And I think the Hebrew forum also only has one female moderator, a 17 year old righteous religious girl. You talk about women being and JTF being "sexist against men", but I think you are sexist against women.
Your comments against David Ben Moshe are not appropriate. However, this is not a banable offense because Chaim has said that JTF officials are allowed to be criticized. But the above mentioned things are a banable offense and you will be banned the next time you do those things.
Trash talk against all women is not allowed on this forum.
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This is probably none of my business, but I really have no respect for the guy after he started a thread flaming Lisa. I think he *might* be a Muzzie.
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http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=5016.0
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Actually, Yacov temporarily unbanned him so that he has a chance to respond to our posts.
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Good move, Lisa.
He was given way too many chances.
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When I read his comments under his youtube name I knew it was him. His attitude towards women is quite Islamic.
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I don't think I ever read one of his posts that were not against women. He must of had some real problems somewhere along the line and may need to get some professional help to resolve this conflict he has. Who knows what he had to deal with in his past to make him feel this way however he can't expect the whole world to feel as he does about this issue. He really needs to go to a support group of some sort where he can talk about that issue with people who are sympathetic with him. JTF is not that place.
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He's an evil individual. His views on women are behind that of even the nazi Islamic world.
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This guy is clearly a misogynist.
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Adam is right!
Women have been calling the shots in our society since the end of WWII.
Women call the shots in times of peace as men do in times of War. We've had it so good for so long that we want to give ALL THINGS TO ALL PEOPLE.
Amnisty, Affirmative Action, tolerance...these are all feminized ideas. Peace, love, coexistance...feminized thinking.
Of course everyone wants peace and love. Still, I remember hearing somewhere:
"When one is kind to the cruel, one ends up being cruel to the kind."
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Take your muslim attitudes and leave then. We don't need people who think women are the downfall of society. We all agree with you that feminism is an evil thing. But you're blaming ideas like peace, love and coexistence on WOMEN!?! That is feminized thinking? Give me a break.
It seems Scriabin and Adam both think women are the direct downfall of western society. I call both of you clearly insane if you think that. You sound like muslims when you say things like this. How is this quote revelent? Are you suggesting women are cruel and it is wrong to be kind towards them? Sounds like you're the cruel one and it would be a crime to be kind towards you.
Scriabin, IMO, you've proven your lack of character. First you were jealous of others for their successes in helping the movement to the point you wanted to leave. I asked to be a GM myself to help the movement and didn't get picked, but I don't care. I'm happy for the ones who are GMs and wish them well. Now it all comes out that you are simply filled with hatred for women. You blame them for everything and sound like a muslim fanatic.
edit: I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but Scriabin's comments really [censored] me off.
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Take your muslim attitudes and leave then. We don't need people who think women are the downfall of society. We all agree with you that feminism is an evil thing. But you're blaming ideas like peace, love and coexistence on WOMEN!?! That is feminized thinking? Give me a break.
It seems Scriabin and Adam both think women are the direct downfall of western society. I call both of you clearly insane if you think that. You sound like muslims when you say things like this. How is this quote revelent? Are you suggesting women are cruel and it is wrong to be kind towards them? Sounds like you're the cruel one and it would be a crime to be kind towards you.
Scriabin, IMO, you've proven your lack of character. First you were jealous of others for their successes in helping the movement to the point you wanted to leave. I asked to be a GM myself to help the movement and didn't get picked, but I don't care. I'm happy for the ones who are GMs and wish them well. Now it all comes out that you are simply filled with hatred for women. You blame them for everything and sound like a muslim fanatic.
Agreed. Also, Scriabin, simply leaving on account of this comment would be immature.
In a way if you hold these views it is good that you are not a GM.
I await you name change to "adam613fan" eagerly ;D
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Peace, love, coexistance...feminized thinking.
I blame all that on John Lennon. Now, if you want to consider him a woman - that's debatable.
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*sigh* You guys are unbelievable! I think there's enough male chauvinism in Judaism already without having to add to it with this type of mentality.
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Adam is right!
Women have been calling the shots in our society since the end of WWII.
Women call the shots in times of peace as men do in times of War. We've had it so good for so long that we want to give ALL THINGS TO ALL PEOPLE.
Amnisty, Affirmative Action, tolerance...these are all feminized ideas. Peace, love, coexistance...feminized thinking.
Of course everyone wants peace and love. Still, I remember hearing somewhere:
"When one is kind to the cruel, one ends up being cruel to the kind."
I've about had it with this place myself.
Scribian, are you being serious here? I agree that there has been to much of a feminist atitude in the recent decades, but to say that adam613 is right, that goes beyond extreme, adam613 bassically says women are worthless, I'm sure you don't think that.
And please don't leave.
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I think Adam was a Muslim. There's no way he can be anything but.
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What was Adam613's name on our forum and waht is his youtube name?
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On the forum he's adam613, I think he is Adam6275 on youtube.
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Oh I must of spaced out for a sec. I see that now. For some reason, I thought he was banned from the forum awhile back. I guess he doesn't post in the general discussion section. Anyways I now see his insane comments. What a pathetic guy. i can only imagine what he looks like.
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I completely disagree with Scriabin and Adam. And I believe that Yacov has taken the proper action under the circumstances. The attack on Lisa was especially unfair.
But I think we should be restrained in our condemnation of Scriabin and Adam. These are two men who are obviously very hurt by things that have happened to them in life.
Do these two men unfairly blame all women? Yes.
Are these two men obsessed with attacking women? Yes.
Can we tolerate such unfair attacks, especially against our outstanding Moderator Lisa? No.
But having communicated with Scriabin in particular, I believe that he is a very decent individual who is suffering emotional distress over something that happened to him.
Scriabin and Adam, you are in my prayers even though I think you are completely wrong.
Adam, I think you should really do tshuva (repentence) for attacking us on videos where we are in the midst of a confrontation with Muslim Nazis who want to exterminate all of us. Right after comments by Muslim Nazis praising Hitler and calling for a holocaust, you have placed your anti-JTF comments claiming that we are pro-women. (I certainly hope that we are pro-women! Without women, we would be lost!)
Anyway, I pray that G-d heals your hurt and teaches you both to honor and respect women as the Bible commands us to do.
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Jimmy:
I respect you wholeheartedly, but I am not Adam.
You say that I am 'Obsessed with attacking women.' That is your opinion.
You say that I unfairly blame ALL Women. Bold words, and untrue at that.
Have I not said many times in the past that I wish Women would behave like Ladies as they did in the 1940's.
Its nice to hear that I am COMPLETELY wrong.
If you had taken the time to read my posts, you would see that I do NOT say exactly the same things as Adam.
Are women to blame for everything? Of course not.
My point is similar to that of Rabbi Kahane when he said that, "the biggest enemy of the Jewish people is Jews themselves."
Women have FAR more influence on society than we give them credit for. They are not stupid. I can tell you this...Men fear Women more than Muslims, Blacks or anything else, and when a Woman tells a man to do something, he does it.
Have you not seen commercial after commercial portraying men as incompetent boobs while showing Women as perfect, wise, brilliant individuals. I don't know HOW MANY times I heard growing up that Girls are smarter than Boys. Never once did I hear the opposite.
I have never attacked Lisa in ANY way, let alone 'unfairly.' Your accusations against me are shocking.
I admit that I am not perfect. Furthermore, I am glad to hear that G-d has taught you EVERYTHING.
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I think you guys need to lighten up. Women are wonderful! Sure, they can be real pains in the tuchuses at times, but so can men. Let's just see these types of of commericals for what they are, parodies, and we should just laugh at them. Let's stop following in the example of Rush Limbaugh.
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I completely disagree with Scriabin and Adam. And I believe that Yacov has taken the proper action under the circumstances. The attack on Lisa was especially unfair.
But I think we should be restrained in our condemnation of Scriabin and Adam. These are two men who are obviously very hurt by things that have happened to them in life.
Do these two men unfairly blame all women? Yes.
Are these two men obsessed with attacking women? Yes.
Can we tolerate such unfair attacks, especially against our outstanding Moderator Lisa? No.
But having communicated with Scriabin in particular, I believe that he is a very decent individual who is suffering emotional distress over something that happened to him.
Scriabin and Adam, you are in my prayers even though I think you are completely wrong.
Adam, I think you should really do tshuva (repentence) for attacking us on videos where we are in the midst of a confrontation with Muslim Nazis who want to exterminate all of us. Right after comments by Muslim Nazis praising Hitler and calling for a holocaust, you have placed your anti-JTF comments claiming that we are pro-women. (I certainly hope that we are pro-women! Without women, we would be lost!)
Anyway, I pray that G-d heals your hurt and teaches you both to honor and respect women as the Bible commands us to do.
Wow... beautifully put!
Scriabin, he didn't mean you were completely wrong on everything ever. He was talking about your views on women. Some things you've said are very true and we've all agree'd with you on. You are wrong in anger towards women.
Sure, they get some things easier than we do. But we have some things easier than they do. And there are good and bad women... and good and bad men. They are human. Both sexes have strengths and weaknesses. That's why G-d made it so that when we had children, they would have both sexes in their lives to teach them. Women are part of G-d's plan just as we are, and His plan is perfect.
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I also never said all women were bad. In fact I am angry at David because he bashed men. Is David Ben Moshe a women? I don't think he is.
FTF, where did I ever say women were worthless? I never said anything of the sort. I've been talking to a women for over a year now. Many matchmakers know I am very much against the feminist movement and are setting me up on dates besides this women that we have been talking now for over a year as she likes but her mother is against any idea of different roles for men and women although she recognizes that many feminst women are mean to other women including her mother not being nice to her. So you don't know what you are talking about. She is very friendly with Mort Klein of the ZOA by the way.
The movement should apologize for making statements as David made that all men under 35 are immature and women are better then MEN IN ALL AREAS. Who is calling the kettle black here? That is saying that MEN ARE WORTHLESS. Which it continues to sound like comments like this are OK. This is unacceptable to me. If you made comments that men were better then women in all area's I wouldn't want to have anything to do with this movement either.
Chaimfan said that it was legal for men to kill their wives in the 1850's in Ameirca. This again is a man making bad statements about men which, yes, has consequences to some men who don't have a lot of connections. I have yet to hear an apologize for this. Chaimfan, Yacov, is also a man. Chaimfan also doesn't women to bear children. I think that is very hateful towards women. Does this movement believe that fathers are needed in a childs life? Can we hear an answer.
Furthermore, almost all of my criticism on Your Tube is again based on making slanderous statements and showing very little compassion towards men. THey are true and let the you tube viewers judge for themselves if they think I am lying. I have never supported these nazi's that say that say they should destory Israel. One right doesn't mean I should overlook this behavior that is taking place here.
Furthermore, Chaimfan calling me a muslim is also not appropriate. I am not crazy about Lisa or Yacov but I never called them muslims. And again Yacov lives with his mother and sister and sounds like he has limited contact with his father. So again he doesn't believe fathers have any rights.
Furthermore, if you are going to ban me and say I believe women are worthless which I never said or even suggested it shows you really don't believe in free speech except for free speech that agrees with you. What I have said you may disagree with but the arguments giving here usually are exactly why I am upset. Yacov says that it is men who create this hateful atitude about other men. Have I given the men that slander other men a free pass? Absolutely not. So why then did he say my comments about Dovid are inappropriate.
I will continue to criticize the movement for it's slander of men and harshness towards men until it stops this. If what I am saying is crazy then my comments on You Tube should help the movement not hurt it as what happens in other cases of false charges against of JTF. If people agree witht the atitude of JTF that women should be moderators over men who have done more for this movement because WOMEN CIVILZE MEN they will gladly join. Don't shoot the messanger here. Please.
Lastly, Jimmy Sullivan. Are you aware that I received the Jewish Press growing up and it always has this negative atitude towards men. THe Jewish Press doesn't believe Fathers are important in their childs life. Furthermore, are you aware that some of the modes of divorcing men are not considered proper by Rabbi's in Israel and if some of these women remarry their children may be considered Mamzer's. Illegitimate. A women in an adulterer relationship. The Jewish Press is more responsibile for this in my opinion then any other newspaper. This is very immoral. This is much more serious then Rabbi Kahane working for a paper that lets say they weren't strict on Kosher or Shabbath. They were very liberal on divorce. And having men pay child support and alimony for children they don't see. THis IS VERY VERY IMMORAL JIMMY. I am not going to keep my mouth shut for a movement that was connected to crap like this and continues to rationalize that women are always the victim which studies have shown otherwise. The movement has done good. It also has done some evil. Denial is not right Jimmy. You will have to answer to g-d as will Chaim Ben Pesach. Chaim's lame excuse that he is not perfect is really bad news. I agree he isn't perfect but you learn from your mistakes rather then continuing ignoring legitimate criticisms of the movement. Telling me that I am going to be PUNISHED because I should ignore the BAD THINGS of the movement is REALLY ARROGANT IN MY OPINION. Blaming REFORM AND CONSERVATIVE JUDAISM FOR THE DAMAGE TO JUDAISM IN AMERICA IS COMPLETE DENIAL IN MY OPINION.
Again if my comments hurt the movement the movement has ITSELF to blame. False criticism of JTF has NOT HURT the movement. My criticism may hurt the movement. But you should make changes rather then blame me for expressing my honest view. Yacov deserves credit for starting this forum but I don't really trust him in other areas. And as I said Lisa was not very nice to me and again to defend Dovid who said that all men under 35 are immature doesn't show any civilized behavior to me. Lisa also defended FOTL and defended Chaimfan when he made comments that men in the 1850's could kill their wives in Ameirca when her own sisters don't respect which I wouldn't have known except the fact that she openly mentioned this on her forum that at first I though was interesting. Why else would I read it? I'm not blaming her for having problems with her sisters. But to just let your own sisters say stuff like that "you are a right wing nut job about you" and not care and yet gets angry at me when I say something speaks volumes of the reason why I don't think too highly of Lisa.
So, again, don't shoot the messanger here.
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Why the hell does he spend his time bashing women when he could be bashing Islam instead. That would be something very worthwhile.
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I think feminazism should not be confused with women.
Women are female humans. Feminazis are man hating dykes.
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I do, because of his fanatical obsession with women in all cases. I do not care if he insults me, but his attacks on Lisa and attacks on JTF on YouTube are way, way over the top and are not tolerable. I suspect Adam's real name is Ahmad and that he assumes the submissive position, arse pointed towards Allah, towards Mecca five times a day.
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Scriabin is alright, perhaps overly sensitive, but Adam is a Muslim.
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He needs to be banned permanently. And I will do it.
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Good job, Lisa.
Adam, you have taken things out of context, blown them out of proportion, said random things meant other things that were NEVER said, and then summed it all up by saying we are evil.
Sure... it's wrong to divorce a good man, cheat one him, take his kids, collect child support but then never let him see them, and the like. Those people ARE evil. So where on EARTH, did you come to the conclusion that this is what we are saying or what we think?? Preposterous.
Ya, You are doing just a great thing in here. Attempting to tear down THIS movement. What a righteous person you are. I mean, there are terrorists wanting to kill us but NO, you find OUR forum to try and put down.
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Ya, You are doing just a great thing in here. Attempting to tear down THIS movement. What a righteous person you are. I mean, there are terrorists wanting to kill us but NO, you find OUR forum to try and put down.
This is EXACTLY the evidence that he is a Muslim Nazi troll. He attacks our forum, issues endless hate diatribes against women, like Muzzie womanbeaters do, and refuses to say anything positive towards Jews/Christians or negative towards Muslim Nazis.
Good job banning Ahmad, Lisa and Jeffguy! :)
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Scriabin, I happen to like you and I know that Chaim is very fond of you.
But on this issue, I think you go way too far.
If I misstated your positions, I apologize. I honestly do not want to be unfair to you.
I did associate you with Adam for the following reasons:
*You once resigned from this forum because we disagreed with Adam's obsessive attacks on women;
*You yourself wrote several hours ago on this thread that "Adam is right".
Adam attacks us on youtube where numerous Muslims are praising Hitler and calling for the extermination of America and Israel. When we are facing those types of attacks, is that the place to write nonsense against Chaim and Rabbi Kahane just because they both once worked for the Jewish Press?
Adam calls our movement "evil" because we don't hate women. And he attacks Lisa because she is a woman. I'm sorry, but this is just not normal. Adam needs help. His obsession with this issue is destroying his ability to see things clearly.
Scriabin, I consider you to be very logical on all other issues. Chaim just praised you again on his latest broadcast and I agree with what he said. It really is a pleasure listening to your questions on the program.
But on this issue, you become so angry that you want to leave the movement even though you agree with us on the vast majority of the other issues.
Anyway, I really do like you Scriabin, and I am sorry that we have this disagreement on this particular matter. I think we probably agree on 90% of the issues.
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I think no matter how much good a woman did for our movement Adam would discount it as worthless. He's a pathologically evil person. A lot of people have been spurned by women in the past in relationships/whatnot and don't react like Islamic nazis.
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Scriabin, I happen to like you and I know that Chaim is very fond of you. But on this issue, I think you go way too far. If I misstated your positions, I apologize. I honestly do not want to be unfair to you.
I did associate you with Adam for the following reasons:
*You once resigned from this forum because we disagreed with Adam's obsessive attacks on women;
*You yourself wrote several hours ago on this thread that "Adam is right".
Adam attacks us on youtube where numerous Muslims are praising Hitler and calling for the extermination of America and Israel. When we are facing those types of attacks, is that the place to write nonsense against Chaim and Rabbi Kahane just because they both once worked for the Jewish Press?
Adam calls our movement "evil" because we don't hate women. And he attacks Lisa because she is a woman. I'm sorry, but this is just not normal. Adam needs help. His obsession with this issue is destroying his ability to see things clearly.
Scriabin, I consider you to be very logical on all other issues. Chaim just praised you again on his latest broadcast and I agree with what he said. It really is a pleasure listening to your questions on the program.
But on this issue, you become so angry that you want to leave the movement even though you agree with us on the vast majority of the other issues.
Anyway, I really do like you Scriabin, and I am sorry that we have this disagreement on this particular matter. I think we probably agree on 90% of the issues.
Jimmy:
Thank you for your kind words. Of course, I probably agree with JTF 95% of the time.
When I said that Adam is right, I should have been more specific. The issue of Feminism is close to our hearts, obviously, but aside from that, we're quite different.
I don't tolerate ANYONE bashing JTF. What Adam did was inexcusable. Still, even the most evil person isn't ALWAYS wrong.
I DO believe that, in times of peace, women rule the roost. Most Women want 'peace at ANY price', I truly believe this. America was great when we were an objective, masculine society.
Are women conspiring to destroy the Western way of life? OF COURSE NOT.
I LOVE Ladies. I HATE Women who smoke, drink, cuss, have tattoos, dress and act like sluts, etc.
If one looks around, one will see few Ladies, but many sluts. This is a MUCH BIGGER problem than Muslims, Blacks, Mexicans, Russia, China or anything else...combined.
Chaim said that Women civilize men. I'd like to make one little correction, LADIES civilize men, while sluts make men into barbaric beasts.
PLEASE ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS JIMMY:
1) Was not the WWII generation a more righteous generation of people than the young people of today?
2) Are there not more sluts now than there were back then?
The fact that Men cannot control themselves as well as women on the issue of Sex means that Women MUST control themselves if Men are to have any chance of becoming civilized.
You're right, I do become emotional regarding this issue, and emotions do cloud one's reason.
Still, I believe that my point is valid.
I am NOT a Women hater, quite the contrary. I simply want Women to be the best they can be, then society will be the best that IT can be. I believe that WOMEN determine the success and/or failure of a society. Its up to the girls to become Ladies again, or we're TRULY FINISHED.
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All the biggest "peace" movements were lead by men, weren't they? Both genders are equally to blame. The fact women are more liberal on average is likely due to the way issues like abortion and affirmative action(in the case of hiring/promoting women) have been portrayed by the leftist media. They have portrayed conservatives as people who are "anti-woman" if they are against these things. More women are likely to be frightened by this and support more liberal ideas.
As for the women wanting peace at all costs, I disagree. I think women generally see American kids dying and they imagine their own son or daughter dying. I would say, and I may be wrong, that mothers are more emotionally attached to their children than fathers. It's usually the dad pushing the kid outta the nest. :P
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Scriabin, the big difference between you and Ahmad is that you are capable of clearly identifying what the problem is with women, and in fact all of us would agree that sluts are a big problem. Ahmad the Muslim hates women in general and not just the evil ones. I do not think you have anything in common with that Nazi troll, but you have everything in common with your fellow Kahanists.
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Scriabin, the big difference between you and Ahmad is that you are capable of clearly identifying what the problem is with women, and in fact all of us would agree that sluts are a big problem. Ahmad the Muslim hates women in general and not just the evil ones. I do not think you have anything in common with that Nazi troll, but you have everything in common with your fellow Kahanists.
Thank you, Chaimfan.
That means alot to me.
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Thanks Scriabin. :)
Now, let's put that unemployed Nazi troll behind us and get discussin'. Scriabin, I know that we would all love to read and contribute to threads about your thoughts as to what is wrong with modern women. Lookin' forward to some. CF
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I'm not sure what you are getting at with "The fact that Men cannot control themselves as well as women on the issue of Sex means that Women MUST control themselves if Men are to have any chance of becoming civilized."
Men are much more easily turned on by a woman's body than vice-versa.
When Women act and behave like sluts (as many today do) men tend to behave immorally. They become more aggressive, less logical, more emotional, not to mention sinful thoughts and feelings.
When Women are modest and decent, society is modest and decent.
1940's America was modest and decent, and so were the Ladies. Even the lowest street hooker would not have been caught dead showing off her body, covered with with tattoos and what not.
This is what I mean.
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Thanks Scriabin. :)
Scriabin, I know that we would all love to read and contribute to threads about your thoughts as to what is wrong with modern women. Lookin' forward to some. CF
Will do. :)
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I agree with Scriabin. I think it's due to the fact that modesty is no longer seen by many women *and* men as a virtue. Rather, it's merely a "hang-up" to be "gotten over."
In fact, a few months ago, the website Salon.com had an article about young virgin women, and how the men they met were all turned off by it, and dumped them as a result. The article quoted a young woman whose boyfriend told her flat out that he once went out with a virgin, and how he vowed to himself never to do it again. And this was right when the woman told the guy that she'd never been intimate with a man before. The writer of the article quoted the website Ask Men.com, which advised its male readers never to date virgins.
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Lisa is an example of how women should be.
Why thank you Yacov! I'm honored.
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Yacov, as I see it, with all the easy access to pr0n and smut these days, and with pre-marital sex being seen by many as no big deal, these men probably want someone who can "satisfy" them (and never mind these men ever wanting to please the women they're with.) I guess with all the women out there who will put out by the first, second or third date, they don't want to bother with any old fashioned women.
And I can almost guarantee you that if a young woman were to say to a man that she wants to wait until marriage, chances are, he would laugh in her face, then say "sorry, no can do." (Now I realize that's not true of the good men here on this forum.)
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Yacov, as I see it, with all the easy access to pr0n and smut these days, and with pre-marital sex being seen by many as no big deal, these men probably want someone who can "satisfy" them (and never mind these men ever wanting to please the women they're with.) I guess with all the women out there who will put out by the first, second or third date, they don't want to bother with any old fashioned women.
Yes, indeed. Men of the older generation were never sex-crazed maniacs like the young men of today. Young men who are not interested in virgins are only looking for quick sex...which a virgin (obviously) is not likely to give.
In the old days, almost every unmarried girl was a virgin. Ladies respected themselves and therefore damanded respect from the Men, and believe me...they got it. Ever notice the way an elderly Gentleman treats an elderly Lady...with the UTMOST class and respect.
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Scribian, I agree with you completely here, you're right on the mark. To be honest I don't think this is something that we can do anything about though. The majority of culture these days is degenerate.
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Scriabin, I agree with you completely here, you're right on the mark.
Thank you FTF.
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I have always said to my female friends that almost all men, consciously or subconsciously, recognize one rule: "Try to seduce every woman. If you don't succeed, marry her!"
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I have always said to my female friends that almost all men, consciously or subconsciously, recognize one rule: "Try to seduce every woman. If you don't succeed, marry her!"
If it's bad for women to engage in pre-marital sex, then why is it acceptable for men to attempt to seduce every woman?
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I have always said to my female friends that almost all men, consciously or subconsciously, recognize one rule: "Try to seduce every woman. If you don't succeed, marry her!"
If it's bad for women to engage in pre-marital sex, then why is it acceptable for men to attempt to seduce every woman?
Lisa, acceptable by whom?
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I have always said to my female friends that almost all men, consciously or subconsciously, recognize one rule: "Try to seduce every woman. If you don't succeed, marry her!"
If it's bad for women to engage in pre-marital sex, then why is it acceptable for men to attempt to seduce every woman?
That is a good question.
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I have always said to my female friends that almost all men, consciously or subconsciously, recognize one rule: "Try to seduce every woman. If you don't succeed, marry her!"
If it's bad for women to engage in pre-marital sex, then why is it acceptable for men to attempt to seduce every woman?
That is a good question.
The question is great, bullcat.
Seduction is a terrible thing, but women who have honor will never be seduced, and those women will receive ultimate respect even by the worst players.
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Yacov,
Is there any way you could reduce the size of your signature?
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Thanks, man.
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Young woman are getting the message that this liberated behavior is acceptable - it comes at them from all sides.
Men should send out the signals that they don't find it attractive. Trying to seduce them may not be that message.
I'm surprised that so many of you feel you can't find a nice girl - I didn't think a nice girl was so attractive to men these days.
I have a young cousin who was also turned off by sexually liberated girls he was meeting in NYC.
He said he thought they were watching too many SEX IN THE CITY episodes.
;D
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It is the fault of the feminists who wanted "sexual liberation". But the feminists don't really care about women's rights because they don't care if women are exploited for sex.
I think this is a mischaracterization of feminism.
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Young woman are getting the message that this liberated behavior is acceptable - it comes at them from all sides.
Men should send out the signals that they don't find it attractive. Trying to seduce them may not be that message.
I'm surprised that so many of you feel you can't find a nice girl - I didn't think a nice girl was so attractive to men these days.
I have a young cousin who was also turned off by sexually liberated girls he was meeting in NYC.
He said he thought they were watching too many SEX IN THE CITY episodes.
;D
Bullcat, seduction is evil. Attempts to seduce are not. I think, if a man is attracted to a girl, then any signs of amazement such as looking at her or starting a conversation may be considered attempts of seduction. However, a man does only 50% of the job. The other 50% is handled by the girl, and her actions will define the end result.
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Young woman are getting the message that this liberated behavior is acceptable - it comes at them from all sides.
Men should send out the signals that they don't find it attractive. Trying to seduce them may not be that message.
I'm surprised that so many of you feel you can't find a nice girl - I didn't think a nice girl was so attractive to men these days.
I have a young cousin who was also turned off by sexually liberated girls he was meeting in NYC.
He said he thought they were watching too many SEX IN THE CITY episodes.
;D
Bullcat, seduction is evil. Attempts to seduce are not. I think, if a man is attracted to a girl, then any signs of amazement such as looking at her or starting a conversation may be considered attempts of seduction. However, a man does only 50% of the job. The other 50% is handled by the girl, and her actions will define the end result.
I'm not really in disagreement with you.
A woman is responsible for her own actions.
Although I don't get the seduction is evil and attempts to seduce are not part.
Anyway - goodnight to you - Zvulun ben Moshe.
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Buenos noches, bullcat!
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I think our spoiled culture has a lot to do with the relationship problems. Men and women are both guilty of trophy syndrome to cover up for the fact that they don't love themselves. A person cannot love him or herself if they do not respect themselves (through doing what's right and controlling one's self - not others). Love and respect go hand in hand.
Too many people are trying to cover up the fact that they don't like who they are by using another person as idolatry. I'm not saying that a wife or husband can't be deeply loved... I'm saying that we have to put G-d first. Adam and Eve taught us this lesson.
Given any choice, we can do 1 of 3 things. 1) What feels good now, 2) what looks good, or 3) what's right. The more this culture tries use "moral relativism", the worse they feel about who they are. A person who does what's right, loves and respects himself. A person who, to often, tries to convert "love from someone else" into "self love" (using ego) is not in control because other people's opinions of them control them.
You can ONLY love yourself by doing what's right. It's the only way. G-d's perfect design made it this way.
Also, everyone thinks we are supposed to be the same. We are FAR from being the same... and I think that's beautiful.
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You make very good points here jeffguy.
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I think our spoiled culture has a lot to do with the relationship problems. Men and women are both guilty of trophy syndrome to cover up for the fact that they don't love themselves. A person cannot love him or herself if they do not respect themselves (through doing what's right and controlling one's self - not others). Love and respect go hand in hand.
Too many people are trying to cover up the fact that they don't like who they are by using another person as idolatry. I'm not saying that a wife or husband can't be deeply loved... I'm saying that we have to put G-d first. Adam and Eve taught us this lesson.
Given any choice, we can do 1 of 3 things. 1) What feels good now, 2) what looks good, or 3) what's right. The more this culture tries use "moral relativism", the worse they feel about who they are. A person who does what's right, loves and respects himself. A person who, to often, tries to convert "love from someone else" into "self love" (using ego) is not in control because other people's opinions of them control them.
You can ONLY love yourself by doing what's right. It's the only way. G-d's perfect design made it this way.
Also, everyone thinks we are supposed to be the same. We are FAR from being the same... and I think that's beautiful.
Jeffguy, the problem is that a lot of people by refusing the original law (Torah), try to find their own justifications about what is right and end up doing 1) What feels good now, and 2) what looks good.
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Lisa, acceptable by whom?
By that I mean telling men it's ok to seduce as many women as possible. As the saying goes, "it takes two to tango."
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Lisa, acceptable by whom?
By that I mean telling men it's ok to seduce as many women as possible. As the saying goes, "it takes two to tango."
Don't forget who leads in tango.
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Scriabin, after reading your explanation, I agree with every word. In fact, I think almost everyone here now is agreeing with everything you are saying.
You thought we all disagree with you, and we all thought that we disagree with you, but now that you have explained yourself, we all find ourselves agreeing with you. Everything you are saying makes perfect sense.
This should prove to all of us that we should have the patience to fully explain things to our fellow JTFers. Getting angry and fighting with our fellow JTFers is foolish. We are part of JTF because we all basically want a more moral and decent world. We have different ways of expressing this aspiration, and we certainly have differences of opinion on some issues from time to time, but our general goal is making this a moral and decent world.
Scriabin, I apologize for misunderstanding you.
I suggest that you make this point to Chaim on the Ask JTF program. I'm sure he'll agree with you. Chaim is a very moral and religious person who very much wants to see women AND men become moral again.
In any event, I'm going to ask Chaim to read this thread.
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G-d bless you Jimmy.
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This should prove to all of us that we should have the patience to fully explain things to our fellow JTFers. Getting angry and fighting with our fellow JTFers is foolish. We are part of JTF because we all basically want a more moral and decent world. We have different ways of expressing this aspiration, and we certainly have differences of opinion on some issues from time to time, but our general goal is making this a moral and decent world.
Well said! :)
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In this respect, I agree with you 100%. Excellent point. Did you also notice that women used to never go out of the house without covering their hair? And so did the men. People were very respectible then. I definetly appreciate your rational approach on this, and these are the type of conversations and debates I enjoy and learn from. Thanks.
Thank you, TANIA.
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It is equally degenerate for men to have pre-marital sex as it is for women.
I will tell you more: it is degenerate to condemn abortion without first condemning pre-marital sex as the most probable cause of it.
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Jeffguy has probably the best post of this thread...
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I will tell you more: it is degenerate to condemn abortion without first condemning pre-marital sex as the most probable cause of it.
Good point. Also, have you all noticed how it's always the purveyors of moral filth like Bob Guccione (publisher of Penthouse), Hugh Heffner (Playboy) and Bill Clinton who are pro abortion? These are people who either whore around, or encourage other men to do so. Naturally, they are for abortion, as they want to remove the consequences of their degenerate behavior. They want women to be ready, willing and always available.
I'll give you an analogy. Notice that when you go bowling, you do one round, and you make strike down a few pins while you're at it. Right after you're done, the knocked down pins are automatically cleared out of the way, and new pins are set up in perfect order. That's how I see abortion -- clearing the pins (in this case, the baby) so that the player can start over again.
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I will tell you more: it is degenerate to condemn abortion without first condemning pre-marital sex as the most probable cause of it.
Good point. Also, have you all noticed how it's always the purveyors of moral filth like Bob Guccione (publisher of Penthouse), Hugh Heffner (Playboy) and Bill Clinton who are pro abortion? These are people who either whore around, or encourage other men to do so. Naturally, they are for abortion, as they want to remove the consequences of their degenerate behavior. They want women to be ready, willing and always available.
I'll give you an analogy. Notice that when you go bowling, you do one round, and you make strike down a few pins while you're at it. Right after you're done, the knocked down pins are automatically cleared out of the way, and new pins are set up in perfect order. That's how I see abortion -- clearing the pins (in this case, the baby) so that the player can start over again.
What is horrifying is that some people actually think of abortion that way. Isn't it sad.
I don't see how you can ever get over having an abortion - for any reason - even if to save the life of the mother. It can never just be wiped away.
The people who can do this are really are degenerate.
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What is horrifying is that some people actually think of abortion that way. Isn't it sad.
I don't see how you can ever get over having an abortion - for any reason - even if to save the life of the mother. It can never just be wiped away.
The people who can do this are really are degenerate.
Abortion is the central platform of Feminism. "Its my body and I have the right to do what I want with it."
Mexican and Arab women don't have abortions.
White Woman have been killing their children for more than thirty years now.
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What is horrifying is that some people actually think of abortion that way. Isn't it sad.
I don't see how you can ever get over having an abortion - for any reason - even if to save the life of the mother. It can never just be wiped away.
The people who can do this are really are degenerate.
Abortion is the central platform of Feminism. "Its my body and I have the right to do what I want with it."
Mexican and Arab women don't have abortions.
White Woman have been killing their children for more than thirty years now.
I think you should start with the fact that Arab women don't have pre-marital sex.