JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dr. Dan on June 13, 2007, 12:20:46 AM
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I wrote this in response to Jsullivan's point of view of Imerica...but feel like it belongs as subject on its own. (now i see my demotions increasing...hehe)
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Jsullivan...i have a lot of respect for you and I think you are a great guy.
You make it like Imerica is a conspiracy theory...I don't see it...Rather, she is misguided and hates those that generalize about hating certain groups and races. SHe finds us to be fascinating and that's why she's here as a poster. She is not FBI, she is not a Muslim lover... She likes peace...she has a certain way of approaching it. I disagree with the way she does it because the way she does it is counterproductive to the very enemy which tries to kill us and destory my way of life and your way of life and her way of life.
I do agree in principle on one thing that she is trying to argue in so many words: (and this is my gripe with the jtf forum and some of its extremist posters)
I think a lot of us sound like a bunch of monkeys and a bunch of hate mongerers. We hate blacks we hate mexicans we hate illegal aliens. We are thoughtless on what we all post...we are xenophobic...etc... Basically we talk like Chaim talks..and we shouldn't talk like Chaim because we aren't Chaim and Chaim can only be Chaim because he can defend what he says and admit when he is wrong when he realizes he's wrong. Anyone else who tries to be like him, just gets frustrated when Imerica steps in...My answer is, don't be Chaim.
Come on guys.. we have to stop hating specific groups of people even if 95% are evil. We should say that we hate murderers, we hate robbers, we hate sluts, we hate idol worshippers, we hate rap music, we hate nazis, we hate one-world thinking, we hate disrespctful, we hate when people who come to this country do not even bother to learn english, we hate liberalism and communism etc... We shoudl talk about hating actions and not people in addition to the youtube videos...When we start referring to Blacks as being animals, which they aren't, we look like a bunch of gorillas ourselves. We will not build a mass movement for sounding like a bunch of monkeys..because any lay person will not understand us. Anyone who doesn't look up Rabbi Meir Kahane and observe his eloquence will think Torah Judaism is a farse. Rather, if we say, that we hate murderers and all kinds of bad actions, all people will recognize that as true...and then possibly join us....but if we say we hate blacks or mexicans...less quality people will join us...and we all know that we don't hate all blacks and hate all mexicans....but lay people who watch QPTV, will think we do...and I sure as heck don't hate all blacks and mexicans...i actually like blacks and mexicans...I like the good blacks and good mexicans..the ones who are nice and jolly and respectful and cool and love humanity themselves and care free. I hate bad blacks and bad mexicans..the ones who are lazy that have chips on their shoulder that blame everyone else for their problems and do nothing about it who are disrespectful who steal who murder who sound like Al Sharpton or Louis fraaaakakakak....anyway you all got my jist.
(accidently clicked edit, sorry danny)
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Dannycookies, in the end you will see that these beasts are evil and a stinking 20 dollar crack whore who comes on here and calls Chaim a criminal doesn't deserve kind words. She supports Islam so Dannycookies rethink your criticism. Concentrate on what we agree on and remember we are fighting evil.
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I just read what Jimmy wrote about Imerica. It is 100% correct. Danny, are you a miggerlover now? ;) ;D ;D ;D
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Dannycookies, in the end you will see that these beasts are evil and a stinking 20 dollar crack whore who comes on here and calls Chaim a criminal doesn't deserve kind words. She supports Islam so Dannycookies rethink your criticism. Concentrate on what we agree on and remember we are fighting evil.
she's not a 20 dollar crachwhore. And she had a lasp of stupidity comparing chaim to Osama..
and she deserves to be criticized for being so ignorant, so don't get me wrong on that.
we are fighting evil...but if we are goign to get more people to fight evil with us, we have approach it a little bit better...just forget about Imerica for a second...we have to think about how to say things properly...lest we look as bad as all the monkeys that are out there..
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Danny, if it makes you feel better I will say that I do not know that many evil Mexicans firsthhand. However, that's because I don't associate with them much. The people on my street are okay... the wetbacks don't rob their neigbors as far as I can see or do overtly evil things like that--that I know of. Certainly the fact that they are leading an immoral lifestyle by being here illegally and sucking off the taxpayer is bad enough.
The other Mexicans I know primarily are at church, and at least some of those do appear to be noble people, but I would never assume them to be representative.
Primarily, Danny, however, I think you need to forget about evil dreck. You will find that when righteous blacks and Hispanics come to our forum (like Cosmokramer and Hail Columbia) they are treated just great. You can see that firsthand.
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I just read what Jimmy wrote about Imerica. It is 100% correct. Danny, are you a miggerlover now? ;) ;D ;D ;D
didn't i say i loved good black people? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Danny, if it makes you feel better I will say that I do not know that many evil Mexicans firsthhand. However, that's because I don't associate with them much. The people on my street are okay... the wetbacks don't rob their neigbors as far as I can see or do overtly evil things like that--that I know of. Certainly the fact that they are leading an immoral lifestyle by being here illegally and sucking off the taxpayer is bad enough.
The other Mexicans I know primarily are at church, and at least some of those do appear to be noble people, but I would never assume them to be representative.
Primarily, Danny, however, I think you need to forget about evil dreck. You will find that when righteous blacks and Hispanics come to our forum (like Cosmokramer and Hail Columbia) they are treated just great. You can see that firsthand.
Chaimfan, I do see everything that you say...we do treat all of these people very well and love them. But when we give our message out to the public, they need to know that all the time. And when we talk about and post things, we need think before we post something that may be viewed as hateful. And if we are about to post somethign that will come off to be hateful, we need to create a habit of doing disclaimers.
btw, another promote for you... :)
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And she had a lasp of stupidity comparing chaim to Osama..
and she deserves to be criticized for being so ignorant, so don't get me wrong on that.
No, she has an infallible track record of attacking Chaim, and defending black Nazis like Sharpton and Jackson, and defending Muslim Nazis, and attacking legitimate black leaders like Alan Keyes. If she is stupid, she is mighty selective in her stupidity.
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Listen, Imerica is a crack whore. I bet when she is not calling Chaim a criminal and supporting Osama she is selling herself to big shvartza beasts. Dannycookies, we need to be cruel to our enemies. You should be praising Jimmy not finding stupid things to pick his brain with.
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Dannycookies I know you are a great guy and sometimes the desire to be kind to people ends up causing trouble. Lets just attack these shvartza chayos and muslim beasts.
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dannycookie57, Jimmy was 100% right. I don't see how it relates to hating all blacks, though.
I agree with a lot of what you said. I don't know if I'd give so much credit to Imerica who bashed us openly on YouTube and then pulled her kids into it, but I know what you are saying.
Now, if a group of people are 95% evil... I think it's completely justified to use "membership" to that group as criteria to judge. We have to be realistic.
And race has nothing to do with it... like Chaim said on the last Ask JTF... the culture has everything to do with it. We love black Jews who are real Jews, for example.
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I just promoted you too, Danny. You are a good mod. Still, I think that you need to realize Erica for who she is. Righteous blacks don't associate with people like Erica any more than righteous whites associate with Hal Turner and Ron Paul. Downwithislam and Jimmy are absolutely correct that people like Erica are wicked and want to destroy whites and Jews.
Righteous blacks and Hispanics know that they are always welcome among Kahanists. Did Cosmokramer fear being looked down on for being black at any moment?
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And she had a lasp of stupidity comparing chaim to Osama..
and she deserves to be criticized for being so ignorant, so don't get me wrong on that.
No, she has an infallible track record of attacking Chaim, and defending black Nazis like Sharpton and Jackson, and defending Muslim Nazis, and attacking legitimate black leaders like Alan Keyes. If she is stupid, she is mighty selective in her stupidity.
She does attack Chaim a lot and also this forum.
I don't see her defending Sharpton or Jackson...i mean she isn't as outspoken as we are..and she shoudl be..but she doesn't defend them
So, she doesn't like ALan Keyes because he's too right wing for her...that makes her misguided..not evil.
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Does she attack Sharpton in the same way she does Keyes? Not even close!
No, she at the most will say "well, they don't speak for me". Has she ever said anything negative or critical about the black Nazis?
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yeah and don't let her kid you, she probably had that little black child out of wedlock and just lied to make herself more palatable. She knows how dangerous black males generally are and yet continues to make them look like heroes. I personally witnessed that kurva write a vicious comment saying that the real terrorists aren't the muslims. Who knows what the hell she was saying.
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Listen, Imerica is a crack whore. I bet when she is not calling Chaim a criminal and supporting Osama she is selling herself to big shvartza beasts. Dannycookies, we need to be cruel to our enemies. You should be praising Jimmy not finding stupid things to pick his brain with.
imerica looks like a crack whore, but she isn't one..highly unlikely.
she does not support osama bin ladin
she doesn't sell herself to big black men
we DO however need to be cruel to our enemies...but our enemies are PLO, Fata, Hamas, Ahmednejad, Muslims, anyone who is anti-Jewish or anti-Israel, anyone is anti-west, nazis...
Imerica just sounds annoying, being cruel to her only makes her stronger and sound more right than people like us...unfortunately. If ever watch Rabbi Meir Kahane...oh, he's so good on teh way he responds to his critics...we should learn to be argue like him in eloquent fashion...nto calling people liek Imerica crackwhores. That kind of talk will not take us far.
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I remember the exact quote, Down. You are absolutely right. People like Erica are the real terrorists.
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Dannycookies I know you are a great guy and sometimes the desire to be kind to people ends up causing trouble. Lets just attack these shvartza chayos and muslim beasts.
you're right...being too kind can cause trouble...therefore, I will be kind because it is who I am...but you do what seems right to you...
i'm going to stick with attacking muslim beasts...and evil people irregardless of their race, religion, or creed...it just makes more sense that way. when 9/11 happened, it wasn't the black's fault..it was islam's fault...after that, I didn't hate blacks anymore...
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dannycookie57, Jimmy was 100% right. I don't see how it relates to hating all blacks, though.
I agree with a lot of what you said. I don't know if I'd give so much credit to Imerica who bashed us openly on YouTube and then pulled her kids into it, but I know what you are saying.
Now, if a group of people are 95% evil... I think it's completely justified to use "membership" to that group as criteria to judge. We have to be realistic.
And race has nothing to do with it... like Chaim said on the last Ask JTF... the culture has everything to do with it. We love black Jews who are real Jews, for example.
What Jimmy said doesn't relate to all blacks..didn't mean to make it look like that.
I disagree wtih the percentage theory. I don't think it is right to justify membership to a group to judge them. Maybe we can do it with Islam because we know what is written in the Koran. Maybe we can do it with a specific church or synogogue..or political group... But to a nation or a race...i dn't think it is right. especially if we are going to become a mass movement. People will get turned off to us..and smart decent people will get turned off to it. In this day in age, politicaly correctness is instilled in the vast majority of peoples' hearts...and to a certain degree, political correctness is a good thing...but it has gotten worse in teh last 10 years...so we have to keep the good of politcial correctness and eliminate the bad. We need to talk more about evil behavior and not attach it to a race or nation. We are goign to attract the wrong people here if we do that.
Like i said, I know what jtf stands for...but Joe Shmo doesn't when he watches Chaim on Youtube or comes on this forum when we post things thoughtlessly.
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But Danny, nobody just makes threads titled "I Hate Blacks". This is an issue right now ONLY because a very EVIL black, Erica, insists on stirring the pot on our forum.
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Does she attack Sharpton in the same way she does Keyes? Not even close!
No, she at the most will say "well, they don't speak for me". Has she ever said anything negative or critical about the black Nazis?
does she have to outright and say it out of the blue? She said it already that she doesn't liek waht al, louis and jessie do...but it seems like it isn't good enough...i can't see why.
but yes, she attacks us and she is dead wrong in her logic...calling her names doesn't make her wiser...it makes her look more right. We have to learn to be eloquent like Rabbi Meir Kahane.
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yeah and don't let her kid you, she probably had that little black child out of wedlock and just lied to make herself more palatable. She knows how dangerous black males generally are and yet continues to make them look like heroes. I personally witnessed that kurva write a vicious comment saying that the real terrorists aren't the muslims. Who knows what the hell she was saying.
actually i only watched her first response to chaim's video on youtube..didn't bother wasting my time with teh rest of teh stuff she did.
Honestly, she comes from a different planet than us...she is an alien that landed on our planet...it's fine to be hostile if she's being hostile...but when we argue with her....we need to, at the same time make her understand our planet andour people for the good that we are...eh..but that's a hopeless cause :laugh:
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I asked her to condemn these leaders and she refused. She certainly did not refuse to condemn Chaim or Alan Keyes.
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But Danny, nobody just makes threads titled "I Hate Blacks". This is an issue right now ONLY because a very EVIL black, Erica, insists on stirring the pot on our forum.
do what you gotta do...but think about the way you are doing it...
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I asked her to condemn these leaders and she refused. She certainly did not refuse to condemn Chaim or Alan Keyes.
that's because you were telling her to do waht you commanded...she doesn't want to be told waht to do and waht to say...that's why she didn't do it. Rather, it would have been better to write, "Do you condemn al jessie, louis?"
you shoulnd't have written, "...then condemn al, jessie, and louis (to prove yourself)"
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I don't think it is right to justify membership to a group to judge them. Maybe we can do it with Islam because we know what is written in the Koran. Maybe we can do it with a specific church or synogogue..or political group... But to a nation or a race...i dn't think it is right.
What does the Bible say about the Canaanites, Amorites, and the Medianites? These are races.
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I don't think it is right to justify membership to a group to judge them. Maybe we can do it with Islam because we know what is written in the Koran. Maybe we can do it with a specific church or synogogue..or political group... But to a nation or a race...i dn't think it is right.
What does the Bible say about the Canaanites, Amorites, and the Medianites? These are races.
Thought that cannanites, amorites, midianites, amalekites, edomites, israelites were all nations...
race is a genetic thing...like Hindus, Asian, African, Caucasian
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And she had a lasp of stupidity comparing chaim to Osama..
Could you please provide a link to where she wrote this, and as far as I am concerned anyone who says such a thing can go to hell.
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And she had a lasp of stupidity comparing chaim to Osama..
Could you please provide a link to where she wrote this, and as far as I am concerned anyone who says such a thing can go to hell.
go on page 3 or 4 on the Osama thread right below this one..she actually does do a comparison that is really muffed up...and it pissed off everyone...
except i kind of knew what she was getting at..just poorly executed..that's why i said she had a lasp of stupidity...as you can see, I don't get angry very easily.
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Listen, Imerica is a crack whore. I bet when she is not calling Chaim a criminal and supporting Osama she is selling herself to big shvartza beasts. Dannycookies, we need to be cruel to our enemies. You should be praising Jimmy not finding stupid things to pick his brain with.
imerica looks like a crack whore, but she isn't one..highly unlikely.
she does not support osama bin ladin
she doesn't sell herself to big black men
we DO however need to be cruel to our enemies...but our enemies are PLO, Fata, Hamas, Ahmednejad, Muslims, anyone who is anti-Jewish or anti-Israel, anyone is anti-west, nazis...
Imerica just sounds annoying, being cruel to her only makes her stronger and sound more right than people like us...unfortunately. If ever watch Rabbi Meir Kahane...oh, he's so good on teh way he responds to his critics...we should learn to be argue like him in eloquent fashion...nto calling people liek Imerica crackwhores. That kind of talk will not take us far.
I'm going to agree with all but one part of this post. I don't look like a crackwhore, danny. But I can get kind of annoying. I'm not a team player. I sometimes veer off to the side in an effort to make myself clear, but fail miserably at it. That's why I apologize a lot for my misunderstandings here.
I honestly think that if Allen and judea hadn't invited me here to ask Chaim questions, I wouldn't have come. But I'm here now, in the middle of the wolf den, speaking my mind. Oh, well.
I've called people names here after I've been called names but I still did what I speak out against. I let some of you get so deep under my skin that I don't see you as people in cyber space but like people I'd meet on the street. And I just want to say that I'm elated that I haven't met some of you. lol Who knows what that meeting would be like? Fisticuffs all over the place.
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I asked her to condemn these leaders and she refused. She certainly did not refuse to condemn Chaim or Alan Keyes.
I don't like being commanded to do something. I've been raised already and don't need another mother or father for that matter to demand me to do or say anything. However I've said over and over again that I don't support those so-called leaders even before you called me out to denounce them. I wouldn't vote for them, I wouldn't support their cause (because the entire cause has been lost due to their ignorance and vile attitudes toward Jewish people). I DID retract a statement I made about Farrakhan when I found out that while he attended some of the events for job programs, he didn't do anything in that relm to help anyone. Nor does Sharpton. Jackson is the lesser of the three evils but his racism makes him just as guilty, dispite the fact that his organization sponsors job fairs in the black community. I just don't like them...and I don't have to. And I really don't have to like Chaim or Alan Keyes either.
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I just read what Jimmy wrote about Imerica. It is 100% correct. Danny, are you a miggerlover now? ;) ;D ;D ;D
didn't i say i loved good black people? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I gave you a point when I wrote that, by the way. :)
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I agree with Danny. We need to be clearer on why we dislike certain groups of people, and emphasize that it's not due to the color of their skin, but their actions.
Calling Erica names is pointless, and only makes us look bad, especially since she's been polite on this forum. So if you disagree with her, use facts to back up your assertions.
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I too agree with danny (thinking of changing my nick to D.C.57.F ;D ;))
Remember the story of Abraham, defending the people of Sdom and Amora, just because there might be
a small hint of righteous Zadikim in there.
About the foul language. I don't want to sound like a 2nd grade teacher, but, people use bad language
(*Imerica probably has a child out of wedlock*, etc.) when they don't have any real or relevant thing to say.
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On the one hand, I do agree with dannycookie57 that one should hate and denounce a certain reprehensible behavior, not a group of people. On the other, the fact that a certain group of people exhibits a given behavior disproportionately is significant in itself. And somehow it has to be addressed. I'm thinking of arabs, for example. It's hard for me to feel love towards them, although I try to be fair-minded.
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God bless you, dannycookie. You took the words right outta my mouth. :)
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Basically we talk like Chaim talks..and we shouldn't talk like Chaim because we aren't Chaim and Chaim can only be Chaim because he can defend what he says and admit when he is wrong when he realizes he's wrong. Anyone else who tries to be like him, just gets frustrated when Imerica steps in...My answer is, don't be Chaim.
Hello dannycookie57, and good day to you.
I've read over the original thread and question, and I see points in what both you and Jimmy are asserting. I too get disheartened when I see some of the language used by the forum members when it comes to Imerica, and others, and I feel as if stronger cases could be made without the constant need for diatribe. I believe Jimmy is correct in his conclusion that Imerica will ultimately be an enemy to the cause, but I personally believe in my heart that Imerica has been brainwashed to such a degree, and is so dominated and driven by her emotions, that it would be virtually impossible to change her mind on any issue. Her views aren't rooted in a conscious malice, and that needs to be acknowledged.
Facts aren't what ultimately form her ideas, they're secondary to her. What she believes is right via her own personal set of moral principles is her ultimate and final appeal. In this respect, she shares a common trait with many women (no offense to the ladies of the forum) who likewise tend to form their opinion based on emotion, personality, and other abstract things. In a case like this if you wish to change her mind (which I believe is impossible) it has to be without rancor and with kindness, otherwise she will psychologically disregard you. If you don't wish to change her mind and just wish to refute her then it must be with steady cold facts; constantly rebutting her strawmen and tangent arguments for the sake of the readers.
Danny, ultimately I think you offered a great piece of advice in the portion I quoted. None of us are Chaim, and it's high time some individuals stop trying to write like he speaks regardless of the setting or context. Chaim, and Rav Kahane ZT"L always considered context, and used different language for different situations. Chaim's shows consist of strong rhetoric and fiery language to move and rally people to action, and draw attention. Likewise Kahane's speeches in Hebrew in Israel were also similar in their blistering oratory. But look at Kahane on American television interviews, and it's a different story -- he was calm, charismatic, and smooth. Look at Chaim Ben Pesach on the 'Save Israel' show with Charlie Bernhaut available on Allen-T's SamanthaTheCat account -- he was completely different there because Chaim, unlike some here, appreciates context. He was cool, calm, and collected, and dominated the format like a seasoned spokesperson. I encourage everyone here to watch those videos of Chaim, and take a lesson from there, myself included.
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G-d bless you, dannycookie. You took the words right outta my mouth. :)
No, Gd bless you, thuderbolt! 8)
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You wrote all that just to get promoted, didn't you! :laugh:
Thanks for the comforting post.
Basically we talk like Chaim talks..and we shouldn't talk like Chaim because we aren't Chaim and Chaim can only be Chaim because he can defend what he says and admit when he is wrong when he realizes he's wrong. Anyone else who tries to be like him, just gets frustrated when Imerica steps in...My answer is, don't be Chaim.
Hello dannycookie57, and good day to you.
I've read over the original thread and question, and I see points in what both you and Jimmy are asserting. I too get disheartened when I see some of the language used by the forum members when it comes to Imerica, and others, and I feel as if stronger cases could be made without the constant need for diatribe. I believe Jimmy is correct in his conclusion that Imerica will ultimately be an enemy to the cause, but I personally believe in my heart that Imerica has been brainwashed to such a degree, and is so dominated and driven by her emotions, that it would be virtually impossible to change her mind on any issue. Her views aren't rooted in a conscious malice, and that needs to be acknowledged.
Facts aren't what ultimately form her ideas, they're secondary to her. What she believes is right via her own personal set of moral principles is her ultimate and final appeal. In this respect, she shares a common trait with many women (no offense to the ladies of the forum) who likewise tend to form their opinion based on emotion, personality, and other abstract things. In a case like this if you wish to change her mind (which I believe is impossible) it has to be without rancor and with kindness, otherwise she will psychologically disregard you. If you don't wish to change her mind and just wish to refute her then it must be with steady cold facts; constantly rebutting her strawmen and tangent arguments for the sake of the readers.
Danny, ultimately I think you offered a great piece of advice in the portion I quoted. None of us are Chaim, and it's high time some individuals stop trying to write like he speaks regardless of the setting or context. Chaim, and Rav Kahane ZT"L always considered context, and used different language for different situations. Chaim's shows consist of strong rhetoric and fiery language to move and rally people to action, and draw attention. Likewise Kahane's speeches in Hebrew in Israel were also similar in their blistering oratory. But look at Kahane on American television interviews, and it's a different story -- he was calm, charismatic, and smooth. Look at Chaim Ben Pesach on the 'Save Israel' show with Charlie Bernhaut available on Allen-T's SamanthaTheCat account -- he was completely different there because Chaim, unlike some here, appreciates context. He was cool, calm, and collected, and dominated the format like a seasoned spokesperson. I encourage everyone here to watch those videos of Chaim, and take a lesson from there, myself included.
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Thought that cannanites, amorites, midianites, amalekites, edomites, israelites were all nations...
race is a genetic thing...like Hindus, Asian, African, Caucasian
Danny, we all meant nations. Nobody here literally categorizes people on appearance. Blacks as a ethnic group (ethnicity=culture) are evil, not blacks as a phenotype.
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Thought that cannanites, amorites, midianites, amalekites, edomites, israelites were all nations...
race is a genetic thing...like Hindus, Asian, African, Caucasian
Danny, we all meant nations. Nobody here literally categorizes people on appearance. Blacks as a ethnic group (ethnicity=culture) are evil, not blacks as a phenotype.
I know that jtf doesn't stand for judging people based on their phenotypes...We know that doing that is a sin and that we judge cultures based on good and evil..
However, lay people don't know that...they don't understand it..and I know that when we post about blacks we don't mean dark skinned people, but blacks who are gang bangers and lazy...however, lay people don't see it that way...our message has to sound more P.C. (unfortunatley and fortunately), on this forum and elsewhere if we are to become a mass movement...Or for that matter our other ideals of Torah Judaism to integrate into other movements to save America, Israel, Europe, and the rest of the world (if possible, Gd willing)