JTF.ORG Forum
Israel => Save Israel => Topic started by: IsraeliGovtAreKapos on January 12, 2012, 10:30:27 AM
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http://www.hakolhayehudi.co.il/?p=22664
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/390732_317988768242051_100000927927066_998360_403922599_n.jpg)
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I agree with you Ron.... I am beginning to reconsider any money I give to charity which may help the wicked Israeli government and their SS henchmen. I would find it hard not to spit on an IDF soldier if one were in my presence knowing I would go to jail for such an expression of my hatred for Stormtroopers like these...
It hurts me to think like this but I am beginning to realize that the wicked in Israel are determined to destroy the Jewish spirit.
Even 'mainstream' Jewish media outlets are ignoring the fact that babies and pregnant women were marched at 3AM barefoot to Kiryat Arba {according to A7} in the freezing cold {36 degrees F}. I am flabbergasted the entirely biased report I read at the Jewish Telegraphic Agency which had the gall to call the settlement an 'Illegal Outpost' which is a very biased and factually incorrect statement. There is nothing illegal about them...
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/151684#.Tw8eqBBSQYo
NGO: Who Evicted Children into Freezing Night?
Legal Forum for Land of Israel wants to know who abused children's rights during Mitzpe Avichai eviction.
(http://www.israelnationalnews.com/static/Resizer.ashx/news/250/168/315270.jpg)
The Legal Forum for the Land of Israel has asked the Police Commissioner and the IDF Central Command Head to find those responsible for the cruel eviction of families from community of Mitzpe Avichai last night.
Attorney Avital Tzachor, on behalf of the Forum, said in a letter to the police and army chiefs that the eviction took place at 2:00 a.m., and that security forces broke into homes while shouting, took pregnant women, children and sleeping babies out of their beds, and pushed them out of their homes into the near-freezing night.
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As a former IDF officer, I am shocked!
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Here is the video documenting the abuse of the children by the IDF:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPc9MtlT_g4
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I think I've stumbled onto the Hamas and Hezbollah propaganda area of JTF.
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I think I've stumbled onto the Hamas and Hezbollah propaganda area of JTF.
What do you mean by this? You are a new member here and you are commenting without understanding the purpose of JTF. We are followers of Rabbi Kahane who stood firmly against the liberal leftists who are controlling Israel currently. These 'leaders' are giving more and more Jewish land while harming the Jewish people. Many confirmed reports of synagogue destructions have occurred in recent history. This is what makes us all so very angry at these foul leaders.
The Israeli government is destroying Jewish homes in the territories of Judea and Samaria. JTF proudly supports the proud Jewish heros who are settling in the historic homeland of the Jewish people.
Do you have any questions?
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I think I've stumbled onto the Hamas and Hezbollah propaganda area of JTF.
Who smashed the synagouges of Gaza and Northern Samaria? Who turned the Sinai, Gaza and Northern Samaria into Islamic Judenrein? Who broke the bones of Jewish fathers whose houses were crushed into a memory? Not Hizballah and Hamas, but Israel and its antisemitic skinhead militia.
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http://www.hakolhayehudi.co.il/?p=22664
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/390732_317988768242051_100000927927066_998360_403922599_n.jpg)
Wow. Very powerful.
A message that needs to be spread.
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I think I've stumbled onto the Hamas and Hezbollah propaganda area of JTF.
Oh so you think its ok to destroy shuls and trample Torah scrolls (God forbid)?
Or are you saying that hamas and hezbollah demand respect for sacred Jewish property? I don't think they do. But we should.
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I get it the IDF sucks at times. But who keeps the Egyptians and Syrians and Jordanians from crossing the border and massacring Jews. If not for the IDF Israel would have been destroyed in 1948 or 1967 and there would be no argument about Jews in Judea and Samaria. I still don't know what your alternative is to Israel and the IDF.
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I get it the IDF sucks at times. But who keeps the Egyptians and Syrians and Jordanians from crossing the border and massacring Jews. If not for the IDF Israel would have been destroyed in 1948 or 1967 and there would be no argument about Jews in Judea and Samaria. I still don't know what your alterative is to Israel and the IDF.
In my opinion there are some things the IDF does which is good and somethings which are bad...actually very bad...and the biggest one is losing wars that they should be winning...but it's not the IDF that is the problem..it's the leadership and the higher ups in government that make the terrible sinful decisions. The IDF, otherwise, are Israeli citizens required to go to the army...I don't have fault with them except when they take orders that are self hating and self destructing...such that Ron posted on this thread. And when the IDF does these things, it is horrendous and evil. And the ones I would curse are the leadership who command these things to happen as well as the IDF soldiers who follow those orders.
And I bless the IDF soldiers who take a stand against taking those orders even if it means jail time.
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If a Jew destroys a synagogue, along with Torahs, then that Jew has gone over to the dark side. That Jew has become a Nazi and should be treated as such. Of course, it is just so painful to contemplate. May G-d prevent this from every happening again.
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I don't agree with attacking the IDF as a whole, for tactical and ideological reasons. however, the people who run the IDF deserve every condemnation under the sun.
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Do Jews have any self respect whatsoever? Will they allow themselves to be used and abused by anyone and anything as long as that things comes out and says to the world, "we are aligned with the Jews, we love the Jews, we are your friend" or in this case "we are one of you and we protect you"? Are honor, public accolades, and the feeling of being "loved" more important than the sacred values we have lived and died for and cherished for centuries?
Tell me what is the benefit to donating or giving anything to the state of israel? Shouldn't we as Jews demand our rights and to be treated with respect, and our brothers in the settlements to be treated with respect or else not give anything? Why would it be a blank check? At this point, any donation should be contingent on a cessation to the persecution of Jews. In other words no more donations. We all know what is going on and what they are doing.
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Do Jews have any self respect whatsoever? Will they allow themselves to be used and abused by anyone and anything as long as that things comes out and says to the world, "we are aligned with the Jews, we love the Jews, we are your friend" or in this case "we are one of you and we protect you"? Are honor, public accolades, and the feeling of being "loved" more important than the sacred values we have lived and died for and cherished for centuries?
Tell me what is the benefit to donating or giving anything to the state of israel? Shouldn't we as Jews demand our rights and to be treated with respect, and our brothers in the settlements to be treated with respect or else not give anything? Why would it be a blank check? At this point, any donation should be contingent on a cessation to the persecution of Jews. In other words no more donations. We all know what is going on and what they are doing.
The only donations to Israel that I specifically give is VJA...I don't see the point of giving to the state...it's not like they are a poor country.
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But who keeps the Egyptians and Syrians and Jordanians from crossing the border and massacring Jews. I still don't know
Dude, who made a joke out of the northern border, getting as far as Tel Aviv, in May-June 2011? Nicaraguans?
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if not for the idf the arabs would invade and kill all the jews in judea and samaria. this can't be debated, its a fact.
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if not for the idf the arabs would invade and kill all the jews in judea and samaoria. this can't be debated, its a fact.
However, in my opinion, arm the settlers with weapons and let them protect themselves...I believe they would be much more effective than the idf protection. That's only because they wouldn't fight back with political correctness. There are no innocent civilians when fighting the Muslim enemy. And the Hitler loving Muslims are the biggest cowards when Jews fight like this.
I would put my money on the settlers if in this situation versus the current idf.
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thats ridiculous. how would the settlers defend themselves against egyptian, syrian or jordanian tanks and artillery and jets? they would all be killed. the muslims are cowards and incompetent but they still would easily kill the jewish pioneers simply by massively outgunning them. israelis need to all stick together and not be divided.
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A catch-22 situation.
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thats ridiculous. how would the settlers defend themselves against egyptian, syrian or jordanian tanks and artillery and jets? they would all be killed. the muslims are cowards and incompetent but they still would easily kill the jewish pioneers simply by massively outgunning them. israelis need to all stick together and not be divided.
Just like when the Israelis were out gunned in 1948?
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Just like when the Israelis were out gunned in 1948?
You don't really want to rely on miracles do you? The settlers can handle a few Arab terrorists but not fully equipped armies.
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You don't really want to rely on miracles do you? The settlers can handle a few Arab terrorists but not fully equipped armies.
If they are armed well, they can defeat them. They will not fight nice like the idf.
If they only had rocks, stones, and prayer books, then they would be relying on miracles.
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Dude, who made a joke out of the northern border, getting as far as Tel Aviv, in May-June 2011? Nicaraguans?
Who put Judea and Samaria in Jewish hands? Who put together the incredible fighting force that saved the Jews of Israel in 1948 and 1967? You are good at putting down Israel and the IDF but you have still not explained how Jews will be able to live in Eretz Yisrael without the nation and the Army.
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If they are armed well, they can defeat them. They will not fight nice like the idf.
If they only had rocks, stones, and prayer books, then they would be relying on miracles.
Are they going to have their own Airforce and Navy? Are the Jews of Judea and Samaria going to in effect, have their own nations. The Egyptians do and they have the most modern and sophisticated weapons.
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I understand criticizing the IDF and Israeli leadership but saying don't support "Israel" as the poster suggests can probably be confusing for people.
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Are they going to have their own Airforce and Navy? Are the Jews of Judea and Samaria going to in effect, have their own nations. The Egyptians do and they have the most modern and sophisticated weapons.
You have to understand something. The mentality of these Muslim animals is not to put all of one's eggs in one basket and use a ton of air force to try and quash a bunch of Jewish settlers. Rather, they would think, "Ha! We'll get our rag tag team together and they can quash them easily." And sure enough, they make that move and they'll see what the small number settlers can do to their more numerous army men...
It's like this. Why didn't Russians attack Israel in 1948 to help the Arabs? Weren't they much more powerful? Because they saw how a much more outnumbered Israeli nation totally destroyed 7 surrounding Arab nation.
How do you think the slaves of Egypt were able to defeat the Cannanites and surrounding nations?
If the settlers were well armed they would win battles...and it would freak out the Arab enemies...and regular Israelis would see how they win battles and will demand the IDF to fight like the settlers...
It will take the settlers to show the rest of the ISraelis what it means to be a winning prideful Jew instead of a loser self hating woody allen Jew.
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I understand criticizing the IDF and Israeli leadership but saying don't support "Israel" as the poster suggests can probably be confusing for people.
It's bad PR if you ask me.
Better to make a comparative poster that the IDF leadership is weak and can't even defeat the Arab enemy...time to take Israel back in the hands of really proud Jews who know how to defeat the enemy.
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It's bad PR if you ask me.
Better to make a comparative poster that the IDF leadership is weak and can't even defeat the Arab enemy...time to take Israel back in the hands of really proud Jews who know how to defeat the enemy.
That could be good.
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the russians didn't attack because they didn't want to bring america into the conflict. both america and the soviets used israel and the arabs respectively to fight on their behalf.
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What do you mean by this? You are a new member here and you are commenting without understanding the purpose of JTF.
Actually I am not a new member, I have been a member since March 11, 2008, as Semper_Fi_Marine. I just lost my password, (until a few days ago) and also wanted a more appropriate name to fit the site.
What I meant in my reply was that I don't understand how you can say not to support Israel because of one news article you saw that was probably not true, but even if it was, it is no reason to stop supporting Israel. I'm sick of so-called Jews attacking Israel any chance they get, just because they feel that it makes them seem more compassionate. We Jews don't have a lot of worldly support these days and it would be stupid to start turning on each other. I LOVE and support Israel and the IDF with all of my heart and soul, nothing will ever change that.
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thats ridiculous. how would the settlers defend themselves against egyptian, syrian or jordanian tanks and artillery and jets? they would all be killed. the muslims are cowards and incompetent but they still would easily kill the jewish pioneers simply by massively outgunning them. israelis need to all stick together and not be divided.
Do you realize that 2/3 of the combat people in the idf are settlers?
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Do you realize that 2/3 of the combat people in the idf are settlers?
Why do they expel other settlers?
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Do you realize that 2/3 of the combat people in the idf are settlers?
That is why the premise of this whole thread is faulty. The idea that supporting the settlers means hating the IDF is not true. Most settlers support the IDF.
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Actually I am not a new member, I have been a member since March 11, 2008, as Semper_Fi_Marine. I just lost my password, (until a few days ago) and also wanted a more appropriate name to fit the site.
What I meant in my reply was that I don't understand how you can say not to support Israel because of one news article you saw that was probably not true, but even if it was, it is no reason to stop supporting Israel. I'm sick of so-called Jews attacking Israel any chance they get, just because they feel that it makes them seem more compassionate. We Jews don't have a lot of worldly support these days and it would be stupid to start turning on each other. I LOVE and support Israel and the IDF with all of my heart and soul, nothing will ever change that.
Listen...
I have supported Israel for many years. This is not one or two reports of destroyed Jewish homes and synagogues. There has been a long history of this happening. I have seen scenes from Gush Katif and Ammona which turn my stomach. That the IDF could have committed those atrocious acts makes me sick. The people whose homes and lives are destroyed by the actions of the IDF which obviously are commanded by people who have no love of the Jewish nation have every right to be angry. This government was elected with the mandate of not giving in to the left wing and the arabs and yet it has failed in its promise.
I join those who question the validity of using Jewish troops to evict Jewish dwellers in the land which Hashem gave us, and which we (Jewish people) have shed blood in defending.
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How can any Jewish troop in good conscience commit the act of desecrating the Torah? This is a question we must ask...
Did Moshe stand by as his fellow Jew was being beaten by the Egyptian task-master? Obviously not.... Did Moshe stand by as his fellow Jew was being beaten by a fellow Jew? No he didn't, and he did not stay quiet. This is why he had to flee Egypt because he feared a fellow Jew ratting him out.
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It's like this. Why didn't Russians attack Israel in 1948 to help the Arabs? Weren't they much more powerful? Because they saw how a much more outnumbered Israeli nation totally destroyed 7 surrounding Arab nation. <<
First of all the Russians were supportive, at least partially, of Israel in 1948. More to the point, the Jordanians did slaughter the residents of Gush Etzion who put up a heroic resistance to them before falling. I think the settlers could handle some terrorists but unless they were organized into an actual army with air power would have trouble dealing with the PA Nazis let alone the force of a real army like the Egyptians or Jordanians without the protection of the IDF.
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I definately would support an IDF which was more tolerant of religious soldiers and had a more patriotic view of the Jewish land. In the past I considered the IDF one of the greatest fighting forces in the middle east. I do believe that they have a technical superiority to the neighbors. But even with all the military might in the world, without righteousness it means nothing. Israels army will not succeed if it is used to hurt the so-called settlers of Judea and Samaria. I cannot support them in this, and Hashem will certainly not support them {as our Torah explains}.
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It's like this. Why didn't Russians attack Israel in 1948 to help the Arabs? Weren't they much more powerful? Because they saw how a much more outnumbered Israeli nation totally destroyed 7 surrounding Arab nation. <<
First of all the Russians were supportive, at least partially, of Israel in 1948.
But the Soviet Union supplied both Egypt and Syria with weapons in the Arab-Israeli War of 1967.
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That is why the premise of this whole thread is faulty. The idea that supporting the settlers means hating the IDF is not true. Most settlers support the IDF.
But they should not support something that canabalizes them. They should threaten to leave the IDF en masse, unless certain political goals are achieved.
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But the Soviet Union supplied both Egypt and Syria with weapons in the Arab-Israeli War of 1967.
Things changed between 1948 and 1967. Even our own George Washington warned against permanent alliances and most nations follow their own interests which can change over time.
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Why do they expel other settlers?
I don't think it's the combat units that are doing expulsions.
Of the small amount of soldiers who conscienciously objected and had to serve jailtime for refusing orders to expel Jews, I think they were all settlers. On the other hand, there probably are some settlers who carry out these types of evil orders because they have sick people misleading them such as Rabbi Shlomo Aviner, who instructed all his robot followers that they MUST OBEY and that destroying settlements is good because the Israeli regime can only do good.
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But they should not support something that canabalizes them. They should threaten to leave the IDF en masse, unless certain political goals are achieved.
Something to keep in mind is that the IDF is not a monolithic group. Much of the IDF is very pro settler. I visited an unauthorized outpost that might someday get destroyed by the IDF. In the meantime an IDF soldier is guarding it. The problem is the national political leadership is anti Jewish and anti Nationalist, at least the Minister of Defense.
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Something to keep in mind is that the IDF is not a monolithic group. Much of the IDF is very pro settler. I visited an unauthorized outpost that might someday get destroyed by the IDF. In the meantime an IDF soldier is guarding it. The problem is the national political leadership is anti Jewish and anti Nationalist, at least the Minister of Defense.
Yes, which is why I think it is a very potent political tool to unify the pro-settler people and call on them to join an effort to quit the army unless certain conditions are met. It would shock the country.
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I think a very good solution to this problem would be to expel all Arabs from Israeli land.
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The problem isn't the Jewish state in and of itself, which is a neutral institution, or even the satanically evil Israeli government, but the vast majority of Israelis who want (or tolerate) these pogroms in the name of "peace" and showing the world that they are "impartial".
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I understand criticizing the IDF and Israeli leadership but saying don't support "Israel" as the poster suggests can probably be confusing for people.
I agree with you that it looks bad to attack the state of Israel as an institution (rather than an individual regime) but most Israelis support this evil for various sick and brainwashed reasons.
Quite frankly most Israelis deserve whatever may happen to them. I don't agree with Ron a lot of the time but I can't really blame him on this topic.