JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Khan Krum on July 18, 2012, 07:46:25 PM
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Some while ago, Bibi refused to recognize the Holodomor (Ukrainian Genocide). The Holodomor was the soviet genocide by stalin (soviet hitler) done by soviets (Russian nazis). The only reason anyone would deny this unspeakable atrocity is because of commie loyalty. Russia is the leader in Holodomor-denial. Denying this tragedy is like Holocaust denial.
Worldwide recognition:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2b/Holodomor_genocide_recognition.PNG)
While in Ukraine under heroic former president Yushchenko was going to make a law banning Holodmor and Holocaust denial:
A draft law "On Amendments to the Criminal and the Procedural Criminal Codes of Ukraine" was submitted by President Viktor Yushchenko for consideration by the Ukrainian Parliament. The draft law envisages prosecution for public denial of the Holodomor Famine of 1932–1933 in Ukraine as a fact of genocide of the Ukrainian people, and of the Holocaust as the fact of genocide of the Jewish people.
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I believe that one reason that Israel doesn't recognize this tragedy is because the global narrative, it seems, is that the Jews perpetrated this genocide.
http://globalfire.tv/nj/09en/jews/holodomor.htm
Holodomor proves it once again: Jews were amongst the greatest mass murderers of all time
It all begun in 1917: "Every ordinary Russian faced a Jew as his judge and as his exe-cutioner. Where ever the Russian went, he met a Jew in a superior position to him." (Sonja Margolina, "Das Ende der Lügen" The End of the Lies, Siedler Publishing House, Berlin 1992, page 60) "The Bolshevik Revolution in Russia was the work of Jewish planning and Jewish dissatisfaction. Our Plan is to have a New World Order. What worked so wonderfully in Russia is going to become Reality for the whole world." (The American Hebrew Magazine, New York, Sep. 10, 1920) More than 50 Million people were murdered during this era under Jewish commissars. However, when nowadays timid Goyim try to bring these crimes, universally unique, to justice, Jews squeal "this is unfair, it incites interethnic hatred." However, forcing a 90 year-old innocent man (John Demjanjuk) on a stretcher into a stooge court-room in Germany, that is perfectly all right. Read on:
http://desip.igc.org/HolocaustAndHolodomor.html
Some Ukrainian accounts, and that of Muggeridge, who covered the holodomor for the Manchester Guardian, take the trouble to say that this mass starvation was imposed largely by Jews. Lazar M. Kaganovich is often identified as an architect of the policy. A photograph in Montefiore, Red Tsar, above, shows him personally searching a farm for concealed food. In Muggeridge’s novel Winter in Moscow (1934) he appears as Kokoshkin, “a Jew” and “Stalin’s chief lieutenant.”
In 2003 Levko Lukyanenko, the first Ukrainian ambassador to Canada, was said to have made an anti-Semitic embarrassment of himself on this subject. But see Orest Subtelny, Ukraine: A History, p. 363 (2d ed. 1994)(“Jews were . . . disproportionately prominent among the Bolsheviks, notably in their leadership, among their tax- and grain-gathering officials, and especially in the despised and feared. . . secret police [emphasis added]”); Montefiore, Red Tsar, above, p. 305 (as late as 1937, Jews accounted for only 5.7 percent of Soviet party members, but “formed a majority in the government” [emphasis added]); Yuri Slezkine, The Jewish Century, p. 254 (Princeton University Press, 2004)(the secret police was “one of the most Jewish of all Soviet institutions”); and Arno J. Mayer, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken?, p. 60 (1988)(“As of the late twenties . . . [a] disproportionate number of Jews came to hold high posts in the secret police and to serve as political commissars in the armed services. They. . . were. . . appointed to high-level and conspicuous positions which called for unimpeach-able political loyalty. . . ”). Mayer, a professor emeritus of history at Princeton, is himself Jewish, and had to flee the Nazis as a refugee.
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http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090623053805AAlGLcY
http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=160
JEWS WANT THE WORLD to believe that they have a monopoly on “Holocaust Remembrances.” But Ukraine’s President Viktor Yushchenko has thrown the Jews a curve by dedicating 2008 as “Ukrainian Holocaust Remembrance Year” Here.
This “holocaust remembrance” recalls the murder by forced starvation of *6 million* Ukrainian Christians by the Jewish Bolsheviks. The Ukrainians call this holocaust “Holodomor” which means “Famine-Genocide.” Of course the Zionist Jews deny it. Just like they deny all of their numerous crimes against humanity.
Historian Valentyn Moroz of the Institute for Historical Review wrote:
— “The Ukrainian village had long been recognized as the bastion of national traditions. The Bolsheviks sought to strike a fatal blow at the village structure because it was the lifespring of the vital national spirit.” — Here.
Indeed, Bolshevik Jews were the chief architects of the Ukrainian forced-famine which eliminated Ukrainian clergy and 6 million Ukrainian Orthodox Christians!
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There is some debate who was responsible for the deaths... But there is no comparison between even the supposed 'Holodomor' victims and the victims of the Shoah. The Shoah was an organized killing machine with gas chambers, mass transport, and troops shooting Jewish victims...
I STRONGLY disagree that this has anything to do with Bibi being a commie... And I disagree that it is tantamount to Holocaust denial.
The list of sites blaming this supposed atrocity on the Jews goes ON AND ON. It is so bad even antisemitic hate sites such as RENSE has articles blaming it on the Jews.
http://rense.com/general86/crdet.htm
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I do not even know what this was. But look at the map more then 50% of the world does not recognize this. Soo why pick on Netenyahu on this? Also by the way look at how we can't even spot Israel on the map, yett all the attention of the world is to it?
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I believe that one reason that Israel doesn't recognize this tragedy is because the global narrative, it seems, is that the Jews perpetrated this genocide.
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Muman, ignore those nazis. Ukrainians fought the nazis and soviets in wwii, and none of Ukrainian nationalists blame the Jews. Most people who blame Jews for the Holodomor are gayvid douce and American neo-nazis who capitalize on the suffering of the Ukrainians similar to Jews. Actual Ukrainians when they talk about the Holodomor say things like "We suffered a Holocaust of our own" or "Yes what happened to the Jews was horrible, and so was what happened to us". You can look up what Ukrainians say about the Holodomor and none of it is antisemitic. This come from neo-nazi pieces of sh** who have nothing to do with the Ukrainians. Besides commies will blame the Ukrainians for the Holocaust even though the UPA helped saved Jews.
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There is some debate who was responsible for the deaths... But there is no comparison between even the supposed 'Holodomor' victims and the victims of the Shoah. The Shoah was an organized killing machine with gas chambers, mass transport, and troops shooting Jewish victims...
Jeff Rense is a crack-smoking hippy who is a good "friend" (probably more than that) of Gayvid Douce. The other website you pointed to is also run by people who are pro-Arab pseudo-conservative nazis. I know many Ukrainians who would be disgusted by these.
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It is no wonder that Israel will ever recognize this antisemitic crap...
http://www.examiner.com/article/zionism-today-is-a-direct-result-of-holodomor-jewish-involvement-christian-genocide
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From what I know, the Ukrainians were extremely ant-Jewish. When the Nazis came in to the Ukrain many Jews thought that they were actually saved. Also many of the Ukrainians collaborated with the Nazis in the extermination of Jews.
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I do not even know what this was. But look at the map more then 50% of the world does not recognize this. Soo why pick on Netenyahu on this? Also by the way look at how we can't even spot Israel on the map, yett all the attention of the world is to it?
but why the Armenian genocide to be recognized by Israel and not the Holodomor? No, I do support recognizing the Armenian genocide, and we Bulgarians are brothers of Armenians and Turks did very horrible butchery. Also this harms Israel's image for Ukrainian nationalists. Ukrainians are split between commies who are in power and pro-Russia, anti-America and the nationalists who are against the Arab-Russian Oil Coalition. Even Putin now supports the Ukrainian Nationalists- Russians in Ukraine are f*cked.
Israel is in the same position as Ukraine (and Bulgaria):
Larger ethnic group (Russians, Turks, Arabs) have much larger country(s) (Russia, Turkey, List of ~20 Arab countries) than smaller ethnic group (Ukrainians, Bulgarians, Jews), but larger ethnic group is a minority in the smaller ethnic group's land (Russians in Ukraine, Turks in Bulgaria, "Palestinians").
The Ukrainian nationalists met with the fakestinian leader to express support only because they say they support everyone's right to self-determination as nationalists. But,they say they support same for Israel and have links with Yisrael Beitenu. They are neutral in Israel-"Palestinian" conflict. This will change if Yisrael Beiteinu is in the government of Israel.
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From what I know, the Ukrainians were extremely ant-Jewish. When the Nazis came in to the Ukrain many Jews thought that they were actually saved. Also many of the Ukrainians collaborated with the Nazis in the extermination of Jews.
Yes but the Ukrainian People's Army resisted nazis and soviets heroically. They were lead by Stefan Bandera who was a supporter of the Zionist movement and is a hero for the Ukrainians.
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This page of a website (http://www.dpcamps.org/jewsVsUkrainians2.html) is Ukrainian nationalists for the truth who want friendship with Jews. Ignore the one post by the neo-nazi pig about "stalin's Jews". stalin killed many Jews (although most victims were Ukrainians) like hitler killed many Ukrainians (although most victims were Jews).
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I really don't have much sympathy for the people of Ukraine. My family emigrated from Ukraine in 1900 due to constant persecution of the Jewish people in the Ukraine. Thank Hashem my families left that hell hole before the crepe hit the fan...
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I really don't have much sympathy for the people of Ukraine. My family emigrated from Ukraine in 1900 due to constant persecution of the Jewish people in the Ukraine. Thank Hashem my families left that hell hole before the crepe hit the fan...
It's a hellhole because of the Russians there, most of them are neo-nazis or commies or hate Jews and Ukrainians. They control the Ukrainian government now.
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It's a hellhole because of the Russians there, most of them are neo-nazis or commies or hate Jews and Ukrainians. They control the Ukrainian government now.
My family, on my fathers side, came from Uman, Ukraine... On my mothers side the family came from Poland.
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Khan,
Two years ago I started a thread on the topic of the Holodomor...
Here is the link:
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,51214.0.html
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but why the Armenian genocide to be recognized by Israel and not the Holodomor?
Israel is in the same position as Ukraine (and Bulgaria):
The Ukrainian nationalists met with the fakestinian leader to express support only because they say they support everyone's right to self-determination as nationalists. But,they say they support same for Israel and have links with Yisrael Beitenu. They are neutral in Israel-"Palestinian" conflict. This will change if Yisrael Beiteinu is in the government of Israel.
1) I don't know what this whole thing is about.
2) You say they support Arab Nazis okay.
3) Yisrael Beiteinu IS in the government. It holds a lot of power today.
4) I don't really care about Ukraine. I also hope Jews stop taking trips there thinking they are doing something great leaving Israel and visiting Rebbe Nachman's grave there (which is also the place of mass Jewish graves, which were butchered there, even before the latest holocaust).
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The particular ***hole who this Ukrainian attacks is a pro-fakestinian leftist.
24. California State University Dominguez Hills professor and author, Aaron Hass, perpetuates the myth that the Jews were the only ones who suffered; suffered the most, and especially, weren't helped by any other nationality. I took his class and lecture after lecture, he kept stating that the Jewish Holocaust (6 million) was the biggest genocide in history, ignoring the 7-10 million Stalin genocide of Ukrainians, even after I brought it up. In Hass' book, The Aftermath, Living with the Holocaust, he wrote that "Even the Palestinian Jews resented European Jews coming into Palestine," jealously guarding the precious hard-fought land and resources with other Jews.
Now I think this quote is a little objectionable because of how it focuses on the question of the severity of the Holocaust, but it shows that Ukrainians and Jews are being played like a violin by commies and fascists. commies on the Ukrainian side condemn Israel, fascists on the Ukrainian side deny the Holodomor and accuse Jews of genocide. commies on the Jewish side support Russians in Ukraine, and fascists on the Jewish side (like the b**** who wrote for Pat Buchanan) "confess" their people's made-up crimes. These idiots undermine Judæo-Ukrainian friendship and will continue hostility.
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1) I don't know what this whole thing is about.
2) You say they support Arab Nazis okay.
3) Yisrael Beiteinu IS in the government. It holds a lot of power today.
4) I don't really care about Ukraine. I also hope Jews stop taking trips there thinking they are doing something great leaving Israel and visiting Rebbe Nachman's grave there (which is also the place of mass Jewish graves, which were butchered there, even before the latest holocaust).
2)They support the Arabs because of their leader's cult of personality. He wants to look good to everyone. Politicians do that. They support the Israelis and "Palestinians" equally, because of the nationalist "Right to Self-Determination" policy. If some truth came to them they would change their minds.
4)Most of those Jews were probably killed by the pig Czar and the Russian army because Ukraine was for many years Russian province.
It's really about nationalists standing together and not fighting. Zionism is nationalism.
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1) I don't know what this whole thing is about.
2) You say they support Arab Nazis okay.
3) Yisrael Beiteinu IS in the government. It holds a lot of power today.
4) I don't really care about Ukraine. I also hope Jews stop taking trips there thinking they are doing something great leaving Israel and visiting Rebbe Nachman's grave there (which is also the place of mass Jewish graves, which were butchered there, even before the latest holocaust).
Also I wouldn't know much about Israeli government, just that Bibi is disappointing for Zionists. Correct me if I'm wrong but I though Yisrael Beiteinu is Israel's leading nationalist party.
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Also I wouldn't know much about Israeli government, just that Bibi is disappointing for Zionists. Correct me if I'm wrong but I though Yisrael Beiteinu is Israel's leading nationalist party.
Only on paper and with words. They openly stated that they would transfer land to the Arab Nazis. Also not only land from the "Green Line" but within "pre-1967" Israel as well that is heavily populated by Arabs. That is Israel's "Right-wing" today. This group is just as dangerous as Sharon.
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Only on paper and with words. They openly stated that they would transfer land to the Arab Nazis. Also not only land from the "Green Line" but within "pre-1967" Israel as well that is heavily populated by Arabs. That is Israel's "Right-wing" today. This group is just as dangerous as Sharon.
Such a shame. Is there any real nationalist party in Israel? I must know so I can support them.
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It is no wonder that Israel will ever recognize this antisemitic crap...
http://www.examiner.com/article/zionism-today-is-a-direct-result-of-holodomor-jewish-involvement-christian-genocide
I think you are confused. Very very confused.
For example: holodomor? Real event in history.
Carried out by Jews? A complete nazi lie.
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I think you are confused. Very very confused.
For example: holodomor? Real event in history.
Carried out by Jews? A complete nazi lie.
Are you saying I am confused? I don't think so. I think that what happened was not a genocide but it was surely a cruel and inhumane thing which was done. But it was not on the level of a planned genocide of the Jewish people. Jews and non-Jews died in the famine. But the problem is that the Ukrainians and the Russians would like to blame the Jewish people for the event.
It is for this reason I find it hard to accept a tragedy which killed many Jews {I think I calculated about 120k-140k Jews died according to statistics I found} to be blamed on the Jews.
Remember the thread I posted two years ago... At the time you said you had never heard of Holodomor. We had a big discussion about it and RBM had some choice things to say... Check out that thread...
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,51214.0.html
As a challenge to you KWRBT I dare you to google Holodomor and tell me how many antisemitic sites come up. It is the rallying call of every nazi out there that the Jewish people perpetrated a genocide against christian russians.
Or maybe you think that Netanyahu didn't want to acknowledge this event because he is covering for the commies?
Here is a link for a google search for 'Holodomor' & 'Jew'...
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=holodomor+jews&revid=2052436014&sa=X&ei=mJYHULuACMmw2QW1t7XmBA&ved=0CGAQ1QIoAjgK&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=630936b765f75efa&biw=1280&bih=645
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I must admit that without the nazi accusations of Jewish conspiracy in the events which happened I may have had a different opinion. Looking at my opinion from two years ago it appears it has changed slightly...
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Bring sources to your claim. I have never heard any holodomor denying in Israel. However lots of Ukrainian nazis try to say the Jews were behind it so to justify the Ukrainian enthusiastic participation in the Holocaust.
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Sorry to hear this..it seems our leaders don't stand on solid ground. I respected Netanyahu for his strength, but maybe that was misplaced.
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The title of this thread is misleading. Israel recognizes, according to the wikileaks information I posted about two years ago, that there was a mass human-inflicted famine called the Holodomor. But the question is does it actually qualify to be called a genocide. I also have this question. Who was the target of the genocide supposed to be? It seems that all Russians suffered because of this.
Apparently I am not the only one who sees this as a legitimate question:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor_genocide_question
The Holodomor genocide question consists of the attempts to determine whether the Holodomor, the disastrous famine in 1933 that claimed millions of lives in Ukraine that is recognized as a crime against humanity by the European Parliament,[1] was an ethnic genocide, a natural catastrophe or democide.[2][3] Currently, there is no international consensus among scholars or politicians on whether the Soviet policies that caused the famine fall under the legal definition of genocide.[4][5] As of April 2008, the parliament of Ukraine and the governments of 8 countries have recognized the Holodomor as an act of genocide.[6][dated info]
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The title of this thread is misleading. Israel recognizes, according to the wikileaks information I posted about two years ago, that there was a mass human-inflicted famine called the Holodomor. But the question is does it actually qualify to be called a genocide. I also have this question. Who was the target of the genocide supposed to be? It seems that all Russians suffered because of this.
Apparently I am not the only one who sees this as a legitimate question:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor_genocide_question
The Ukrainians were victims of the Russians.
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The Ukrainians were victims of the Russians.
This is the question whether it amounts to genocide according to the UN definition. There is no 'denial' that a great number of innocent people died as a result of this, but whether it can be called genocide by a certain definition.
From the wikipage:
Genocide debate: Russian government position
The Russian Federation accepts historic information about the Holodomor but rejects the argument that it was ethnic genocide by pointing out the fact that millions of non-Ukrainian Soviet citizens also died because of the famine. On 2 April 2008, a statement was voted by the Russian parliament stating there was no evidence that the 1933 famine was an act of genocide specifically against the Ukrainian people. This was in response to the 2006 Ukrainian parliament declaration that the Holodomor was an act of genocide by the Soviet authorities against the Ukrainian people. The resolution adopted by Russia's lower house of parliament, the State Duma, condemned the Soviet regime's "disregard for the lives of people in the attainment of economic and political goals", along with "any attempts to revive totalitarian regimes that disregard the rights and lives of citizens in former Soviet states." yet stated that "there is no historic evidence that the famine was organized on ethnic grounds."[18]
I now realize that there is a category called 'Crimes against Humanity' which this event may be classified as. I am still not convinced it can be called Genocide though... Read the arguments on the wiki page to understand what I am saying.
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This is the question whether it amounts to genocide according to the UN definition. There is no 'denial' that a great number of innocent people died as a result of this, but whether it can be called genocide by a certain definition.
From the wikipage:
I now realize that there is a category called 'Crimes against Humanity' which this event may be classified as. I am still not convinced it can be called Genocide though... Read the arguments on the wiki page to understand what I am saying.
If anyone could help me find a group of right-wing nationalistic Ukrainians who support Israel and see the Holodomor and Holocaust as 2 events which bring them together with Jews, I think this would help. i did have the earlier mentioned website about "reconciling Jews and Ukrainians" that saw leftist Jews as provocators while mentioning them explicitly as anti-Israel.
I did find YouTube channel "ProudUkie (http://www.youtube.com/user/ProudUkie)" who I like who makes pro-Israel, pro-Polish, and incredibly racist Russophobic posts whilst at same time being pro-Serb?!?!? He/she is also not afraid to tackle Ukrainian neo-nazis and Ukrainophobic bolsheviks at once!
Also, there is one thing that needs to be mentioned here: Polish Underground of WWII. These brave men fought the nazis and soviets at the same time, but they also fought the Ukrainian People's Army. The Ukrainian People's Army fought the nazis and soviets at the same time too. I think most Jews would feel comfortable to support the Polish Underground. Thus, east Europe was a 4-way war. Polish nationalists are also very pro-Israel. The only right-wing Polish antisemitism from that I've seen is from the Polish neo-nazis (on Youtube mainly "NajlepszyPolskiFreePress" the stupid Polish nazi fool). One of the top comments is
Żydzi to Polacy wyznania mojżeszowego , nasi starsi bracia w wierze , powinni wrócić do Polski do swojej dawnej ojczyzny.
which means according of Google Translate:
Jews are Polish Jews, our elder brothers in faith, they should return to Polish to their ancient homeland.
I think this is supposed to be saying that they should go back to Israel (ancient homeland) with error in translation. It's nationalism and want to keep Poland Polish while reject antisemitism.
What really makes me angry are Ukrainian nationalists who support "Palestinians"! Ukraine leftist government supports them, why should nationalist Ukrainians? No sense at all! Israel & Ukraine are in the same position and again I say:
Both are states which have huge minorities belonging to larger ethnic groups. There are more Russians than Ukrainians and more Arabs than Jews. But Israel and Ukraine are threatened with Arab and Russian minorities who are famously genocidal. One would think there would be many Jews in the Arab countries by just comparing the size. Same thing for Ukrainians in Russia. but not really. I saw one Ukrainian nationalist channel "theCossackmate" who support Yulia Tymoshenko and VO "Svoboda" but then I saw they liked a video about Israeli organ harvesting! They said,"Izraeli government is responsible for sure" or something like that. I doubt it was for same reason most people here don't like the Israeli gov.
Ukrainian YouTuber "zakharii" is also nationalistic and posts videos celebrate Judæo-Ukrainian culture. However he did criticize Tymoshenko because of half-Ukrainian (mother), 1/4 Jew (father's mother) and 1/4 Latvian (father's father). But he doesn't hate Jews. I just wish Ukrainian nationalists would see the similarities w/Israel. Conservative Ukrainians do like last Ukrainian president Yushchenko (actually ethnic Ukrainian unlike leftist Byelorusian pig Yanukovych) who said Holodomor helps Ukrainians relate to Jews.
I wish there was cultural program to help Ukrainians and Jews understand each other, is sad that there is that much misunderstanding. Ukrainians often think Jews reject others' suffering and only think about Holocaust. But whenever a Ukrainian say this I tell them "If I ever tell a Jewish person about the Holodomor they are shocked to find out about it and feel as though it makes them closer to the Ukrainians" from real experience. If it's most people they just say "That's horrible I never knew it happened!" but for Jews is "We feel closer to the Ukrainian people".
Also there is many YouTube videos about Holodomor where Ukrainians who aren't nazis and don't blame "Bolshevik Jews" for the actual genocide will still blame Jews for control the media and make it look like their genocide is more important.
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Another try of Serb enemy to alter historical facts. It was clearly stated in by the enemy that Serbs and Bulgarians are brothers and long time friends. This can't be further from the truth. The Serbs and their neighbors Bulgarians are rivals from over 1500 years ago and had never been friends in history. In WWI and WWII Bulgarians committed unspeakable atrocities when they occupied our country. On top of that, they recognized Serbia's southern province Kosovo to be independent country. This is just in past 100 years and if we goo deeper in history we are going to find out horror stories of Bulgarian actions against my nation.
Now, lets talk about Ukraine. The word Ukraine means Krajina in Serbian language (or any other Slavic language I believe). Krajina is translated as region within some country, usually region near border, populated with an ethnic majority who's sole purpose is to defend rest of the country. We can compare this to Jewish region called Palestine or Serb region Kosovo for example.
Majority of people in Ukraine are ethnic Russians who speak Russian language. There is small minority of newly created nation called Ukrainians. You get the idea? Ukrainians are nation as much as Bosnians, Palestinians, or Kosovars.
Now can someone tell me how insane you must be to state that Russians committed genocide against their fellow Russians? I fully understand that many people died due to terrible communist policies, but almost all who died considered themselves RUSSIANS.
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Who was the target of the genocide supposed to be? It seems that all Russians suffered because of this.
Apparently I am not the only one who sees this as a legitimate question:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor_genocide_question
You just nailed it. Thanks for knowing historical facts so well!!!
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Are you saying I am confused? I don't think so. I think that what happened was not a genocide but it was surely a cruel and inhumane thing which was done. But it was not on the level of a planned genocide of the Jewish people. Jews and non-Jews died in the famine. But the problem is that the Ukrainians and the Russians would like to blame the Jewish people for the event.
It is for this reason I find it hard to accept a tragedy which killed many Jews {I think I calculated about 120k-140k Jews died according to statistics I found} to be blamed on the Jews.
Remember the thread I posted two years ago... At the time you said you had never heard of Holodomor. We had a big discussion about it and RBM had some choice things to say... Check out that thread...
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,51214.0.html
As a challenge to you KWRBT I dare you to google Holodomor and tell me how many antisemitic sites come up. It is the rallying call of every nazi out there that the Jewish people perpetrated a genocide against christian russians.
Or maybe you think that Netanyahu didn't want to acknowledge this event because he is covering for the commies?
Here is a link for a google search for 'Holodomor' & 'Jew'...
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=holodomor+jews&revid=2052436014&sa=X&ei=mJYHULuACMmw2QW1t7XmBA&ved=0CGAQ1QIoAjgK&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=630936b765f75efa&biw=1280&bih=645
You replied w total confusion. Your comments obfuscate not only the history but also my position.
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You replied w total confusion. Your comments obfuscate not only the history but also my position.
I have no idea what you are talking about. I have posted factual information from several sources. Nothing was obfuscated.
Here are the facts:
1) A famine occurred in Ukraine and Soviet Russia
2) Millions perished in this famine.
3) Some claim that it was a planned 'genocide' of these people. Others claim it does not meet the definition of a 'genocide'.
4) The event is used quite vigorously by Jew haters who blame it on the Jewish Cabal who controlled the Soviet Communist government.
I have no idea what you think was not clear in what I said. I stand by my opinion that it did not qualify as a genocide. I admit that it may rise to a 'crime against humanity' though. I also did not obfuscate your position. Look at what you wrote two years ago about not knowing about it...
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At the start of 20th century the Anti-Jewish pogroms continued to occur in cities and towns across the Russian Empire such as Kishinev (1905), Kiev (1911), and many others. Numerous Jewish self-defense groups were organized to prevent the outbreak of pogroms among which the most notorious one was under the leadership of Mishka Yaponchik in Odessa. During the Revolution of 1917 and the ensuing Russian Civil War an estimated 70,000 to 250,000 civilian Jews were killed in the atrocities throughout the former Russian Empire in this period.
During the establishment of the Ukrainian People's Republic (1919–20), pogroms continued to be perpetrated on Ukrainian territory. Only in Ukraine, the number of civilian Jews killed during the period was estimated to be between 35 and 50 thousand. Archives declassified after 1991 provide evidence of a higher number; in the period from 1918 to 1921, "according to incomplete data, at least 100,000 Jews were killed in Ukraine in the pogroms."
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At the start of 20th century the Anti-Jewish pogroms continued to occur in cities and towns across the Russian Empire such as Kishinev (1905), Kiev (1911), and many others. Numerous Jewish self-defense groups were organized to prevent the outbreak of pogroms among which the most notorious one was under the leadership of Mishka Yaponchik in Odessa. During the Revolution of 1917 and the ensuing Russian Civil War an estimated 70,000 to 250,000 civilian Jews were killed in the atrocities throughout the former Russian Empire in this period.
During the establishment of the Ukrainian People's Republic (1919–20), pogroms continued to be perpetrated on Ukrainian territory. Only in Ukraine, the number of civilian Jews killed during the period was estimated to be between 35 and 50 thousand. Archives declassified after 1991 provide evidence of a higher number; in the period from 1918 to 1921, "according to incomplete data, at least 100,000 Jews were killed in Ukraine in the pogroms."
I know many Ukrainian nationalists who support Israel, despite these history. I want to know Ukrainian Nationalist group that supports Israel, so I can offer my support. Blok Tymoshenko is pro-Israel and Russophobic but they are conservatives not nationalists.