JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dan Ben Noah on October 25, 2012, 12:04:30 PM
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Shalom
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That's really a shame that they have to say things like that without knowing all the facts. I think the author of this article is the despicable creep.
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Just what we need. Another Pamela Gellar.. ??? ::) I wrote, "Chaim Ben Pesach is a Jewish hero and an American hero. Don't believe the lies you hear about him. Get the facts at jtf dot org."
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Once a quisling, always a quisling.
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I just posted.
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If all Europeans are like Muman (think Breivik is a maniac), all Europeans girls and children will be Islamic sex toys soon
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It's insanely awesome to see how Westerners think their war with Islam is a game. No wonder the Crusader colonies were sliced to eterenal doom after such a short time
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If all Europeans are like Muman (think Breivik is a maniac), all Europeans girls and children will be Islamic sex toys soon
Ron,
You are a very immature person, in my opinion. You really don't understand how things work. If you think by insulting me you have made yourself seem big, you are very mistaken. I expressed my opinion clearly, and my opinion stands. It is not in the best interest of the anti-Islamic forces for someone like Brevik to kill his own countrymen. If you think otherwise, you are entitled to your opinion, but please don't ascribe things to me which are obviously false.
Killing your countrymen makes one look like a depraved maniac, worse than the muslims which I am fighting against. He does not act in my best interest, nor in the best interest of Israel despite what the conspiracy theorists are saying. He was no hero, and his act was deplorable and does not achieve anything but a step backward for all those who are attempting to alert the world to the threat of islam.
Sometimes the things you say make no sense at all... I suspect its because you are naive...
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If all Europeans are like Muman (think Breivik is a maniac), all Europeans girls and children will be Islamic sex toys soon
BTW Ron.... I have always stood against islam, the spread of it, and the growing attempts to spread sharia law around the world. But it seems the difference between you and I lie in the fact that I am trying to change the system legally, through the attempt to influence public opinion. This is a method which I have been told that JTF is also trying to achieve, through legal means, and through videos and other material to influence public opinion. I believe, and so too has Chaim indicated, that JTF is a law abiding organization, and this is a good thing because otherwise I would probably not associate with this organization if I believed that people would act violently as a result of things read or written on JTF. I do support the settlers and their fight against the Israeli establishment, but I believe it is within my right to do so, and hopefully without violence from any Jew.
You may not have family which you need to support so you can say what you want without worrying about it. But I try to advocate for the cause but I don't encourage extremism. I hate the muslim religion because it is what inspired the terrorists who killed my brother on 9/11, and because of their attempts to destroy the Jewish state which I am happy exists in my lifetime. I support Kahanes vision even though many think it is extreme, and I do not hide my support, and have discussed it with all of my Rabbis.
So do not take my stance as being supporting islam, that is an insult to me.... I am just avoiding extremism, as I believe it doesn't often lead to the desired results.
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Well, I guess I am a little nutty. Even though what Brevik did was a shocking thing.. I understand the mans frustration.
Marxists and Muslims taking over EU (once a sane place) now being ruled by the scum of the earth--I would not do what Brevik did, but I totally understand his plight.
I guess this makes me 'extreme'?
Having lived in both Commie Calif and Bolshevik NYC and seeing what these horrible people have done, there is not one day that goes by that I wish they would all just croak or that some 'insane' person would put them all out of their misery.
I thank Gd everyday that I dont live in either place anymore. Watching my beloved NY and CA torn to pieces has made me completely heartsick.
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Commented after someone named Domino
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You desperately misunderstand Islam. An overt effort supported by the population works, but persecution is just enough wind to fan the flames. This guy did not act in the best interests of the anti-jihad movement.
He killed extreme LEFTISTS, people who would grow up encouraging Jihadism.
Not only grow up, but who participated in pro-Jihadism and Jew-hatred.
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Ron,
You are a very immature person, in my opinion. You really don't understand how things work. If you think by insulting me you have made yourself seem big, you are very mistaken. I expressed my opinion clearly, and my opinion stands. It is not in the best interest of the anti-Islamic forces for someone like Brevik to kill his own countrymen. If you think otherwise, you are entitled to your opinion, but please don't ascribe things to me which are obviously false.
from a Norwegian/European point of view, Breivik was more useful to the war against Islam than even Charles Martel or Vlad Tepes. They killed regular Muslims, but he hammered the cancer that genocides Europe - the Communist traitors. A traitor is always worse an enemy.
Killing your countrymen makes one look like a depraved maniac, worse than the muslims which I am fighting against. He does not act in my best interest, nor in the best interest of Israel despite what the conspiracy theorists are saying. He was no hero, and his act was deplorable and does not achieve anything but a step backward for all those who are attempting to alert the world to the threat of islam.
That's the entire point! for decades all the so-called anti-Islamic movement in America and Europe did was to whine and convince people what kind of victims they are. Nobody gives a fking rat about victims. People follow someone because they're strong and crazy! not only that that, power is what brings issues to the front page. I know people in Europe and all people talk about there is Breivik! he brought the anti-Islamic cause on the front page and many people around the continent support him
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BTW Ron.... I have always stood against islam, the spread of it, and the growing attempts to spread sharia law around the world. But it seems the difference between you and I lie in the fact that I am trying to change the system legally, through the attempt to influence public opinion. This is a method which I have been told that JTF is also trying to achieve, through legal means, and through videos and other material to influence public opinion. I believe, and so too has Chaim indicated, that JTF is a law abiding organization, and this is a good thing because otherwise I would probably not associate with this organization if I believed that people would act violently as a result of things read or written on JTF. I do support the settlers and their fight against the Israeli establishment, but I believe it is within my right to do so, and hopefully without violence from any Jew.
You may not have family which you need to support so you can say what you want without worrying about it. But I try to advocate for the cause but I don't encourage extremism. I hate the muslim religion because it is what inspired the terrorists who killed my brother on 9/11, and because of their attempts to destroy the Jewish state which I am happy exists in my lifetime. I support Kahanes vision even though many think it is extreme, and I do not hide my support, and have discussed it with all of my Rabbis.
So do not take my stance as being supporting islam, that is an insult to me.... I am just avoiding extremism, as I believe it doesn't often lead to the desired results.
You're right. The Nazis who Breivik slaughtered were demanding that Israel be boycotted, what does it have to do with you? you live in America!
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Europe is a whore-house filled with cancer.
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I also commented there. Most of the fans of that site seem to agree with us. There is one troll there against us but they all bash him lol
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He killed extreme LEFTISTS, people who would grow up encouraging Jihadism.
Not only grow up, but who participated in pro-Jihadism and Jew-hatred.
Yep.
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
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If all Europeans are like Muman (think Breivik is a maniac), all Europeans girls and children will be Islamic sex toys soon
Ron, aren't you supposed to be a leader of the movement? I know of no style of leadership that recommends belittling your followers and picking fights with them over ridiculous side issues. Jews are one quarter of one percent of the world population. Nationalist Jews are a minority of that group. Those who support JTF are a small minority of Jewish nationalists. Why you would look to alienate a member of that tiny group that supports you is beyond me.
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I agree, Ron even though I enjoy reading your posts and I even find them amusing as well, at times I wonder if you are either just a kid, or an Avishai Raviv?
How old are you, if you dont mind?
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I agree, Ron even though I enjoy reading your posts and I even find them amusing as well, at times I wonder if you are either just a kid, or an Avishai Raviv?
How old are you, if you dont mind?
To answer your question, Ron Ben Michael is a teenager. I think he's like 17 or something.
Anyway, I just commented there as well.
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To answer your question, Ron Ben Michael is a teenager. I think he's like 17 or something.
Anyway, I just commented there as well.
Well he needs to grow up and watch how he represents Rav Kahane. If he claims to be his follower. I can tell him, straight examples of what he says and writes and how Rav Kahane would never stand for such things. Let him not embarrass and turn people off to Rav Kahane's legacy and message.
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I also commented there. Most of the fans of that site seem to agree with us. There is one troll there against us but they all bash him lol
I'd be willing to bet almost anything that that guy secretly votes for Obama.
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I'm not part of this movement and TagChazirChenek you Yankee fag come to Israel for the first time of your virgin life and say that to my face
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I bet that "Schlomotion" is Bruce Bower himself.
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You know what I find hypocritical here is that a couple of days ago a thread asking about which was worse, Poles or Russians concerning antisemitism, it was pointed out that we are just days away from an important election.
Yet this thread, which borders on indicating JTF supports terrorists, is not reprimanded likewise.... Is there a double standard?
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My mind is telling me to stay out of this, but my body is saying "Yes, jump in".
Why does Tag(whatever_on_earth_that_means) think you misrepresent rabbi Kahane by supporting Breivik, and do you think killing leftists that want to destroy Israel is a worthy cause?
Tag, why do you think he is not being truthful to the good rabbi's legacy, and why do you consider support of Breivik's actions immature?
Also, what constitutes someone being part of the movement? Am I not a part of this?
??? Where did I say such a think about Brevik? and
"My mind is telling me to stay out of this, but my body is saying "Yes, jump in". "
Listen to your mind. Goodbye.
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And Ron this is not you going around the internet representing Jews in general and Rav Kahane saying sh^t like this
"Awesome lips... insanely perfect to milk Muslim blood from my Jewish [censored]"
And "Stupid Mexican cockroach... [censored] you from Israel"
Are you INSANE?
Review your comments.
http://www.youtube.com/user/judeanoccupier/feed?filter=2
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My mind is telling me to stay out of this, but my body is saying "Yes, jump in".
Why does Tag(whatever_on_earth_that_means) think you misrepresent rabbi Kahane by supporting Breivik, and do you think killing leftists that want to destroy Israel is a worthy cause?
Tag, why do you think he is not being truthful to the good rabbi's legacy, and why do you consider support of Breivik's actions immature?
Also, what constitutes someone being part of the movement? Am I not a part of this?
LKZ,
I have indicated that there are various levels of enemies. Our first enemies are the arabs who are openly trying to kill us. Their supporters are also guilty. But the issue is that those who this nut killed were not directly involved in killing Jews. Their involvement was not clearly demanding death. We do not go and kill everyone who hates Jews, that is what the muslims do, and we are not commanded to do so. We are commanded to defend ourselves, and to ensure that we can live in peace. But there is no need to kill children, even if they may be indoctrinated with ideas which run counter to our beliefs.
What is very disturbing about this guy is that he seemed to be deluded into thinking he was acting on behalf of the Knights of Templar, which seems like a delusion to me. He never was able to prove any such organization existed, and this is another reason to put him in the category of lunatic. That he killed his own people indicates he had misplaced anger, because killing your own people only makes you an enemy of your nation. For example, was McVeigh who engineered the Oklahoma City bombing, was never really a hero even if he felt it justified because of 'Ruby Ridge' or whatever his excuse was. That McVeigh was responsible for killing the children who were in the building, he was worthy of receiving the death penalty.
Who is a valid target, who is not a valid target? I was told by a person I worked with many years ago he would believe that there are no innocent victims, and in a discussion about 9/11 he said that all who worked in the WTC were valid targets {of which my brother worked in the building}. I do not think that civilians should be considered valid targets, unless they are being used as a human shield for evil purposes.
I will bring another point which may be open for discussion. Last Shabbat, yesterday, we read the story of Ishmael being evicted from the house of our father Abraham and Sarahs home. At this point in the narrative Hagar and Ishmael end up in the desert and their food and water ran out, thus plunging them into dispair which led Hagar to put the sick Ishmael under a bush and wait for him to die. At this point Hashem sends an Angel of the L-rd to inform Hagar that Ishmael will not die, that a stream of water would appear to her, and that Ishmael would be a mighty nation.
The question which our sages ask, and as is explained in a Medresh, is why was Ishmael allowed to live at all? Considering how much trouble the descendents of the wicked Ishmael would be, how much trouble and opression they would cause the Jewish people, why was he allowed to live? It was known he was a 'bad apple' that he was drawn to idolatry, to sexual immorality, and even to murder. So why would Hashem send an Angel of mercy to save Ishmael?
Genesis 21:17
And G-d heard the voice of the lad (Ishmael) and an angel of G-d called to Hagar from the Heavens and said to her 'What is the matter, Hagar? Fear not for G-d has as heard the voice of the lad, as he is there.
RASHI
As he is there: Rashi: According to his actions that he does now is he judged., and not according to what he is destined to do in the future. . Because the ministering angels were arguing against (Ishmael) and saying 'Master of the universe, he (Ishmael ) whose offspring are destined to kill Your sons with thirst (lack of water), will You cause a well to rise up for him? And He answered them: At the present moment, what is he righteous or evil? They answered 'Righteous' So He said to them 'According to his deeds at the present time I judge him.' That is the meaning of the words "as he is (Now) there."
Why I bring this? Because my point is that these were mainly young men and women who had not actually done anything, even though they may have done something in the future, this is not a reason to kill them at this time. This is why I find it wrong to consider these as targets.
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Muman that saying of Rashi is problematic. It was the evil actions of Ishamel that got him thrown out of the house to begin with. Like you said he committed those various sins (idolatry, sexual immorality and trying to murder Yitzhawk).
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Ishmael had not spoken to kill his brother, as far as I know... If one supports murderers and their cause, surely Muman they are not righteous?
I happen not to support the man, and the KT thing was to pin the murders on a major anti-jihad KT member who has since gone into exile. I tend to see a conspiracy in these matters, as it is unlikely such a plan would be developed on one's own, and today, his name is a by-word for islamophobia.
Ishmael was a murderer according to some. And who said these kids ever talked about murdering Israelis? As far as I had heard they supported boycotts and divestment, and supported the 'flotilla' movements. While these are things which are bad, they do not directly cause Israeli deaths. Also there are many places here in America were divestment and boycotts of Israel are pushed every day. Heck, I live near Bezerkley where they are always speaking bad of Israel. Does this mean it is justified to kill them too?
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Muman that saying of Rashi is problematic. It was the evil actions of Ishamel that got him thrown out of the house to begin with. Like you said he committed those various sins (idolatry, sexual immorality and trying to murder Yitzhawk).
It is not just Rashi saying it. I believe it originally comes from a Medresh...
Hashem certainly sent the Angel to save Ishmael. What is the reason according to your understanding?
[http://www.shemayisrael.com/parsha/solomon/questions/archives/vayera66.htm
9. The Midrashic tradition quoted by Rashi states the following. When the water supply provided by Abraham for Hagar and her son Ishmael ran out (21:17), the angels pleaded with G-d not to perform a miracle for Ishmael, because in the future his offspring would persecute and murder Israelite people. G-d, however, responded that He would judge Ishmael only according to his present deeds 'as he is now' and not according to what would happen in the future.
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It is not just Rashi saying it. I believe it originally comes from a Medresh...
Hashem certainly sent the Angel to save Ishmael. What is the reason according to your understanding?
Do not know, but I know this saying and I find it problematic. It is saying yes in the future his descendants will be evil (as is apparent), but he himself was evil to begin with and was involved in doing those things.
I have no answer.
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Dont know if it even connected to that though. And what i said to Ron was not even connected to his support of Breivik. Heck I dont care about those leftists like I said earlier.
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt26d7.htm
ז זְכֹר יְהוָה, לִבְנֵי אֱדוֹם-- אֵת, יוֹם יְרוּשָׁלִָם:
הָאֹמְרִים, עָרוּ עָרוּ-- עַד, הַיְסוֹד בָּהּ. 7 Remember, O LORD, against the children of Edom the day of Jerusalem; {N}
who said: 'Rase it, rase it, even to the foundation thereof.'
ח בַּת-בָּבֶל, הַשְּׁדוּדָה:
אַשְׁרֵי שֶׁיְשַׁלֶּם-לָךְ-- אֶת-גְּמוּלֵךְ, שֶׁגָּמַלְתְּ לָנוּ. 8 O daughter of Babylon, that art to be destroyed; {N}
happy shall he be, that repayeth thee as thou hast served us.
ט אַשְׁרֵי, שֶׁיֹּאחֵז וְנִפֵּץ אֶת-עֹלָלַיִךְ-- אֶל-הַסָּלַע. 9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the rock. {P}
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Whoooa "Slave of G-d"?? That isn't a very Jewish term, to the contrary in fact...
Actually that isn't a problem. Jews are "slaves" or "servants" of G-D.
His many other sayings and writings are problematic. It is like he is trying to turn any sane people off.
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Something is not right here ...
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was told by a person I worked with many years ago he would believe that there are no innocent victims, and in a discussion about 9/11 he said that all who worked in the WTC were valid targets {of which my brother worked in the building}.
If you didn't knock him to the ground for saying that then you've got more self control than I do.
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Servant is completely different than slave. The difference is will. It's night and day comparatively.
Its the same word in Hebrew. "Eved"
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Ron, Where did you go for 10 months?
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You know what I find hypocritical here is that a couple of days ago a thread asking about which was worse, Poles or Russians concerning antisemitism, it was pointed out that we are just days away from an important election.
Yet this thread, which borders on indicating JTF supports terrorists, is not reprimanded likewise.... Is there a double standard?
LOL, so I have to police the forum now because I criticized another thread?
This thread is pretty newsworthy. It is Chaim quoted in a video and an article. There is no comparison to a pole about voting on ethnicities and who is worse. How the discussion evolved from the original post is not in my control and it's not my duty or even my place to start whining about that. Starting a thread is something different.
Hope that reply is not too hypocritical for you Muman.
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You know what pisses me off is, Muman got called out for no reason! And Tag and Muman were both insulted! For what?
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That's really a shame that they have to say things like that without knowing all the facts. I think the author of this article is the despicable creep.
They just keep repeating the same lies over and over again. It's like a rehash of what that idiot Gellar said, that was also said by the moronic EDL. Same line repeated by similar minded idiots
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LOL, so I have to police the forum now because I criticized another thread?
This thread is pretty newsworthy. It is Chaim quoted in a video and an article. There is no comparison to a pole about voting on ethnicities and who is worse. How the discussion evolved from the original post is not in my control and it's not my duty or even my place to start whining about that. Starting a thread is something different.
Hope that reply is not too hypocritical for you Muman.
Don't you think it makes the forum look extreme considering some here consider this Brevik nut-case to be a hero? I truly think it is unfortunate that this thread was bumped to the top {after several weeks of inactivity} right before the election.
Anyone who is forming an opinion of JTF and its members would think we were a bunch of blood-thirsty terrorists calling for the murder of young men and women. I think this is an image which doesn't portray this forum in the best light.
PS: And KWRBT this was not directed to you. It was making a statement that I think some threads are complained about without much cause {considering the Russian vs Polish poll which I find completely acceptable and should not offend anyone} versus a thread where several members indicate that they find no problem with killing young children...
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They just keep repeating the same lies over and over again. It's like a rehash of what that idiot Gellar said, that was also said by the moronic EDL. Same line repeated by similar minded idiots
We can put walls up around ourselves... or we can build allies. What would Solomon have done?
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Don't you think it makes the forum look extreme considering some here consider this Brevik nut-case to be a hero? I truly think it is unfortunate that this thread was bumped to the top {after several weeks of inactivity} right before the election.
Anyone who is forming an opinion of JTF and its members would think we were a bunch of blood-thirsty terrorists calling for the murder of young men and women. I think this is an image which doesn't portray this forum in the best light.
I believe you are wrong. An intelligent person can read in this thread and see there are different point of views. I don't think it's a reflection on the forum one way or the other except that there is some healthy discussion here (although at times too much insults and personal attacks with that, but that aside).
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I believe you are wrong. An intelligent person can read in this thread and see there are different point of views. I don't think it's a reflection on the forum one way or the other except that there is some healthy discussion here (although at times too much insults and personal attacks with that, but that aside).
Intelligent people thinks slobs should be characterized as slobs
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Intelligent people thinks slobs should be characterized as slobs
What are you talking about?
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What are you talking about?
:laugh: (at him) he is still obsessing about the few bags (or some stuff) on the floor with the video with Lenny Goldberg.
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WERE ALL FALLING APART! WE NEED TO DEBATE THE OTHER KAHANIST GROUPS TO REMIND US WHAT IT IS WE STAND FOR, THEN WE CAN TELL WHATEVER HIS NAME IS TO **** OFF IF HE'S "not part of the movement". *Runs about frantically*
Troll much?
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Regardless of one's opinion of Breivik, I think it is the height of chutzpah and hatred to equate Chaim, who never hurt ANYBODY, to him. YS to Bruce Bower.
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Regardless of one's opinion of Breivik, I think it is the height of chutzpah and hatred to equate Chaim, who never hurt ANYBODY, to him. YS to Bruce Bower.
I agree with your point. Chaims action was noble and should be celebrated...
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They just keep repeating the same lies over and over again. It's like a rehash of what that idiot Gellar said, that was also said by the moronic EDL. Same line repeated by similar minded idiots
Good point
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Trolling again?
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Trolling again?
Whom are you talking about?
If this post was directed at me: The person I said that to about trolling was the person I quoted. (Which was not you)
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Whom are you talking about?
If this post was directed at me: The person I said that to about trolling was the person I quoted. (Which was not you)
:::D :)
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Whom are you talking about?
If this post was directed at me: The person I said that to about trolling was the person I quoted. (Which was not you)
I was talking about the other person. We had the same thought. I know you werent talking about me, nor I, you. Thanks
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I am very disappointed in Frontpagemag, I have followed them for a long time, I think it's run by David Horowitz who is a conservative I admire. Too bad the author of this article wanted to be politically correct and bashed Chaim.