JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ChabadKahanist on January 09, 2013, 10:12:15 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8D2O71jUZU
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http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/164030
Too bad just as I was happy that somebody has the cajones to confront the smegazoid pseudo-Jews they back down :'(
This is a sad day.
The commercial may be funny but it is true quicky Mickey Mouse conversions are done for Russian [censored] in the IDF
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Well I guess women can get [censored] too if they don't bathe well. But I don't think there's anything that a kosher conversion does about that problem for them. Maybe if they did some washing down there with soap while dunking in the miqveh it might fix that problem.
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http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/164030
Too bad just as I was happy that somebody has the cajones to confront the smegazoid pseudo-Jews they back down :'(
This is a sad day.
The commercial may be funny but it is true quicky Mickey Mouse conversions are done for Russian [censored] in the IDF
What? I don't see the link you provided saying they backed down. On the contrary.
"Shas Defends Message, Extends Broadcast of Controversial Ad" is the title.
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Also check the other election video's. Look at Lapid blaming the economic woos only on Haredim and Settlers. Not a beep of condemnation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c22PpU5DUL4
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Well I guess women can get [censored] too if they don't bathe well. But I don't think there's anything that a kosher conversion does about that problem for them. Maybe if they did some scrubbing down there with soap while dunking in the miqvah it might fix that problem.
Actually before immersion in the mikvah one must bathe very well with soap & water & in the case of men get circumcised if it is a kosher conversion.
Problem is many are not Jewish at all or have phony conversions.
It would not bother me in the slightest that are not Jewish but I hate when people pretend to be something they are not.
Israel was reborn to be a refuge for Jews not a place for Slavs,Filipinos,Thailandis & Africans seeking better money & handouts.
If they want to be here fine but do not prtend to be something they are not.
Next thing you know Arab terrorists will go outside of Israel make Mickey Mouse Reform & Conservative conversions & come here under the law of return.
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Judge Condemns Shas Ad Mocking "Quickie Conversion"
The Shas party's new election commercial has elicited complaints. Chairman of the Central Election Committee, Judge Eliakim Rubinstein stated that the ad was insensitive to Russian-Israelis. The ad mocked the proposals to institute secular wedding ceremonies. The ad depicted a blonde bride receiving a certificate converting her to Judaism by fax at minutes before she is to be married. The commercial was meant to poke fun at the Yisrael Beiteinu party's bills to circumvent the rabbinical authorities in matters of conversion, marriages and divorce.
The Shas party was initially formed to represent religious Israelis of Sephardic and Middle Eastern background, while the Yisrael Beineinu party was initially formed to represent Israelis born in Russian and other former Soviet countries.
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What? I don't see the link you provided saying they backed down. On the contrary.
"Shas Defends Message, Extends Broadcast of Controversial Ad" is the title.
They defended it but if you read the whole article they said after today they will pull it.
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Actually before immersion in the mikvah one must bathe very well with soap & water & in the case of men get circumcised if it is a kosher conversion.
Problem is many are not Jewish at all or have phony conversions.
It would not bother me in the slightest that are not Jewish but I hate when people pretend to be something they are not.
Israel was reborn to be a refuge for Jews not a place for Slavs,Filipinos,Thailandis & Africans seeking better money & handouts.
If they want to be here fine but do not prtend to be something they are not.
Next thing you know Arab terrorists will go outside of Israel make Mickey Mouse Reform & Conservative conversions & come here under the law of return.
Yeah I was just kidding. But most of those people invading Israel probably do have pretty poor hygiene. But I agree that is ridiculous.
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Yeah I was just kidding. But most of those people invading Israel probably do have pretty poor hygiene. But I agree that is ridiculous.
This is true you can smell them a mile away :::D
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In the video, SShas says top Kdoshim like Ha'Gaon M'Vilna are Gentiles while this Arab midget (who doesn't wear kippah nor has a cm of peyot) is a real Jew, with Arab music in the background. ANY RUSSIAN GENTILE COSSACK is better than these little subhumans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y5wCALTOhCU
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In the video, SShas says top Kdoshim like Ha'Gaon M'Vilna are Gentiles while this Arab midget (who doesn't wear kippah nor has a cm of peyot) is a real Jew, with Arab music in the background. ANY RUSSIAN GENTILE COSSACK is better than these little subhumans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y5wCALTOhCU
I didn't see anything saying that against the Vilna Gaon anybody who speaks bad on the Gaon is evil even the Baal HaTanya who had a machlokes with Gaon refered to him as a gaon & tzadik & said anybody who attacks the Gaon attacks Hashem & Torah.
The music BTW,was not Arab music but Jewish Mizrachi/Sephardic music.
I doubt even ROY woukd say anything against the Gaon.
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They were saying all Jews from Russia (such as Ha'Gaon) are Gentiles who went to Israel for money. They chose a blond who dresses like a whore and a Russian Jew to play a security guard in the backgruond (Russians, both Jews and Getiles, have a stereotype of giant blood thirsty gangsters or bullies who can only work as guards). It's not something new they do, their existence is based on hatred of Ashkenazim (even though an Ashkenazi couple saved the life of that filthy negro Deri) generally and Russians Jews in particular. Deri smeared the "filthy white Russians" of the Likud-Beitenu two weeks ago. And the music is Arab, the words are Arabic not Hebrew.
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They were saying all Jews from Russia (such as Ha'Gaon) are Gentiles who went to Israel for money. It's not something new they do, their existence is based on hatred for Ashkenazis (even though an Ashkenazi couple saved the life of that filthy negro Deri) generally and Russians Jews in particular. Deri smeared "filthy white Russians" of the Likud-Beitenu two weeks ago. And the music is Arab, the words are Arabic not Hebrew.
They were saying no such thing & it is in your mind that they attacked the Gaon.
I myself come from Jews from the former Soviet Union & am against the posseurs who are not halachically Jewish & many with no Jewish bloodline whatsover as are other Jews of Eastern Europe an heritage as well as authentic FSU born Jews.
Deri is a thief & a liar as is Eli Yishai but the ad is factual many Russian Goyim in fact those who are descendants of the pogromchiks slipped through the cracks & are only here for the benefits & many recieve quicky IDF conversions which are questionable by both Ashkenazi & Sephardi standards.
I did not hear the words of the song just the content of the ad which is more less a fact sans the fax machine.
I as a Jew agree with the content of the ad & I am sure most Jews that understand Hebrew do as well.
I do however question the sponsors of the ad as you do because Shas in general does not like Ashkenazim but it goes both ways.
Go to areas like Beitar Illit & see the tension between supposedly Chareidi Jews Ashkenazi & Sephardi this is what destroyed the Bait HaMikdash this what is preventing Moshiach from coming.
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עלק רוסי פחחחח מה אתה משחק אותה אה?
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עלק רוסי פחחחח מה אתה משחק אותה אה?
אני לא משחק שום דבר
I am not playing anything & BTW,it would be more polite to post here in English being that this is an English forum this why I am also answering in English.
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Ron your talking out of your [censored] again. Everything you said was and is incorrect.
Ya Toze Gavaru Paroski. Te Razgavarivish at tviee zoppe.
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Ron your talking out of your [censored] again. Everything you said was and is incorrect.
Ya Toze Gavaru Paroski. Te Razgavarivish at tviee zoppe.
Tag thanks for sticking up for me & indeed he is talking out of his tuchis
He totally misunderstood what I posted & why?
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Tag thanks for sticking up for me & indeed he is talking out of his tuchis
He totally misunderstood what I posted & why?
Everything in his post is the exact opposite of the truth.
"In the video, SShas says top Kdoshim like Ha'Gaon M'Vilna are Gentiles while this Arab midget (who doesn't wear kippah nor has a cm of peyot) is a real Jew, with Arab music in the background. ANY RUSSIAN GENTILE COSSACK is better than these little subhumans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y5wCALTOhCU"
No mention of the Vilna Gaon in this video at all. Their has NEVER been any mention of the Gaon or other Askenasim being "gentiles" as you say. The Gaon in mentioned and quoted many times in Yulkat Yosef and the works of Rav Ovadia Yosef and other "Shas" Rabbis and people.
This guy is not an "Arab midget". He looks like a Jew and not an Arab. He is wearing a Kippa in the back (albeit small) and does have payot (sideburns) (and yes they are small but looks kosher).
You prefer Russian Cossaks over Sefardi Jews? The Cossaks that have been slaughtering your grandparents?
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Everything in his post is the exact opposite of the truth.
"In the video, SShas says top Kdoshim like Ha'Gaon M'Vilna are Gentiles while this Arab midget (who doesn't wear kippah nor has a cm of peyot) is a real Jew, with Arab music in the background. ANY RUSSIAN GENTILE COSSACK is better than these little subhumans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y5wCALTOhCU"
No mention of the Vilna Gaon in this video at all. Their has NEVER been any mention of the Gaon or other Askenasim being "gentiles" as you say. The Gaon in mentioned and quoted many times in Yulkat Yosef and the works of Rav Ovadia Yosef and other "Shas" Rabbis and people.
This guy is not an "Arab midget". He looks like a Jew and not an Arab. He is wearing a Kippa in the back (albeit small) and does have payot (sideburns) (and yes they are small but looks kosher).
You prefer Russian Cossaks over Sefardi Jews? The Cossaks that have been slaughtering your grandparents?
Tag you & I are on the same page he is totally off base here
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y5wCALTOhCU"[/i]
No mention of the Vilna Gaon in this video at all. Their has NEVER been any mention of the Gaon or other Askenasim being "gentiles" as you say. The Gaon in mentioned and quoted many times in Yulkat Yosef and the works of Rav Ovadia Yosef and other "Shas" Rabbis and people.
מש"ל
And regarding your last question: Yea I do. I prefer Hitler himself than "Jewish" Jew-hating pieces of Arab filth who hate Russian Jews but love Arab Nazis (for whom they murdered thousands of Jews and maimed tens of thousands in the name of Judaism in Oslo and the Expulsion from Gaza)
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מש"ל
And regarding your last question: Yea I do. I prefer Hitler himself than "Jewish" Jew-hating pieces of Arab filth who murdered thousands of Jews and maimed tens of thousands in the name of Judaism in Oslo and the Expulsion from Gaza
::) You know their is a place called "Abarbanel" where you can check in.
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::) You know their is a place called "Abarbanel" where you can check in.
Abarbanel? even sudanese negros know it's spelled "there"
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Abarbanel? even sudanese negros know it's spelled "there"
He made a typo big deal but in case you don't know what he is talking about he means the Ho Ho Hacienda,the Funny Farm!!!!! :::D
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Abarbanel Mental Health Center
Listed Under: Israel Hospitals
Address:
15 Keren-Kayement St, Bat Yam, P.O. Box 1115, Tel Aviv, 59100
Israel
Telephone: 972-3-555-2626
Additional Information:
Number of beds : 562
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He made a typo big deal but in case you don't know what he is talking about he means the Ho Ho Hacienda,the Funny Farm!!!!! :::D
רבי = רשע בועל ינשופים
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מש"ל
And regarding your last question: Yea I do. I prefer Hitler himself than "Jewish" Jew-hating pieces of Arab filth who hate Russian Jews but love Arab Nazis (for whom they murdered thousands of Jews and maimed tens of thousands in the name of Judaism in Oslo and the Expulsion from Gaza)
They do not hate Russian Jews they only do not like the smega infested uncicumcised Russian Goyim who are not halachically Jews who came here because of cracks in the law of return or with forged papers or because they had some obscure Jewish relatives.
If they have a Jewish mother or had a halachic conversion nobody hates them.
My wife is a Sephardi & I am an Ashkenazi whose ffamily came from the former Russian Emplire which became the Soviet Union & my Russian born cousins hate these fakers as much as I do.
They came here under false pretenses & need to go back to Russia their homeland just as the Sudanese need to go back to Sudan!!!
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רבי = רשע בועל ינשופים
You really need help dude. & again this is an English forum so please have the courtesy to post in English so everybody understands I do but others do not.
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Ron why you send me hateful comments on Facebook? Anyway I wonder why you have a pic of some white Aryan gay looking dude on the Hebrew forum, and I see you removed it on Facebook. Also why you have in FB "GOD IS DEAD" as your header? Or is that another part of your personality (like an alter ego or something? )
http://hayamin.org/forum/index.php?topic=29365.0
http://www.facebook.com/ronbenmichael99?fref=ts
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Ron why you send me hateful comments on Facebook? Anyway I wonder why you have a pic of some white Aryan gay looking dude on the Hebrew forum,
yea go cry to the aryans (as you call them) here to save you from my scary comments looooool
and I see you removed it on Facebook.
"Removed"? You're stalking me huh? filthy fag
Also why you have in FB "GOD IS DEAD" as your header?
hahahaha What a moron! did you see the rest of the pic?
(http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/226698_446802368719721_1416117605_n.jpg)
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Okay guys, I think it's time to calm down, there's more important things to do like... :nuke: :camel: :camel: :camel:
Well said
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In the video, SShas says top Kdoshim like Ha'Gaon M'Vilna are Gentiles while this Arab midget (who doesn't wear kippah nor has a cm of peyot) is a real Jew, with Arab music in the background. ANY RUSSIAN GENTILE COSSACK is better than these little subhumans
:::D :::D :::D
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All,
As I said in the other thread like this (Shas ad attacks Pruneface), this is a fight that no good JTFer should take a side in. This is a Sunni/Shi(i)t(e) war that we should keep clear of. I don't see how either Russian self-hating Jews and those they intermarry with OR the shiftless, parasitic Al Sharptons/Jesse Jacksons of Israel are worthy of any kind of defense. They are both rotten to the core. If I had my way I would throw Rabbi Ovadia Yosef and Pruneface together in the octagon and watch them do their thing. I could make a killing selling tickets to such an event! ;D
So, yeah, once more I can't see why a JTF member would side with one over the other. This is the Syrian Civil War.
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I do not stand with those comments just made (as shouldn't any other Jew here or elsewhere). Attacking someone for a very bad decision that they made (or will make) and then using and making any trash against them is wayy out of proportion (and making new things against someone) is wrong and those who are making these things are either evil or mentally ill.
Also to"just say"- if you as a Christian support Israel I suggest you personally to just stay out of our inner fights and arguments (not between here me and Ron or anything) but in the internal conflicts and mahloket of Israel and Israeli politicians and Rabbis etc.. Rav Kahane said we appreciate your support, but we appreciate your support from far away. I wouldn't get involved in the inner fights or arguments of your or any other church. You deal with it with your own members etc. and I am not the one to tell you how to run it.
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I do not stand with those comments just made (as shouldn't any other Jew here or elsewhere). Attacking someone for a very bad decision that they made (or will make) and then using and making any trash against them is wayy out of proportion (and making new things against someone) is wrong and those who are making these things are either evil or mentally ill.
Also to"just say"- if you as a Christian support Israel I suggest you personally to just stay out of our inner fights and arguments (not between here me and Ron or anything) but in the internal conflicts and mahloket of Israel and Israeli politicians and Rabbis etc.. Rav Kahane said we appreciate your support, but we appreciate your support from far away. I wouldn't get involved in the inner fights or arguments of your or any other church. You deal with it with your own members etc. and I am not the one to tell you how to run it.
So I can't have an opinion on what is going on?
You yourself are also allowed to have an opinion on Christian church politics, etc. A lot of what goes on in churches is really messed-up, even when it has nothing to do with Israel.
But getting back to the matter at hand, Chaim has spoken out about both Shas and Yisrael Beiteinu. Both are phony frauds that endanger the Jewish state.
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So I can't have an opinion on what is going on?
You yourself are also allowed to have an opinion on Christian church politics, etc. A lot of what goes on in churches is really messed-up, even when it has nothing to do with Israel.
I wouldn't dictate how they should be run or anything. It is beyond me and I would and do have absolutely no understanding about church protocol or what goes on etc. When it comes to do with Israel or me and my nation of Israel that is a different matter because it affects me and my people. Or having to do with them trying to convert my people away from Torah- Judaism that is a different matter because it affects us. On the other hand the things having to do with the church (or even countries) and what goes on inside of them I would have no business in. If they want to spend their $ a certain way and not another, what do I care? What do I know what is or is not important to them? What do I know if they have enough or not enough if they want to be more socialist or more free economy or whatever else. Its none of my business and if I would start dictating and worse start cursing and saying other such things to members of that group (church or State) I would be wayy out of line and would not expect those people to stand and take my sh^t about their group of people and the things they do within.
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I wouldn't dictate how they should be run or anything. It is beyond me and I would and do have absolutely no understanding about church protocol or what goes on etc.
That doesn't mean that you don't have the right to learn about it and give an opinion. If some pastor is a real piece of crap in your eyes, say so and we can have a discussion, and I'll probably agree with you. :-D
When it comes to do with Israel or me and my nation of Israel that is a different matter because it affects me and my people.
Isn't this what we are talking about--rabbis that make rulings that threaten or harm the nation of Israel?
Or having to do with them trying to convert my people away from Torah- Judaism that is a different matter because it affects us.
I don't think missionizing had anything to do with this discussion at all.
On the other hand the things having to do with the church (or even countries) and what goes on inside of them I would have no business in.
What if they involve general overall leftism that creates a bad situation for Israel in the long term?
If they want to spend their $ a certain way and not another, what do I care? What do I know what is or is not important to them?
It's not right for people to demand welfare from their fellow men whether they are religious or not.
What do I know if they have enough or not enough if they want to be more socialist or more free economy or whatever else.
The Israeli taxpayers should have a straight up and down vote on Shas. Let's see how far Shas gets.
Its none of my business and if I would start dictating and worse start cursing and saying other such things to members of that group (church or State) I would be wayy out of line and would not expect those people to stand and take my sh^t about their group of people and the things they do within.
Who did I curse?
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What I think would be great is if our non-Jewish members would go to their co-religionists with the message that supporting Israel is in the best interests of their churches then maybe we could accomplish more. In this way we would co-operate in spreading the message of JTF...
Maybe the insane positions of the Catholic Church and the Protestants would be altered from supporting the Jew hating enemies of Israel, to supporting the settlement of Israel by Jews..
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Again I wouldn't dictate things to do within a Church or country because it is not my group. I do not share its beliefs and ultimate interests, I do not know or see what goes on inside and I do not share its values and culture for example.
2,3, and 4- I was giving general examples
5- Involved discussion and again internal issue. Many of the voters in this particular case (Sefardim) do pay taxes, do serve in army. They want the resources allocated a certain way and not another. + everyone takes $ from government including $ for schools, T.V. ads (others) all sorts of theaters etc. Its not special treatment as the media is portraying and basically using the exact same "blood-sucking Jew" that has been portrayed by anti-semites throughout time against the Jews. Its blood libels. Now their are intricate problems and long term plans that we have for them and for the country as a whole, but to target them in this way is just wrong and only feeds into the leftists agenda- NO JUDAISM. What you think they are making all of this show for? They are claiming over and over that the "Haredim" are blood suckers and that is how they rile their support. The same is being said about the "Settlers" as well. I just saw what Yair Lapid is promoting and his only plan is to get the "blood-sucking" "Haredim and Settlers" off government payrolls. What they fail to mention is the many many other gov. programs that have been going on for years and the peanuts that the Religious have been getting and this for years. Now the Religious public is growing and all these protests and screams and media attacks (and importing Russian goyim, which wont help them at all in the end) has mostly to do with them seeing that their are loosing "their" State to the darn Orthodox.
6- Speaking in general and things like your screename (for example) mocking a Jewish combat soldier who served the nation of Israel.
Just to add 1 more thing, the media feeds certain things and people without realizing it eat their bullsh^t. The same exact propaganda is taken as truths and that is how they get control. Simillarly to how the Nazis spread their propaganda as well. Also another thing I noticed (like on FB) a lot of ignorant people having opinions to do with things they know absolutely nothing about. For example this conversion issues. They should be left to Hachamim who know the issues and know what is allowed and what is not, what is kosher and not. When to make and when not to. All of a sudden people who know nothing about the Torah, do not keep the Torah nor do they know the Halachot have opinions on these matters. I myself don't know soo I do not comment. But the audacity of some people is just mind boggling. Some people who eat pork, probably dont even believe in Judaism demanding that these "conversions" be one way or another. I saw (and I read this from Rav kahane as well) that these issues (conversions) should be left only to the Torah sages without any outside involvement no people and no to government pressures in either direction (strict or lenient).
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What I think would be great is if our non-Jewish members would go to their co-religionists with the message that supporting Israel is in the best interests of their churches then maybe we could accomplish more. In this way we would co-operate in spreading the message of JTF...
Maybe the insane positions of the Catholic Church and the Protestants would be altered from supporting the Jew hating enemies of Israel, to supporting the settlement of Israel by Jews..
We are trying to do this.
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Will write tomorrow Tag.
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Again I wouldn't dictate things to do within a Church or country because it is not my group. I do not share its beliefs and ultimate interests, I do not know or see what goes on inside and I do not share its values and culture for example.
Okay, but if you feel you know something about the subject that might be of value, feel free to do so. Believe me, in American churches all of this petty infighting and backstabbing and self-hatred takes place on a much larger scale. ::)
Involved discussion and again internal issue. Many of the voters in this particular case (Sefardim) do pay taxes, do serve in army. They want the resources allocated a certain way and not another. + everyone takes $ from government including $ for schools, T.V. ads (others) all sorts of theaters etc. Its not special treatment as the media is portraying and basically using the exact same "blood-sucking Jew" that has been portrayed by anti-semites throughout time against the Jews. Its blood libels. Now their are intricate problems and long term plans that we have for them and for the country as a whole, but to target them in this way is just wrong and only feeds into the leftists agenda- NO JUDAISM. What you think they are making all of this show for? They are claiming over and over that the "Haredim" are blood suckers and that is how they rile their support. The same is being said about the "Settlers" as well. I just saw what Yair Lapid is promoting and his only plan is to get the "blood-sucking" "Haredim and Settlers" off government payrolls. What they fail to mention is the many many other gov. programs that have been going on for years and the peanuts that the Religious have been getting and this for years.
I don't follow any of the Israeli media and I don't care to. I get my information on Israel from one source only, the one and only Chaim Ben Pesach of JTF. I trust what Chaim says more than any person or any other group when it comes to Israeli affairs and matters.
I don't believe that anyone should be living off the dole, religious or not, period. Unless someone is truly so very disabled that they cannot work, nobody should lead a lifestyle of mooching. If poor Sfaradim truly are having trouble finding jobs, Shas should be fighting for policies that allow their members to find them, not demanding baksheesh from the Israeli public. If Israelis want to freely give to Shas and its institutions, more power to them; they should not be forced to. I don't think that evangelical churches should be getting handouts from the United States government either. I don't care if someone is black, white, Jewish, Christian, Hispanic, secular, devout, etc.--you should work for a living and that's that. People should stand up to rackets and shakedowns no matter who is behind them.
Chaim Ben Pesach himself has stated clearly that only a genuine select few Torahic students should receive the scholarship living stipend and that he would reform the system. I don't know as much about what goes on as he does but I trust his judgment completely.
Now the Religious public is growing and all these protests and screams and media attacks (and importing Russian goyim, which wont help them at all in the end) has mostly to do with them seeing that their are loosing "their" State to the darn Orthodox.
Of course what Lieberman and Yisrael Beiteinu and their constituency is doing is wrong, and evil to the core. But Shas is not the entity to be calling the kettle back. Both are monstrous organizations that are equally hazardous to the survival of the Jewish state. If they destroy each other, more power to them.
6- Speaking in general and things like your screename (for example) mocking a Jewish combat soldier who served the nation of Israel.
In the words of Chaim Ben Pesach, "Bennett is an evil opportunist and a monstrous fraud." The multigajillionaire Bennett cares about the same thing Shas cares about--filling his pockets with gelt.
Aside from that though, why am I supposed to be impressed by his military service? Thanks to the draft the vast majority of Israelis have served. The vast majority of Israeli soldiers would be willing to ethnically cleanse their fellow Jews. Bennett himself has said that orders must be obeyed at all times and that he would be open to throwing Jews out of their homes. Is that a good, honorable Jewish veteran that we should be praising?
Just to add 1 more thing, the media feeds certain things and people without realizing it eat their bullsh^t. The same exact propaganda is taken as truths and that is how they get control. Simillarly to how the Nazis spread their propaganda as well. Also another thing I noticed (like on FB) a lot of ignorant people having opinions to do with things they know absolutely nothing about. For example this conversion issues. They should be left to Hachamim who know the issues and know what is allowed and what is not, what is kosher and not. When to make and when not to. All of a sudden people who know nothing about the Torah, do not keep the Torah nor do they know the Halachot have opinions on these matters. I myself don't know soo I do not comment. But the audacity of some people is just mind boggling. Some people who eat pork, probably dont even believe in Judaism demanding that these "conversions" be one way or another. I saw (and I read this from Rav kahane as well) that these issues (conversions) should be left only to the Torah sages without any outside involvement no people and no to government pressures in either direction (strict or lenient).
Once more I couldn't give a flip less about what the Israeli media preaches or what Shas is fighting for in these ads. Nobody here (including myself) argued against denouncing intermarriage or for allowing Russian Gentiles to make fake conversions. We said that Shas is the wrong voice to be issuing these condemnations. For every evil thing that Likud or the Likud puppets Yisrael Beiteinu have done, Shas has done some other thing that is equally evil. I'm not willing to listen to a damn word that comes out of the mouths of those shakedown artists or that lying Russian serpent and his crowd.
Shas has Jewish blood on its hands and for that I will never forgive them or their leader. Oslo could not have happened without Shas. Instead of making the principled choice by refusing to tolerate any surrender of Jewish land or make any deals with Nazi leaders, Shas went along with Oslo in exchange for a hefty bribegrant from Yitzhak Rabin (ysv). That's how all of Shas' halachic rulings go. Right after Shas issues some halacha justifying an Israeli government decision, poof--they and their madrasasschools get another big infusion of gelt. If that is a coincidence each and every time, then Shas is certainly rolling a pretty anointed pair of dice.
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As JSNTN is not a Jew, don't expect him to understand.
I won't even begin to try to explain why so much of what he is doing is wrong. You know Chaim doesn't support name-calling and disparaging a Jew in public. While he will say these things he says them because he is in a position to make such a comment. He doesn't enjoy doing this, but as a Jew he can rebuke his fellow Jew and in the case of danger of life he can warn others. Because Chaim says things is not a reason to propagate hatred. And name-calling and disparaging comments do not help Chaims cause.
I realize you have the right to express yourself. But a Jew with a conscience goes about things in a much different manner and approach than you take.
I hope you understand what I am saying is not meant to belittle you but to enlighten you as to why some find your approach troubling.
Regarding a Jew being able to tell Christians how to manage their churches. We Jews have been on the receiving end of much evil from the various churches in the lands we have lived. And when a Jew expresses his ideas about the workings of the church we get ostracised and ignored. Look at how much the Catholic church cared about Jewish reconciliation when they chose Ratzinger to be the pope. How about that Bishop who denies the Holocaust. The church re-admitted him after a little lip service and he still denies the Shoah. The church cares diddly-squat or less about the opinion of the Jewish people, let alone the Jewish state. We don't even attempt to involve ourselves with their policies as it would be futile...
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I did not insult Rabbi Ovadia Yosef. About the worst I said is that I cannot forgive him for signing on to Oslo, which is the exact same thing as what Chaim said.
Regarding speaking about historical church anti-Semitism, who is stopping you?
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I did not insult Rabbi Ovadia Yosef. About the worst I said is that I cannot forgive him for signing on to Oslo, which is the exact same thing as what Chaim said.
Regarding speaking about historical church anti-Semitism, who is stopping you?
Yes, he made a great mistake on Oslo and I hope he can admit his mistake, and atone for any lives lost as a result...
That is not the issue JSNTN, my point was that when Jews attempt to influence the workings of Christian organizations we are met with a variety of antisemitism (except for those of the Interfaith variety who really seek to missionize us). When it comes to issues of supporting Israel we have the evangelicals, who for the most part I accept their support so long as there is not an attempt to convert the Jews once they settle in the land. But I also have reservations about such an alliance but I will accept that no matter what their intentions are, in the end the issue of Moshiach will be decided one way or another. But most other churchs take a decidedly anti-Israel stance and any attempt for Jews to influence it are met with more belief that Jews want to control the world, etc., etc...
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Muman, everyone here at JTF denounces these so-called "churches" which are in actuality sodomite whorehouses of Stone Age anti-Semitic envy. That's what JTF is for. But we also denounce Jewish frauds and traitors as well. I don't see a whole lot of difference between Shas and evil quasi-Christian organizations, to be entirely honest. Not one bit.
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"Once more I couldn't give a flip less about what the Israeli media preaches"
You are taking their lines and taking their propaganda as truth.
2- You do not understand that the State of Israel was established very much by socialist/communist mentality. Your life experiences (in the U.S.A.) are extremely different then those who were and are in Israel. Israel now is getting out of much socialism but the issues are wayy to complex without knowing the history of the state, without knowing the mentality and the Haskaffa (world outlook) of some people like Rav Ovadia Yosef, and Haredim in general . It is wrong and I do not agree with it but I would not and do not call their actions "treason". Perhaps they would look at someone like Rav Kahane as doing something very wrong and endangering Jewish lives. They believe that if their would be lasting peace they we can give away land. It is wrong, others Rabbis as well have criticized that position, but it is a Halahic discussion and name calling and bashing by people who do not even know the sources (with all due respect) is out of line. We argue in Halahic terms and with sources of the Torah and our Sages.
I brought the Churces as an example of something I am not a part of soo I would not understand enough to make comments and decisions about those beliefs).
Also dont get me wrong I am not too happy with a lot that has been going on as well, but their are levels of tolerance and criticism. Also level of showing oneself correctly without having to create extreme antagonism and having people then not listen to one at all instead of arguing with people in their terms.
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You are taking their lines and taking their propaganda as truth.
No, I am taking what Chaim has said as truth. The Israeli media can go straight to hell; screw them.
2- You do not understand that the State of Israel was established very much by socialist/communist mentality. Your life experiences (in the U.S.A.) are extremely different then those who were and are in Israel. Israel now is getting out of much socialism but the issues are wayy to complex without knowing the history of the state, without knowing the mentality and the Haskaffa (world outlook) of some people like Rav Ovadia Yosef, and Haredim in general . It is wrong and I do not agree with it but I would not and do not call their actions "treason".
Agreeing to support suicidal decisions that led to intifadas that cost the lives of thousands of Jews in exchange for a nice fat welfare check is treason and if there was any justice in this world Shas would have been charged with it.
Perhaps they would look at someone like Rav Kahane as doing something very wrong and endangering Jewish lives.
If Rabbi Ovadia Yosef had spoken out at the time that all of Israel wanted to ban and exile HaRav, he likely could have put a stop to the witchhunt against him. The fact that he did not doesn't do much for my opinion of him.
They believe that if their would be lasting peace they we can give away land.
So does Labor and Likud and every other mainstream Israeli there is. I expect more from those who claim to be devoutly religious. I expect average Americans to be brainwashed into supporting Islam and so take it with a grain of salt, but when professing Christians do it, I have zero tolerance for it.
It is wrong, others Rabbis as well have criticized that position, but it is a Halahic discussion and name calling and bashing by people who do not even know the sources (with all due respect) is out of line.
I did not call ROY any names. Naftali Bennett is not a Torah scholar however and must not be treated like one. He is a two-bit shyster conman politician, period.
We argue in Halahic terms and with sources of the Torah and our Sages.
I brought the Churces as an example of something I am not a part of soo I would not understand enough to make comments and decisions about those beliefs).
If you see allegedly devout Christians doing evil things, then by all means speak up about it.
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"Agreeing to support suicidal decisions that led to intifadas that cost the lives of thousands of Jews"
That is the thing, they did not see it that way for sure. In fact some of them would and do think that the other side would lead to suicide (fighting and kicking the Arabs out). You just do not understand their mentality. That includes some leftists as well. Jews have been in the galut for about 2,000 years. Many still do not think in nationalistic terms. You are a non-Jew who has your country and different mentality. You haven't been a wanderer for thousands of years and do not have the whole world pressuring you and your country. Israel is a different situation. Yes we (the Real Right-wing Jews) must fight and break this mentality and wrong irrational ways, but non-the-less they exist within the psyche of the Jewish people today and for these many many years. Jews just got out of the Holocaust as well where most people's relatives were butchered in that inferno. We will and are breaking those mentalities that exist and many are removing these things, but their is the correct way and the incorrect way to battle these things. Calling inflammatory names and other such things will not change the situation and in many cases will and does make thing much worse.
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I don't know the halacha and don't really need to. That isn't my place. My place is to listen to Chaim and trust that what he is saying is correct. You're right, Shas probably didn't think of the cost in Jewish lives when ROY signed on to Oslo--that's the entire point. He didn't care enough to think about the long-term ramifications of it at all. He just thought about the kickbacks that his party would get if they assented to what Rabin was pushing. To me that's just as bad if not worse than deliberately turning against your fellow Jews.
The Shas situation is very similar to the bind the entire Israeli government is in. The Israeli government and people are scared to death of doing anything that "defies" the United States because of the threat of losing their aid hanging over their heads. This has led to Israel becoming a colony, a vassal, a puppet of the U.S. and at this point Israel's existence is seriously threatened as a result (i.e. because Israel refuses to attack Iran without American authorization). Shas will not do anything whatsoever to rock the boat so long as the gravy train keeps coming in. The government should not be giving anybody welfare--religious or not. If Shas really needs the funds it clamors for it should set itself up as a nonprofit organization and seek alms from the Israeli people of their own free will. This business of having halacha tied to Israeli government policy reeks to the high heavens both to Chaim and myself.
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I will quickly respond and that will be the end of it, I don't feel like repeating over and over and you not understanding it.
"I don't know the halacha and don't really need to."
Yes. Great, discussion should be over.
"didn't think of the cost in Jewish lives"
I never said that. The opposite, they did think that not doing anything will cause Jewish lives (which is not true). And hold in theory that if their is real lasting peace we can give away lives. Rav Kahane on the other hand does not hold of such and saying that even when costing lives (like in a war) land is to be conquered (in theory).
About the supposed $, I'm tired of hearing this over and over, you say the media doesn't matter yett you repeat their lines.
"This business of having halacha tied to Israeli government"
What are you talking about, eventually we (we the Jews) will reinstate a system run by Halacha (Jewish law). It is just a matter of time and that is part of our national goal. The whole point is Halacha.
Like I said, (I'll give better example). You would feel pissed (and would see that I'm out of line) if I talked about members of your family and how you should run your household, what should be and what shouldn't be done. It is non of my bizness. End of discussion.
Our mission is to work for the betterment of my Jewish nation, their can be 1000 people saying all sorts of inflammatory comments (and repeating all sorts of things) and it will not get anything while their could be those (and I try myself as well) that can bring a Rambam and the opposition from others that disagree with us is over. They will and can get the point. All this bombastic comments and put-downs and all other sorts of things not needed nor wanted (and they can make things much worse and make the rest of us look horrible, ignorant and look like Reshaim (evildoers) only interested in bashing and fighting).
End of discussion.
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I think we'll just have to agree to disagree then Tag. I am fine with that. I do request that you stop claiming that I am listening to the Israeli media, however. I'm not. I don't give a crud what they say and they can all drop dead for all I care. I don't get any information from them because I live in America and don't know Hevreet. I get my information from JTF and JTF members. Shas are shakedown artists that hate Ashkenazim and will do anything from a buck from the Israeli government. Yisrael Beitenu are secular stormtroopers that hate Sfaradim and support Russian Gentile Nazis taking over Israel. As far as I am concerned those two factions are Sunnis and Shiites. I've said all that I need to say, so have a good day.
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1 last thing I would like to add on this- Rav Kahane ZTL HYD would never stand for some of the things being said in his name. NEVER. Even those who were anti-zionist he still respected them and did hold that they are entitled to their opinions and that he has respect for them and to their opinions, but also differs with their haskaffa (outlook) and results. Those who hold by them should hold by them. This was a man who stood for the truth and stood for peace among Am Yisrael. I can guarantee you that he wouldn't and didn't go around calling everyone who disagreed with him a "traitor" and other such things. Yes he did reserve this to some "special" people, but it was rare. His mission was for the good of Am Yisrael.
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Chaim himself said that Naftali Bennett is an evil fraud. Do you disagree with that?
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Chaim himself said that Naftali Bennett is an evil fraud. Do you disagree with that?
Don't remember him saying that and those exact words (I do listen to ask JTF). But if he said that then yes I do disagree. I would not call him an "evil fraud" in those exact words.
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Don't remember him saying that and those exact words (I do listen to ask JTF). But if he said that then yes I do disagree. I would not call him an "evil fraud" in those exact words.
His exact words were that he is an evil opportunist and disastrous fraud, and he wrote that on this forum.
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Rav Benyamin Kahane on the "Conversion Law"
(I think its Rav Benyamin Kahane and not Rav Meir Kahane, but need to double check).
First, a little background. The Law of Return gives Israeli citizenship to a Jew (racism!). Twenty years ago, they tried to define in law what is the definition of “Jew”, and they determined: “He who is born from a Jewish mother, or converted”. The only problem is, they forgot to define what ismeant by “converted”. Since then, the religious parties, and rightly so, fought to have the definition changed to “converted according to Jewish law”. After all, the loophole that exists threatens a tragedy to the Jewish People, where, especially overseas, gentiles pass reform or conservative conversions and can then marry in Israel. And so for many years, the religious parties fought for the “Who is a Jew” legislation in the Knesset, but they failed to pass it, partly because they did not deem it important enough to cause a crisis in the coalition or to bring down the government because of it. (In this most recent government, it is Kahalani and his “Third Way” party that votes against it, preventing it from passing.)
Lately, they stopped even trying to pass the law “Who is a Jew”, and started pushing for what is called the “Conversion Law”, which only applies to conversions in ISRAEL, barring reform and conservative conversions. But it does not determine that such false conversions ABROAD are invalid. And so, the major point has been missed, since it is the conversions abroad which constitute the major problem. Worse than this, by settling for the”Conversion Law”, and abandoning the struggle for “Who is a Jew”, in itself scores a victory for reform Jewry. It gives them encouragement, because it means that in a practical sense, the State of Israel recognizes their false conversions in the U.S.. Obviously, none of this is enough for the leftists or the reform and conservative self-haters. They don’t even accept this limited and wimpy “Conversion Law”, as they unleash their “heavy artillery”in the media and judiciary to freeze it!
Such a “compromise” by the religious parties legitimizes the reform and conservative movements, and tells the young Jew it’s not so bad. If they had held strong and stubborn, it could have gotten a message through to the young Jew that if the rabbis are SO against it, maybe it’s something one shouldn’t do. Now they have given it the approval, that such conversions inthe US are “kosher”.
Too bad the religious Jews are not able to understand that the struggle here is for the ENTIRE BALLGAME, and they should never give up on the “Who is a Jew?” law, which is so basic. By doing so, they lend a hand to the huge assimilation and elimination of Judaism in the US. This is the result when instead of going for all the marbles, they try to at least “save something”. It is this attitude that has been destroying Israel on every level. While the leftists go for it all, (for by blurring over what “Jew” is, they accomplish their task of assimilation), the religious are always trying to”save what is left”, and in the end this strategy always backfires…
http://rabbikahane.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/conversion-law/