JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on January 22, 2013, 05:06:11 PM
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Hasidic "Counselor" Sentenced To 103 Years For Multiple Molestation Counts
http://www.jta.org/news/article/2013/01/22/3117501/nechemya-weberman-violated-at-least-ten-other-victims
What a big surprise that this filth comes out of the Satmar Nazi cult. Satmarism makes Shiite Islam and Santeria look like enlightened and progressive religions. The truth of the matter is that Satmarism itself is violating children, not just one or two high-profile pedophiles in it. May this satanic cult be extinguished from planet earth when Sh*tlam is (or better yet before).
WFTMPTC
PS: You notice he still got a lesser sentence than Jonathan Pollard.
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Not all Satmar are like this.... And Satmar is a Chassidic sect which, while anti-Zionist, they are observant and their previous Rabbis are respected amongst many Chassidic sects. I will curse the Nueta Karta but I draw a distinction with Satmar. I do know a Chassid who was involved in Satmar and he is a great Jew, and he is now pro-Zionist...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satmar_(Hasidic_dynasty)
Satmar is claimed to be one of the largest and most influential Hasidic movements in existence today, but formal demographic comparisons with other Hasidim are not available. It is believed to number close to 130,000 adherents (including men, women and children), and is rapidly growing due to the extremely high birth rate of the group. This population figure does not include a number of smaller and related anti-Zionist Hungarian Hasidic groups who align themselves with Satmar.[3]
One thing is clear... I STRONGLY disagree with their understanding of the Three Oaths and the zionist cause... They are entitled to their opinion but they should not act against the Jewish state (as the NK do)...
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Some material about the 'Three Oaths' reproduced from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satmar_(Hasidic_dynasty)
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Although it was certainly not the only reason for his opinion, one of the core citations from classical Judaic sources cited by Rav Yoel for his opposition to modern Zionism was that of the Three Oaths mentioned in the Talmud (Kesuboth 111A) which discusses a passage from the Song of Songs in the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) in which God made the Israelites promise "to wait for Him before arousing His love":
"King Solomon in Song of Songs thrice adjured the 'daughters of Jerusalem' not to arouse or bestir the love until it is ready.' The Talmud explains that we are bound by three strong oaths not to ascend to the Holy Land as a group using force, not to rebel against the governments of countries in which we live, and not by our sins, to prolong the coming of moshiach"[9]
A variant interpretation of the three oaths has the third oath being that God would not allow the non-Jewish world to "excessively" persecute the Jews. Rabbi Teitelbaum expressly held that the oaths were not dependent upon one another.[10]
In VaYoel Moshe Teitelbaum explicitly declared that, from the time of the very inception of the Zionist movement in the 1890s, the Zionists violated the three oaths, and thereby caused the Holocaust, as well as all wars, terrorism, and violence in modern Israel, and most anti-Semitism around the world since that time, as a result:
"...it has been these Zionist groups that have attracted the Jewish people and have violated the Oath against establishing a Jewish entity before the arrival of the Messiah. It is because of the Zionists that six million Jews were killed."[11]
In keeping with the three oaths, Satmar Hasidim were strongly opposed to the creation of modern Israel through violence and antagonism against gentile nations such as the Ottomans and Britain. In the years following the Holocaust, Rabbi Teitelbaum undertook to maintain and strengthen this position, as did many other Torah Jews and communities. Rabbi Teitelbaum declared that the State of Israel was a violation of Jewish teachings. This was both because of the Zionists' violation of the traditional belief that Jews must wait for the Messiah to re-create Israel, and also because its founders included many personalities who were both hostile to Orthodox Judaism, or simply indifferent to it. Rabbi Teitelbaum believed the creation of the State of Israel, against the oaths described in Ketubot, constituted a form of impatience. In keeping with the Talmud's warnings that impatience for God's love and redemption can lead to grave danger, the Satmar Hasidim have often interpreted the constant wars and terrorism in Israel as fulfilment of that prophecy.[citation needed]
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I hope he endures what he did to that girl. Wait, he might like it, so forget that.
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Would it be bad to wish that he be reincarnated as a young girl who is the victim of a pedophile?
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Would it be bad to wish that he be reincarnated as a young girl who is the victim of a pedophile?
Who knows. I trust G-d knows what He's doing.
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The Satmar "rabbi" deliberately caused tens of thousands of his own zombies to be murdered by the Nazis in Hungary during WWII so that he could save his own tuchis via the Kastner (ysv) train. If that's not the epitome of evil I don't know what is. So maybe this pedo isn't really all that bad after all (in relation to Teitelbaum).
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In this case I dont know if it was true or not. Personally its not up to be to judge. Just because he is a Satmar doesn't mean he is evil nor should I right away accept what was said by the court. Basically it was his word vs. her word that is all. Soo for me its not for me to decide nor judge.
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Hasidic "Counselor" Sentenced To 103 Years For Multiple Molestation Counts
http://www.jta.org/news/article/2013/01/22/3117501/nechemya-weberman-violated-at-least-ten-other-victims
What a big surprise that this filth comes out of the Satmar Nazi cult. Satmarism makes Shiite Islam and Santeria look like enlightened and progressive religions. The truth of the matter is that Satmarism itself is violating children, not just one or two high-profile pedophiles in it. May this satanic cult be extinguished from planet earth when Sh*tlam is (or better yet before).
WFTMPTC
PS: You notice he still got a lesser sentence than Jonathan Pollard.
I am pleased to see this menuval will spend life behind bars. For sex offenders this about as tough as its going to get in terms of sentencing. Big win for the prosecution. And a slam dunk at that.
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Menuval? Please translate for me so that I can use this term!
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Regarding this case, if the man is guilty he should be punished for it... But as Tag said it is best to wait for the evidence to be revealed...
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Regarding this case, if the man is guilty he should be punished for it... But as Tag said it is best to wait for the evidence to be revealed...
He was convicted and sentenced already. The trial is finished.
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I am pleased to see this menuval will spend life behind bars. For sex offenders this about as tough as its going to get in terms of sentencing. Big win for the prosecution. And a slam dunk at that.
I wouldn't have much of a problem with getting sex offenders behind bars, but this case had his word over her word. (she is a late teen from what I remember and a OTD kid). She was known to cause some trouble before and I'm not saying she or he is lying. I just wouldn't put someone behind bars in this type of situation. Also their is much much bias against Hassidim and people who dress the way that he did. It is subconscious in many ways. Soo I would not necessarily trust the legal system. Now if they had hard evidence that is a different story, but they simply did not. Now you have the press and generally those who hate either Hassidim or Jews in general gloating about this.
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I wouldn't have much of a problem with getting sex offenders behind bars, but this case had his word over her word. (she is a late teen from what I remember and a OTD kid). She was known to cause some trouble before and I'm not saying she or he is lying. I just wouldn't put someone behind bars in this type of situation. Also their is much much bias against Hassidim and people who dress the way that he did. It is subconscious in many ways. Soo I would not necessarily trust the legal system. Now if they had hard evidence that is a different story, but they simply did not. Now you have the press and generally those who hate either Hassidim or Jews in general gloating about this.
And you know this because...?
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I wouldn't have much of a problem with getting sex offenders behind bars, but this case had his word over her word. (she is a late teen from what I remember and a OTD kid). She was known to cause some trouble before and I'm not saying she or he is lying. I just wouldn't put someone behind bars in this type of situation. Also their is much much bias against Hassidim and people who dress the way that he did. It is subconscious in many ways. Soo I would not necessarily trust the legal system. Now if they had hard evidence that is a different story, but they simply did not. Now you have the press and generally those who hate either Hassidim or Jews in general gloating about this.
Sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about. This case has been all over the papers including the attempt by Weberman and his supporters to intimidate the witness. Including when his associates (looked like a few lazy bum so-called yeshiva bachurs) were taking pictures on their cell phones of the witness while she was on the stand, to which the judge remarked that they were behaving like the bloods or crips. (and of course barred them from the court room). There were other victims but they cannot come forward due to many many reasons, not least of which is the societal pressure they are under and the ostracizing they will receive if they do.
As far as I know, this girl is actually NOT OTD, she's married now, and she was a so called "at-risk youth" and this beast ripped out her neshama.
By the way, are you aware that he had these private "counseling sessions" with young women like her routinely with the door locked?! Even without knowing what he was doing behind those doors, he was openly in violation of the halacha by having the door locked, and people just allowed it to go on. He had "connections" so they also raised 500,000 dollars from some gullible marks for what they called his defense fund at a rally/fundraiser event condemning the victims and villifying them claiming the rapist was innocent to shnorr money. Now that is shnorring. All this stuff has been in the newspapers and the news programs on TV so add the fact that it's a gigantic chillul Hashem.
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This is all proof positive of why this disgusting, monstrous, satanic cult must be destroyed. They treat their own women and girls like Muslims do. This isn't Judaism, this is the NoI hybridized with Asatru. My heart hurts for all of the poor girls that are born into this living hell and have absolutely nowhere to go.
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Also their is much much bias against Hassidim and people who dress the way that he did. It is subconscious in many ways. Soo I would not necessarily trust the legal system.
I generally do not trust that the legal system will be harsh enough on this type of abuser animal, but for once they gave a pretty harsh sentence and it's a clear message that this game will not be tolerated. It will cause other victims to come forward and the silencing or threatening/intimidation of the victims and their families will not go on unchecked as it has in the past. The judge had no bias against hassidim or the way they dress, in fact he was shocked at the young men who were taking pics of the victim to post online because he was astounded that they would behave like black gangmembers.
The victims were girls who wore and still wear chassidic garb, so how can his garb be impacting his court case? Everyone involved is a chassid.
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Sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about. This case has been all over the papers including the attempt by Weberman and his supporters to intimidate the witness. Including when his associates (looked like a few lazy bum so-called yeshiva bachurs) were taking pictures on their cell phones of the witness while she was on the stand, to which the judge remarked that they were behaving like the bloods or crips. (and of course barred them from the court room). There were other victims but they cannot come forward due to many many reasons, not least of which is the societal pressure they are under and the ostracizing they will receive if they do.
As far as I know, this girl is actually NOT OTD, she's married now, and she was a so called "at-risk youth" and this beast ripped out her neshama.
By the way, are you aware that he had these private "counseling sessions" with young women like her routinely with the door locked?! Even without knowing what he was doing behind those doors, he was openly in violation of the halacha by having the door locked, and people just allowed it to go on. He had "connections" so they also raised 500,000 dollars from some gullible marks for what they called his defense fund at a rally/fundraiser event condemning the victims and villifying them claiming the rapist was innocent to shnorr money. Now that is shnorring. All this stuff has been in the newspapers and the news programs on TV so add the fact that it's a gigantic chillul Hashem.
I was recently discussing the laws of Yichud with a friend. Indeed a frum man should never be alone in a locked room with a woman. This is obvious violation of the Halacha...
I do not defend him... My first response was a defense of the Satmar Chassidic sect in general (even though they are very wrong concerning their stance concerning Zionism)...
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Anybody who would defend this monster needs a 72-hour commitment. Anyone who would defend this Nazi cult in general should question why they're at JTF.
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Anybody who would defend this monster needs a 72-hour commitment. Anyone who would defend this Nazi cult in general should question why they're at JTF.
Not exactly true... Satmar are Jews and we are commanded to love all Jews. I even think Chaim doesn't curse Satmar, and makes sure the express his anger at NK...
PS: Since when have you been the one to decide who should be at JTF?
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the last post (well from 4 posts back I guess) proves why these things should not be for the public like this. Pure Jew-hatred. Pure and simple. "Waiting" or whatever you call yourself now, does not understand these things and its a shame that we allow people from the outside to dictate what or who is a Jew and the inner questions in our Religion and people. And how is he going to destroy Satmar? How? Only by murdering them correct?
It was in the papers, SOO? That makes the verdict correct? Like I said it was her word over his word. Why is this being publicized in such a disgusting way where these vile animals are gloating over the fact that an "Orthodox Jew" is being sent to prison. They got one very well. also in such situations (one persons word over another) it is always better to let someone go instead of putting an innocent person behind bars.
Besides this was in NYC who do you think was in the witness stand? MMhMM. and many people in general would love to see a Jew especially someone dressed like him behind bars or killed.
Also the punishment is much more then the crime (in this case since she was more older) and not a child persay but a teen( still not good to do) but a teenager definitely have more choice and freedom then a child.
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the last post (well from 4 posts back I guess) proves why these things should not be for the public like this. Pure Jew-hatred. Pure and simple. "Waiting" or whatever you call yourself now, does not understand these things and its a shame that we allow people from the outside to dictate what or who is a Jew and the inner questions in our Religion and people. And how is he going to destroy Satmar? How? Only by murdering them correct?
It was in the papers, SOO? That makes the verdict correct? Like I said it was her word over his word. Why is this being publicized in such a disgusting way where these vile animals are gloating over the fact that an "Orthodox Jew" is being sent to prison. They got one very well. also in such situations (one persons word over another) it is always better to let someone go instead of putting an innocent person behind bars.
Besides this was in NYC who do you think was in the witness stand? MMhMM. and many people in general would love to see a Jew especially someone dressed like him behind bars or killed.
Also the punishment is much more then the crime (in this case since she was more older) and not a child persay but a teen( still not good to do) but a teenager definitely have more choice and freedom then a child.
Yes I agree that he is a real putz... He thinks he knows about being Jewish and what is acceptable from a Jewish standpoint. But in reality all he does is imitate Chaim (If Chaim said it, He can say it too)... I think it is a result of his immaturity.
PS: I fully agree that threads like this invite the Nazis to lump all Jews into a category of child molesters. And 'Waiting' just feeds their hatred like a dog...
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PS: Since when have you been the one to decide who should be at JTF?
I know, I'm tires of him saying these type of things. Or just jumping ooh well Chaim said this or that. I dont know what chaim said in each case but this isn't a cult from what I know, soo we don't idolize any human being and use what G-D gave us- our own minds.
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The prosecution claimed there are at least 6 other victims, all of whom will not come forward. The NY Daily News did its own investigation and found 4 other women who confided to them but also refuse to come forward as accusers.
With these type of cases with so many victims, where there is smoke, there is fire. And to believe otherwise is to believe in fairy tales.
Furthermore the very respected and well known Rabbi Yakov Horowitz has been in contact with some of the other victims who confided in him regarding details of the abuse.
The article quoted him:
“The intimate acts he was performing were intended as a form of repentance for sins committed in their previous lifetimes,” Rabbi Yakov Horowitz from Monsey, N.Y., in whom other victims had confided, told the Daily News.
No, I am quite sure that the esteemed Rabbi Horowitz would never EVER (chas veshalom) slander the Jewish community (any community within the Jewish people) with outright lies or made up stories. Just the fact that he is upholding the victim's claims is already enough for you to say, just how much evil has this person (Weberman) done?
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NK is a spinoff of Satmarism. They are slightly more extreme (which really just means that they say what they feel a bit more openly) and that's it.
Here is another horror story about a crime that was perpetrated by this misogynistic murder cult that, as KWRBT pointed out, apes (no pun intended) the behavior of black Muslim gang members:
http://nymag.com/news/features/48532/
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NK is a spinoff of Satmarism. They are slightly more extreme (which really just means that they say what they feel a bit more openly) and that's it.
Here is another horror story about a crime that was perpetrated by this misogynistic murder cult that, as KWRBT pointed out, apes (no pun intended) the behavior of black Muslim gang members:
http://nymag.com/news/features/48532/
There is no crime in being a religious anti-zionist. There is a crime in helping the enemies of the Jewish people. This is why NK is to be cursed, and Satmar can be reasoned with... I have known Satmars which can be reasoned with...
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It was in the papers, SOO? That makes the verdict correct?
LOL, really?
Oh yeah, you're right, they probably criminally intimidated the victim only because they weren't worried at all about her testimony and because the big tzaddik is completely innocent. Yeah, that's believable!
Like I said it was her word over his word. Why is this being publicized in such a disgusting way
I don't see anything wrong with the article that was posted here to start this thread. What is wrong or disgusting about it? This was a known case all over the news and papers, and now the verdict is being made known. They brought the attention on themselves by making a massive Satmar fundraiser to raise money for Weberman when he was facing trial. Now he and his associates get what they deserve, and the rest of us also suffer because of their transgressions.
also in such situations (one persons word over another) it is always better to let someone go instead of putting an innocent person behind bars.
Legal system doesn't work this way, and there were more than one but because of a culture of intimidation and ostracism, the other victims felt they could not step forward.
Besides this was in NYC who do you think was in the witness stand? MMhMM. and many people in general would love to see a Jew especially someone dressed like him behind bars or killed.
His accuser is a chasidic woman who dresses like a chasidic woman. Why would they want him in jail any more than they want her to lose her case? You are blinded by your bias.
Also the punishment is much more then the crime (in this case since she was more older) and not a child persay but a teen( still not good to do) but a teenager definitely have more choice and freedom then a child.
The US law considers a teenager a child. She was underage. And she was abused for 3 years from the age of 12 to age of 15. And you say that this punishment is too much?! !?
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Vile. And you say you support Jews? All I see is how you go on and on and on and on and on about how these Jews are bad or those Jews are bad, how this or that is wrong with Jews or Jewish people and your a supporter of Jews correct? I see you only support 1, ookay 2 Jews, and that is about it.
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the last post (well from 4 posts back I guess) proves why these things should not be for the public like this. Pure Jew-hatred. Pure and simple. "Waiting" or whatever you call yourself now, does not understand these things and its a shame that we allow people from the outside to dictate what or who is a Jew and the inner questions in our Religion and people. And how is he going to destroy Satmar? How? Only by murdering them correct?
It was in the papers, SOO? That makes the verdict correct? Like I said it was her word over his word. Why is this being publicized in such a disgusting way where these vile animals are gloating over the fact that an "Orthodox Jew" is being sent to prison. They got one very well. also in such situations (one persons word over another) it is always better to let someone go instead of putting an innocent person behind bars.
Besides this was in NYC who do you think was in the witness stand? MMhMM. and many people in general would love to see a Jew especially someone dressed like him behind bars or killed.
Also the punishment is much more then the crime (in this case since she was more older) and not a child persay but a teen( still not good to do) but a teenager definitely have more choice and freedom then a child.
Ahem, the victim was a Satmar Jew also, as is everybody connected to this case. So anti-Semites want to see justice for Jewish girls that were raped? Such is a strange breed of Jew-haters.
There is no crime in being an anti-zionist.
What about the hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews (many, if not most, of them Satmars) who were murdered when the Satmar "rebbe" and his buttbuddy Adolf Kastner sold them out so that they could save their own hides? This human sewage deserves the worst of all curses.
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What I am amazed by is that someone who openly flaunted halacha by having locked "counseling" sessions with teenage girls, and whose associates threatened the witness mafioso style, and together with other useful idiots ostracized the victim from the entire society, is being given the benefit of the doubt by Jews on the forum!?
You should defer to Rabbi Yakov Horowitz and drop this matter. Otherwise you just dig yourselves bigger holes.
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His accuser is a chasidic woman who dresses like a chasidic woman. Why would they want him in jail any more than they want her to lose her case? You are blinded by your bias.
It doesnt matter. It is the same as a white right-wing Christian being in the stand for a Muslim against Muslim. Lets say it was a Muslim women wanting to put a Muslim man to jail, you think they wouldn't have a bias against the man and put him to jail (well they would be biased to make him guilty).
Also we aren't posting the many sex abuse cases of churches and pastors and Christian people in general here are we? Yett this happens probably all the time.
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Everything that the great DownwithIslam said about these chazirs is correct. This is a woman-hating Nazi cult, pure and simple.
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It doesnt matter. It is the same as a white right-wing Christian being in the stand for a Muslim against Muslim. Lets say it was a Muslim women wanting to put a Muslim man to jail, you think they wouldn't have a bias against the man and put him to jail (well they would be biased to make him guilty).
Also we aren't posting the many sex abuse cases of churches and pastors and Christian people in general here are we? Yett this happens probably all the time.
Yawn. You have no case so you are trying to drag the "Christian church" back into this as usual. Fine, whatever, you're right. But show me average Christians that defend pedophile pastors.
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It doesnt matter. It is the same as a white right-wing Christian being in the stand for a Muslim against Muslim. Lets say it was a Muslim women wanting to put a Muslim man to jail, you think they wouldn't have a bias against the man and put him to jail (well they would be biased to make him guilty).
Also we aren't posting the many sex abuse cases of churches and pastors and Christian people in general here are we? Yett this happens probably all the time.
I agree that these posts are not constructive as we dont know how people react to it. I see that these stories feed jew hatred. It is constructive to learn the laws of yichud in order to help prevent these kinds of things. I just hope that justice is served...
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It is wise to read Rabbi Horowitz's explanations of this situation as well as his useful advice to parents.
http://www.rabbihorowitz.com/PYes/ArticleDetails.cfm?Book_ID=1630&ThisGroup_ID=238
9/28/12
What Went Terribly Wrong
Nechemia Weberman’s Trial on October 30th: Come to the Hearing – and Understand What Went Terribly Wrong
By: Rabbi Yakov Horowitz
Dear Readers: During these days leading up to Succos, our z’man simchaseinu, (time of collective joy), one might consider it inappropriate to write about topics that are far from joyous. However, having spent Rosh Hashana at an amazing and inspiring Madraigos retreat where there were more than a few abuse survivors in attendance, I feel compelled to release these lines at this time to fulfill a promise I made then to let the survivors among us know that they are not standing alone, and with the hope that it will result in safer practices among those in our community who are seeing help for their children. These lines are dedicated in memory of Yoni Polansky a“h (1994-2012).
Best wishes for a Gutten Shabbos and a Gutten Yom Tov.
Yakov
After many delays and much legal wrangling, Nechemia Weberman will finally stand trial in Brooklyn Criminal Court on October 30th for allegedly abusing a young girl in the Williamsburg community over a period of three years -- beginning when she was 12 years old.
Mr. Weberman is entitled to his day in court and the presumption of innocence until proven guilty.
Having said that, quoting the Halachic terms employed in the Teshuva of Rav Elyashiv zt”l, there is clearly far more than “raglayim l’davar” (credible suspicion) in this case. In fact, all indications point to the inescapable conclusion that something is very, very wrong here.
What Parents Need to Know
One of the most important things frum parents – especially those in the “heimish” community – ought to be developing is a deep understanding of the norms and accepted practice in the mental health profession. Gaining this would allow devoted and caring parents the ability to obtain suitable professional help for their children who need it, and avoid the trauma associated with following the recommendations made by untrained, well-meaning folks (unfortunately, an all too frequent occurrence, one which sometimes creates horrific results).
Moreover, it would help undo the denial and cognitive dissonance of those who defend Weberman -- by pointing out how disturbing were the circumstances of his "treatment" of the young girls referred to him.
Don’t Ignore the Warning Signs
Think of it this way. Wouldn't alarm bells go off in your mind if a doctor performed an invasive procedure without using latex gloves or if he/she picked up a used syringe to give you an injection? Wouldn't you think it strange if you were a single mother and were requested to meet with your son’s Rebbe or principal at 9 p.m. one evening in a deserted Yeshiva building to discuss your son's progress?
What Went Wrong
Well, those of us familiar with the do's and don'ts of accepted practice in the mental health profession saw similar blaring warning lights in our minds, as should you when the facts were made public that Weberman:
1) Had unregulated access to many girls over a number of years in his inappropriate and illegal role as their unlicensed "therapist."
2) Had these young girls referred to him for counseling by very Chassidish schools, whose general level of gender separation far exceeds those of the typical "Bais Yakov" (and it would be exceedingly rare for non-Chassidish girls’ schools to regularly refer their Talmidos to a male therapist)
3) Engaged in private, unsupervised counseling sessions with young girls -- often in an office/apartment that contained a working bedroom -- violating all norms of Yichud and Tzniyus.
In addition to all these disturbing facts, it has become clear that these serious allegations are in fact not isolated ones. In fact, since Mr. Weberman's arrest, I was personally contacted by immediate family members of four additional alleged victims of his who are afraid to come forward, and those of us close to the community have heard similar reports from others as well.
All the victims – none of whom know each other and all of whom are terrified to go to the authorities because of fear of backlash from the community – report striking similarities in the MO of Weberman (his manner of working), fueling suspicion that we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg.
What is most chilling is that each and every one of his victims who came to us is currently married; meaning that 1) this has been going on for a very long time, 2) if there are current victims who are single, they are even more terrified than the married women of coming forward, for fear that going public will ruin their chances of doing a decent shidduch.
Weberman’s case may very well be our community’s most important abuse trial during our lifetimes. It is imperative that we have a huge turnout in support of this courageous young lady who, may she be gezunt and ge’bentched, is determined to see this through to the end so others won't suffer like she did. Unbearable pressure is being brought to bear against her and her family to drop the case, which is one of the reasons that a show of support is so important.
Now That You Know
Those of us who work with abuse survivors respectfully implore you to please, please stand with this victim on October 30th, and with the other silent and silenced victims who are watching this case unfold very carefully, and with all survivors of abuse and molestation.
Please pass this on to your friends and family members and I hope to see you at the trial, heeding the timeless charge of Yeshayahu (Isaiah) (1:16) to “Seek justice [and] strengthen the victim.”
Yakov Horowitz
Director, Center for Jewish Family Life/Project YES www.kosherjewishparenting.com.
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KWRBT you see the responses from some gentiles? Like I said I dont know the details of this case, but I see some gentiles (and some Jews who always write against Judaism) gloating over these cases and using that to go against Jews as a whole as well.
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Everything that the great DownwithIslam said about these chazirs is correct. This is a woman-hating Nazi cult, pure and simple.
Bullsh*t... You don't know any Satmar and your opinion is biased by much BS...
I have heard the opinions that they helped cause Jews to die in the shoah. I take that with a grain of salt... I have also heard the opinion that the Jews brought the Shoah on themselves because of the zionist movement... Maybe so, maybe not... The Three Oaths are difficult to understand without listening to several opinions.
I am of the belief that we are no longer held to the Three Oaths mostly due to the fact that the Nations of the World broke their part of the Oath by oppressing the Jewish people too much. Because they broke their oath the Jewish people have the right (along with the nations giving support through the Balfour Declaration and the Palestine Mandate) to establish the Jewish state. But it could be argued otherwise, and I am willing to work with those who think these oaths are still in effect.
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Bullsh*t... You don't know any Satmar and your opinion is biased by much BS...
Are you forgetting the Satmars we have had on this forum?
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Bullsh*t... You don't know any Satmar and your opinion is biased by much BS...
Definitely. We don't go around calling his religion ( I will end it here, but you know what) we dont talk about his groups but he has the nerve to talk about our people even if some things are true or not. They pertain to our people and not him and his people.
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Are you forgetting the Satmars we have had on this forum?
Their are hundreds of thousands of them (I think). Their are soo many people with different beliefs and actions as well. Not saying I like or even know many of them or anything, but you always see everything in such black and white terms and things.
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Are you forgetting the Satmars we have had on this forum?
There may have been very bad Satmars here. I would not be surprised. But as a whole, group of Hassidic Jews, they are Jews and we should attempt to rebuke them if we can, and only then can we curse them...
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So Tag, I'm an anti-Semite because I don't believe Jewish girls should be raped by old pedophile cult members, fine, okay, you have proven your point. I do wonder though how you would feel if someone told your future girlfriend/wife that you feel that pedophilia is not a black-and-white matter--that might affect whether or not they want to have kids with you, after all.
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KWRBT you see the responses from some gentiles? Like I said I dont know the details of this case,
Your ignorance is not an excuse. If you don't know, then read and find out. It is your responsibility as a Jew. And especially if you're going to comment on this case or the publicity surrounding it.
Rabbi Horowitz's site is public, on the internet, for any Jew or gentile to see. His target audience is Jews, but a gentile can read his site and learn a lot about the frum community. So what? What are you so afraid of? As I said before, this case was all over the news because the Satmar establishment clowns made a very ostentatious and public fundraiser rally for Weberman after he was accused! They posted fliers for this event all over williamsburg and burough park. They in their hubris and evil enabling of a vile beast, brought this case even more publicity than it would have had. They and the criminal rapist himself are to blame for unfair gentile responses should they occur. There is no reason to be silent about this because some gentile might see it and hate Jews. There are tons of abuse cases in gentile communities. Estimates say that 1 in 4 kids in secular society are abused! So anyone pointing the finger only at Jews is clearly a nazi. But that doesn't mean we don't have an abuse problem.
but I see some gentiles (and some Jews who always write against Judaism) gloating over these cases and using that to go against Jews as a whole as well.
I see one gentile on this forum (CF) who used this case to go against SATMAR as a whole. But if you read the details of this case, that is actually deserved. The Satmar establishment protected this criminal and intimidated the victim. They are guilty guilty guilty guilty. So how can I expect any different response from CF? Isn't his response justified?
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Definitely. We don't go around calling his religion ( I will end it here, but you know what) we dont talk about his groups but he has the nerve to talk about our people even if some things are true or not. They pertain to our people and not him and his people.
And we shouldn't discuss the truth because?
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KWRBT I'm not saying if he is guilty or not guilty. I dont know, etc. but I am saying their are more issues involved with these things. 1 of them is bias and the press and gloating that I mentioned another one is how and when someone is said to be guilty (even nothing having to do with Jewish or Chassidic or anything else). If someone is guilty on a word vs. word basis especially with jury system with not soo bring people it is very disturbing to see this because then anyone can be found guilty very easily. Imagine you were in a room alone with someone else (which is wrong but not something you should get life for) and then it was your word over her. what if you were then found guilty in such a case especially if you did nothing (or not to this extent) wrong. This by the way goes for all cases in general. It is usually said to let 1,000 people who did wrong free then put 1 innocent person to jail.
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It is usually said to let 1,000 people who did wrong free then put 1 innocent person to jail.
But he's not innocent and for you to assume he is innocent is the height of folly.
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So Tag, I'm an anti-Semite because I don't believe Jewish girls should be raped by old pedophile cult members, fine, okay, you have proven your point. I do wonder though how you would feel if someone told your future girlfriend/wife that you feel that pedophilia is not a black-and-white matter--that might affect whether or not they want to have kids with you, after all.
I dont think that is his point...
He said he doesn't know the case, that he believes that there may be some impropriety in the judgment. I think KWRBT has done the best to make the case that this particular guy was guilty of what he has been accused of. I will refrain from making a personal judgment other than to say I hope that the victims receive true Justice because I believe that a world without Justice is a world without Hashems providence.
Tag is sticking up for the Jewish people as a whole and the phenomenon that non-Jews will take any example of a Jew acting badly as a tool used against all Jews. While I agree we should be able to condemn evil-doers without any second thoughts, we should consider the bigger picture of how the Stormfronters look at this kind of news. Similar to the Catholic Church which has a black eye due to so much 'gay pedophilia' something like this may cause a black eye to all Chassidic Jewish sects.
So basically I agree with Tag on most of what he is saying. I will not go so far as to try to defend this guy in this particular case. It sounds to me that KWRBT has done more research into the case, and the thought that this guy would violate the Halacha of Yichud is just not very good (along with other improprieties).
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So Tag, I'm an anti-Semite because I don't believe Jewish girls should be raped by old pedophile cult members, fine, okay, you have proven your point. I do wonder though how you would feel if someone told your future girlfriend/wife that you feel that pedophilia is not a black-and-white matter--that might affect whether or not they want to have kids with you, after all.
what when did I say that? I said that you see most things as black and white and I was referring to your comments on ALL the Satmar Chassidim, or your many previous comments on a host of people and issues like for example the Mafdal and Bennett and the elections in Israel and many many maany other issues as well.
I do want criminals to deserve their due punishment but at the same time their is and should be a fair and unbiased due process in all cases.
Also their was absolutely no point in making this discussion here at all.
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But he's not innocent and for you to assume he is innocent is the height of folly.
KWRBT,
I believe Tag has good intention. While you may be right that in this case this man deserves what he got I also see Tags point that this kind of news is really only being posted to inflame hatred against one sect of Chassidic Judaism, which I have explained has good members who are not all evil... Despite your claim that the organization deserved this, I hope you do not hate the entire Satmar sect as a result.
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But he's not innocent and for you to assume he is innocent is the height of folly.
I didn't assume anything. Not him being innocent or him being guilty.
Also like I said I see extreme biases against Jews as a whole and the more someone is "frum" or frum looking the worse the bias against them. It is like in Israel as well. Their can be 1,000 Hiloni thieves, but when someone dressed in "Frum" attire commits a theft, something that would never be mentioned if the person would be a hiloni or an Arab, they gloat and publicize the facts like their is no tomorrow. And the underlying psychological hatred that will and does then build up from ordinary people and the way it seeps into people's minds on the subconscious level.
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This is a good example of Satmar's monstrous behavior but it's far from the only one. What about the Gitty Grunwald case?
Of course all of this pales in comparison to what the Satmar did in WWII. The Satmar leadership perpetrated one of the worst crimes against humanity of all time. First of all, the Satmar "rebbe" told his brainwashed followers, hundreds of thousands of them, not to make any attempt to flee Hungary and go to Israel because that would be an absolutely unforgivable sin. Then, along with his buttbuddy Adolf Kastner, Teitelbaum told those same followers that if they would meekly march to the death camps like the Nazis wanted, they would be saved. He deliberately had hundreds of thousands of his own faithful followers murdered just so that he could save his diseased tuchis. Because of him, hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews became charcoal and bars of soap. This is one of the most vile and sickening crimes against humanity ever perpetrated against anybody, Jew or Gentile. Teitelbaum has more Jewish blood on his hands than Arafat, Sheikh Nasrallah, Gamar Abdel Nasser, and the Assad dynasty put together. This Weberman pedo and his supporters will surely be joining Teitelbaum and Kastner in the flames of Gehenom forever--the same flames that his followers were thrown into in 1944.
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KWRBT,
I believe Tag has good intention. While you may be right that in this case this man deserves what he got I also see Tags point that this kind of news is really only being posted to inflame hatred against one sect of Chassidic Judaism, which I have explained has good members who are not all evil... Despite your claim that the organization deserved this, I hope you do not hate the entire Satmar sect as a result.
The Satmar leadership exhibited evil behavior and propagates evil behavior in their community, so why shouldn't I hate them? I do NOT hate individual Satmar Jews who are to no fault of their own trapped in this system and potentially victimized by it. There are many very righteous Jews living as Satmar chassidim. But I have no reason to respect the leadership of the US-based Satmar communities. Maybe once they clean up their house I can respect them, but you want to bet whether that will happen in our lifetime? I have nothing but contempt for the US satmar establishment. And given its origins, I believe it was conceived in sin and therefore not surprising to result in such a corrupt culture.
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what when did I say that? I said that you see most things as black and white and I was referring to your comments on ALL the Satmar Chassidim, or your many previous comments on a host of people and issues like for example the Mafdal and Bennett and the elections in Israel and many many maany other issues as well.
I do want criminals to deserve their due punishment but at the same time their is and should be a fair and unbiased due process in all cases.
Also their was absolutely no point in making this discussion here at all.
My bad, I didn't realize that you are the administrator of this forum. Pardon me.
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This is a good example of Satmar's monstrous behavior but it's far from the only one. What about the Gitty Grunwald case?
Of course all of this pales in comparison to what the Satmar did in WWII. The Satmar leadership perpetrated one of the worst crimes against humanity of all time. First of all, the Satmar "rebbe" told his brainwashed followers, hundreds of thousands of them, not to make any attempt to flee Hungary and go to Israel because that would be an absolutely unforgivable sin. Then, along with his buttbuddy Adolf Kastner, Teitelbaum told those same followers that if they would meekly march to the death camps like the Nazis wanted, they would be saved. He deliberately had hundreds of thousands of his own faithful followers murdered just so that he could save his diseased tuchis. Because of him, hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews became charcoal and bars of soap. This is one of the most vile and sickening crimes against humanity ever perpetrated against anybody, Jew or Gentile. Teitelbaum has more Jewish blood on his hands than Arafat, Sheikh Nasrallah, Gamar Abdel Nasser, and the Assad dynasty put together. This Weberman pedo and his supporters will surely be joining Teitelbaum and Kastner in the flames of Gehenom forever--the same flames that his followers were thrown into in 1944.
sources?
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The Satmar leadership exhibited evil behavior and propagates evil behavior in their community, so why shouldn't I hate them? I do NOT hate individual Satmar Jews who are to no fault of their own trapped in this system and potentially victimized by it. There are many very righteous Jews living as Satmar chassidim. But I have no reason to respect the leadership of the US-based Satmar communities. Maybe once they clean up their house I can respect them, but you want to bet whether that will happen in our lifetime? I have nothing but contempt for the US satmar establishment. And given its origins, I believe it was conceived in sin and therefore not surprising to result in such a corrupt culture.
The Satmar death cult was conceived in the bowels of a male camel that was inseminated by a pedophile caliph somewhere between Libya and Algeria.
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sources?
I thought you were the forum expert on Jewish history.
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My bad, I didn't realize that you are the administrator of this forum. Pardon me.
Would their be a point if I search some Evangelical figure or pasture if you will and open a thread here with such news and then go on and tell other Christians and Jews exactly this
"What a big surprise that this filth comes out of the evangelical Nazi cult. makes Shiite Islam and Santeria look like enlightened and progressive religions. The truth of the matter is that evangelical itself is violating children, not just one or two high-profile pedophiles in it. May this satanic cult be extinguished from planet earth when Sh*tlam is (or better yet before). "
In truth I'm not saying this, but pointing out what you said and say.
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If that situation comes up, post as you wish. If there is an evangelical cult that rapes children it needs to be exposed.
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If that situation comes up, post as you wish. If there is an evangelical cult that rapes children it needs to be exposed.
I have my differences and I and my culture are worlds apart with them. BUT
Satmar is not a cult that rapes children. You are spreading worse than Nazi propaganda lies.
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I have my differences and I and my culture are worlds apart with them. BUT
Satmar is not a cult that rapes children. You are spreading worse then Nazi propaganda lies.
Maybe they don't all rape children, but all of their leadership certainly defended this child rapist. Or do you think that it is wrong to call Islam a terrorist religion because not every one physically becomes a suicide bomber?
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Maybe they don't all rape children, but all of their leadership certainly defended this child rapist. Or do you think that it is wrong to call Islam a terrorist religion because not every one physically becomes a suicide bomber?
Satmar Hassidim is based on the Hassidic teachings of their Rebbes. It has nothing to do with sexual abuse of women or anything like that.
(I wouldn't think i would have to even spend my time saying this).
These are things probably expected at StørmFrønt or some other Nazi websites.
Your great "support" for the Jewish people is really something great and appreciative. Woow were would Jews be without you?
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It's a disgusting murder cult that I have nothing but hatred for. It teaches its zombie members to hate their fellow Jews if they are Zionists and it set up hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews to be slaughtered by the Nazis during WWII. Today they hate Israel and want the Arabs to destroy it. Everything connected to Satmarism is satanic to the core. I do not hide the fact that I am filled with hatred for this demonic "religion" so you're not "exposing" anything about me. All of the leaders of this Nazi "religion" will burn in hell just the way they caused all those Hungarian Jews to be burned alive in the German crematoria in 1944.
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I have my differences and I and my culture are worlds apart with them. BUT
Satmar is not a cult that rapes children. You are spreading worse than Nazi propaganda lies.
However, they did prove that they are a cult which protects certain criminals who raped children.
So do you have a problem if CF points that out? Any gentile points it out? If I point it out? If any Jew points it out?
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However, they did prove that they are a cult which protects certain criminals who raped children.
So do you have a problem if CF points that out? Any gentile points it out? If I point it out? If any Jew points it out?
It is a fallacy to claim that one members action is cause to accuse the entire sect of the crime. And the fact that he was defended by his co-religionists, is this really a crime? I think that it is wrong to paint the entire movement as wicked because of the deeds of a few.
Some people think Jonathan Pollard deserved death, even some Jews felt this way... Does that make them right?
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It is a fallacy to claim that one members action is cause to accuse the entire sect of the crime. And the fact that he was defended by his co-religionists, is this really a crime? I think that it is wrong to paint the entire movement as wicked because of the deeds of a few.
Fact: They raised half a million dollars for a pedophile.
Being a co-religionist does NOT give someone license to defend a criminal. Where did you get that idea from? It IS a crime IMO to defend a criminal simply due to some misplaced "loyalty" or "association" due to his purported religion (which he openly violated).
The whole movement is NOT wicked, nor did I say it was. I said the establishment/leadership is wicked, and they are wicked not because of the "crimes of a few" but because of their own crimes which this establishment committed.
Some people think Jonathan Pollard deserved death, even some Jews felt this way... Does that make them right?
Does what make them right?
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The whole movement is NOT wicked, nor did I say it was. I said the establishment/leadership is wicked, and they are wicked not because of the "crimes of a few" but because of their own crimes which this establishment committed.
Does what make them right?
I think almost the whole movement is wicked. Certainly all of its principles are. For those Satmar members that are simply brainwashed and not actually evil--I hope they will see the light and leave this cult while they still can. Obviously I have no ill will towards innocent victims of this cult such as the girl at the center of this case.
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I am certainly not an expert on this.... but is it is possible to say that the Satmar LEADERS are evil (assuming their leadership defended the rapist)... but not all the members are evil??
I think we have had similar arguments before... and it always seemed to come down to leadership vs generalizations of the entire group.
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I am certainly not an expert on this.... but is it is possible to say that the Satmar LEADERS are evil (assuming their leadership defended the rapist)... but not all the members are evil??
I think we have had similar arguments before... and it always seemed to come down to leadership vs generalizations of the entire group.
I have said this... I know very observant and good Satmar who are zionists... I was at his house mourning the loss of his wifes brother the other night...
He quoted us the midrash, when I brought up Morsi and the muslim brotherhood in Egypt, the Midrash that 'Even the best Mitzrim should be killed'....
http://www.shemayisrael.com/parsha/peninim/archives/beshalach66.htm
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This pig will juggle antique Fabergé eggs in hell! And God help him if he f****** drops any of them!
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It is a fallacy to claim that one members action is cause to accuse the entire sect of the crime. And the fact that he was defended by his co-religionists, is this really a crime? I think that it is wrong to paint the entire movement as wicked because of the deeds of a few.
Some people think Jonathan Pollard deserved death, even some Jews felt this way... Does that make them right?
You are actually comparing a Jewish hero and martyr to a pedophile???
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You are actually comparing a Jewish hero and martyr to a pedophile???
No I am not, read what I wrote...
I am comparing the response from those who read about it and form opinions of the religion or sect... That the non-Jews see Pollards offense as a mark against the Jewish people...
Any Jew who is convicted of a crime brings more antisemitism to the world. This is a double-edged sword because on the one hand Jews are held to a higher authority (by Hashem) but we are punished and oppressed by the gentile world based on antisemitic hatred.
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I am certainly not an expert on this.... but is it is possible to say that the Satmar LEADERS are evil (assuming their leadership defended the rapist)... but not all the members are evil??
I think we have had similar arguments before... and it always seemed to come down to leadership vs generalizations of the entire group.
That is basically what KWRBT and I am saying.
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Where this cook is going, all Dicks will be burned to wake up and burned to fall asleep!
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NK is a spinoff of Satmarism. They are slightly more extreme (which really just means that they say what they feel a bit more openly) and that's it.
Here is another horror story about a crime that was perpetrated by this misogynistic murder cult that, as KWRBT pointed out, apes (no pun intended) the behavior of black Muslim gang members:
http://nymag.com/news/features/48532/
Actually NK is NOT a splitoff from Satmar NK was started by Litvaks & Satmars are Hungarians
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Also Weberman is not originally a Satmar but a Malach.
The Malachim are a Chabad breakoff they brokeaway in the time of Admor Sholom Dov Ber Schneersohn (RASHAB) because of an arguement between Rabbi Avraham Ber Levine AKA the Malach & the Rebbe Rashab over the Rebbe's son Admor Yosef Yitzchak that he was reading newspapers supposedly.
Levine was kicked out of Lubavitch & set up shop in the US in the Bronx & later in Williamsburg & out of yeshiva bochurim from Torah Vodaas started his own sect called the Malachim which had Chabad minhagim but Satmarish hashkofos & mode of dress.
Weberman's grandfather was one of the original Malachim Chasidim.
Today there are no more than 150-200 Malachim with many of the younger generation being absorbed into Satmar & NK.
Weberman's Uncle Meyer Weberman is the rav of the Malachim & their shul is called Nesivios Olam & is on Hewes St. in Williamsburg
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This creature is still evil and so is anybody who would defend him in any way.
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This creature is still evil and so is anybody who would defend him in any way.
Nobody here is defending him that I can see... We are defending the Satmar people as a whole, who do keep commandments and do good deeds. I know personally some who do this, and you think I'm just giving you a hard time...
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Nobody here is defending him that I can see... We are defending the Satmar people as a whole, who do keep commandments and do good deeds. I know personally some who do this, and you think I'm just giving you a hard time...
Defending Satmar as a whole is no different from defending Lutheranism as a whole. It is evil. It is a minority of both that are not bad people. Good Satmar should leave this cult just like good Lutherans should leave that Nazi cult.
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ChaimFan, why did you choose to post a thread of an Orthodox Jew going to prison for raping a girl? Obviously, the guy has problems. . Yeah, we read about it on google news.. This does bring shame to all the Jewish people. Would you have posted a thread about a Catholic priest being busted for raping boys or a Christian pastor busted for having gay sex with a male prostitute and using meth and trying to seduce his church members?
As I said earlier, think of the sensitivities. Rather than celebrating this, you should be mourning with the rest of us. This man is disgraceful and I believe can be classified as "Chilul Hashem" (correct me if I am wrong, Muman).
Many Jews have lost their way.. The Satmar at least are traditional people who strictly follow Jewish culture and traditions. I have respect for any Jew in this day and age who can uphold that virtue. Yes, with any community or religious group that gives a human being power and authority, you will have abuses. This is what occurred in this scenario. WHy single out Satmar Jews when this is becoming a more and more common occurrence, especially in Christian communities as well?
Seriously.. I am pleading with you to stop demonizing the Rabbi and instead pray for him. You are a Christian right? Doesn't CHristianity teach you to pray for the Jewish people? Why are you celebrating and boldly cheering the demise of this man and his JEwish community, which may result?
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Defending Satmar as a whole is no different from defending Lutheranism as a whole. It is evil. It is a minority of both that are not bad people. Good Satmar should leave this cult just like good Lutherans should leave that Nazi cult.
How many Jewish children did the Satmars as a whole murder? Can you send me a reference.
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According to many Jewish sources the original Satmar Rebbe was a Tzadik (Righteous One)...
http://www.shemayisrael.co.il/publicat/hazon/tzedaka/Tales_of_Tzedakah-6.html
Introduction:
Rav Yoel Teitelbaum - the Satmar Rebbe - was recognized as one of the leading Torah sages of his era, and as we shall discuss in the letter that follows, he was a great tzadik who was a great tzedakah activist. The Satmar Rebbe was also known for his strong opposition to the secular Zionist movement; moreover, he felt that Zionist leaders were leading the Jewish people astray by encouraging them to view "nationalism" as the basis of their Jewish identity, instead of the Torah. There are other related reasons for his opposition to the modern Zionist movement which are the topic for a different discussion. The followers of the Satmar Rebbe, however, are not to be confused with a very tiny fringe group whose members wear Chassidic garb and who publicly demonstrate with the P.L.O., along with other anti-Israel groups. These demonstrations in support of Israel's enemies have been condemned by the leadership of all major Jewish communities, including the Satmar community. In fact, when a group of young Satmar zealots participated in such a demonstration when the Rebbe was still alive, the Satmar Rebbe expelled them from the Satmar community.
The Satmar Rebbe's opposition to the modern Zionist movement is well-known, but his great love and concern for the needy is not as well-known. One reason is because "tzadikim" - righteous individuals - do not seek publicity about their good deeds; on the contrary, they prefer to perform these good deeds in a hidden and modest manner. Nevertheless, it is helpful for us to know about their good deeds, so that we can be inspired to do good deeds of our own. The following letter will therefore contain information and stories about the Rebbe's loving devotion to the mitzvah of tzedakah:
Rabbi Berel Wein's 2 CD set on Satmar Rebbe :
http://www.rabbiwein.com/Rabbi-Yoel-Teitelbaum-the-Satmar-Rov-brPersonal-Memories-of-Great-Men-P868.html
Controversial for his outspoken anti-Zionist stance, the Satmar Rov was nevertheless one of the most influential Chassidic leaders of the 20th century. This rare glimpse into his life as seen by Rabbi Wein includes the Rov's reaction to the liberation of Jerusalem in the War of 1967 and his phenomenal rebuilding of his community out of the ashes of the Holocaust.
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Here is a 'responsa' on the topic of the 'Three Oaths' which I mentioned is the corner-stone of the anti-zionist stance of the Satmar Chassidim....
http://www.kby.org/hebrew/torat-yavneh/view.asp?id=3970
(excerpt from above link)
The Gemara in Ketubot (111a) derives from the triple mention of the pasuk, "I have bound you in oath, O daughters of Jerusalem" (Shir Hashirim), that Hashem bound Am Yisrael and the nations of the world with three oaths. The first oath is, "shelo yaalu bachoma," that the Jews should not forcibly, "break through the wall," and enter Eretz Yisrael. The second is that the Jews should not rebel against the nations. The third is that the nations of the world should not oppress Yisrael too much over the course of the exile. According to R. Zera, there are three additional oaths which relate to the ultimate redemption. The Gemara concludes with the threat that if Israel violates these oaths, their flesh will be made free like wild animals in the field, i.e., Hashem would bring upon them great suffering and physical destruction.
The Satmar Rebbe, Rav Yoel Teitelbaum, claims in "Vayoel Moshe" that Hashem brought about the Holocaust because the Zionist movement caused the Jews to violate the "Three Oaths." Since the Jewish people forcefully went to resettle Eretz Yisrael, Hashem brought upon them massive destruction, as the Gemara warns in its conclusion. Rav Shlomo Aviner compiled thirteen answers to this claim, amongst them the following:
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בס''ד
Tag Mehir, as you know I was very busy with the Israeli election that was just held. We became an issue and a target in the election and I had to defend myself and our movement.
Tag Mehir, you have really done a 180 degree turn. You were the one always attacking Charedim. We had a long argument about that on this forum. Now you have become their most zealous defender. Now you regard criticism of the Satmar to be "Nazi anti-Semitism".
First of all, what happened in this pedophile case was atrocious. Do Jew-haters exploit incidents like this? Sure. However, this is nothing compared to how Jew-haters exploit the behavior of left-wing, self-hating Jews in Hollywood, the news media and politics in order to incite anti-Semitism. Should we avoid criticizing self-hating Jewish actors, journalists and politicians because it may lead to anti-Semitism? In my opinion, the answer is no because I think the self-hating Jews do far more harm to us than the anti-Semites.
I know that you can't stand when "Waiting for the Mother Plane to Come" (WFTMPTC) attacks self-hating or evil Jews. You feel that he is using their behavior as an excuse to express latent anti-Semitism. I know WFTMPTC for quite a few years now and I know that you are wrong. WFTMPTC sincerely supports Israel and the Jewish people far more than most Jews. True, he does have a tendency to engage in rhetorical hyperbole when he attacks but he does that with everyone, not only self-hating Jews. Referring to the Satmar as a murderous Nazi cult can create the impression that we hate all Satmar Chassidim, which we do not and should not. I would again urge WFTMPTC to cool his overheated rhetoric.
You say that WFTMPTC has never met and is unfamiliar with the Satmar. Probably true. But I know the Satmar very well for many years. Many of them are seething with vicious hatred for any Jew who supports an independent Jewish state. Have you ever studied what they say and believe? The Satmar Rebbe taught them that Satan created the state of Israel and that the Jewish state must be destroyed. The Satmar teach that Amalek in our generation are the Zionist Jews - meaning any Jew who believes in an independent Jewish nation. I hate to disappoint you, but I believe that this is a sick philosophy. For "religious" Jews to ascribe G-d's miraculous return of His people to the Holy Land as the actions of Satan is the ultimate Chillul Hashem (desecration of G-d's name).
Now you want to leave the forum. Obviously, you are free to leave whenever you wish. But I'm sorry to see you go. I like you and respect you, and I think our other members do as well even though we sometimes argue as is to be expected on an open forum. If you want to stay, you are always welcome here. If you want to go, we honestly wish you the best. I know you are a good Jew. G-d bless you.
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Chaim,
I know Jews who studied with Satmar and they all do not believe that zionists are Amalek. They do believe that it goes against the Three Oaths and that great evil will befall the Jewish people should we try to take Israel. I understand that Theology...
Not that I question you on this but are you sure you don't accuse Satmar of the deeds of NK, which is not exactly the same thing as Satmar? I know the Satmar Rebbe was against any member joining the enemy of the Jewish people (at least according to my understanding). I have been researching this and have not found specific mention of the beliefs you mention.
In the course of Jewish history there have been appropriate times for Redemption, and inappropriate times. I can understand that some may believe it is not the right time to take the land 'by force'. But I don't believe that because I believe the Oaths are no longer binding. I have talked to several Rabbis on this very point, and the fact that the nations did not abide by the oath to not oppress the Jews, and the nations did permit us to take the land via the 'Balfour Declaration' and others, that we rightfully enter the land at this time.
I appreciate hearing your opinion on this topic.... Thank you for saying that comparing Luther to Satmar is insensitive.
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בס''ד
Muman, here is a Hebrew article on a Charedi web site about a children's cartoon booklet that Satmar is distributing showing the "Zionists" helping the Nazis lead the Jews to the concentration camps. You can see the illustrations in the booklet if you scroll down. What the booklet conveniently fails to mention is that the Satmar Rebbe made a deal to save himself and his family with the most notorious Judenrat traitor of the holocaust, Rudolph Kastner ys"v. The Satmar Rebbe and his family escaped the Nazi inferno in Hungary but he never warned 800,000 Hungarian Jews about what was about to happen to them. If the Hungarian Jews had resisted, many could have survived because the Germans and their Hungarian Nazi allies were already losing the war and they were very weak. There were only 5000 German soldiers left in all of Hungary.
http://www.bhol.co.il/article.aspx?id=49783
Also, Muman, did you know that Satmar Chassidim in the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn used to burn an effigy of the Lubavitcher Rebbe every Purim?
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Interesting information about the Satmars, Chaim.. I take everything with a grain of salt, but will have to do some probing more into the Satmar sect. I didn't realize they were vehemently against Israel.
Nonetheless, the evil deeds of one Satmar Rabbi in Hungary cannot be blamed on the Jewish victims. Were not many Satmar Jews some of the greatest victims of their cowardly and traitorous Rebbe? Nor can one Satmar pedophile represent all Satmar Jews as pedophiles. I don't believe the Satmars are extremely sexually immoral. Also, the media is blowing up this case because it is degrading to Jews. The Jew-hating media doesn't necessarily make a distinction between anti-Zionist and Zionist Jew.
Also, Martin Luther and the Lutheran sect has committed some of the greatest atrocities against the Jewish people known to man. I found it insensitive of ChaimFan to be blatantly comparing the heinous Nazi-era Lutherans to the Satmar.. Maybe I am wrong? But, I think any such comparison of Nazis who promote complete extermination of Jews to people who are against the State of Israel is incomprehensible.
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בס''ד
Muman, here is a Hebrew article on a Charedi web site about a children's cartoon booklet that Satmar is distributing showing the "Zionists" helping the Nazis lead the Jews to the concentration camps. You can see the illustrations in the booklet if you scroll down. What the booklet conveniently fails to mention is that the Satmar Rebbe made a deal to save himself and his family with the most notorious Judenrat traitor of the holocaust, Rudolph Kastner ys"v. The Satmar Rebbe and his family escaped the Nazi inferno in Hungary but he never warned 800,000 Hungarian Jews about what was about to happen to them. If the Hungarian Jews had resisted, many could have survived because the Germans and their Hungarian Nazi allies were already losing the war and they were very weak. There were only 5000 German soldiers left in all of Hungary.
http://www.bhol.co.il/article.aspx?id=49783
Also, Muman, did you know that Satmar Chassidim in the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn used to burn an effigy of the Lubavitcher Rebbe every Purim?
Actually it is not the Satmar but the Malachim & the Neturei Karta that burned the effigy both led by members of the Weberman family.
FYI,The same Webermans have an Uncle in Miami who is a rav & Lubavitcher chosid Rabbi Pinchas Weberman who was friendly with Rabbi Kahane,ZT"L,HY"D
Everything else though you are spot on.
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Referring to the Satmar as a murderous Nazi cult can create the impression that we hate all Satmar Chassidim, which we do not and should not. I would again urge WFTMPTC to cool his overheated rhetoric.
You say that WFTMPTC has never met and is unfamiliar with the Satmar. Probably true.
Chaim I appreciate your feedback and you are right. I won't use those terms anymore but I will explain why I did, and I think I did. I talked about Satmarism's cornerstone role in enabling the Shoah in Hungary. That is an unforgivable crime against humanity and would be whether or not the victims or perpetrators were Jewish--however, they were. Thinking about what Kastner and the Satmar rabbi did in order to save their butts truly makes my skin crawl just to think about it.
I compared Lutheranism to Satmarism because I do see a lot of analogies in that they are hateful anti-Semitic (sometimes violently so) sects. Not all Satmars and not all Lutherans are evil, for sure, and I do not hate all of each, but if you belong to Satmarism or Lutheranism, you should leave it for a more normal and sane branch of Judaism or Christianity, respectively.
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Why should good Satmarists abandon Satmarism rather than just admit the past/current evil of Satmarism and try to turn Satmarism into something righteous? Satmar II. Enabling the Shoah in Hungary is unforgivable, but the only people on the hook for it are dead, and God will punish them. Should OJ Simpson's children be executed by God? Should these people? https://www.facebook.com/Freunde.Israels There are some people who think we should abandon any sense of American pride because of the Indian Removal Act and other genocides against the American Indians including deliberately giving them infected blankets to kill them off en masse with disease. Are white Americans on the hook for slavery too?
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Interesting information about the Satmars, Chaim.. I take everything with a grain of salt, but will have to do some probing more into the Satmar sect. I didn't realize they were vehemently against Israel.
Nonetheless, the evil deeds of one Satmar Rabbi in Hungary cannot be blamed on the Jewish victims. Were not many Satmar Jews some of the greatest victims of their cowardly and traitorous Rebbe? Nor can one Satmar pedophile represent all Satmar Jews as pedophiles. I don't believe the Satmars are extremely sexually immoral. Also, the media is blowing up this case because it is degrading to Jews. The Jew-hating media doesn't necessarily make a distinction between anti-Zionist and Zionist Jew.
Also, Martin Luther and the Lutheran sect has committed some of the greatest atrocities against the Jewish people known to man. I found it insensitive of ChaimFan to be blatantly comparing the heinous Nazi-era Lutherans to the Satmar.. Maybe I am wrong? But, I think any such comparison of Nazis who promote complete extermination of Jews to people who are against the State of Israel is incomprehensible.
I pointed out that the Satmar rabbi deliberately causes hundreds of thousands of his own Satmar members to be murdered. I didn't say it was their fault (besides allowing themselves to be brainwashed by him). His hands are drenched in their blood and he is experiencing the consequences of that now.
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So why not save your animosity for the Satmar Rebbe rather than all the Satmar Jewish victims who were massacred? After all, their numbers count in addition to all the other Jews who were massacred. There was plenty of wealthy, privileged and prestigious people who betrayed their own people throughout history. The acts of one corrupt and evil man, the Satmar Rebbe, shouldn't reflect on all the innocent Satmar Jews who were being devout and following (albeit blindly) the advice of their Rabbi.
And, I have met a few people in Chabad who think we should move back to Russia/Poland instead of Israel, including one Chabad Rabbi I previously had. One Chabad Rabbi I had actually loved the Tzar. Yes, how crazy is that??! Yet, I still love and respect this Rabbi. Should I now consider Chabad an evil cult, considering many Chabad Rabbis are the most Zionist I ever met?
Wouldn't it be better to pray that the Satmars make teshuva and change their ways than to condemn them all as nazis??
There are also Jews who call themselves Zionists but do things I also disagree with. For example, the Gay Pride parades in Israel. I believe these anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews can become some of the most bold and greatest Zionist Jews if they would change their ways. They are convoluted by ideology, but I know there are many of these men who will come out of their shell. Because every devout Jew knows in his heart, Israel is his true home.
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So why not save your animosity for the Satmar Rebbe rather than all the Satmar Jewish victims who were massacred? After all, their numbers count in addition to all the other Jews who were massacred. There was plenty of wealthy, privileged and prestigious people who betrayed their own people throughout history. The acts of one corrupt and evil man, the Satmar Rebbe, shouldn't reflect on all the innocent Satmar Jews who were being devout and following (albeit blindly) the advice of their Rabbi.
And, I have met a few people in Chabad who think we should move back to Russia instead of Israel, including one Chabad Rabbi I previously had. Should I now consider Chabad an evil cult, considering many Chabad Rabbis are the most Zionist I ever met?
Wouldn't it be better to pray that the Satmars make teshuva and change their ways than to condemn them all as nazis??
There are also Jews who call themselves Zionists but do things I also disagree with. For example, the Gay Pride parades in Israel. I believe these anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews can become some of the most bold and greatest Zionist Jews if they would change their ways. They are convoluted by ideology, but I know there are many of these men who will come out of their shell. Because every devout Jew knows in his heart, Israel is his true home.
By and large, Satmar members are evil (and certainly all of their leadership is). By and large, the vast majority of Chabad members (and their leadership) are very righteous and pure Jews.
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I rebuke the Satmar for their very bad understanding of Jewish law. Maybe the Rebbe was confused because it would seem that his actions are worse than violating the Three Oaths. But those Jews who died at the hands of the Nazis were all Righteous souls. Could things have been different? I sometimes ask myself if anything could have been done differently but always I come back to the concept that all of History, and especially Jewish history, is guided by Hashem.
I do not sacrifice a Jew casually. But the option of leaving was only granted to a few. I don't know about the deal regarding the Kastner train, it certainly is not a topic I have heard any Rabbis discuss.
It is easy to look back at the situation 70 years later and say things could have been different. But look around and ask yourself what about if it happens again? Who will stand up against the evil? Who will play along believing that they may be spared? It is not as easy to answer when you look at reality..
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By and large, Satmar members are evil (and certainly all of their leadership is). By and large, the vast majority of Chabad members (and their leadership) are very righteous and pure Jews.
Maybe personal experience helps one understand that they are not all evil...
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So why not save your animosity for the Satmar Rebbe rather than all the Satmar Jewish victims who were massacred? After all, their numbers count in addition to all the other Jews who were massacred. There was plenty of wealthy, privileged and prestigious people who betrayed their own people throughout history. The acts of one corrupt and evil man, the Satmar Rebbe, shouldn't reflect on all the innocent Satmar Jews who were being devout and following (albeit blindly) the advice of their Rabbi.
And, I have met a few people in Chabad who think we should move back to Russia/Poland instead of Israel, including one Chabad Rabbi I previously had. One Chabad Rabbi I had actually loved the Tzar. Yes, how crazy is that??! Yet, I still love and respect this Rabbi. Should I now consider Chabad an evil cult, considering many Chabad Rabbis are the most Zionist I ever met?
Wouldn't it be better to pray that the Satmars make teshuva and change their ways than to condemn them all as nazis??
There are also Jews who call themselves Zionists but do things I also disagree with. For example, the Gay Pride parades in Israel. I believe these anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews can become some of the most bold and greatest Zionist Jews if they would change their ways. They are convoluted by ideology, but I know there are many of these men who will come out of their shell. Because every devout Jew knows in his heart, Israel is his true home.
Actually Satmars are not against living in Israel they are only against having anything to do with the government.
They are an insular community & want no government interference in their lives nor do they want to interact with anybody that is not religious.
Not all are bad many are very charitable people,but they do have their nut jobs.
Also they are in the process of building a huge yeshiva campus here in Jerusalem at the site of the old Edison Theatre.
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Actually Satmars are not against living in Israel they are only against having anything to do with the government.
They are an insular community & want no government interference in their lives nor do they want to interact with anybody that is not religious.
Not all are bad many are very charitable people,but they do have their nut jobs.
Also they are in the process of building a huge yeshiva campus here in Jerusalem at the site of the old Edison Theatre.
Wow, interesting information ChabadKahanist.. Thanks for sharing.. Like I said, there is a lot about them I don't understand. They sound a little like me. I just want to move out to the mountains and be left alone. I'll send the government my tax payments and they just stay off my back.
If they are helping to promote Judaism within Israel and are not against the state of Israel they are good people in my book.
BTW, Considering the makeup of Israel's government right now.. I think wanting the government to leave you alone is a good thing. Like I said , I wouldn't be one of the peaceful protesters if they came knocking at my door saying they are giving my home to Arabs.
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Actually Satmars are not against living in Israel they are only against having anything to do with the government.
They are an insular community & want no government interference in their lives nor do they want to interact with anybody that is not religious.
Not all are bad many are very charitable people,but they do have their nut jobs.
Also they are in the process of building a huge yeshiva campus here in Jerusalem at the site of the old Edison Theatre.
The Satmar that are just regular people that want to be left alone should leave that cult and join Chabad or some other branch of real, authentic Torah Judaism.
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Wow, interesting information ChabadKahanist.. Thanks for sharing.. Like I said, there is a lot about them I don't understand. They sound a little like me. I just want to move out to the mountains and be left alone. I'll send the government my tax payments and they just stay off my back.
If they are helping to promote Judaism within Israel and are not against the state of Israel they are good people in my book.
BTW, Considering the makeup of Israel's government right now.. I think wanting the government to leave you alone is a good thing. Like I said , I wouldn't be one of the peaceful protesters if they came knocking at my door saying they are giving my home to Arabs.
They are against the state just not against living here,however they arae against NK's support of Ajad,Hamas & PLO,furthermore the Satmar Rov said not to vote for US politicians that arae against Israel because Goyim don't know the difference between Jews & if the Goy is against Israel he is an Anti-Semite.
Furthermore they take nothing from the Israeli government not 1 agora in welfare & the richer ones support the poorer ones
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I'm surprised nobody has used funny names such as Sh*tmar or Ratmar. Not that they should have, but the wrongness of it would make it even funnier.
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I'm surprised nobody has used funny names such as Sh*tmar or Ratmar. Not that they should have, but the wrongness of it would make it even funnier.
Yes indeed, to someone drunk or stoned.... Like laughing at a burp or something...
Pull my finger (http://openclipart.org/people/PBCrichton/finger.svg)
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They are against the state just not against living here,however they arae against NK's support of Ajad,Hamas & PLO,furthermore the Satmar Rov said not to vote for US politicians that arae against Israel because Goyim don't know the difference between Jews & if the Goy is against Israel he is an Anti-Semite.
Furthermore they take nothing from the Israeli government not 1 agora in welfare & the richer ones support the poorer ones
So it's okay for Satmar to hate their fellow Jews if they believe in the state of Israel, just not Gentiles???
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So it's okay for Satmar to hate their fellow Jews if they believe in the state of Israel, just not Gentiles???
I did not say that at all,what I am saying they are not against the land of Israel but against the state.
Furthermore I have seen Satmars give huge sums of tzedaka to Jews of all stripes.
Having said that I do not agree with them but to accuse all of them of hating other Jews is just wrong.
Do understand they do not want contact with non-religious Jews because they are an insular community & do not want to be poisoned so to speak by foreign ideas,but I have seen Satmars give huge sums of money to all sorts of religious Jews including knitted yarmulka people.
Do the Amish hate everybody else because they want to be left alone to live their own lifestyle unfettered by others?
Consider the Satmar lhavdil our version of the Amish
Remember what the Israeli government did to the Yemenites & other Mizrachi Jews by kidnapping their kids cutting off their payos & forcing them to eat traif & try to understand where the Satmar are coming from.
I personally think it is better to mikarev & educate,but if the Satmar wish to be insular that is their business
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They are against the state just not against living here,however they arae against NK's support of Ajad,Hamas & PLO,furthermore the Satmar Rov said not to vote for US politicians that arae against Israel because Goyim don't know the difference between Jews & if the Goy is against Israel he is an Anti-Semite.
Furthermore they take nothing from the Israeli government not 1 agora in welfare & the richer ones support the poorer ones
But very often, what their original Rebbe actually stood for is not the same thing as the present day leadership stands for, and similarly the masses don't fully grasp what his actual position was either, so they tend toward the hatred Chaim was mentioning, thinking that is what their Rebbe endorsed, whether he truly did or didn't.
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But very often, what their original Rebbe actually stood for is not the same thing as the present day leadership stands for, and similarly the masses don't fully grasp what his actual position was either, so they tend toward the hatred Chaim was mentioning, thinking that is what their Rebbe endorsed, whether he truly did or didn't.
This does make sense,however I have no way to say one way or another since leaving the US as do not have much contact witn Satmars here as I did in the US
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בס''ד
Muman, here is a Hebrew article on a Charedi web site about a children's cartoon booklet that Satmar is distributing showing the "Zionists" helping the Nazis lead the Jews to the concentration camps. You can see the illustrations in the booklet if you scroll down. What the booklet conveniently fails to mention is that the Satmar Rebbe made a deal to save himself and his family with the most notorious Judenrat traitor of the holocaust, Rudolph Kastner ys"v. The Satmar Rebbe and his family escaped the Nazi inferno in Hungary but he never warned 800,000 Hungarian Jews about what was about to happen to them. If the Hungarian Jews had resisted, many could have survived because the Germans and their Hungarian Nazi allies were already losing the war and they were very weak. There were only 5000 German soldiers left in all of Hungary.
http://www.bhol.co.il/article.aspx?id=49783
Also, Muman, did you know that Satmar Chassidim in the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn used to burn an effigy of the Lubavitcher Rebbe every Purim?
The Satmar Rebbe was a great man. And the Zionists DID help the Germans murder hundreds of thousands of Jews. Read "Perfidy" by Ben Hecht. He details the true story of the Zionist Rudolph Kasztner and his fellow Zionists collaborating with the Germans to murder 800,000 innocent Hungarian Jews. Kasztner later enabled the Jew-butcherer and SS officer Kurt Becher escape justice for the murder of 800,000 Hungarian Jews, which he murdered with the help of Kasztner.
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Well hello again, Ralph.
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This is Rothstein/Moshe44/Irgunwarrior. I just banned him.
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This is Rothstein/Moshe44/Irgunwarrior. I just banned him.
Which are all Ralph.
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I can't stand Satmar's cult. I am glad that this pig is going to spend the rest of his life behind bars
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Hey Manch! Long time no "see."
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I can't stand Satmar's cult. I am glad that this pig is going to spend the rest of his life behind bars
A few bad apples don't make it a cult! I agree that this guy and all pedophiles are scum and feces, but I know a lot of nice Satmar chassidim.