Dear Rabbi,
I've always been fascinated by the dress of Hassidic Jews and wondered why it is that the men grow long sidelocks?
signed,
Curious in College Park
Dear Curious,
Let us approach this question in two parts, briefly.
First of all, the Torah commandment is not only for Hassidim, but intended for every Jewish male. The Torah teaches:
"Do not cut off the hair on the sides of your head..."
Vayikra 19:27.
A Jewish male must leave sideburns (peyot) down to the joints of the jaw that are opposite the ear, approximately a third of the way down the ear.
Secondly, the custom to wear _long_ peyot is mentioned in the Talmudic commentary of Tosefot (compiled in Touques, France, approx. 1300 CE :
"One has to be exceedingly careful not to remove his Peyot even with a scissors because they are like a razor; therefore the accepted custom has been to leave long peyot on children when they have their first haircut."
(Nazir 41b)
Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch in his commentary on the Torah suggests that peyot form a symbolic separation between the front part of the brain and the rear part. The front part is the intellectual, the rear part is the more physical, the more sensual. The wearer of peyot is thus making a statement that he is aware of both facets of his mind, and intends to keep them to their appointed tasks.
Just some thoughts Tag....
Apparently there are Yemenite Jews who grow Peyos too.
So once a man grows out peyos, he should not cut them at all? I see men who look trimmed. Both trimmed beard and short peyos. And I am not talking about when they're curled making them look short. They should never be trimmed at all?
So once a man grows out peyos, he should not cut them at all? I see men who look trimmed. Both trimmed beard and short peyos. And I am not talking about when they're curled making them look short. They should never be trimmed at all?
http://www.jewishanswers.org/ask-the-rabbi-date/2005/11/?p=3162
The traditional Hasidic style is generally to have very short hair, except for the sides of the head which are left long and often curled. They may be cut, but not shaven off. The rest of the hair on the head is usually shaven off or cut very short by the most traditional Hasidic Jews, according to Kabbalistic teachings about hair. The side locks or curls are called “Payos” which means “corners of the head”. Many non-Hasidic Jews also have Payos, usually worn behind the ear in a less conspicuous manner. Yemenite Jews, who maintain very ancient customs, perhaps dating back to Biblical times, also have the long side curls. Some Hasidic Jews, such as the Lubavitcher Hasidim, do not have long Payos. Others wear them behind their ears or under their yarmulke. Generally speaking, Hasidic Jews never cut their beards (some do, but this is not the traditional way). Some other Orthodox Jews also keep this practice, as do the above-mentioned Yemenites who maintain the ancient practices.
Just some thoughts Tag....
(http://www.israelimages.com/searchresult_watermark.php?image=Web-Regular/1997_10_06_2008-17_06_20.jpg&watermark_text=14157&watermark_color=ffffff)
Apparently there are Yemenite Jews who grow Peyos too.
So once a man grows out peyos, he should not cut them at all? I see men who look trimmed. Both trimmed beard and short peyos. And I am not talking about when they're curled making them look short. They should never be trimmed at all?
lol what? Where did this come from? Howcome no one is reading the reply to the question which was posted to start this thread?
Author: jeans man
E-mail: not available
Date: 12/29/2003 10:39:00 AM
Subject: clothing
One of the things about Chassidim (and others) that confound the uninitiated is the concept of Payos, literally "corners." Some let these "side curls" hang "freestyle" down the sides of their heads, resting on their shoulders and below. Others wrap them several times around their ears, and others tuck them under their hats. The more "moderate" style of sporting Payos, also popular among many non-Chassidim, is to keep them relatively short, guiding them over and behind the ear.
What are Payos? Why do some people have them, while others don’t? Why are there so many ways to wear them? Which way is right? What is their significance?
Actually, EVERYBODY is supposed to wear Payos! So where, you may ask if you’ve seen my picture, are MY Payos? It really depends upon how you define them!
Do not round the Payos -- corners, of your heads, and do not destroy the Payos -- corners of your beard. (Leviticus, 19:29)
The prohibition of "rounding" is to cut one’s hair in such a way that there is one continuous circle of hair from the forehead to the temple to behind the ear, and all the way around. (Envision a monk’s haircut.) The prohibition of "destroying" the beard refers to using a razor blade to shave one’s beard. (As opposed to the use of depilatories and certain types of electric shavers, which use a different technique than a straight edge. -- The rules pertaining to the nuances of beard shaving are beyond the scope of this week’s message.)
Among the various explanations given for the Torah’s rules of hair cutting is that these were done by other religions, and we are required to distance ourselves from these practices. (Sefer Hachinuch) Ibn Ezra explains that it is appropriate for there to be a distinctly "Jewish appearance."
The bottom line, when it comes to Payos, is to allow a minimal amount of hair growth to remain at the side of the head. Almost everyone today, Jew and Gentile, fulfils this as a matter of course. (Although some of the "mushroom" haircuts would seem to violate this Commandment.)
What many groups, most notably Yemenite and Chassidic Jews, have done, is to emphasize this Mitzvah. Not only do they not cut the hair short, they allow it to grow long! In my neighborhood, I will often see Chassidim riding by on bikes or motorcycles, with their Payos flying behind them in the wind!
Some Jews, like the apocryphal fellow sited above, are uncomfortable seeing fellow Jews who dress in a manner that is so conspicuous and different. My feeling, although I don’t personally dress that way, is, what could be more Jewish! The Talmud says that one of the reasons that the ancient Israelites merited to be taken out of Egypt is that they maintained a uniquely Jewish mode of dress.
(quoting a website with a question from a reader, answered by one of the site's rabbis)
"This type of dress could have easily been adopted by the neighboring Yemenite non-Jews, and eventually by the Yemenite Jews. The fact that many Chassidim curl their Payos to look like Yemenite type Payos, leads me to believe that their custom came from the Yemenites. Yemenites don't need to curl theirs, it is naturally curly."
(showing picture of a Yemenite Jew)
Apparently there are Yemenite Jews who grow Peyos too.
I read it and it is saying that growing peyot is a custom copied from idolators. That is ridiculous. He provides nothing but his own opinion. Why does it say it was written by 'jeans man'?
What is the original source of that? What sources does he provide for his statements other than his own opinion?
I have, on the other hand, provided numerous sources and images which show that growin peyot is a uniquely Jewish custom.
Both of you claim so often that Yemenite Jewish culture is the most 'authentic' and they keep to Rambams Mishneh Torah.
Yet this article claims that the Temeni Jews copied the custom of growing long peyot from idolators in Yemen. To me that is another ridiculous claim.
Posting some pictures of Jews wearing this hairstyle doesn't prove anything about its origin. Absolute zero. Sorry. It doesn't prove or even suggest that it's "uniquely Jewish" and it doesn't say anything about its origin.
No, the article says that Peyot should not be grown. He says it is an idolatrous practice. Once I read that I know where he is coming from.
If he is a Rabbi you respect, so be it.
I think his conclusions are in error,
and again the majority opinion is that Peyot is a mitzvah of the Torah
Peyot is a mitzvah of the Torah and that it was a custom which has endured
as a 'siman' or sign of the Jewish people, not as a sign of idolatrous people, as the article concluded.
Most Rabbis when giving an opinion will provide sources for his conclusions, maybe you can ask him to provide some references other than broad speculation.
KWRBT,
It is you who is the insecure one, who always supports postings which are anti Ashkenazi for whatever deep-seated purpose.
If the Torah commanded that a Jew wear a particular uniform it would have been explained in the Oral Law... Where is this uniform which you guys think is the 'original' Jewish dress? Our dress indeed has been influenced by the land we live in. And as long as we dress is a unique manner, we are not going in the ways of the gentiles.
Of course, it is also documented facts that the Chassidic movement was a relatively recent innovation, and their use of the peyoth hairstyle was also a recent innovation added to Jewish culture. On that point, the author is correct. His speculation that they might have "copied" it from the Yemenites, could be correct or could not, but I would have to see some proof or circumstantial evidence to consider that possibility a likely one. It could be an independent development which they themselves innovated to beautify a certain mitzvah we are all familiar with by now. Or maybe he's right.[/u] I would say that's worth looking into. Would you agree? Or are you scared of what might be found?
So the Ashkenaz Jews are not 'authentic' enough for you. So you think they copied the Yemenite customs? What evidence you have?
Maybe you don't consider Rambams Sefer HaMitzvot a reliable source?
From Rambams Sefer Hamitzvot: 43rd Prohibition
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/940319/jewish/Negative-Commandment-43.htm
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/940319/jewish/Negative-Commandment-43.htm
The 43rd prohibition is that we are forbidden from shaving1 the temples of our heads.
KWRBT,
I do not claim to know exactly what length the peyot should be grown. It is a matter of custom. But the Torah clearly and unambiguously commands us not to shave the corners of the head... Do you agree with that at least?
False. Not one chacham believes this. Not one. The halachic requirement, which can be found in the writings of poskim, not by looking at people walking around on the street or looking at pictures, is that it not be shaved off (bald). Leaving a tiny amount of hair suffices to fulfill this mitzvah. Your statement is an obfuscation.
No the 43rd prohibition is 'rounding the corners of the head', specifically shaving the peyot areas... Maybe you should get a copy of 'Sefer Hamitzvot' and study it...
Maybe you don't consider Rambams Sefer HaMitzvot a reliable source?
From Rambams Sefer Hamitzvot: 43rd Prohibition
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/940319/jewish/Negative-Commandment-43.htm
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/940319/jewish/Negative-Commandment-43.htm
The 43rd prohibition is that we are forbidden from shaving1 the temples of our heads.
So we agree that there is a commandment to not shave the peyot (the corners of the head)?
The length is the question.... And that is a matter of custom...
I can agree with that, and that is all I have been arguing about. It seemed to me you were arguing that it is not a prohibition to shave these hairs.
You stated it is not a mitzvot to grow peyot.... Rambam seems to differ in opinion..
Those you mention are clearly not Peyot, the hairs on the side of the head, which are in front of the ears.
The single braid from the center of the head is a different style, and not similar to peyot...
Throughout, a distinctive hairstyle was reserved for children. The head was shaved completely with one long strand left on the side of the head, the so-called "sidelock of youth." This "s" shaped side lock served as the hieroglyphic symbol for child or youth. This style was worn by both girls and boys until the advent of puberty.
Here is your 'sidelock of youth' picture...
(http://wysinger.homestead.com/ph06.jpg)
Clearly this is different from peyot as Jews have grown them.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/607780/jewish/The-Kippah-Skullcap.htm
A kippah (literally: dome) is the Hebrew word for skullcap, also referred to in Yiddish as a yarmulke, or less frequently as a koppel.
Jewish law requires men to cover their heads as a sign of respect and reverence for G‑d when praying, studying Torah, saying a blessing or entering a synagogue.
This practice has its roots in biblical times, when the priests in the Temple were instructed to cover their heads.
Traditionally, Jewish men and boys wear the kippah at all times, a symbol of their awareness of, and submission to, a "higher" entity.
Although it is not explicitly required by law, the practice is noted in the Talmud, and through the ages, this became an accepted Jewish custom to the point that according to the majority of halachic authorities, it is mandatory. One should, therefore, not walk or even sit, bareheaded. Small children should also be taught to cover their heads.
Aside from the commonblack kippah, many wear kippot (plural form of kippah) of various colors or designs. Some communities have developed kippah designs that are highly intricate works of art, such as those made by Jewish artisans from Yemen and Georgia, most of whom now live in Israel.
For more on the Kippah, click here and here.
KWRBT,
I only respond in a harsh tone when it seems to me you are speaking to me in a harsh tone.
In my opinion you take things I write as a personal affront to you and your understanding.
Ok, we will have to agree to disagree because we are not making any headway.
The reason Jews grow peyot is because of the commandment (Negative 43 by Rambam) and also because of Kabbalistic understanding. It has nothing to do with idolatry... If you think it does, so be it... I have researched the topic and found that this practice has been a unique signifying feature of Jews throughout the last few centuries at least, and I have no reason to suspect any bad intent by our forefathers.
You can go and question all our customs and find that a lot of them are not 'ancient'. So too the custom of wearing Kippot is a relatively new custom. There is no biblical commandment to even wear them... Do you wear a kippah?
Ok, I will not put words in your mouth but I will ask you this...
Because Ancient Idolatrous Egyptians would also grow beards.... Does that mean if a Jew grows a beard he is imitating ancient idolatrous practice....