JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mein Koran on February 28, 2013, 06:42:16 AM
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Can anybody tell me the Jewish response to Kairaites. Can anybody here prove the oral law was given to Moses? Thanks
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The Karaites are a sect of treason and heresy. The best prove of that is they have almost evaporated from existence due to assimilation and lack of reason to justify their existence.
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Lady 10, you missed one!
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Karaites are a heretical sect which has no association with the Jewish people, let alone the heritage of Abraham...
They deny the oral law which was given to the Jewish people at Sinai. The truth of the oral law is self-evident. We believe that the Torah is a book of Commandments (Mitzvot) and the sages have enumerated 613 commandments. Through these commandments we establish our covenant with our L-rd. Without the oral law we would not be able to fulfill a single commandments because the Torah is not clear what it means about so many of the commandments.
For instance, what does it mean to 'observe' or what does it mean to 'protect' the Shabbat? The Torah uses both words, and the Torah just doesn't use words for no reason. The Oral law explains clearly what the Written law intends when it says 'observe and protect' the Shabbat to keep it Holy.
So too the Torah commands us to 'write it on the doorpost of the house' and to 'bind it as frontlets between our eyes'. These two commands don't make an iota of sense unless we have the oral law which clearly explains these commands as the commands of Mezuzah and Tefillin.
So the Torah, written law, is completely useless without the oral law which explains how to fulfill the laws written in the five books. The Torah itself, when relating the giving of the Torah, clearly explains that Moses was given all the laws over and only wrote down the parts which needed to be written down, and taught the rest to the judges (sanhedrin) orally. It was kept orally until the times of the Roman conquest when it was written down in order to preserve the 'mesorah' (passed down laws).
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Here is this related from simpletoremembers Jewish site:
http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/oral-law-written-law/
1. What is the Oral Tradition (Torah SheBaal Peh)?
Torah SheBaal Peh (the Oral Tradition) is oral because ultimately it has no repository other than the minds of the Jewish people. Even when it was written down in the form of the Talmud, it was written is such a way that it retains a component which can only be learned from a teacher. The Oral Law is the way in which we connect with the Torah. It is the bringing of the Torah into this world all the way down until it rests in and connects with our minds [1] . Without the Oral Law, the Torah would always be something separate from ourselves, as is the Written Torah. This would render the Torah something abstract and removed. But this was not G-d’s Will. G-d’s whole reason for creating the Torah was so that we could keep it – so that we could become walking Sifrei Torah. The Oral Law is therefore not a luxury. It is G-d’s way of ensuring the implementation of His plan [2] .
2. How do I know that it is true? I Can Accept The Written Torah But Not The Oral Torah.
It is quite obvious from looking at the Written Law that it was intended to be accompanied by an oral component. There is not a single mitzvah in the Torah that can be understood in all its parameters without resort to the Oral Law. [3]
For example, the Torah states that the Tefillin should be as Totafos between the eyes. But there is absolutely no indication from the Torah as to what this word means. Are the Tefillin meant to be big, green round balls worn on our nose, or sharp red pointy ones worn on our foreheads. Maybe we should be wearing a smooth, flat, gold plate. Should there be anything written involved? What? And on what? And where should this be placed? The Written Torah does not give even a clue. Now if G-d has given us this Torah as a revelation of His Will, then he has played upon us a cruel joke. It is like the NY Subway announcements. We hear clearly the bit about, “And the next stop will be…” But just when we get to the crucial information, all we hear is static. It cannot be that G-d went to all the trouble to create this world for us, then gave us the Torah to tell us how to live here, and we open it up, it is incomprehensible. Clearly, there is another place, other than the Written Law where He tells us what Tefillin are and where we should wear them [4] .
G-d tells us not to work on the Sabbath, but nowhere does the written law define work. Nor does it tell us how many categories of work there are [5] . G-d tells us to slaughter an animal, but the Written Torah does not tell us how. Are we supposed to slaughter it from the neck or the throat. And with what kind of instrument? The Torah says that you should slaughter, “As I have commanded you [6] ”, implying that we know from somewhere else how to do this. But nowhere else in the written Law is anything clarified on this issue. The information must then be in the Oral Law. There are many, many such examples [7] .
There is a group of people called the Karaites who insisted that there is no such thing as the Oral Law. But, since the text did not tell them clearly what they had to do, they simply ended up inventing their own oral law. They chose man’s interpretations over G-d’s. A poor choice indeed.
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Muman thanks a million. I met one of these Karaites the other day and this is all new to me
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Lady 10, you missed one!
ahhh dwang! I was going to say something like that!
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Lady 10, you missed one!
Huh?
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Huh?
I suspect Ephraim considers this a trollish topic..
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I'll add to muman's post.
Any Jewish group that decides to change a rule or not accept one thing or tweak another thing in order to make things convenient for the times either disappears as a group, disappears into the mixed multitude, or become a whole completely different religion (eg early Christians were Jews and now it is a completely different religion compared to Judaism).
I'm surprised you met a karaite since they don't really exist anymore. Otherwise it's an individual who thinks he's cool and different by turning karaite much like some people convert to pagan wikinism.
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I'll add to muman's post.
Any Jewish group that decides to change a rule or not accept one thing or tweak another thing in order to make things convenient for the times either disappears as a group, disappears into the mixed multitude, or become a whole completely different religion (eg early Christians were Jews and now it is a completely different religion compared to Judaism).
I'm surprised you met a karaite since they don't really exist anymore. Otherwise it's an individual who thinks he's cool and different by turning karaite much like some people convert to pagan wikinism.
I didn't meet him in person so I don't know, he appeared to have an Arabic accent tho which was weird
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ahhh dwang! I was going to say something like that!
:::D. BTW what did you mean I changed my name?
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Can anybody tell me the Jewish response to Kairaites. Can anybody here prove the oral law was given to Moses? Thanks
Karaites were johnny-come-lately's who tried to invent their own Judaism. They were a type of Deform Movement but from hundreds of years ago. Treasonous enemies of the Jewish people. Barely any still exist.
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:::D. BTW what did you mean I changed my name?
Mikhail called you Ephraim
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Mikhail called you Ephraim
His name in the Hebrew is 'Ephraim Ben Noach'...
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Mikhail called you Ephraim
Muman?
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si senior. Mikhail 613
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His name in the Hebrew is 'Ephraim Ben Noach'...
It just looks like a bunch of blocky characters to me. If more than one person uses Hebrew writing for their user name I won't know which is which.
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Lady 10, you missed one!
Yes, I see that now Ephraim, thanks for telling me.
My bad for not putting this too but I will incorporate this topic's title is some future post...... :)
ahhh dwang! I was going to say something like that!
Too late, you had slow reactions this time...
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Huh?
I forgot to put this title too in one of my posts when I quoted EM's threads which seem trollish to me.