JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: mord on April 02, 2013, 09:58:02 AM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_and_the_Crusades
Defending in the Holy Land
The Jews almost single-handedly defended Haifa against the crusaders, holding out in the besieged town for a whole month (June–July 1099) in fierce battles. At this time, a full thousand years after the fall of the Jewish state, there were Jewish communities all over the country. Fifty of them are known and include Jerusalem, Tiberias, Ramleh, Ashkelon, Caesarea, and Gaza.[2][3]
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The Braves!
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
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The Braves!
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
:clap:
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The Heroes :soldier:
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Too bad that today Haifa is a bastion of kapoism after all that heroic history.
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Massacre of Jerusalem
What about this piece of the story?:
Jews fought side-by-side with Muslim soldiers to defend Jerusalem against the Crusaders.
[4] Saint Louis University Professor Thomas Madden, author of A Concise History of the Crusades, claims the "Jewish Defenders" of the city knew the rules of warfare and retreated to their synagogue to "prepare for death" since the Crusaders had breached the outer walls.[5] According to the Muslim chronicle of Ibn al-Qalanisi, "The Jews assembled in their synagogue, and the Franks burned it over their heads."[6] One modern-day source even claims the Crusaders "[circled] the screaming, flame-tortured humanity singing 'Christ We Adore Thee!' with their Crusader crosses held high."[7] However, a contemporary Jewish communication does not corroborate the report that Jews were actually inside of the Synagogue when it was set fire.[8] This letter was discovered among the Cairo Geniza collection in 1975 by historian Shelomo Dov Goitein.[9] Historians believe that it was written just two weeks after the siege, making it "the earliest account on the conquest in any language."[9] However, all sources agree that a synagogue was indeed burned during the siege.
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Nothing wrong with that story. Both groups were in danger from lunatic invaders so it is natural phenomenon for citizens to bend together in defense of their city. I truly believe it would happen again if third party is to destroy both Jews and muslims in Jerusalem.
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Massacre of Jerusalem
What about this piece of the story?:
Soo? At the time it was good, important and noble to fight against the Crusaders who throughout Europe massacred Jews and and in the land of Israel came to massacre Jews (and others). Of-course the natural thing to do was to fight against them joining the Muslims or anyone else at that time who were defending themselves and each other.
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Crusaders back then were like Al-Qaida today. Today Christians have switched roles with Muslims. Galut Edom has given way to Galut Ishmael.
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The people who called themselves Christians at that time behaved very badly to put it mildly.
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Crusaders back then were like Al-Qaida today. Today Christians have switched roles with Muslims. Galut Edom has given way to Galut Ishmael.
Galut Edom still exists though, they (as organized groups, * not all individuals) still wish for the destruction of Am Yisrael but they figured out that they can only do it in more clever ways and their usual torture and forced conversions don't work.
http://esseragaroth.blogspot.com/2013/04/happy-easter-israel.html
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....and then we get bibi
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....and then we get bibi
:::D :::D :::D :::D
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Thanks for the history of this era. Amazing how Christians and Jews win when they are loyal and obedient to Hashem....Definitely a theme throughout the bible, or Torah...straying away from Hashem, Idolatry, lack of faith, thinking we can do it on our own without his help...definitely does not bring us success, man has to learn the hard way, unfortunately.
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Thanks for the history of this era. Amazing how Christians and Jews win when they are loyal and obedient to Hashem....Definitely a theme throughout the bible, or Torah...straying away from Hashem, Idolatry, lack of faith, thinking we can do it on our own without his help...definitely does not bring us success, man has to learn the hard way, unfortunately.
How were the Christians 'righteous' in this? The Crusades were a wicked endeavor made by the Churches of Europe. Jews will never forget how they were treated at that time.
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Also, Xtians would massacre Jews to celebrate St. Valentine's Day. Jews should not celebrate such pagan nonsense which incorporates Venus and Cupid idolatry.
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This explains it but the bold parts are part of the problem of self-hating Jews but it's expected since this article is from Am Ha'Aretz.
A Jewish reason to hate Valentine's Day
There are many historical reasons for Jews to avoid February 14, apart from its blatantly Christian name and immodest connotatins.
By Uzi Silber | Feb.14, 2008 | 12:00 AM | 2
Beginning in kindergarten, our Upper West Side yeshiva teachers and rebbis implanted within us a virus known as Halloween Aversion Syndrome. This virus programmed our minds to utterly reject the dastardly thirty-first day of October and its wicked tradition of trick-or-treating. Halloween was muktzeh, idol worship, and pagan witchcraft rolled into one.
Our instructors would remind us that this was a particularly popular day for desecrating Jewish cemeteries.
In my case, their work bore fruit: I never trick-or-treated in our building on West End Avenue, nor would I distribute candy to all those pagan children in costume who came knocking at our door.
A similar process occurred with respect to St Valentine's Day, with its blatantly Christian name and immodest connotations. As a result, I instinctively recoil from all things Valentinian.
My anti-Valentine infection puzzles and disappoints my wife. She was raised in a particularly un-Jewish suburb in New Jersey, where, like everywhere outside the yeshiva world, Valentine's is diligently observed with red hearts, pink greeting cards, romantic dinners and bribe-like gifts of roses, jewelry and lingerie.
To her misfortune Valentine's antipathy was deeply embedded within me, and despite her best efforts, I remain thoroughly ambivalent about St Valentine's Day. A dozen roses are all it would take to please my wife, yet the virus causes me to routinely 'forget' to pick up a bouquet.
The virus was also responsible for my failure many years ago to secure reservations at a certain French restaurant on Lexington Avenue that my wife had eyed for some time. While initially upset, she was understanding upon discovering that the restaurant's menu consisted exclusively of braised rabbits, sautéed frogs, fried snails and boiled shrimps ? not very enticing for this kosher husband.
So whence this festival? St Valentine was a martyr of the late Roman Empire; actually there seem to have been three or even four Saint Valentines, all supposedly martyred in late antiquity. A feast on this day was established in his, or their honor. However many St Valentines had really existed, all would be no doubt disturbed by the contemporary nature of the day that bears their name.
The amorous legends that came to surround this day are understood to have been developed in 14th century England, notably by Geoffrey Chaucer and his circle, when the feast day of February 14th first became associated with romance and erotic pairing, at a time when courtly love was emerging into vogue. It didn't become a full-fledged commercially viable love-day until the 19th century.
Actually, Valentines might have been a Christianized version of Lupercalia, an ancient post-winter-early-spring Roman fertility and purification festival that was observed on February 15th in which boys slapped women with bloody goat's hides.
The amorously-charged Carnivale celebrations and its American variant known as Mardi Gras also take place at this time. And Purim, which also may have originated as a Persian winter's-end festival, falls around now on non-leap years.
Not to be a romantic spoiler, there is a grim, long forgotten reason for Jews not to rush out to invest in lingerie or make dinner reservations. According to Cecil Roth in his classic 'The Jewish Book of Days', it was on this day in 1349 that the Massacre of Strasbourg took place, perhaps the worst of the many anti-Jewish outrages that occurred during the Black Death. The locals had blamed fluctuations in the price of corn on the Jews, whom they suspected of being protected by the city council.
It was on February 14th that a mob barricaded the Judengasse (Street of the Jews) and drove the whole Jewish community into the cemetery where they built a huge pyre. About two thousand Jewish men, women and children were burned to death.
A new council was installed shortly after, and officially barred Jews from the city for a century. As it happens, this ban was eased 20 years later.
Among the spoils of that day was a shofar the mob had found in the main synagogue. This find confirmed the suspicions of the townsfolk: it was, they said, prepared by the Jews in order to betray the city. By blowing it, the Jews would be able to signal their unnamed allies lurking outside the city walls.
For many years after, the so-called 'Judenblos' was blown each evening on a 'grusselhorn', an imitation shofar, as a warning to any Jews within the city limits to depart before nightfall, and also as a reminder to the townspeople of their 'miraculous' rescue from the machinations of the devious Jews.
Jews could be forgiven then for choosing to skip Valentines. That's not to suggest however that romance is lacking in the lives of Hebrews: six months from now is the 15th day of the month of Av. Commonly known as Too b'Av, this is the Jewish love-fest. It's just as ancient as the Roman Lupercalia and at least as erotic as the Catholic Valentines.
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If it wasn't for Muslims though, the Jews would have been a targe of the Byzantine Empire. Arabia ended such a threat. Even Chaim said Islam didn't quite sink in yet. At that time Jews and Muslims where advanced while Europe was in a Dark Age.
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The crusades were a holy endeavor to take out the muzzbags, who had just massacred a bunch of their countries. Since Xtians couldn't legally read the bible, they clearly lost track of morality, and when the Pope decided that none of the rules of the bible applied when attacking Jerusalem, they became worse than muslims. Jews should never forget the muslim crusades, which came first, either.
Looting the Eastern Roman provinces was the main reason. The way those animals acted is anything but Christian. But who am I to say this. When I said what was done to Native Americans by the bloody hordes I was attacked by no other than Native American her self.
I can not be more proud of decision by kings of Serbs not to participated in mass killing and looting in the Holy Land. We let them pass through our lands and that is even sin but we had no option.
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Looting the Eastern Roman provinces was the main reason. The way those animals acted is anything but Christian. But who am I to say this. When I said what was done to Native Americans by the bloody hordes I was attacked by no other than Native American her self.
I can not be more proud of decision by kings of Serbs not to participated in mass killing and looting in the Holy Land. We let them pass through our lands and that is even sin but we had no option.
What would Soviets and leftists know about our history, besides the opposite? Zionist Jews rule the world!
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The crusades were a holy endeavor to take out the muzzbags, who had just massacred a bunch of their countries. Since Xtians couldn't legally read the bible, they clearly lost track of morality, and when the Pope decided that none of the rules of the bible applied when attacking Jerusalem, they became worse than muslims. Jews should never forget the muslim crusades, which came first, either.
Huh? Please lets not play games and say ooh they first were good and it was some holy cause and they lost track or something. Leave the Muslim out of it for now, the Crusaders were evil. And no even taking Jerusalem from the Muslims the Crusaders had no business doing.
Also their "rules of the Bible" were screams of "xst killers" and such. The common illiterate peasant did not participate in some "holy mission", it was all about pride and taking Jerusalem (the symbol that it is) from others and trying to prove their religion as being "supreme" and other such things that both they as the Muslims have been trying to do.
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Apparently the Crusades did not formally begin until 1096, not 1009 as the title of the thread incorrectly posits... Although I see that the first post discusses a battle in Haifa in 1099 which was actually three years into the First Crusade.
According to Jewish history (the information I have come across) it was a response to an offensive by the the Muslim turks on Christian pilgrims in Jerusalem...
http://www.chabad.org/calendar/view/day_cdo/aid/386680/jewish/1st-Crusade-Begins.htm
http://www.chabad.org/calendar/view/day_cdo/aid/1240250/jewish/Jews-of-Jerusalem-are-set-aflame.htm
1st Crusade Begins (1096)
In the early 1070s, the Muslim Turks commenced an offensive against the Christian pilgrims in Jerusalem. Pope Gregory VII offered his help to defend the Greek Christians, but the army he promised never materialized.
In 1095, his successor, Urban II, began to call for a holy war to liberate the Christians in Jerusalem. By the next year, more than 100,000 men had rallied to his call, forming the First Crusade. Urban and the local clergymen in Europe felt that the Crusade had another purpose as well--to annihilate all non-Christians in Europe who refused to convert to Christianity.
On their way to the Holy Land, the mobs of crusaders attacked many Jewish communities. On Shabbat, the 8th of Iyar, the Jews of Speyer (Rhineland-Palatinate), Germany were massacred. Many of the Jews of Worms, Germany were also massacred on this day; some of them took refuge in a local castle for a week before being slaughtered as they recited their morning prayers (see "Today in Jewish History" for Sivan 1).
Jews of Jerusalem are set aflame (1099)
When the crusaders captured Jerusalem during the First Crusade, the Jews of Jerusalem fled into a synagogue. The crusaders then set flame to the synagogue, burning alive all the Jewish men, women, and children who had taken refuge there. All Jews were barred from living in the city of Jerusalem for the following 88 years.
It appears this discussion is timely because one of the things we remember during the Omer period (the time we count the days from the 1st night of Passover to the day of Shavuot {50 days}) we remember the Jewish martyrs who gave their lives rather than convert to a religion which runs counter to Jewish faith.
Here is more information about this from the esteemed Rabbi and Historian Berel Wein:
http://www.rabbiwein.com/blog/remembering-the-crusades-649.html
REMEMBERING THE CRUSADES
One of the reasons why the sefira period of time between Pesach and Shavuot is marked as a period of semi-mourning on the Jewish calendar is the haunting memory of the pogroms that accompanied the First Crusade in 1096. The first thirty-three days of the sefira period mark the deaths of the twenty-four thousand students of Rabbi Akiva in the times of the Roman persecutions initiated by Hadrian in the second century CE. However, the final days of the sefira period are days of mourning because of the destruction of the Jewish tri-communities of Speyers (Shapiro), Worms (Vermayza) and Mainz (Magence.) The Christian crusaders who were to embark on their holy mission to free the Holy Land from the domination of the Moslem infidels found closer infidels - the Jews - at hand. These Jewish communities were themselves very ancient even in the eleventh century. They were Jewish communities in Roman times and Jewish legend traces them back even to pre-Roman times. They were the heart of Jewish life in the Rhineland and were the seats of Torah scholarship for the Ashkenazic Jewish communities of France and Germany. The great yeshiva of Rabenu Gershom, the Light of the Exile, was in Mainz, where Rashi journeyed in his youth to study Torah from the disciples of Rabenu Gershom. The Jewish community was prosperous, well established and seemingly secure. However, the fury of the Crusaders fell upon that community, with hundreds being slaughtered and Jewish property being burned and looted. The Crusaders dragged their Jewish victims to the baptismal fount demanding their conversion to Christianity. Some Jews succumbed, but most of the Jews of those communities accepted death, even killing their own families rather than accepting any form of conversion. It was a dark time in Jewish history and remains as deep and dark a page in the annals of the Christian Church.
In the aftermath of the destruction of the communities of Speyers, Worms and Mainz, the Jewish communities in France and the Rhineland declined. By the end of the Second Crusade in the twelfth century, it was obvious that the Jewish future in those countries was dismal. In the thirteenth century, after the failure of the Third Crusade, King Louis IX of France expelled all Jews from living in his domain. In effect, this ended Jewish life in France for many centuries. The shadow of the Crusades haunted European Jewry till our day. It was the first of the Christian Holocausts perpetrated against the Jewish people in Europe. Tragically, it would not be the last. However, the enormity of the later Holocausts - Chmelienicki, Hitler, Stalin - caused the memory of the Crusades and their bloody cruelty to fade in the Jewish consciousness. It is the observance of the sefira period that has not allowed that memory to be completely obliterated from Jewish consciousness and recollection. We should be grateful for this, for it is in memory that we eventually find purpose and redemption.
The Crusades were a complete failure as far as the Christian world was concerned. It laid the seeds for the omnipresent hatred of Christians and Christianity in the Moslem world. It failed in establishing Christian control over the Holy Land. It weakened the power and control of the Church over the European monarchs and nobles. Eventually, the failure of the Crusades led to destabilization of much of Christian Europe as kings no longer set off on far-off adventures as easily as before. For the Jews, the Crusades represented a very rude awakening as to their truly precarious position within Christian Europe. In the end ,all attempts by the Jews to reach accommodation with their neighbors living in Christian Europe proved to be fruitless. The hatred and anti-Semitism bred into Europe by the Crusades and its aftermath unfortunately still finds expression today in the open hostility towards Jews, Israel and the free Jewish life that so mark current European society. To blame all of this solely on increased Moslem population in Europe is to whistle past the graveyard. The memory of the Crusades is not only present within us in our commemoration of the sefira period. It exists as well in the memory of the descendants of the crusaders. Let us pray that the sefira period will somehow be transformed into happier times for all concerned.
Berel Wein
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America was founded on Zionism, If it wasn't for us there would be no Israel or United States... When the Messiah comes, he will straighten everything out, and bring us to Hashem ...
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America was founded on Zionism, If it wasn't for us there would be no Israel or United States... When the Messiah comes, he will straighten everything out, and bring us to Hashem ...
Not sure what you mean? Who is the us? Why no Israel or no America?
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....and then we get bibi
Lewinsky is a greater threat to the survival of Jews today than either Muslim Nazis or theologically anti-Semitic "Christians".
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Lewinsky is a greater threat to the survival of Jews today than either Muslim Nazis or theologically anti-Semitic "Christians".
You surely jest... Do not make light of the martyrs who died at the hands of blood-thirsty christians...
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Hence why I said "today".
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My family celebrates one such martyr for many centuries-St. Stephen. He was a young Jewish man who believed that Jesus was Messiah and got killed for it.
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My family celebrates one such martyr for many centuries-St. Stephen. He was a young Jewish man who believed that Jesus was Messiah and got killed for it.
And this has to do with the Crusades how?
And is this history or theology? The Crusades are historically accurate. The story of 'st stephen' exists only in the new testament.
Was this stephen an antisemite? It seems to me he was... At least his story in the NT seems to incite Jew hatred.. Also it seems he was like mohamud in a way, twisting stories from the Torah with inconsistent details..
See this and ask whether this man really existed:
Of the numerous speeches in Acts of the Apostles, Stephen's speech to the Sanhedrin is the longest.[6] To the objection that it seems unlikely that such a long speech could be reproduced in the text of Acts exactly as it was delivered, Biblical scholars have replied that Stephen's speech shows a distinctive personality behind it.[4] It has often been observed that there are numerous divergences in Stephen's re-telling of the stories of Israelite history and the scriptures where these stories originated, for instance Stephen says that Jacob's tomb was in Shechem [Acts 7:16], but Genesis 50:13 says Jacob's final resting place was a cave in Machpelah at Hebron.[Acts 8:1][4] There are at least five of these discrepancies, which some scholars have seen as errors, others as deliberate, in order to make specific theological points.[6] Numerous parallels between the accounts of Stephen in Acts and the Jesus of the Gospels - they both perform miracles, they are both tried by the Sanhedrin, they both pray for forgiveness for their killers, for instance - have led to suspicions that the author of Acts has emphasised or invented some or all of these[5] The criticism of traditional Jewish belief and practice in Stephen's speech is very strong - when he says God does not live in a dwelling "made by human hands", referring to the Temple, he is using an expression often employed by Biblical texts to describe idols.[4] The charge of anti-Judaism has been laid against the speech, for instance by the priest and scholar of comparative religion S. G. F. Brandon, who states "The anti-Jewish polemic of this speech reflects the attitude of the author of Acts."[7]
Indeed it seems that your St Stephen was what caused a lot of Christian Jew hatred....
PS: We pray for the restoration of the Holy Temple every day. I think this St Stephen was off his rocker for what he said and hope he is roasting in Gehinnom to this day.
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The bloody christian crusades killed thousands and thousands of innocent Jews...
http://www.torah.org/features/holydays/omer2.html
PROPHETIC SUFFERINGS
In the times of the Crusades, there were more tragedies of immense proportions during the sefirah. In 1095 CE, during the sefirah, the Jews of over one hundred Ashkenazic communities were mercilessly massacred by the first Crusade. These included the large communities of the cities of Shair, Worms, and Magenca. In Shabbat prayer services between Passover and Shavuot, special lamentations are added to the liturgy to commemorate these massacres. Also, the prayer "Av HaRachamim," which is said all year round on Shabbat to eulogize Jewish martyrs, was composed primarily as a result of the devastation caused by the first Crusade. In some communities, "Av HaRachamim" is said only during the sefirah.
Fifty years later the second Crusade set out, between Passover and Shavuot. Again, thousands of Jews were massacred. According to Polish Jewish tradition, a special hymn written about this tragedy is to be said in the very beginning of the sefirah -- on the first Shabbat after Passover.
So, too, many of the "transports" to the death camps during the Holocaust were carried out during the sefirah.
Also, every year, the public reading of Parashat Bechukosai falls during the sefirah. It is said in the name of the Vilna Gaon that this was intentional, for this Torah portion prophetically describes the terrible suffering that the Jewish people would have to endure for failing to remain faithful to the Torah. The Sages who lived long before the Crusades, and before the times of Rabbi Akiva, too, instituted the weekly readings. According to the Vilna Gaon, the Sages of old foresaw that the period between Passover and Shavuot would be filled with sadness. Therefore they intentionally scheduled Bechukosai to be read during this period in particular, to clarify to the nation what, in fact, would be the cause for its woes.
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"Make for Me a Sanctuary, and I will dwell in their midst" (Ex. 25:8).
http://www.ravkooktorah.org/TERUMA-73.htm
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One good thing about 'St Stephen' is the Grateful Dead song about him...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbj8AAfs_ZQ
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Some other discrepancies in the 'book of acts'...
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/isaiah53/why-jews-cannot-accept-the-new-testament/
There are also numerous contradictions in the New Testament book of Acts. In chapter 7:51, we are told that the disciple Stephen is “full of the Holy Spirit.” [6] However, when recounting basic Jewish history, this spirit is non-existent because he contradicts well-known, undisputed facts clearly stated in the Tanach.
Every child who reads a Passover Haggadah knows that the Jews went down to Egypt as a group comprised of 70 people and subsequently became a great nation. This statement appears in the Tanach in three places. “Your fathers went down to Egypt seventy persons in all.” [Deuteronomy 10:22, Exodus 1:5, Genesis 46:27]
It is inconceivable that Stephen, a person described as “full of the Holy Spirit”, would mistakenly state, “…and Joseph sent word and invited Jacob his father and all his relatives to come to him, seventy‑five persons in all.” [Act 7:14]
Moreover, Stephen continues to recount incorrect biblical facts when he states that “Jacob went down to Egypt and there he and our fathers died. From there they were removed to Shechem and laid in the tomb which Abraham had purchased for a sum of money from the sons of Hamor in Shechem.” [Acts 7:16]
Jacob was not buried in Shechem in a cave purchased by Abraham from Hamor. In truth, Jacob was buried in Hebron in a cave bought by Abraham from Ephron. “For his sons carried him (Jacob) into the land of Canaan, and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, [7] the field that Abraham bought as a burial plot from Ephron…” [Genesis 50:13]
Once again, we see that Stephen was obviously not filled with divine inspiration when he got his basic facts confused. In fact, it was Joseph who was buried in Shechem [Joshua 24:32] in a field purchased by Jacob from Emmor. [Genesis 33:19]
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=83:which-version-of-stephenss-acts-7-speech-is-correct&catid=53:disciples&Itemid=491
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Im sorry Serbian Army... But I don't think that comparing St Stephen to those innocent Jews killed in the crusades is a valid comparison. And if you were attempting to justify the murder of 1000s of Jews because of what is supposed to have happened in one of the most antisemitic parts of the New Testament then you will not get away with it.
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Not sure what you mean? Who is the us? Why no Israel or no America?
By "us" I mean the Zionists, also, if it wasn't for the Jews, there would be no United States of America. If it wasn't for the U.S.,Great Britain, and others, there would be no Israel. Imo.
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Muslims say Joseph was buried in Hebron and built a structure on the original Herodian walls surrounding the Cave of the Machpelah which they call "Joseph's Tomb". Maybe they got misinformation from the Steven moron. That Steven is no better than the one from Germany (Weigang).
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Im sorry Serbian Army... But I don't think that comparing St Stephen to those innocent Jews killed in the crusades is a valid comparison. And if you were attempting to justify the murder of 1000s of Jews because of what is supposed to have happened in one of the most antisemitic parts of the New Testament then you will not get away with it.
Let's make a Christian Topic? So Christians and Jews can not offens eachother? Seperate people, am i right? Our own religions are much more important then the thread of Islam? Don't you think?
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By "us" I mean the Zionists, also, if it wasn't for the Jews, there would be no United States of America. If it wasn't for the U.S.,Great Britain, and others, there would be no Israel. Imo.
America was based on Biblical principles and the American federal government structure with its division of powers is based on Biblical Israel. Jews financed the American Revolution. America is New Israel for Gentiles escaping Europe and many place names were given names of Biblical locations.
But Israel would exist regardless of America. Truman was President in 1948. He was not a friend of Israel. I think Kennedy and Reagan were the best regarding Israel. Kennedy's brother was killed by a Jordanian Nazi. Nowadays the assassin would be called a Fakestinian but back then no one ever heard of such a people. The assassin from Judea and Samaria was just called a Jordanian immigrant to the US.
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:usa+israel: :fist:
This should serve as an inspiration. Jews should be like these great warriors that lived in Biblical times and fought
and won great battles against their enemies!
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:usa+israel: :fist:
This should serve as an inspiration. Jews should be like these great warriors that lived in Biblical times and fought
and won great battles against their enemies!
How is 1099 C.E. Biblical times?
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Lewinsky is a greater threat to the survival of Jews today than either Muslim Nazis or theologically anti-Semitic "Christians".
???
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:usa+israel: :fist:
Then in more recent ancient history, the Jews were certainly more brave and noble than what you have now!
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Im sorry Serbian Army... But I don't think that comparing St Stephen to those innocent Jews killed in the crusades is a valid comparison. And if you were attempting to justify the murder of 1000s of Jews because of what is supposed to have happened in one of the most antisemitic parts of the New Testament then you will not get away with it.
Where was he justifying killing Jews?
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???
When Muslims or anti-Semitic Christians tell Lewinsky to jump, he asks "how high". His entire life revolves around getting down on his knees and servicing Nazi Jew-haters like Clinton and Obama. He has the military force to defeat all the world's anti-Semites but instead surrenders to them.
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I find it very unwise to insult the first Saint of Christian Church. We will never know why Mumam feels so much insecure when having discussion about religious beliefs of others? Because of his insecurity he jumps to insult everyone else. Is this helping Jews in any way or was it ever helping Jews?
You must know who you are and what you stand for but without cowardly attacking those different than you. Personally I don't hate any religion until members of that religion interfere with my well being or well being of my people and try to oppress us.
I had situation where a moderate muslim gave me their holy book to read. Was I too friendly with him or was I pretending to be his great friend? No, I was just respectful to him and indeed read some of verses in their book after which I passed it to some muslim because I did not want to destroy the gift.
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:usa+israel: :fist:
Then in more recent ancient history, the Jews were certainly more brave and noble than what you have now!
Many Jews are brave and noble in today's age. I find this offensive.
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I find it very unwise to insult the first Saint of Christian Church. We will never know why Mumam feels so much insecure when having discussion about religious beliefs of others? Because of his insecurity he jumps to insult everyone else. Is this helping Jews in any way or was it ever helping Jews?
You must know who you are and what you stand for but without cowardly attacking those different than you. Personally I don't hate any religion until members of that religion interfere with my well being or well being of my people and try to oppress us.
I had situation where a moderate muslim gave me their holy book to read. Was I too friendly with him or was I pretending to be his great friend? No, I was just respectful to him and indeed read some of verses in their book after which I passed it to some muslim because I did not want to destroy the gift.
It might have something to do with Jews being slaughtered in the name of Jesus, and thousands of Jews being lost to forced conversions...
Jesus would be pissed at what the Church has become...
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Many Jews are brave and noble in today's age. I find this offensive.
Really?
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Care to find out?
I was talking about the offended part.
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Really?
Yes, really. Just because their are some problems with politics (especially with the whole world hating on Am Yisrael) doesn't mean their aren't many brave and noble Jews today in Israel (and outside as well).
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Yes, really. Just because their are some problems with politics (especially with the whole world hating on Am Yisrael) doesn't mean their aren't many brave and noble Jews today in Israel (and outside as well).
Very true... It seems that many people only see the bad and do not give credit for the good that Jews are doing in the land.
It is wrong to compare the Crusades to Israeli politics...
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:usa+israel: :fist:
No offense intended Tag Mehir Tzedek. What I mean is that in modern times, they are willing to make many concessions and G-d forbid, even think of giving up land, even though they were more warriorlike then,there are certainly brave and noble Jews now as well.