JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: IsraelForever on August 01, 2013, 06:21:02 PM
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http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.539233
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Sorry but these should be stoned..
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Sorry but these should be stoned..
That's a bit harsh. What I find interesting about this is the fact that he has a beard, that is a male secondary sex characteristic, it's says, "I'm a male human being," very loudly. Whether or not you like beards or not, it says, in one way or another, "i'm a man." Now you have a man who has a beard all day long, but enjoys cavorting with men dressed as a drag queen. How can that be? One thing as an adult, I've observed about certain homosexual men is this contrast. It's not like they are masculine and masculine--well some are, but these drag queens look and sound and act like men, maybe except a few, yet they enjoy parading around as 'women.' To me it makes no sense. Reducing it to all of these people are just sinners minimizes the complexity of this disarmingly odd issue
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WTF, there are "schools" now for every type of useless occupation.
He's still looking for love. But this year, Hadar found acceptance — and self-expression — at Drag Yourself, a Tel Aviv school offering 10-month courses for budding drag performers. Students learn how to teeter on high heels, apply false eyelashes and fashion their own drag personas. Hadar, still a beginner, graduates next month.
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I think I want to brech.
>:(
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What a chillul Hashem! Haaretz just loves to parade this mentally unstable and sick individual because they are G-dless leftist traitors who wish to destroy the Jewish people and all morality. Typical.
Just shy of midnight, Shahar Hadar trades his knitted white yarmulke for a wavy blond wig and a pink velvet dress.
Cheers greet him in a packed gay bar as he starts to swivel to a Hebrew pop song, his shiny red lips mouthing lyrics that mean more to him than the audience knows: "With God's help you'll have the strength / To overcome and give your all."
I wish I had this picture when we were making our video on the subject of homosexuality.
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Sorry but these should be stoned..
With weed? :laugh:
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With weed? :laugh:
Im sure they probably do get stoned every night with weed... I was referring to how these kinds of things result in leading a number of Jews down a path of abomination.
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What a chillul Hashem! Haaretz just loves to parade this mentally unstable and sick individual because they are G-dless leftist traitors who wish to destroy the Jewish people and all morality. Typical.
I wish I had this picture when we were making our video on the subject of homosexuality.
Isn't this transvestism?
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What a chillul Hashem! Haaretz just loves to parade this mentally unstable and sick individual because they are G-dless leftist traitors who wish to destroy the Jewish people and all morality. Typical.
I wish I had this picture when we were making our video on the subject of homosexuality.
Logically, I would think men who dress as women or vice-versa as an extreme have a gender identity that is not quite the norm. But when a man with a beard walks around all day as a man with a beard, then dresses as a woman, it doesn't make sense to me. If you had some little effeminate guy, that loved to wear women's clothes at least one could see the commonality. But a man with a beard, it just doesnt make sense to me. My bet would be that the brains of these men are different, that the sex/gender regulating part of the brain n the hypothalamus must be different. There were studies some years ago regarding this. The only thing we do know is that on average, men who are homosexual have larger interhemispheric neural connections, meaning they are genuinely better with language (like women). I would not think this would be necessarily true if the men were undetectably gay and took the male role in sexual relations. Identifying all of this as 'sin' and endingthe discussion is anti-intellectual. Perhaps some of us have more of a stake in understanding this, but the intellectual exploration of this is not gay, it's a quest to understand what makes it so and why--even if you think it's the worst thing on earth. Just my two cents. If someone wants to say something nasty to me, then please do it in private via PM
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There's different levels of transgenderism. Some transgenders don't want to make a full transition but just feel somewhere in between, like 75% male and 25% female or something like that. There are transgender women who don't like to have breasts and would like to have the top surgery to be able to take their shirt off in public and pass as men, but are fine with not having the bottom surgery as they don't really have a problem with being female so much as they don't feel like they fit a female gender role.
The problem with all this is of course is that who and what you are is not determined by how you "feel". People are created as a male or as a female and they should accept that identity. It doesn't mean they have to be completely stereotypically masculine or feminine, but they should accept their maleness or femaleness as assigned to them at birth.
I think a man wearing dresses and attempting to look like a woman is a form of self-hatred, unless it's to dress up as a character in a play or something like that. The same thing goes for women who go out of their way to look butch. I don't know why they would be so ashamed of their womanhood.
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Hi Ruby,
Hope you are well! Long time no speak. I can't figure out how someone who looks at themselves with a beard in the mirror, all day long,could conceive of themselves as even wanting to look female. Just for argument's sake, I'll take myself for an example. While I have never felt this urge, I am clean shaven, been told I look younger than I am, when I was younger, peple could see right off I was my mother's son, I'm thin, but sort of athletic. Now, If I dressed up like this, one could say, well he's thin, he has a pretty boy face, blah blah blah. Some person could make an argument in their head that, well, he's this or that or whatever--even though it would be incorrect.
You look at this guy and he looks like a total GUY, he has a beard which I think is an inescapable way of communicating to the world immediately your MALENESS, so why would he alternatively want to be in a dress and makeup? I dont think racking it as just being "sick" is descriptive about what is actually going on this person's brain. I've had the nerve maybe once when I was younger to ask someone what this was about and theyused the word "queer," but that's just as limiting I think as the word "sick." If one is trying to understand these kinds of odd behaviors, I think one needs to be curious. I have to admit for myself it is very JARRING mentally and perhaps that is why i am curious
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You know what I can't get my mind around... You have gay couples where, one acts like a man and one that acts like the woman. If you're a male fag and your mate acts like a woman, why not date a real woman?
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I have no interest in why these perverts act the way they do. No more interest than I have in figuring why terrorists want to kill me. I can care less about what goes on in their heads. The problem is that they are spreading the belief that it is OK to act in this manner. If the purpose to figure out why they act this way is to help them be normal, then it may be for the good, but otherwise you are just making excuses for their perversions. A thief always believes he is right and everyone else is wrong, he also believes that everyone steals if they have a chance to steal. A child molester too rationalizes his perversion as something he is unable to stop and it is natural to him. Coddling this kind of mental disease is the wrong thing to do for society. As I said previously, the thing to do is to try to help them, if they persist in their wrongdoing they should be punished.
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You know what I can't get my mind around... You have gay couples where, one acts like a man and one that acts like the woman. If you're a male fag and your mate acts like a woman, why not date a real woman?
Yes, this is a parallel kind of question. I often think I can tell almost right off who is the 'man' in the relationship and who is the 'woman.' This is one reason why I think there is some hard core brain differences at work.
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Yes, this is a parallel kind of question. I often think I can tell almost right off who is the 'man' in the relationship and who is the 'woman.' This is one reason why I think there is some hard core brain differences at work.
Brain differences, sprain differences... So too a thief and murderer may have abnormal brains, does that make what they do right?
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I have no interest in why these perverts act the way they do. No more interest than I have in figuring why terrorists want to kill me. I can care less about what goes on in their heads. The problem is that they are spreading the belief that it is OK to act in this manner. If the purpose to figure out why they act this way is to help them be normal, then it may be for the good, but otherwise you are just making excuses for their perversions. A thief always believes he is right and everyone else is wrong, he also believes that everyone steals if they have a chance to steal. A child molester too rationalizes his perversion as something he is unable to stop and it is natural to him. Coddling this kind of mental disease is the wrong thing to do for society. As I said previously, the thing to do is to try to help them, if they persist in their wrongdoing they should be punished.
Muman,
I have a great deal of respect for you, but I disagree. This is not the same thing.
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Muman,
I have a great deal of respect for you, but I disagree. This is not the same thing.
I know you disagree, and this is fine with me...
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2141160/Born-bad-Rapists-psychopathic-murderers-physically-different-brains-normal-people.html
Psychopaths have physically different brains from 'normal' people - and may be 'born to kill'.
In scans by scientists, they had less grey matter in the areas of the brain important for understanding other peoples' emotions.
Psychopathy - a disorder suffered by many (but not all) violent criminals - is characterised by an inability to 'empathise'.
Now it seems it might be caused by a structural abnormality in the brain.
The new finding may mean that there is simply no point treating psychopaths with current 'behavioural' treatments.
The researchers, based at King's College London's Institute of Psychiatry, said the differences in psychopaths' brains mark them out even from other violent criminals with anti-social personality disorders (ASPD), and from healthy non-offenders.
I suggest that a psychopathic murderer should be put to death.... That will cure his problem...
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2141160/Born-bad-Rapists-psychopathic-murderers-physically-different-brains-normal-people.html
Psychopaths have physically different brains from 'normal' people - and may be 'born to kill'.
In scans by scientists, they had less grey matter in the areas of the brain important for understanding other peoples' emotions.
Psychopathy - a disorder suffered by many (but not all) violent criminals - is characterised by an inability to 'empathise'.
Now it seems it might be caused by a structural abnormality in the brain.
The new finding may mean that there is simply no point treating psychopaths with current 'behavioural' treatments.
The researchers, based at King's College London's Institute of Psychiatry, said the differences in psychopaths' brains mark them out even from other violent criminals with anti-social personality disorders (ASPD), and from healthy non-offenders.
I suggest that a psychopathic murderer should be put to death.... That will cure his problem...
:::D They're like zombies Hashem put on earth to test good people.
I don't know if you can put all thieves in the same category as fags and murders, when I was younger I would steal food from stores, and other things from people I thought were rich, and sell it for money. I used the Robin Hood theory, steal from the rich, and give to the poor. I was poor, so it was all far to me. But I changed along time ago, I won't even let a store forget to charge me for something. If they do, I'll say something or go back in and pay for it.
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I think in order to help these people it might be good to know what's going on inside their minds. I'm comfortable with who I am so I can't completely empathize but I do think it's worth it to a certain degree to try to understand them if there are going to be ministries dedicated to helping them.
I don't think we can completely rule out mental illness. Having a dissonance between the body and the mind is at the very least a disorder.
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I think in order to help these people it might be good to know what's going on inside their minds. I'm comfortable with who I am so I can't completely empathize but I do think it's worth it to a certain degree to try to understand them if there are going to be ministries dedicated to helping them.
I don't think we can completely rule out mental illness. Having a dissonance between the body and the mind is at the very least a disorder.
Exactly, in this case, ignorance is not bliss for the homosexual person who doesn't want to be homosexual. This is completely unrelated to pedophilia or bestiality for the reasons that have been stated on this forum one thousand times
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Here is something very bizarre. This guy looks like such a hot woman! You gotta see this!
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/transgender-teens-girl-guy-guy-girl-19529634
So she has a penis and he has a vagina! lol that might work. In a mental hospital.
Just joking but s(he) is very hot really unbelieveable
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Pretty sickening....abnormal....perverse!
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Sorry but these should be stoned..
This statement is unacceptable. Stoning people to death is a barbaric muslim death practice. Jews and Christians and others should reject the practice completely, without exception.
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This statement is unacceptable. Stoning people to death is a barbaric muslim death practice. Jews and Christians and others should reject the practice completely, without exception.
Actually there was stoning in Judaism when there was a Sanhedrin.
It didn't haven't often bid it did occasionally happen.
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This statement is unacceptable. Stoning people to death is a barbaric muslim death practice. Jews and Christians and others should reject the practice completely, without exception.
Unacceptable to you maybe, but you seem to not realize that Jewish law does require a man who sleeps with a man, who has been witnessed by two others who warned him to not engage in homosexual relations, and who is brought to the Sanhedrin to be stoned to death. This has absolutely nothing to do with islam and the comparison is an insult.
Those religious Jews here know we pray every day for the restoration of the Sanhedrin, the supreme Jewish court, and the resumption of Torah law. I know that Rabbi Kahane believed that some day soon (G-d willing) we will establish a true Torah state which will carry out the Torah as we were commanded so clearly by Hashem at Mount Sinai. So while it may seem unacceptable to NoMosqueHere, it is completely acceptable according to the word of Hashem who considers such sexual relations to be an abomination.
Regarding cross-dressing, it is not a capital offense, but it is dealt with through lashes.
http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/235,118/What-does-the-Torah-say-about-cross-dressing.html
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/940317/jewish/Negative-Commandment-40.htm
The 40th prohibition is that men are also1 forbidden from adorning themselves with women's ornaments.
The source of this commandment is G‑d's statement,2 "A man shall not wear a woman's garment."
Any man who adorns3 himself or wears an article which is known in that place to be specifically for women is punished by lashes.
You should know that this practice — of women adorning themselves with male articles or men with female articles — is sometimes done to arouse lust, as is well known among the nations; and sometimes done as a kind of idolatrous worship, as explained in books dealing with this subject.4 It is often stipulated in making some kame'ot5 that if a man is making it, he must wear women's clothing, and wear gold jewelry, pearls and the like; and if a woman is making it, she must wear armor and weapons. This is very well known among those who practice it.
Maybe it would be wise for people to read up on the sexual relations which are forbidden by our Torah:
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0320.htm
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Muman,
You would not stone gay people who did you, nor those you loved any wrong. You wouldn't. Homosexuality is against the law of the Bible, that doesn't mean you, and a I know you, would elect to become mercenary supreme by killing people that did nothing to you. That's madness. There was a reason why the sanhedrin executed, whatm but one person in 70 years, ONE.
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Muman,
You would not stone gay people who did you, nor those you loved any wrong. You wouldn't. Homosexuality is against the law of the Bible, that doesn't mean you, and a I know you, would elect to become mercenary supreme by killing people that did nothing to you. That's madness. There was a reason why the sanhedrin executed, whatm but one person in 70 years, ONE.
Yes, but that is not a reason to accept the homosexuals as normal. The law is the law, for a reason, and a reason which I accept. I accept the complete Torah, not just the parts which are comfortable to me. While I am not perfect I admit the things I do which are wrong, and I work diligently to correct my observance of the commandments. So long as this is the goal I think there would be very few openly gay people, because once there are two witnesses and a warning, there may be consequences. I am the first one to state that the Torah repeatedly, more times than the commandment against homosexual relations (which occur twice in the Torah), states that one who desecrates the Sabbath deserves the death penalty. I am not a hypocrite because I believe that when the sanhedrin is in existence all the Torah laws will be enforced.
The reason that so few people were executed by the sanhedrin was because the court was instructed to 1) Try to find extenuating circumstances to find the convict not guilty. 2) High standard of witnesses and having to give a warning before the crime. 3) If the court found unanimously that the convict was guilty then the convict would be found not guilty...
At least they will have to take it back into the closet rather than parade it in Jerusalem..
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http://www.meaningfullife.com/torah/parsha/devarim/shoftim/Unanimous_Verdict.php
In Jewish law, the court’s primary responsibility is to find merit for the accused, and to seek to preserve his life. "The congregation will judge him and the congregation will preserve him”[1]. The process of trying a capital case is overwhelmingly skewed towards the benefit of the defendant. No circumstantial evidence is accepted. The testimony of not one but two eyewitnesses is required, and both are carefully cross-examined for any discrepancies in their accounts. Furthermore, capital punishment is only meted out in a case where deliberate intent can be conclusively proved. Two witnesses must be produced who can testify to having warned the defendant in advance that his action was wrong, and of the consequences of that action. Another requirement of capital cases is the rule of "halanat hadin,”[2] that a guilty verdict must not be completed in one day, but must be deferred for another day in order to leave more opportunity to find credit.
In Maimonides’ Laws of Sanhedrin[3], the following law is cited: "If a Sanhedrin[4] opens a capital case with a unanimous guilty verdict, he is exempt, until some merit is found to acquit him; then, those who convict will be in the majority, and then he will be put to death."
The source of Maimonides’ ruling is in the Talmud Sanhedrin.[5] The reason given for the exemption is that the court did not fulfill the condition of "halanat hadin", deferring judgment for the next day in order to find merit. Since they have all found him guilty, they will no longer find merit for him.
It is possible to interpret the meaning of the Talmudic passage in one of two ways. One is that the court’s verdict is disqualified, due to the lack of "halanat hadin". Another way of viewing it is that by failing to find even one facet of merit, the Sanhedrin has disqualified itself from judging the case.
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According to Jewish thought, the purpose of punishment is for expiation of the sin. Indeed, it can even be said that ‘punishment’ is an inaccurate translation of the Hebrew ‘onesh’. Punishment is not retribution, a Divine ‘getting even.’ It is a cleansing process, like a needle used to remove a splinter. Furthermore, reward and punishment in Torah is actually cause and effect. The Torah’s prescription for various forms of behavior (be it positive or negative) is no more punishment than say, fire ‘punishing’ the hand that is placed into it.
This is stated explicitly regarding the punishment of lashes: “Once he has been flogged, he is as your brother.”[6] Carrying out a capital verdict expunges the sin and enables the condemned one to experience eternal life[7]. Maimonides rules regarding all who incur death by the courts, or punishment by lashes, that "their death or lashes do not atone for their sins until they will do teshuva and confess their guilt.”[8] It is understood from Maimonides’ wording that the intention of the sentence is to bring atonement to the soul of the judged, which is facilitated through teshuva and confession (confession being a form of repentance).
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JTFE2,
Of course I would never suggest anyone take the law into their hands and use the Torah to justify harassing or 'punishing' a person who is transgressing this law. As I am against those who harass Shabbat violators also... I also am one who seeks to find the good in all humanity, and find it very sad that even one life is terminated (both animal and human). But I also place a lot of trust in the Torah of Moses, and I feel that it is essential to preserve morality and civility in the world. This is why I bring up this topic...
But it bothers me that the transgression has become 'cool' and 'accepted' and that we are supposed to be 'tolerant' towards all kinds of perversion. This is another reason I bring up this topic.
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JTFE2,
Of course I would never suggest anyone take the law into their hands and use the Torah to justify harassing or 'punishing' a person who is transgressing this law. As I am against those who harass Shabbat violators also... I also am one who seeks to find the good in all humanity, and find it very sad that even one life is terminated (both animal and human). But I also place a lot of trust in the Torah of Moses, and I feel that it is essential to preserve morality and civility in the world. This is why I bring up this topic...
But it bothers me that the transgression has become 'cool' and 'accepted' and that we are supposed to be 'tolerant' towards all kinds of perversion. This is another reason I bring up this topic.
Just so you know (and I do not think you are saying otherwise), I do not think this transgression and this bizarre one in particular is cool--at all. I think it's strange and weird. Sleep well, got to get up early!
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It is no coincidence I bring up these laws during the week we are reading the Torah portion of 'Shoftim'/Judges. This parsha contains the laws for the judges of the sanhedrin...
http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/2278/jewish/Shoftim-in-a-Nutshell.htm
Moses instructs the people of Israel to appoint judges and law enforcement officers in every city. “Justice, justice shall you pursue,” he commands them, and you must administer it without corruption or favoritism. Crimes must be meticulously investigated and evidence thoroughly examined—a minimum of two credible witnesses is required for conviction and punishment.
In every generation, says Moses, there will be those entrusted with the task of interpreting and applying the laws of the Torah. “According to the law that they will teach you, and the judgment they will instruct you, you shall do; you shall not turn away from the thing that they say to you, to the right nor to the left.”
Shoftim also includes the prohibitions against idolatry and sorcery; laws governing the appointment and behavior of a king; and guidelines for the creation of “cities of refuge” for the inadvertent murderer. Also set forth are many of the rules of war: the exemption from battle for one who has just built a home, planted a vineyard, married, or is “afraid and soft-hearted”; the requirement to offer terms of peace before attacking a city; and the prohibition against wanton destruction of something of value, exemplified by the law that forbids to cut down a fruit tree when laying siege (in this context the Torah makes the famous statement, “For man is a tree of the field”).
The Parshah concludes with the law of the eglah arufah—the special procedure to be followed when a person is killed by an unknown murderer and his body is found in a field—which underscores the responsibility of the community and its leaders not only for what they do, but also for what they might have prevented from being done.