JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: muman613 on October 01, 2013, 02:32:40 AM
-
I really should have stopped reading the news a few minutes earlier and I would have not read this story till tomorrow morning when I wake up (that would have been a bummer).... We, the Jewish people in galut, really need some help and fast. I can hear that 'sucking sound' getting closer and closer.... My faith tells me that a remnant of Jews will always survive, but my eyes and my heart feel a holocaust going on and my family has been a part of it.
I asked Hashem for forgiveness of my transgressions. But virtually my entire family has been decimated by assimilation. This is what happens only three generations in this country. Look at this report which makes me want to vomit...
http://www.israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2013/10/pew-poll-71-of-non-orthodox-us-jews.html
Pew poll: 71% of non-Orthodox US Jews intermarry
I should preface this post by saying that I don't know anything about any of the participants in the wedding ceremony and that they may or may not have anything to do with the story below.
A new Pew poll - the first on the subject in more than ten years - reports that 58% of American Jews and 71% of non-Orthodox American Jews are marrying out of the faith. Pew is calling it a major decline in Jewish identity.
The intermarriage rate, a bellwether statistic, has reached a high of 58 percent for all Jews, and 71 percent for non-Orthodox Jews — a huge change from before 1970 when only 17 percent of Jews married outside the faith. Two-thirds of Jews do not belong to a synagogue, one-fourth do not believe in God and one-third had a Christmas tree in their home last year.
“It’s a very grim portrait of the health of the American Jewish population in terms of their Jewish identification,” said Jack Wertheimer, a professor of American Jewish history at the Jewish Theological Seminary, in New York.
The survey, by the Pew Research Center’s Religion & Public Life Project, found that despite the declines in religious identity and participation, American Jews say they are proud to be Jewish and have a “strong sense of belonging to the Jewish people.”
While 69 percent say they feel an emotional attachment to Israel, and 40 percent believe that the land that is now Israel was “given to the Jewish people by God,” only 17 percent think that the continued building of settlements in the West Bank is helpful to Israel’s security.
...
“It’s very stark,” Alan Cooperman, deputy director of the Pew religion project, said in an interview. “Older Jews are Jews by religion. Younger Jews are Jews of no religion.”
The trend toward secularism is also happening in the American population in general, with increasing proportions of each generation claiming no religious affiliation.
But Jews without religion tend not to raise their children Jewish, so this secular trend has serious consequences for what Jewish leaders call “Jewish continuity.” Of the “Jews of no religion” who have children at home, two-thirds are not raising their children Jewish in any way. This is in contrast to the “Jews with religion,” of whom 93 percent said they are raising their children to have a Jewish identity.
Reform Judaism remains the largest American Jewish movement, at 35 percent. Conservative Jews are 18 percent, Orthodox 10 percent, and groups such as Reconstructionist and Jewish Renewal make up 6 percent combined. Thirty percent of Jews do not identify with any denomination.
In a surprising finding, 34 percent said you could still be Jewish if you believe that Jesus was the Messiah. :'(
...
While earlier generations of Orthodox Jews defected in large numbers, those in the younger generation are being retained. Several scholars attributed this to the Orthodox marrying young, having large families and sending their children to Jewish schools.
Steven M. Cohen, a sociologist of American Jewry at Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion, in New York, and a paid consultant on the poll, said the report foretold “a sharply declining non-Orthodox population in the second half of the 21st century, and a rising fraction of Jews who are Orthodox.”
That last paragraph is nothing I haven't told you about before. I've posted this chart many times:
In Israel, many people think we're immune from this sort of thing. We're not. First of all, an increasing number of Israeli Jewish girls are running off with, or being kidnapped by Arabs. A couple of weeks ago, I went to a fundraiser for a group that rescues Jewish girls - from across the religious spectrum - from Arab villages throughout Israel.
Second, if there is ever 'peace' with the Arabs, you can bet that intermarriage will increase if only because Arabs will have more access to Israeli society.
Third, secular Israelis often don't understand the difference between the different 'streams' of American Jews and can find themselves involved in relationships with those who are halachically (under Jewish law) non-Jewish.
The survey also portends “growing polarization” between religious and nonreligious Jews, said Laurence Kotler-Berkowitz, senior director of research and analysis at the Jewish Federations of North America.
The Jewish Federations has conducted major surveys of American Jews over many decades, but the last one in 2000 was mired in controversy over methodology. When the federations decided not to undertake another survey in 2010, Jane Eisner, editor in chief of The Jewish Daily Forward, urged the Pew researchers to jump in.
It was a multimillion-dollar effort to cull 3,475 respondents from a pool of 70,000. They were interviewed in English and Russian, on landlines and cellphones from Feb. 20 to June 13, 2013. The margin of error for the full sample is plus or minus three percentage points.
Ms. Eisner found the results “devastating” because, she said in an interview, “I thought there would be more American Jews who cared about religion.”
“This should serve as a wake-up call for all of us as Jews,” she said, “to think about what kind of community we’re going to be able to sustain if we have so much assimilation.”
So what is likely to sustain us for the coming generations is exactly what sustained us for the last 3,000 years: Torah, Torah and more Torah. Too bad Torah is under attack even in Israel today.
-
71% of non-orthodox intermarry. 25% don't believe in God -- personally I think this figure is low.
See new study of US Jews discussed in NY Nazi Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/01/us/poll-shows-major-shift-in-identity-of-us-jews.html?_r=0
-
I lamented this news last night in this thread:
The rate is actually 70% of non-Orthodox Jews...
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,71771.msg609657.html#msg609657
Oy Vey!
-
Isn't it better that the self hating Jews would assimilate into oblivion ? First of all we already know from our history that self hating Jews ALWAYS end up wiped out (one way or another). Second, if they remain Jews each generation would likely be more self hating and more harmful to the good Jews. Third and last thought, what can we do about that anyway ?
* maybe a moderator can fuse this thread with the one which Muman had opened ?
-
The survey uses a wide definition of who is a Jew, a much-debated topic.
Probably many of those people aren't even Jewish to begin with.
-
Isn't it better that the self hating Jews would assimilate into oblivion ? First of all we already know from our history that self hating Jews ALWAYS end up wiped out (one way or another). Second, if they remain Jews each generation would likely be more self hating and more harmful to the good Jews. Third and last thought, what can we do about that anyway ?
* maybe a moderator can fuse this thread with the one which Muman had opened ?
You are quick to call all born Jews who are not educated with a Jewish education as self-hating Jews. They are not all self-hating (because they don't even know what it means to be Jewish).
We cannot lose more Jews to assimilation. This is why Kiruv is so important in this day...
Baruch Hashem my parents at least gave my brother and I Bar Mitzvah and a rudimentary Jewish education. If not for this I doubt I would have made Teshuva in 2003 and who knows where I might have ended up...
Unfortunately I remember my parents telling me not to marry a Svartze but they were not as insistent to marry a Jew...
-
You are quick to call all born Jews who are not educated with a Jewish education as self-hating Jews. They are not all self-hating (because they don't even know what it means to be Jewish).
We cannot lose more Jews to assimilation. This is why Kiruv is so important in this day...
Baruch Hashem my parents at least gave my brother and I Bar Mitzvah and a rudimentary Jewish education. If not for this I doubt I would have made Teshuva in 2003 and who knows where I might have ended up...
Unfortunately I remember my parents telling me not to marry a Svartze but they were not as insistent to marry a Jew...
I don't call Jews self hating just because they intermarry and have gentile offspring, it's definitely leading to assimilation and decrease in our ranks. What I wanted to say is that I don't think it is bad that all the self hating Jews will assimilate and leave the Jewish people. Because when they hang around as Jews it's more likely to cause us more harm then good. They support the extermination of Israel and form organizations like J-street and peace now for this purpose. Is it wrong of me to want these self hating kapos to leave the Jewish people ?
-
To some extent, holocaust education has backfired on the jewish people.
The holocaust was so horrifying that many younger jews simply cannot process it with a healthy perspective, but rather they seek a way to escape from being jewish altogether. Also, they feel beleaguered by the relentless war against Israel by the left, which they feel is their natural political home. They don't want to convert (too much of a betrayal), so they intermarry, which is a passive/aggressive way of saying "adios" to their jewish identity.
There are other causes of jewish alienation, but I have always felt the traumatic impact of the holocaust on subsequent generations of jews is underestimated.
"
-
The survey uses a wide definition of who is a Jew, a much-debated topic.
Probably many of those people aren't even Jewish to begin with.
Agreed.
-
I don't call Jews self hating just because they intermarry and have gentile offspring, it's definitely leading to assimilation and decrease in our ranks. What I wanted to say is that I don't think it is bad that all the self hating Jews will assimilate and leave the Jewish people. Because when they hang around as Jews it's more likely to cause us more harm then good. They support the extermination of Israel and form organizations like J-street and peace now for this purpose. Is it wrong of me to want these self hating kapos to leave the Jewish people ?
Self-hating erev rav can and should assimilate to spare us the hardship. They certainly do more damage than our enemies. But my point is that we should not be quick to push away Jews who can actually be turned around and returned to the 'derech'...
-
It's hard to call a Jew self-hating who knows nothing about himself or Judaism. I can say that ignorance is deadly, and Jews who do not want to tell deformers that their athiest religion is a lie and that it has nothing to do with Judaism, and they are not following anything to do with Judaism, in order not to offend them, is like one who refuses to tell someone not to walk off a cliff because it might scare them, and they might be angry at you for pointing it out.
-
oh wow!!! Yikes....
To some extent, holocaust education has backfired on the jewish people.
The holocaust was so horrifying that many younger jews simply cannot process it with a healthy perspective, but rather they seek a way to escape from being jewish altogether. Also, they feel beleaguered by the relentless war against Israel by the left, which they feel is their natural political home. They don't want to convert (too much of a betrayal), so they intermarry, which is a passive/aggressive way of saying "adios" to their jewish identity.
There are other causes of jewish alienation, but I have always felt the traumatic impact of the holocaust on subsequent generations of jews is underestimated.
"
I actually agree with this sentiment.... what Hitler did was not just kill off half of the Jews... he made the majority of the surviving ones feel like they needed to be as 'progressive' and 'self-hating' as possible. The Jews reacted by saying.... we need to just be more tolerant and give peace a chance.... rather than saying..... 'We shoulda killed more Nazi's'.
-
oh wow!!! Yikes....
I actually agree with this sentiment.... what Hitler did was not just kill off half of the Jews... he made the majority of the surviving ones feel like they needed to be as 'progressive' and 'self-hating' as possible. The Jews reacted by saying.... we need to just be more tolerant and give peace a chance.... rather than saying..... 'We shoulda killed more Nazi's'.
I actually disagree with you on this. I think that the Holocaust has not been taught enough, or in the correct manner. It is the liberal leftists who make Holocaust studies an opportunity to foist multiculturalism on the masses. If the Holcaust was taught in the proper manner, that it was a calculated attack against the Jewish people and all that we stand for rather than just a case of 'racism' or 'hatred' then we would begin to see Jews who are proud of our heritage. They have hijacked the name of Anne Frank already, using it to teach multiculturalism in the classroom. Most kids walk away from it saying that the Jews were not the only ones who were harmed in this event (though 2/3 of European Jewry was destroyed). The lesson is that we just have to accept one another, rather than we must stand up against evil...
In the years after the war the Jewish people had a great re-birth of Torah and Mitzvot... It was those early years when the horror of the Holocaust was still on the minds of the Jewish people.
-
I actually disagree with you on this. I think that the Holocaust has not been taught enough, or in the correct manner. It is the liberal leftists who make Holocaust studies an opportunity to foist multiculturalism on the masses. If the Holcaust was taught in the proper manner, that it was a calculated attack against the Jewish people and all that we stand for rather than just a case of 'racism' or 'hatred' then we would begin to see Jews who are proud of our heritage. They have hijacked the name of Anne Frank already, using it to teach multiculturalism in the classroom. Most kids walk away from it saying that the Jews were not the only ones who were harmed in this event (though 2/3 of European Jewry was destroyed). The lesson is that we just have to accept one another, rather than we must stand up against evil...
In the years after the war the Jewish people had a great re-birth of Torah and Mitzvot... It was those early years when the horror of the Holocaust was still on the minds of the Jewish people.
I agree that, that is how a Jew should react... but I have seen the opposite in my family... and its not from a lack of knowledge of the past... not at all.... they are all extremely knowledgeable on history.... and the horrors of the holocaust.
But there is such a HUGE change from my grandparents generation to my parents generation..... its as if..... everyone in my family who grew up after WWII has become extreme hard-core leftists... and everyone who grew up before was conservative... I just had a family reunion and was reminded of this again... I am really a bit of a crypyo-conservative with my family... because if I say anything anti-islam or even worse (anti-obama) and they will all gang up on me.
-
I agree that, that is how a Jew should react... but I have seen the opposite in my family... and its not from a lack of knowledge of the past... not at all.... they are all extremely knowledgeable on history.... and the horrors of the holocaust.
But there is such a HUGE change from my grandparents generation to my parents generation..... its as if..... everyone in my family who grew up after WWII has become extreme hard-core leftists... and everyone who grew up before was conservative... I just had a family reunion and was reminded of this again... I am really a bit of a crypyo-conservative with my family... because if I say anything anti-islam or even worse (anti-obama) and they will all gang up on me.
I feel your pain Briann... But due to my families loss in 9/11 I can understand how my mother (who used to be such a lefty) has become much more conservative over the years. She is one of the most anti-Obama, anti-Islam people I know. Nothing we say about Obama here at JTF would surprise my mother. My father (OBM) was a lifelong conservative (voted Republican his entire life and defended Nixon till the end).
Baruch Hashem I can talk with my mother about politics and not become upset (as I used to when talking to her).
-
Intermarriage is a serious disaster. 70%+ is a big chunk. It's like mixing monotheism with idolatry beliefs.
-
To some extent, holocaust education has backfired on the jewish people.
The holocaust was so horrifying that many younger jews simply cannot process it with a healthy perspective, but rather they seek a way to escape from being jewish altogether. Also, they feel beleaguered by the relentless war against Israel by the left, which they feel is their natural political home. They don't want to convert (too much of a betrayal), so they intermarry, which is a passive/aggressive way of saying "adios" to their jewish identity.
There are other causes of jewish alienation, but I have always felt the traumatic impact of the holocaust on subsequent generations of jews is underestimated.
"
So how do you think young Jews should be taught about the Holocaust that is not being taught currently?
-
Those findings are shocking for the Jewish nation SMH. High rise in atheism has risen over the last 10 years even among muslims.
-
I agree that, that is how a Jew should react... but I have seen the opposite in my family... and its not from a lack of knowledge of the past... not at all.... they are all extremely knowledgeable on history.... and the horrors of the holocaust.
But there is such a HUGE change from my grandparents generation to my parents generation..... its as if..... everyone in my family who grew up after WWII has become extreme hard-core leftists... and everyone who grew up before was conservative... I just had a family reunion and was reminded of this again... I am really a bit of a crypyo-conservative with my family... because if I say anything anti-islam or even worse (anti-obama) and they will all gang up on me.
The Democrats have been able to brainwash relatively new Americans, by their bullshiite and their"we care about the little man"?
My Grandmother (a Czech American ) still thought the Democrats represented her, although, everything that comes out of her mouth is conservative.
-
I'm in the same boat as you Muman, as just barely escaped the deadly clutches of ignorance and lies myself, before a perfect storm as what I couldn't see as catastrophes without Judaism. If I ever get money, I'm going to bring Jews to Israel and pay for Torah study as a hobby.
-
So how do you think young Jews should be taught about the Holocaust that is not being taught currently?
I don't know exactly. I don't have the answers.
But I liked Rabbi Kahane's slogan: Every Jew a 22. So, Jewish education, at minimum, should include serious instruction in martial arts and gun use. But I realize this will never happen.
Anyway, the damage was done with the murder of 6 million and the non response from american jews who could have done SOMETHING to try to stop it. The cowardly, disgraceful, and evil jewish non response to the holocaust, as it was taking place, is something young jews have been profoundly confused and embarrassed by. So much so that they no longer want to be jewish, and they see a way out through intermarriage, which is less of an outright betrayal than conversion to christianity. The holocaust is like a nightmare from which you won't awake and there are no good answers.
-
I am really concerned about the many new "half jews" who will be coming down the pike. I use the term "half jews" as a convenient legal fiction for the children resulting from the intermarriages. I realize there are no half jews under jewish law, ok? Please don't yell at me. LOL.
Anyway, I fear many of the half jews will emerge as potent enemies of Israel and the jewish people. For example, in attempts to prove they are not really jewish, some half jews may be particularly aggressive, nasty advocates against reasonable Israeli security measures if not outright nazis.
On the other hand, some of these half jews may become righteous jews or gentiles. Should there not be some sort of outreach to these half jews? I don't know; it's getting complicated.
-
I don't know exactly. I don't have the answers.
But I liked Rabbi Kahane's slogan: Every Jew a 22. So, Jewish education, at minimum, should include serious instruction in martial arts and gun use. But I realize this will never happen.
Anyway, the damage was done with the murder of 6 million and the non response from american jews who could have done SOMETHING to try to stop it. The cowardly, disgraceful, and evil jewish non response to the holocaust, as it was taking place, is something young jews have been profoundly confused and embarrassed by. So much so that they no longer want to be jewish, and they see a way out through intermarriage, which is less of an outright betrayal than conversion to christianity. The holocaust is like a nightmare from which you won't awake and there are no good answers.
One day G-d willing, we will get weapons training in school, as in Amercian schools once upon a time.
At any rate, there was a response from people like Jabotinsky, so it's not the evil Jewish response, it's a bunch of liberals who happened to be born Jews and typically identify with atheism over their religion. Some people were also smart and got out. I really also could not conceive someone looking to get out of Judaism by intermarrying. They don't get out anyways, so they'd be doing it for their kids, not themselves, and if someone gets themselves to the point where they're actually considering intermarriage, and don't necessarily have a girlfriend, but are think that it's a way to leave Judiasm are almost 100% likely, if they exist, to have already stopped practicing Judaism. I think the comparison between serving other "G-ds" and making your children serve other "G-ds" would be a pretty depressing thing to think about, so if that came into his mind to when he was making a decision, this would be 1 Jew doing once or twice in history, who is also very ignorant, so it would most likely have been a Jew that was trying to get away from the people around him or her, and didn't have money just to leave themselves.
And we did awake from the holocaust and beat the Arabs, and there are plenty of answers that you may or may not want to hear, it's just that the traitors running the establishment in Israel seem to want it back.
-
As a non-Jew i cannot say to much on this subject, but i think we as a people are in danger. I think danger is everywhere, and we as a people should fight the thread of Islam. Myself i'am a Protestant, but i don't realy consern about how many are using the strict rules and how many are doing there thing on there own modern way. I believe people should believe in there God, and vote for the right kind of political party's and speak out the truth. I see your point, and i think more and more people (Jews and Christians) are losing faith and forget there own roots and traditions.
-
I am really concerned about the many new "half jews" who will be coming down the pike. I use the term "half jews" as a convenient legal fiction for the children resulting from the intermarriages. I realize there are no half jews under jewish law, ok? Please don't yell at me. LOL.
Anyway, I fear many of the half jews will emerge as potent enemies of Israel and the jewish people. For example, in attempts to prove they are not really jewish, some half jews may be particularly aggressive, nasty advocates against reasonable Israeli security measures if not outright nazis.
On the other hand, some of these half jews may become righteous jews or gentiles. Should there not be some sort of outreach to these half jews? I don't know; it's getting complicated.
There you have some good points.
-
Some Reform Jews are very vocal Israel supporters. Also some of these 'half-Jews' as you call them also are very supportive of Israel. In my community the 'progressive' synagogue which 'Bar Mitzvahs' non-Jews recently had a very public Pro-Israel day which made the local papers.
I am concerned about the continuity of the Torah True Jewish people.
I was so upset about this I spoke with my main Chabad Rabbi about it. He said that those who assimilate out will be lost, but the only true remaining Jewish people will be those who are Orthodox today. My Rabbi already has five kids and they expect more. Most Chabad families have eight to ten Jewish children who are brought up with Jewish principles and a Zionist outlook. I was given a bit of hope thinking about the future generation of Chabad children...
-
Muman how would you react if you had a child who married out Judaism ?
-
Muman how would you react if you had a child who married out Judaism ?
This is very difficult for me...
My entire family has married out... I too married a non-Jew (but divorced her shortly before I did my 'teshuva' in 2003). I am 48 (going on 49) and do not have children but hope (by virtue of a miracle) to some day have a son. My brother (who died on 9/11), unfortunately, did have two children with his non-Jewish wife. I have NEVER spoken to my brothers children (its been 12 years) and have effectively disowned them. My mother has claimed that there is a possibility that my brothers wife may have Jewish ancestry, and the boy and girl are being taught about their Jewish heritage... But I still hope that some day they come to me and seek to actually convert to Judaism (their mother is teaching them Irish Catholicism)... I am sure my brother, if he were alive, would eventually return to his Jewish roots but there is no chance of that today.
I would be very, very deeply hurt if I had children today and they rejected their heritage.
-
^" I have NEVER spoken to my brothers children (its been 12 years) and have effectively disowned them."
Maybe you should call them...
-
^" I have NEVER spoken to my brothers children (its been 12 years) and have effectively disowned them."
Maybe you should call them...
I am afraid I may say something which upset them. My mother celebrated Chanukah with them last year, unfortunately they celebrated it on the wrong date. They had a Pesach Seder but also didn't do it Halachically correctly. I suppose I am also a bit saddened about the entire thing, and that I also married out... I must believe that Hashem had a reason to cause me to do Teshuva at that point (2003) in my life. I had gone through my '3 tragedies'.... Losing my brother in 9/11, losing my job which moved me to NorCal, and then a year later divorce from my wife due to very difficult events.
Anyway, I thank you for your advice.
-
This is very difficult for me...
My entire family has married out... I too married a non-Jew (but divorced her shortly before I did my 'teshuva' in 2003). I am 48 (going on 49) and do not have children but hope (by virtue of a miracle) to some day have a son. My brother (who died on 9/11), unfortunately, did have two children with his non-Jewish wife. I have NEVER spoken to my brothers children (its been 12 years) and have effectively disowned them. My mother has claimed that there is a possibility that my brothers wife may have Jewish ancestry, and the boy and girl are being taught about their Jewish heritage... But I still hope that some day they come to me and seek to actually convert to Judaism (their mother is teaching them Irish Catholicism)... I am sure my brother, if he were alive, would eventually return to his Jewish roots but there is no chance of that today.
I would be very, very deeply hurt if I had children today and they rejected their heritage.
Not to be insulting but if I were your brothers kids I would not be concerned about you disowning them because they should be the one disowning you... Instead of holding out an olive branch with some hope that they may one day gain interest in their Jewish roots you do the very thing that might push them away forever... It's not their fault that their father decided to marry a Gentile... Hopefully you have some other grievances to go along with the fact that they were born of mix faith relationship... Honestly I believe you might have lost an opportunity to make a big difference in their lives after your brothers passing.
-
Not to be insulting but if I were your brothers kids I would not be concerned about you disowning them because they should be the one disowning you... Instead of holding out an olive branch with some hope that they may one day gain interest in their Jewish roots you do the very thing that might push them away forever... It's not their fault that their father decided to marry a Gentile... Hopefully you have some other grievances to go along with the fact that they were born of mix faith relationship... Honestly I believe you might have lost an opportunity to make a big difference in their lives after your brothers passing.
Honestly this is a struggle I deal with every day. The primary issue was that my brother and I, while close in our youths, had issues when we were grown. My brother was always the 'good guy' and I was the older brother who would get into trouble. My brothers 'goody-two-shoes' image really bothered me, and in some ways it bothers me to this day.
I suppose I could reach out and show them the reason it is important to maintain Jewish identity. But inside me there is also jealousy for my brother, his success (which eclipses any success I may have made) and his wealth, and his large number of friends (I have been mostly a loner/geek). He had two children, while I have none (due to my own problems in my previous marriage)...
Anyway, I hope that this will be resolved some day... I really feel bad now because I embrace my Jewish identity, am proud of it, and yet I don't have any children to pass this on to. This is one reason I try to teach others about Judaism because the sages have said that a teacher is like a parent, in that the good things he teaches will grow into future generations..
-
I am afraid I may say something which upset them. My mother celebrated Chanukah with them last year, unfortunately they celebrated it on the wrong date. They had a Pesach Seder but also didn't do it Halachically correctly. I suppose I am also a bit saddened about the entire thing, and that I also married out... I must believe that Hashem had a reason to cause me to do Teshuva at that point (2003) in my life. I had gone through my '3 tragedies'.... Losing my brother in 9/11, losing my job which moved me to NorCal, and then a year later divorce from my wife due to very difficult events.
Anyway, I thank you for your advice.
I'm going to bust your balls on this. You lost your brother, they lost their dad and their uncle. It sounds like to me that they are interested in Judaism. If you don't get over you, you may loose two more future Jews and your fathers bloodline, and so does HaShem...
-
A lot of these polls are probably counting a lot of people that aren't Jewish, as others in this thread pointed out already. There are a surprising amount of people who would define themselves as Jewish who aren't Jewish according to the actual Jewish religion. The thing is when someone does a poll then they usually will take someone's word for it if they say they are Jewish.
There was a family that used to live across the street from me. I think the father of the family might have actually been Jewish, but his non-Jewish wife and daughter claimed that they were Jewish because the woman had married him (but not actually gone through an orthodox conversion), and the daughter had been raised to think of herself as Jewish even though her mother was not Jewish.
There are also a lot of "converts" into the reform movement that consider themselves to be Jewish but are not.
-
I'm going to bust your balls on this. You lost your brother, they lost their dad and their uncle. It sounds like to me that they are interested in Judaism. If you don't get over you, you may loose two more future Jews and your fathers bloodline, and so does HaShem...
I will try to consider this... It is not something I can just pick up and do... Very deep issues...
-
A lot of these polls are probably counting a lot of people that aren't Jewish, as others in this thread pointed out already. There are a surprising amount of people who would define themselves as Jewish who aren't Jewish according to the actual Jewish religion. The thing is when someone does a poll then they usually will take someone's word for it if they say they are Jewish.
There was a family that used to live across the street from me. I think the father of the family might have actually been Jewish, but his non-Jewish wife and daughter claimed that they were Jewish because the woman had married him (but not actually gone through an orthodox conversion), and the daughter had been raised to think of herself as Jewish even though her mother was not Jewish.
There are also a lot of "converts" into the reform movement that consider themselves to be Jewish but are not.
yes, the reform and 'progressive' movements have really messed up the question of 'who is a Jew'...
My Rabbi counts them as lost already. Within a generation they will no longer associate with the Jewish people.