JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: muman613 on May 22, 2014, 04:30:01 AM
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I just saw this news and had to scream out...
One of my favorite Rabbis, who I post all the time in the Torah section, Rabbi Yiszak Ginsburg is being harassed by the Israeli authorities. The church apparently wants him to be arrested because he it the Rabbi of the 'settlement' of Yitzar which has been associated with so-called 'price tag' attacks.
Church Official: Arrest Yitzhar Yeshiva Head Before Pope's Visit
If Israel is serious about eliminating 'price tag' attacks, mass arrests - including of rabbis - are needed, a top church official said
By Yosef Berger
First Publish: 5/22/2014, 8:33 AM
Israel needs to arrest “many more people” - including a prominent Rabbi - in advance of the visit of Pope Francis over the weekend to show that it is serious about fighting anti-Christian discrimination, the the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, Fouad Twal, said. “If Israel is the democracy it claims to be, then it should do something to stop” the “terrorist youths” accused of “price tag” attacks.
According to the Vatican Insider web site, a number of the claimed 399 price tag attacks in 2013 were directed at Christian Arabs and churches. Allowing the perpetrators of these attacks to remain at large during the Pope's visit was insulting to the church, and dangerous, said Twal.
Specifically, he said, the government should detain Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh of Yitzhar, whom he said was the “ringleader” of the youths accused of these attacks. Citing no evidence, Twal said that youths associated with Rabbi Ginsburgh were behind attacks such as a message spray-painted in Hebrew on the wall of St George's, a Romanian Orthodox church near a hareidi neighborhood. The graffiti, referring to rumors of Israel's intention to allow Catholics more authority over the site of King David's Tomb, read “price tag... King David for the Jews... Jesus is garbage.”
Rabbi Ginsburgh is the president of the Od Yosef Chai Yeshiva. Od Yosef Chai Yeshiva was once located in the Joseph's Tomb complex, but has moved to the Shomron community of Yitzhar following Israel's decision to abandon the holy site.
In the past, Rabbi Ginsburgh has been placed in administrative detention by Israel for his sometimes controversial views on responding to Arab terrorism and his outspoken opposition to any and all land compromises with the Arabs. Rabbi Ginsburgh is a follower of the teachings of the late Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, the Lubavitcher Rebbe, and lectures throughout Israel and the world. He is a renowned authority on Kabala and Chassidut and stands at the helm of the Gal Einai Institute .
"Price tag" is a euphemism for politically-motivated vandalism and criminal damage usually attributed to Jewish extremists, carried out either in revenge for Arab terrorist attacks, or in protest of Israeli government policies such as the destruction of Jewish homes in Judea and Samaria. Hundreds of Jewish youths have been arrested in connection with these attacks, but the vast majority have not been charged due to a lack of evidence.
In a statement last week, the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem demanded action over the attacks. “The bishops are very concerned about the lack of security and lack of responsiveness from the political sector, and fear an escalation of violence," the group said in the statement, noting there had been "no gesture of solidarity or condemnation" from Israel's political establishment. "We feel neither safe nor protected." Church leaders in Israel plan to make security and political officials “aware of their responsibilities,” according to the statement.
Israel's top police officer on Sunday vowed to step up police presence nationwide ahead of Pope Francis's upcoming visit, according to AFP. "You cannot exaggerate the importance of this visit on both a national and an international level," Police Commissioner Yohanan Danino told reporters in Jerusalem.
The two-day papal visit to Israel, which begins on May 25, was being treated by police with the same level of importance as that of US President Barack Obama, with an extra 8,000 officers to be deployed throughout Jerusalem, he said.
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Where are all the bleeding heart liberals who claim they care about free speech?
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Arrest anyone who complies with the Esavites.
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Chutzpa is no longer Jewish prerogative. Looks like Vatican has it in spades.
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Once he get's here. IF he will be going around with the Chief Rabbis or anyone else they should publicly throw him questions about church and the beliefs. Put him on the spot because they don't have the answers.
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Once he get's here. IF he will be going around with the Chief Rabbis or anyone else they should publicly throw him questions about church and the beliefs. Put him on the spot because they don't have the answers.
You know alot a people in America believe in this....
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Can we stop with this anti-Christian bias already? It is the Muslims we must fight, not the Christians or Catholics. Why wouldn't they call Mohammad garbage? Watching Jews and Christians fighting each other is exactly what all the Muslims want so they would dominate the world while non-Muslims are slaughtering each other. Let's all unite and kick Muslims out of this planet.
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Can we stop with this anti-Christian bias already? It is the Muslims we must fight, not the Christians or Catholics. Why wouldn't they call Mohammad garbage? Watching Jews and Christians fighting each other is exactly what all the Muslims want so they would dominate the world while non-Muslims are slaughtering each other. Let's all unite and kick Muslims out of this planet.
Where are the Catholics and Christians who will tell this piece of drek pope where to stick it? Indeed the muslims are the ones trying to kill us physically, but the others are trying to kill us spiritually... Our sages tell us which is worse...
Muslims are slaughtering each other without help from us...
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Can we stop with this anti-Christian bias already? It is the Muslims we must fight, not the Christians or Catholics. Why wouldn't they call Mohammad garbage? Watching Jews and Christians fighting each other is exactly what all the Muslims want so they would dominate the world while non-Muslims are slaughtering each other. Let's all unite and kick Muslims out of this planet.
You make great sense. But it fall on deaf ears here.
It's a shame.
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You make great sense. But it fall on deaf ears here.
It's a shame.
Do you speak out at your congregation against this kind of abuse against the Jewish people or do you just accept it as part of your religion that the Jews should be pushed around by the Vatican? You are a member of this church so you should feel a particular responsibility to speak out against this injustice.
Do you think it is right for the Church to tell Israel to arrest Rabbis? By staying quiet you silently approve of what your church is doing.
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Do you speak out at your congregation against this kind of abuse against the Jewish people or do you just accept it as part of your religion that the Jews should be pushed around by the Vatican? You are a member of this church so you should feel a particular responsibility to speak out against this injustice.
Do you think it is right for the Church to tell Israel to arrest Rabbis? By staying quiet you silently approve of what your church is doing.
The church can ask and demand anything it likes just as anyone in the world can over any issue... Why does the government in Israel comply? I hate to put it this way but most Catholics are just not that interested in what's shaking over in Israel... Why does the government of Israel allow such a disruptive and demanding presence to reside in their country? The sad part of the picture is when money is put ahead of principal this sort of situation develops... Like Nancy Regan said "Just say NO"
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The church can ask and demand anything it likes just as anyone in the world can over any issue... Why does the government in Israel comply? I hate to put it this way but most Catholics are just not that interested in what's shaking over in Israel... Why does the government of Israel allow such a disruptive and demanding presence to reside in their country? The sad part of the picture is when money is put ahead of principal this sort of situation develops... Like Nancy Regan said "Just say NO"
As you said in a post previously.... The church represents Billions and Billions of people. The state of Israel represents 6Million Jews... In the wild jungle the larger the animal is, the more respect it gets...
If Israel were to trust in Hashem as it should we could tell your church to go stick it in their ears... And that day will come soon, G-d willing.
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בס''ד
Again? When is this going to stop?
Fuad Twal is an Arab Jew-hater who supports the Muslim terrorists. He is also anti-American. If you wanted to attack this evil piece of garbage, I would agree completely.
But what is gained by attacking the Christian faith in general? This vulgar attack is beyond stupid. Does Fuad Twal represent the tens of millions of evangelical Christians who are more pro-Israel than most of the Jews? Do you want to insult the religious beliefs of Christian Zionists as well?
Muman, I apologized last night for blaming you for a flaming war which you did not start or participate in. But now you start attacking bullcat for no reason. You start blaming her for what this Arab leftist said. Do you think she agrees with anti-American Arab leftists who side with Muslim terrorists?
Tag Mehir Tzedek and Muman, when you make posts like this, you undermine and hurt this movement. Shlomo just made two great English videos this week and our Hebrew movement is growing quickly. So we should be seeing growth in the English movement as well. This was supposed to be the week when that growth started thanks to the new videos. Instead we are bogged down with this again. Thanks a lot.
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Damn it! You all just see what happened? One person is disrespectful, and the whole forum go's up in flames. The trolls we get are masters of this too. It wouldn't of been a problem if the nasty comment wasn't made... And some newcomer may of seen the truth in this Pope from JTF, but now just sees a bunch of Christian and Jew fighting. Who is the new comer going to side with if he is a Christian? And he just learned that Jew's really are d*cks. I don't know how many freaking times Chaim has to warn us!
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בס''ד
Again? When is this going to stop?
Fuad Twal is an Arab Jew-hater who supports the Muslim terrorists. He is also anti-American. If you wanted to attack this evil piece of garbage, I would agree completely.
But what is gained by attacking the Christian faith in general? This vulgar attack is beyond stupid. Does Fuad Twal represent the tens of millions of evangelical Christians who are more pro-Israel than most of the Jews? Do you want to insult the religious beliefs of Christian Zionists as well?
Muman, I apologized last night for blaming you for a flaming war which you did not start or participate in. But now you start attacking bullcat for no reason. You start blaming her for what this Arab leftist said. Do you think she agrees with anti-American Arab leftists who side with Muslim terrorists?
Tag Mehir Tzedek and Muman, when you make posts like this, you undermine and hurt this movement. Shlomo just made two great English videos this week and our Hebrew movement is growing quickly. So we should be seeing growth in the English movement as well. This was supposed to be the week when that growth started thanks to the new videos. Instead we are bogged down with this again. Thanks a lot.
How is it an attack. I asked her if she speaks up to her church to stop this...
Is that considered an attack today? Am I a terrorist for this?
What I said was not an attack nor blaming her. But I am interested if our non-Jewish friends are truly supporting our cause in their church and speaking against this kind of abuse.
If it seemed like an attack I apologize... I clearly want to know how we can change the direction that the church is going in against Israel and our rabbis.
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This week will be particularly sensitive since the pope is visiting the Jewish state.
The news of the church's interest in making King Davids Tomb a church has done a lot to upset a lot of Jews...
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Chaim,
This news that the Rabbi of Yitzar is being harassed because of the popes visit is especially aggravating as I support Rabbi Ginsburg 100%... The pope is coming to Israel to push us around, to implore the Israeli leaders to give land to the arabs and to give up the tomb of King David... Do you think we should all just pretend nothing is happening here.
I want JTF's Catholic members to speak up about this in their congregations. They will do the Jewish state a good deal of PR good by doing so. If they are quiet they are implicitly supporting the pro-palestinian view that the Jews stole the land. The pope has been supporting the 1967 suicide borders.
If more Catholics who support Israel were to speak up, to write their pastors, their church leaders, then maybe we can see some turn around in the opinion of the church.
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Everyone I know for the most part is a Trinitarian Christian,(who believe it is one G-d) if I sent them to JTF and they saw a comment like Tag made they wouldn't come back, or the one LKZ made this morning (if they knew what it meant). The only reason I don't believe in the Trinity is because of old books I was given and my Grandma, and I alway just thought only there was G-d, and we really didn't go to Church.
The Catholics that I know are very pro Israel, and don't seem to care about the Pope, and are against the things he has said and is doing. ..
Does making fun of the Trinity and calling the Pope a fag help? Nope!
Judah isn't the only ones still alive! There are others... Are we the Messiah to say who is who?
Hell, Bullcat's Grandmothers may of been forced to convert to Catholicism. She could be a Jew and you're pushing her away.
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How is it an attack. I asked her if she speaks up to her church to stop this...
Is that considered an attack today? Am I a terrorist for this?
What I said was not an attack nor blaming her. But I am interested if our non-Jewish friends are truly supporting our cause in their church and speaking against this kind of abuse.
If it seemed like an attack I apologize... I clearly want to know how we can change the direction that the church is going in against Israel and our rabbis.
Muman, if you are posting a story hoping to inform and you would like it to have impact on me ( and any other Catholic that might read your thread)...there shouldn't be any snide comments attached to it. Do you think I don't want you to bring important issues to the attention of forum members?
Where are the Catholics and Christians who will tell this piece of drek pope where to stick it? Indeed the muslims are the ones trying to kill us physically, but the others are trying to kill us spiritually... Our sages tell us which is worse...
Muslims are slaughtering each other without help from us...
There are no words to describe the damage you have done here. I don't buy the I was only...
You fool no one but yourself.
I am going to pray for you, Muman.
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How is it an attack. I asked her if she speaks up to her church to stop this...
Is that considered an attack today? Am I a terrorist for this?
What I said was not an attack nor blaming her. But I am interested if our non-Jewish friends are truly supporting our cause in their church and speaking against this kind of abuse.
If it seemed like an attack I apologize... I clearly want to know how we can change the direction that the church is going in against Israel and our rabbis.
בס''ד
Here is what you said to bullcat, who for years has been a loyal JTF member:
Do you speak out at your congregation against this kind of abuse against the Jewish people or do you just accept it as part of your religion that the Jews should be pushed around by the Vatican? You are a member of this church so you should feel a particular responsibility to speak out against this injustice.
Do you think it is right for the Church to tell Israel to arrest Rabbis? By staying quiet you silently approve of what your church is doing.
This is how you speak to someone who was worked with us for years? You ask her accusatory questions and demand that she give you an accounting of what she does in her church? The fact that she joined JTF and stayed with us through thick and thin is not good enough? She's an active and leading member of the most staunchly pro-Israel movement that exists. No movement is more uncompromisingly pro-Israel than JTF. Bullcat has tried to help us for years.
This is completely unacceptable.
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BC3,
That post was not in reply to what you wrote, it was a reply to YS2JOBBIK...
And it is an honest question which has not been answered... Do you guys really support Israel or do you just post here because you like to and ignore the question of Israel?
You can pray if you like, we will be praying and acting to save the Jewish state.
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Everyone I know for the most part is a Trinitarian Christian,(who believe it is one G-d) if I sent them to JTF and they saw a comment like Tag made they wouldn't come back, or the one LKZ made this morning (if they knew what it meant). The only reason I don't believe in the Trinity is because of old books I was given and my Grandma, and I alway just thought only there was G-d, and we really didn't go to Church.
The Catholics that I know are very pro Israel, and don't seem to care about the Pope, and are against the things he has said and is doing. ..
Does making fun of the Trinity and calling the Pope a fag help? Nope!
Judah isn't the only ones still alive! There are others... Are we the Messiah to say who is who?
Hell, Bullcat's Grandmothers may of been forced to convert to Catholicism. She could be a Jew and you're pushing her away.
I am Catholic.
But I was raised to respect the Jewish people and the land of Israel.
That respect came from my parents and my church.
I do not want to convert anyone to Catholicism or have a Jewish person accept my Messiah. I never even thought about that. In fact...I wouldn't mention my religion here. But I will not be brow beaten over it either.
And people like Muman will not prove my Father wrong. He is the exception...not the rule.
I am sorry, Chaim. I do not mean to go on and on.
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BC3,
That post was not in reply to what you wrote, it was a reply to YS2JOBBIK...
And it is an honest question which has not been answered... Do you guys really support Israel or do you just post here because you like to and ignore the question of Israel?
You can pray if you like, we will be praying and acting to save the Jewish state.
:o
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Chaim,
I respect you and your opinion. I have worked to make my opinions agree with yours on many issues and researched issues of Jewish halacha concerning some issues I had questions about...
It is no secret that I do not respect the church. I do respect those people who are members of the church and apologize if my comments are hurtful. I know that I have posted things which could hurt others and I try to apologize for it.
I said it already in this thread. I would hope that Catholic and Christian members would actively participate in their community with the goal of spreading the zionist message. The Christian zionists should support Israel for the simple fact that we do allow worship from all the major faiths in their holy places. I do not condone making Davids Tomb a church though because it would infringe on the ability of the Jews to pray there.
There are Christians who are not fans of the pope too... They have posted things against the pope and they usually do not get the attention of those who always see my posts as insulting. This is not an excuse, but an observation.
Again I do not hate the church or those who go to it. Everyone has a right to express their religion (peacefully) and I do not want to impede them. My hope, of course, is that they worship the One G-d of Israel and no other...
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בס''ד
Fuad Twal is an Arab Jew-hater who supports the Muslim terrorists. He is also anti-American. If you wanted to attack this evil piece of garbage, I would agree completely.
But what is gained by attacking the Christian faith in general? This vulgar attack is beyond stupid. Does Fuad Twal represent the tens of millions of evangelical Christians who are more pro-Israel than most of the Jews? Do you want to insult the religious beliefs of Christian Zionists as well?
I attack Xtianity in general as I do all false religions and ideologies including fake ideologies that crept within the Jewish world, but not here though (about the Xtian part since you asked before). If I remember correctly all I said was that the Pope should be put on the spot and publicly challenged about Xtianity when he is in Israel. It will be a real Kiddush Hashem in order to fight and to defame the false religions. (not in an aggressive and cruel way though, but with serious questions and asking rational questions and to get rational answers which they don't have).
+ here I was talking about the Catholic Church and from what I know the Protestants and the Catholics hate each other and they oppose each other's religions and this doesn't have to do with the evangelicals.
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One thing to keep in mind here is that we're talking about some Christian Arab, and you know what I think of many of them.
These are people who identify socially, racially and politically with the Muslims. Their loyalty is towards their Muslim overlords. Wasn't there in fact one of these so-called Christian Arab priests on the Mavi Marmara flotilla?
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Lisa,
The Pope is calling for a 'Sovereign Palestine' when he talks with Israel's leaders. He is taking a position which will result in the destruction of Jewish lives and property. He is the leader of the RCC which is one of the largest denominations... How can he be excused from what is happening?
Please understand as I said above that there are many good Catholics who I think must make their voices heard. There is no such thing as a Palestine nation aside from the invention of the PLO in order to bring about the destruction of the Jewish state. History is clear about this and yet the Pope has bought into the lies.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/180928
Vatican Says Pope Will Demand 'Sovereign Palestine'
Vatican's Secretary of State says pope during visit will talk about 'Palestinian right to sovereign, independent homeland.'
By Ari Yashar
First Publish: 5/22/2014, 7:11 PM
The Vatican's Secretary of State made a dramatic revelation ahead of Pope Francis's visit to Israel next Sunday and Monday, declaring that the pope will talk about the "Palestinian people's right to have a homeland, sovereign and independent."
Cardinal Pietro Parolin holds a role in the Vatican City State, located in the Italian capital of Rome, equivalent to that of a prime minister. Speaking to Vatican television on Thursday, he said "we know that the pope is going to a particularly suffering land," reports AFP.
"I really hope that the fruit will be to help politicians and all people of good will take courageous decisions on the path to peace," Parolin stated.
When asked what the pope particularly intends to talk about during the visit, Parolin revealed he would talk about "on the one hand, Israel's right to exist in peace and security within internationally recognized boundaries."
On the other side, the pope would talk about "the Palestinian people's right to have a homeland, sovereign and independent, the right to move around freely, the right to live in dignity," according to Parolin.
In fact, the Vatican recognized the "State of Palestine" in 2012 amid the United Nations (UN) vote to confer "Palestine" non-member observer state status, a status until then only held by the Vatican.
Despite the pope's insistence that his visit is "religious not political," his decision to begin his trip from Jordan directly by helicopter with a stop in Palestinian Authority (PA) controlled Bethlehem has been greeted by Arab sources as a move to "recognize Palestine" and help "end the occupation."
Rabbi Sergio Bergman, a member of the Argentinian parliament and close friend of Pope Francis, reported in February that the pope intends to define himself as the "Che Guevera of the Palestinians" and support their "struggle and rights" during his visit.
It has been noted that the pope has been remarkably tight-lipped over the violent persecution of Christians in Bethlehem, instead choosing to condemn alleged Jewish "price tag" vandalism.
"Holy Father" asked to pressure Israel to let priests enter without IDF permission
On Thursday it was announced that 650 Christians from Gaza would be allowed to leave the Islamist-ruled enclave to travel to Judea and Samaria for the pope's visit.
However, 20 priests from the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem, which presides over Arab Catholic communities in Judea and Samaria, wrote the pope a letter on Thursday, complaining that they had not been allowed to enter Jerusalem without IDF permission.
"According to the State of Israel, the illegal occupier, we do not have the right to travel to Jerusalem without permission from the Israeli army," the Arab priests said in the letter.
In the letter, the priests claimed the Vatican had given them passes to enter Jerusalem which Israel hasn't stamped with visas. The IDF monitors passage over the 1949 Armistice lines.
"Jerusalem is becoming increasingly closed off to Christians from the West Bank," the letter added, calling for the pope to pressure Israel to submit on controlling passage on its own borders.
The letter concluded "can the Holy Father be in the Holy Land without saying anything about the reality of injustice against an entire people held prisoner on its own land?"
Controversy, both religious and political
Another point of contention about the pope's visit is the status of the David's Tomb Compound in Jerusalem. While numerous government officials - including Foreign Minister Avigdor Liberman and Israel's Sephardic Chief Rabbi - have denied control of the holy site will be transferred to the Vatican, reports have revealed a plan to indirectly transfer the site.
Rabbi Avraham Goldstein, the Rosh Yeshiva (dean) of the Diaspora Yeshiva located in the Compound, revealed what he said were much more underhand plans than a straightforward hand-over.
"According to the information we have...the state will be allowing the Church to conduct Mass on the upper floor; then according to Jewish law (halakha) Jews will not be able to pray downstairs (either), since on the upper floor there will be idol worship," the rabbi said.
Jewish law forbids benefiting from anything - including a structure or shelter - used for idol-worship. Catholic effigies and other rituals fall under the Jewish legal definition of idol worship, meaning that the establishment of a permanent Catholic place of prayer in the Compound would effectively prevent Jews from conducting their own services in the entire building.
A Catholic official confirmed the Vatican's intentions to put those very plans into effect, telling the Salt Lake Tribune on Tuesday that the Vatican wants "to hold two hours of [Christian] prayer every day in the early morning before visitors start to visit it."
Hashem, please make the pope too tired to make this trip... He has health problems which may interfere with his ability to pressure Israels leaders...