JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Yerusha on July 10, 2014, 06:32:45 AM
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When an English Jew goes good he's the salt of the earth eg Chaim's left hand-man Yosef ben Meir z"l.
When an English Jew goes bad he's the scum of the earth eg this reprobate Orthodox Rabbi Natan Levy, fasting with Muslims for Ramadan! Next thing is he'll be eating Christmas turkey with the Notzrim!
http://www.timesofisrael.com/the-rabbi-whos-fasting-on-ramadan/
(http://cdn.timesofisrael.com/uploads/2014/07/Natan-Bob-and-Usama-e1404826123210.jpg)
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what a phony disease.
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Levy is "interfaith vermin"!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-28148324
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76024000/jpg/_76024911_jewish_news_1.jpg)
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This kind of nonsence happens all the time specially in West-Europe. Jewish and Christian represantives visiting mosques and even drink and eat halal food with them.
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This is disgusting. This Rabbi should know that the only holidays are in The Torah.
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He figured it out! Now muslamic devil worshipers are going to love us! :o
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Rabbi Mizrachi says that mudrats are punished for practicing their religion of death, because even fasts and prayers make them and potentially others that their insanity is a way to G-d, so the question is; if they get punished for practicing their fake religion, what is the punishment of a Jew for doing so willingly?
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LKZ- I think that besides that added fact of 1) embracing another religion even if not fully but giving any validity is a problem, 2) Sucking up to others especially on top of that to a religion and 3) Hazal say that someone who fasts too much is a Rasha.
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How can Ramaden even be considered a fast when after their 12 or so hours of not eating or drinking they spend the rest of the night gorging and binging on food?? I am told many Muslims actually get ill on Ramaden not from fasting, but from eating too much. This is fasting?
Ramaden isn't even fasting, it's skipping breakfast.
I remember being in Africa a while back on Yom Kippur and I would not eat or drink. A Christian friend I had also joined me by not eating or drinking for 25 hours. However, the Muslim guys who knew me were utterly shocked. They told me they could never go to sleep on an empty stomach and couldn't understand how I could do it or why. I told them, if you guys do so much fasting, how is it so hard for you to go to sleep with an empty stomach? A few of them conceded that their fast was not a real fast and almost felt the whole concept of a "Ramaden Fast" was a bit foolish.
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It is possible according to halacha to be both a Monotheist and an idol worshiper at the same time.
Although there is an argument about this among rabbis, I believe Muslims are idol worshipers.
Ideally we should be eating in such a way to show we have total lack of respect and lack of fear of their belief system.
My source for this is from the following:
http://www.vilnagaon.org/book/messiah.htm (http://www.vilnagaon.org/book/messiah.htm)
What is the reason for the mitzva of Slaughtering the Pessach Sacrifice?
According to the viewpoint of Sefer Hachinuch [mitzva 5] “the root of this mitzva is in order that the Jews remember forever, the great miracles that the Holy One Blessed be He, did for them during the exodus from Egypt”.
Even though it seems obvious to me, there are those that find it difficult to understand how the slaughtering of the Pessach sacrifice helps us to remember the great miracles that Hashem did for the Jews during the exodus from Egypt. Therefore, I will quote from the midrash [Shmot Rabba 16:3] to clarify the connection, between the two concepts.
Another explanation,” Draw out [your hand] and take for yourselves lambs”, this pertains to what is written [ Psalms/Tehillim chapter 97 ] “let all the idol worshippers be embarrassed”. At the time that the Holy One Blessed be He, said to Moshe to slaughter the pessach, Moshe responded, Master of the Universe, this thing how can I do this ? Is it not known to you that the lambs are the gods of Egypt. For it was said [Exodus/Shmot chapter 8 ] “could we sacrifice the abomination of Egypt, before their eyes and they would not stone us?”
The Holy One Blessed be He, said to him, by your life! [the nation of] Israel does not go out from here until they sacrifice the gods of Egypt before their eyes that I make it known to them that their gods are of no significance.
And thus do we find, that he did. That in that very night he smote the first-born of the Egyptians and in that night Israel slaughtered their pessach lambs and ate. And the Egyptians were seeing their first-borns slain and their gods slaughtered and they were not able to do anything. For it was said [ Numbers/Bamidbar 33 ] “And Egypt was burying them which Hashem had smitten among them, every first-born and against their gods, Hashem executed judgments”. Namely, “let all the idol worshippers be embarrassed”.
So too, for the subject of eating the pessach sacrifice, it is written in Rashi on the phrase “in order that you remember the day of your going out from Egypt all the days of your life”, [ Deuteronomy/Dvarim 16:3 ] , “by means of eating the pessach and the matza”.
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This is one fake rabbi.
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It is possible according to halacha to be both a Monotheist and an idol worshiper at the same time.
Although there is an argument about this among rabbis, I believe Muslims are idol worshipers.
Ideally we should be eating in such a way to show we have total lack of respect and lack of fear of their belief system.
My source for this is from the following:
http://www.vilnagaon.org/book/messiah.htm (http://www.vilnagaon.org/book/messiah.htm)
I also believe they are idol worshipers with how much they twist the character of Hashem. How can one say that's the same G-d?
There also was a book I read onetime basically outlined how half of the Qur'an was written in the name of "Al-rachman" well later it changed in "Allah" there were two groups at that time who worshiped deities under these names. Islam was originally a polytheist religion that was redacted into a monotheist religion. The RamBam most likely did not realize this because he did not have access to the pagan sources of Islam that we have today.
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Whoopie doo...
Who cares about this? Don't people have better things to worry about?
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lol goodbye posts. Interfaith discussion has been proven bad now twice over, at least.
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I also believe they are idol worshipers with how much they twist the character of Hashem. How can one say that's the same G-d?
There also was a book I read onetime basically outlined how half of the Qur'an was written in the name of "Al-rachman" well later it changed in "Allah" there were two groups at that time who worshiped deities under these names. Islam was originally a polytheist religion that was redacted into a monotheist religion. The RamBam most likely did not realize this because he did not have access to the pagan sources of Islam that we have today.
The black pagan Ka'bah is one of the largest pagan idols in existence. Anybody who thinks Muslims are not idol worshippers or idolatorous really has their head up their behinds and knows little about Islam and its large variety of pagan practices. Muslims may have incorporated and adopted some Torah principles, but only to intermix them with their own heinous pagan mythology and ideologies. The pagan moon god al-iLah (Allah) is an ancient Arabian god who Mohammad help promote and was widely honored and venerated among various Arab tribes.
According to Arabian mythology and in some ways backed up by verses of Qur'an, that their pagan moon god of war actually dwells within the confines of the Ka'bah and the Ka'bah is a representation of their god in the physical form. The Ka'bah predates Islam as a pagan artifact of worship, although post-dates the life of Avraham, whom Mohammad falsely claimed built the Ka'bah.
This pagan idol is so revered that all Muslims around the world face the very direction of this mega-idol during their prayers. People seem to overlook the importance of this pagan relic, which they falsely claimed Avraham built. Also, the people do not realize the demands of a "True" Muslim to perform the Hajj where they will travel from the ends of the Earth to worship this black stone that houses the spirit or presence of their moon god.
Here is a picture of one of the largest idols in the world and is attributed to the Muslim faith:
(http://worldhistoryatyhs.wikispaces.com/file/view/Mecca.jpg/32308635/Mecca.jpg)
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The Kabah house the blackstone, which is most likely a meteorite. The blackstone had split into a couple of pieces during one of the muslim on muslim figthing over it so maybe it should now be call the black stones.
The black pagan Ka'bah is one of the largest pagan idols in existence. Anybody who thinks Muslims are not idol worshippers or idolatorous really has their head up their behinds and knows little about Islam and its large variety of pagan practices. Muslims may have incorporated and adopted some Torah principles, but only to intermix them with their own heinous pagan mythology and ideologies. The pagan moon god al-iLah (Allah) is an ancient Arabian god who Mohammad help promote and was widely honored and venerated among various Arab tribes.
According to Arabian mythology and in some ways backed up by verses of Qur'an, that their pagan moon god of war actually dwells within the confines of the Ka'bah and the Ka'bah is a representation of their god in the physical form. The Ka'bah predates Islam as a pagan artifact of worship, although post-dates the life of Avraham, whom Mohammad falsely claimed built the Ka'bah.
This pagan idol is so revered that all Muslims around the world face the very direction of this mega-idol during their prayers. People seem to overlook the importance of this pagan relic, which they falsely claimed Avraham built. Also, the people do not realize the demands of a "True" Muslim to perform the Hajj where they will travel from the ends of the Earth to worship this black stone that houses the spirit or presence of their moon god.
Here is a picture of one of the largest idols in the world and is attributed to the Muslim faith:
(http://worldhistoryatyhs.wikispaces.com/file/view/Mecca.jpg/32308635/Mecca.jpg)
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It is possible according to halacha to be both a Monotheist and an idol worshiper at the same time.
Absolutely. It says "AVODAH ZARA", people wrongly translate it to "idol worship". The term means "Foreign worship". Islam certainly is FOREIGN to the worship prescribed by the Torah thus it is AVODAH ZARA even if absolutely no idols are involved. Even worshipping or following an idea not prescribed by the Torah is Avodah Zara (such as worshipping an angel such as Michael or Gabriel).
What Islam does is twist the values and commandments of G-D, and it isn't prescribed by the Torah. + Muslims twist the Torah and make fun (like Ishmael- Metzahek) of the Torah and claim that anything they don't like was "made up by the Jews", etc. A condition to be a Bnai Noah is to accept the 7 laws (which they don't even follow to begin with as many of them murder and steal and aren't brought to justice which are all crimes) as given from G-D on Mt. Sinai.
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Why is this any worse than American Jews with Xmas trees?
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Why is this any worse than American Jews with Xmas trees?
christmas trees don't murder jews.
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This guy is about as much a rabbi as I am a Shiite imam.
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Why is this any worse than Peres going to 'pray' with the 'Pope' at the 'Vatican'?
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I don't think this is something to worry about...
The rabbi does not speak for the Jewish people. He is entitled to do as he pleases.
I attended a Rosh Hashana service one year at the local college and sat at the meal with a muslim couple. I was not very happy sitting at that table... But they were muslims, and they attended a Rosh Hashana service... Does that make them not muslim? Not any more than a rabbi attending a ramadan event is not Jewish...
This is absolutely nothing to be concerned about, unless you want to be concerned about nothing.
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christmas trees don't murder jews.
One almost murdered me...
And beside that, a Jew who has one is engaging in avodah zara, according to the Torah.
So it is a valid question why is a rabbi who attends a ramadan event worse than any Jew who has a xmas tree?
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I'll say it again--this guy is not a real rabbi. He is a joke.
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As far as I am concerned he is an imam.
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One almost murdered me...
And beside that, a Jew who has one is engaging in avodah zara, according to the Torah.
So it is a valid question why is a rabbi who attends a ramadan event worse than any Jew who has a xmas tree?
Okay...was it spiritually or physically? If it was physically, you have to tell the story. :::D
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The Kabah house the blackstone, which is most likely a meteorite. The blackstone had split into a couple of pieces during one of the muslim on muslim figthing over it so maybe it should now be call the black stones.
Look at all the Musrats of the world , some we know very well, coming to worship and honor the great black Stone.. Supposedly, the moon god's power is alive inside the stone..
(http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/ffximage/2007/12/03/pic3,0.jpg)
(http://redicecreations.com/ul_img/17157blackstonekiss.jpg)
(http://www.crystalinks.com/blackstonemecca2.jpg)
The pagan gods of pre-Islamic Arabia were worshiped in the form of rectangular stones or rocks. For example, the pagan deity 'Al-Lat', mentioned in Qur'an 53:19, and believed by pre-Islamic pagans to be one of the daughters of Allah, was once venerated as a cubic rock at Ta'if in Saudi Arabia. An edifice was built over the rock to mark it apart as a house of worship.
Al-lat stood in al-Ta'if, and was more recent than Manah. She was a cubic rock beside which a certain Jew used to prepare his barley porridge (sawiq). Her custody was in the hands of the banu-'Attab ibn-Malik of the Thayif, who had built an edifice over her. [...]She is the idol which God mentioned when He said, "Have you seen Al-lat and al-'Uzza (Surah 53:19)?[2]
Kitab Al-Asnam (The Book of Idols), p 14
"A principal sacred object in Arabian religion was the stone, either a rock outcropping or a large boulder, often a rectangular or irregular black basaltic stone… of numerous baetyls, the best known is the Black-stone of the Ka’aba at Mecca which became the central shrine object in Islam".[3]
Encyclopedia Britannica
There is no denying that the Black Stone was one among many stones and idols venerated at the Ka’aba by the pre-Islamic pagans. The Black Stone was kissed during pre-Islamic pagan worship. Though Muhammad threw out 360 other objects at the Ka’aba, he retained this Black Stone and continued the practice of kissing it. It is this same stone that the pre-Islamic pagans once kissed, that Muslims kiss today when visiting Mecca.
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Okay...was it spiritually or physically? If it was physically, you have to tell the story. :::D
I may have told it before...
One night driving home from work (with my 1st Mustang) I was driving in the fast last (carpool lane) and before I could do anything I saw a Christmas tree which I suppose had fallen off the back of a truck while attempting to dispose of it, and my car hit it causing me to swerve into the second land. Luckily for me there was nobody in that lane so I survived with a crumpled front bumper...
After that accident I took the car to the dealer and traded it in for a GT.
I don't like how people dispose of their trees. Often leaving them in the streets for weeks.
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I can care less about what muslims believe. It makes no difference. And as we know it is possible for those who do not believe in a religion to view practices in a biased light. We Jews have been accused of these very same things, that we pray to the wall (facing East), we make pilgrimages to Jerusalem, that Hashem has many names in the Torah (people think that means we worshipped many gods)... So I am not quick to judge what muslims do or do not believe.
I judge them based on their actions. And their actions stink. Until islam can peacefully coexist with the Jewish state, islam is my enemy. Not because of beliefs, but because they declared war on us.
(http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/02012008/1637789/JRL114_wa.jpg)
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בס''ד
Muslim Nazis have spent over 100 years trying to exterminate the Jewish people. These Islamic Amalekites have massacred tens of thousands of Jews and are sworn to carrying out another holocaust, G-d forbid.
This Semitic fungus who calls himself a "rabbi" wants to honor their monstrous religion and kiss the behinds of these Nazi mass murderers. He even adopts their insane Ramadan fast.
ימח שמו וזכרו שם רשעים ירקב (yimach shmo vezichro shem reshaim yirkav)
May the name and memory of this Semitic fungus be obliterated and may the name of the wicked rot.
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בס''ד
Muslim Nazis have spent over 100 years trying to exterminate the Jewish people. These Islamic Amalekites have massacred tens of thousands of Jews and are sworn to carrying out another holocaust, G-d forbid.
This Semitic fungus who calls himself a "rabbi" wants to honor their monstrous religion and kiss the behinds of these Nazi mass murderers. He even adopts their insane Ramadan fast.
ימח שמו וזכרו שם רשעים ירקב (yimach shmo vezichro shem reshaim yirkav)
May the name and memory of this Semitic fungus be obliterated and may the name of the wicked rot.
Wow, what a judgement for just having a fast with them... Is there a halachic basis for your cursing him? Do you even know the facts of the case other than just rumors.
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I just read the article and while I strongly disagree with his position (as I do believe it is useless for 'interfaith' services) I do not join in cursing him.
While I recognize everyones right to bless or curse as he or she pleases. I do not believe that this rises to the Y'S curse... But again, Chaim may have better reason than I know.
If any of those attending this event are terrorists or support terrorism against the Jewish state then I would join in cursing him. But at this time the article did not mention any terror or 'radical' ties. Again I do not think islam is a valid belief, and I think that muslims in general are pre-disposed to Jew hatred.... But it may be possible with so-called 'moderate' muslims in England, to appeal to them and change their opinions.
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I just read the article and while I strongly disagree with his position (as I do believe it is useless for 'interfaith' services) I do not join in cursing him.
While I recognize everyones right to bless or curse as he or she pleases. I do not believe that this rises to the Y'S curse... But again, Chaim may have better reason than I know.
If any of those attending this event are terrorists or support terrorism against the Jewish state then I would join in cursing him. But at this time the article did not mention any terror or 'radical' ties. Again I do not think islam is a valid belief, and I think that muslims in general are pre-disposed to Jew hatred.... But it may be possible with so-called 'moderate' muslims in England, to appeal to them and change their opinions.
בס''ד
Muman, how long have you been on this forum?
Islam is terrorism. The Koran is Mein Kampf.
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בס''ד
Muman, how long have you been on this forum?
Islam is terrorism. The Koran is Mein Kampf.
Chaim,
I hate islam as much as anyone here. You know my story... I have skin in the game (as they say)...
And while I do not believe 'moderate islam' has much of a future it may catch on (like deformed 'Judaism' caught on)... There may be some small change which could come about. Maybe I am foolish. But I think that there are some people caught up in islam who are on the fence and it may be possible to change their views slightly.
I do not suggest we take this as a sign things are getting better between Islam and Judaism. It will take much more from the muslims to show that they reject the teachings of the koran and eliminate those who believe the Jew hating teachings... Is it possible? I don't know...
But I am careful about cursing Jews... That is my issue.
PS: You know I join in cursing NK... I have rebuked them via email several times, and now have openly called for cursing of their sect.
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I can care less about what muslims believe. It makes no difference. And as we know it is possible for those who do not believe in a religion to view practices in a biased light. We Jews have been accused of these very same things, that we pray to the wall (facing East), we make pilgrimages to Jerusalem, that Hashem has many names in the Torah (people think that means we worshipped many gods)... So I am not quick to judge what muslims do or do not believe.
I judge them based on their actions. And their actions stink. Until islam can peacefully coexist with the Jewish state, islam is my enemy. Not because of beliefs, but because they declared war on us.
(http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/02012008/1637789/JRL114_wa.jpg)
Muman, there is a great difference between praying at the Kotel and praying at the Ka'bah.. First of all, the Kotel is the remants of the wall that surrounded the Beit Mikdash. Jews have never worshipped the Kotel or the Temple, but worshipped in the Temple. Also, the Kotel is part of the Jewish scriptures and sanctified by Hashem. The Ka'bah itself is a manifestation of ancient Arabian idol worship. Many Arabic deities themselves were worshiped in the form of stones. It was believed that their gods would dwell within these objects and there power would be exhibited through the worship of the objects. This type of practice predates Islam and is very ancient. Some claim that some of these type of practices are sourced from Sanskrit and may contain some influences from Ancient Hinduism, but intermixed with various Arabian mythologies. Also, since Muslims claim to be of an Abrahamic belief system, then pagan practices such as these are completely contrary to Abrahamic belief and prove that in fact, they are not an Abrahamic belief system, but rather a belief system based on Arabian mythology with some Abrahamic practices infused into them. There has been plenty of research proving that the Ka'bah was built much later than the time of Avraham and that there was no possible way Avraham could have built the house of the black stone, refuting Mohammad's bogus claims in the Qur'an/Hadiths.
What makes the Ka'bah and the black stone an idol is that the object itself is considered to be the manifestation of allah on earth. The Jews never worship the Temple or even the Ark of the Covenant, but rather honor G-d there as this is his holy sanctuary. No object, itself , has power or is worshipped, but rather the presence of Hashem dwelling in his most holy sanctuary.
Contrary, the Ka'bah is purely sourced from idol worship. The black stones were idols that were worshiped and considered to be the manifestation of their gods on earth. They actually believe that allah is inside the stone and that the stone is their god. That is why they make pilgrimage (Hajj) to the stone and pray towards the stone and come to kiss the stone. There is nothing biblical about it, but if you study arabian mythology you will see that these stones are in fact various arabian gods, where Al-iLah, the moon god of war, is considered the most honored and respected of all the gods of Arabia. It was through this pagan deity and this black stone that Mohammad was able to unite the warring Arabian tribes and promote the Islamic religion. BY uniting the tribes to worship this one black stone, he was able to conquer a good portion of the world and promote this religion throughout the world.
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Our forefathers were Idol worshippers too.. Abrahams father himself was the biggest idol maker in his country... Jews, even in the time of the prophets, relapsed to idolatry time and again...
I am not seeking to justify it, nor am I as informed as to islamic history or belief, but I am just saying it is difficult to know (from my perspective) if they are worshipping the stone or what it represents. As I posted previously, the nations of the world would sacrifice animals for pagan gods before Hashem commanded the Jews to only sacrifice to Hashem at the site of the Temple mount.
I know I have heard antisemites make these charges that Judaism is based on pagan religions...
References:
http://www.aish.com/tp/i/ky/48951511.html
From the Passover Haggadah:
"Originally our forefathers were idol worshippers, but now God has drawn us close to serve Him ... As the verse states, 'Your ancestors ... Terach, the father of Abraham and Nachor, worshipped other lords.'"
Relevant to us this week during the Parsha of Pinchas (who happens to also be Elijah the prophet)...
http://www.jewishamerica.com/ja/timeline/elijah.cfm
Reposted in the Torah section @ http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,76873.msg639110.html#msg639110
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I suppose my posts can be misunderstood as trying to justify islamic practice... That is not my intention, let me make that clear.
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As far as I am concerned he is an imam.
Is there a way to excommunicate these chazirs in Judaism?
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I may have told it before...
One night driving home from work (with my 1st Mustang) I was driving in the fast last (carpool lane) and before I could do anything I saw a Christmas tree which I suppose had fallen off the back of a truck while attempting to dispose of it, and my car hit it causing me to swerve into the second land. Luckily for me there was nobody in that lane so I survived with a crumpled front bumper...
After that accident I took the car to the dealer and traded it in for a GT.
I don't like how people dispose of their trees. Often leaving them in the streets for weeks.
Glad you're alive, but I'm sorry if this sounds insensitive, but this is rather funny. :::D
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Look at all the Musrats of the world , some we know very well, coming to worship and honor the great black Stone.. Supposedly, the moon god's power is alive inside the stone..
This is the Christian view, I will admit, but it is perfectly possible that the moon god's power (meaning that of satan or one of his demons) is indeed alive in the big black rock, empowering tens of millions of Koranrat jihadists to go forth and commit mass murder in his name.
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בס''ד
Muman, how long have you been on this forum?
Islam is terrorism. The Koran is Mein Kampf.
Don't you think you were a little harsh, Chaim? ;D :o :laugh:
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Is there a way to excommunicate these chazirs in Judaism?
No.. Without a universal deciding body there is no way to do this to any Jew... Judaism has such a concept but it is up to the individual sects to shun a party... I posted about this previously
http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/excom2.html
All this is no more. Jewish law has not had the judicial authority to punish people in any of the manners described above for nearly two thousand years13. Indeed, Jewish law has functioned for the past two millennia with only two real jurisdictional bases to punish violations: the "pursuer" jurisdictional grant, and excommunication or shunning14. The pursuer rationale (in hebrew: rodef) is the jurisdictional source of power for a Jewish court or community to intervene15 to prevent a murder16. That area of Jewish law is widely known and much written about17, and irrelevant to the formation of a sub-society in modern times, as the class of cases it governs are crimes that are nearly always also violations of basic general moral principles and thus subject, on a practical level to concurrent jurisdiction within secular society and its organs of government. Thus the normal response -- even in a very insular, fastidiously observant, Jewish society -- to a murder would be to call the police18.
And apparently what this rabbi did would not rise to the level of excommunication because it is not clear that he violated any law...
III. Shunning: For What Offenses
Having established the legal basis for shunning and excommunication, it is now necessary to determine for what one is shunned62. As noted above, the theoretical talmudic law is clear: "one who violates any prohibition may be shunned.63" That is, however, only the beginning of the rule. One of the commentators immediately notes that this is limited to a situation where the person has already been formally warned that his public conduct violated Jewish law64. So too, one may not excommunicate or shun a person who unintentionally violated Jewish law; indeed, one may not, Jewish law rules, shun a person who is aware of what the rule of law is, tries to observe it, and occasionally slips65.
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Glad you're alive, but I'm sorry if this sounds insensitive, but this is rather funny. :::D
Yeah, funny in a way... But now I hate Christmas trees left on the sidewalk...
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No.. Without a universal deciding body there is no way to do this to any Jew... Judaism has such a concept but it is up to the individual sects to shun a party... I posted about this previously
And apparently what this rabbi did would not rise to the level of excommunication because it is not clear that he violated any law...
Did you read EJA44's thread in which he discussed how he was excommunicated for opposing his BDS-supporting "rabbi" and his friend? This was Chabad, by the way, who are supposed to be above this lunacy.
So if Jews can be excommunicated for being right-wing, how can they not be excommunicated for fraternizing with the enemy?
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Did you read EJA44's thread in which he discussed how he was excommunicated for opposing his BDS-supporting "rabbi" and his friend? This was Chabad, by the way, who are supposed to be above this lunacy.
So if Jews can be excommunicated for being right-wing, how can they not be excommunicated for fraternizing with the enemy?
He was not excommunicated... I have spoken to him about this... He decided not to go back..
If he wanted to return he could. That is not excommunication. If you read the site I linked to it explains how the process of Jewish excommunication works. It involves a bit of halacha in order to achieve this. But as I said it is not possible today. If you don't like one Chabad you can go to another...
BTW, the rabbi you refer to is liked by EJA44. It is his decision to not participate in that community.
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The negro-worshiping chazir Hoeseph "American Pruneface" Lieberman (ysv) was excommunicated from his Orthodox shul because he supports "partial birth" baby murder.
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As I said, there is no such thing as excommunication today. Being un-invited to one shul does not constitute excommunication (which would mean the entire Jewish community shuns the individual). If a person is not welcome to one synagogue he can find another one...
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As I said, there is no such thing as excommunication today. Being un-invited to one shul does not constitute excommunication (which would mean the entire Jewish community shuns the individual). If a person is not welcome to one synagogue he can find another one...
The Pentateuch speaks of Jews being cut off from their people.
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The negro-worshiping chazir Hoeseph "American Pruneface" Lieberman (ysv) was excommunicated from his Orthodox shul because he supports "partial birth" baby murder.
Is there any proof of this? According to Ohr Samayach he is still a member of his Orthodox congregation...
http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/286/Q1/
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The Pentateuch speaks of Jews being cut off from their people.
That is spiritual excisement, not excommunication... Different ideas.
Karet is not excommunication.
http://www.chabad.org/search/keyword_cdo/kid/10949/jewish/Karet.htm
Karet: (lit. “excision”); the cutting of the soul, causing premature death on the earthly plane and a severing of the soul’s connection with G-d on the spiritual plane
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1340046/jewish/Can-Someone-Be-Cut-Off-From-G-d.htm
The Torah states Karet (Being cut off) happens if a Jew does not circumcise his son, or he does not partake of the Passover offering.
http://www.torah.org/advanced/mikra/5757/br/dt.58.1.03.html
This is My covenant that you shall keep...circumcise all of your males. The male that does not circumcise his flesh, that soul shall be cut off from its nation... (B'resheet 17:10,14).
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In any case Jewish law requires a person to be warned at least once before he can be punished...
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For some reference here are the Halachas as brought down by Rambam in Mishneh Torah, Sefer Kedusha...
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/960647/jewish/Issurei-Biah-Chapter-One.htm
Halacha 1
When a person voluntarily engages in sexual relations with one of the arayot1 mentioned in the Torah, he is liable for kerait,2 as [Leviticus 18:29] states: "Whenever anyone performs any of these abominations, the souls will be cut off...." [The plural is used, referring to] the man and the woman.3If they transgressed unknowingly, they are liable to bring a fixed4 sin offering. There are some arayot with whom relations are punishable by execution5 in addition to kerait which is applicable in all cases.6
Halacha 2
With regard to the arayot that are punishable by execution by the court. If there were witnesses, they delivered a warning,7 and the transgressors did not cease their actions, they are executed through the means prescribed for them.
Halacha 3
Even if a transgressor was a Torah scholar neither execution or lashes is administered unless a warning was given. For [the obligation for] a warning was instituted universally only to make a distinction between a person who transgresses inadvertently and one who transgresses intentionally.8
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Halacha 7
All of the other arayot are punishable by kerait alone and are not punishable by execution by the court. Therefore if there were witnesses and a warning was administered, the court punishes them with lashes, for all those who are obligated for kerait are lashed.
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Let me add again what I am trying to say here...
If he were to be tried by a Jewish court he would have to have been warned that his behavior was a transgression before doing it. I have yet to see the halachic decision that he is guilty of a crime deserving of what some are calling for here. Even though I disagree I do not assert that he is guiltless, just that I have not seen evidence that he is guilty of anything more than a foolish heart.
Simply having a meal (or lack thereof) with muslims does not make one a traitor to the Jewish people. If this were the case I guess I am guilty since I had Rosh Hashana feast with a muslim couple several years ago. While I was not happy with my table guests I recognized them and did not verbally insult them (although I am sure I gave them a not-so happy look)...
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Let me add another thought..
I would recommend Jews not engage in these kinds of public displays of 'co-existance' with muslims. It does little to help the Jewish cause, and does a lot to help the cause of the muslims.
I also understand Chaim and others anger at this guy. I do not hold it against them to harbor ill thoughts about them. But I have explained how I am slow to curse others (especially Jews)... Please don't hold it against me.
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A local Jewish court in the community he lives in CAN excommunicate (in hebrew we call it cherem) him and that means he will not be counted as part of minyan (10 for prayer) and will not be invited to the synagogue and will be shunned by Jews who adhere to that court. These things had been done before (I don't mean back in the days of sanhedrin but even to this day) although rarely and not always justifiably, but it can be done.
Is there a way to excommunicate these chazirs in Judaism?
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A local Jewish court in the community he lives in CAN excommunicate (in hebrew we call it cherem) him and that means he will not be counted as part of minyan (10 for prayer) and will not be invited to the synagogue and will be shunned by Jews who adhere to that court. These things had been done before (I don't mean back in the days of sanhedrin but even to this day) although rarely and not always justifiably, but it can be done.
Just fasting on Ramaden, alone, should NOT be grounds for expulsion, but actively seeking the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people should be. IMO, any person who actively seeks the destruction of the Jewish people and Nation of Israel , as well as actively aids and helps the enemy that has murdered and harmed Jewish people is a traitor and has no part of the Jewish people. He, IMO, as ChaimFan wrote earlier is worthy of the title "Cut Off From Your People".
Jacob Rosenblum, the Palestinian Nationalist, Anti-Israel, BDS Zealot is, IMO, worthy of such a title, as well as the Judenratt who helped Hitler round up Jews for the gas chambers, naively thinking they would be spared the same fate by complying. Neturei Karta, also, IMO, are worthy of this punishment, as they have denied the Holocaust and have worked to fight against Israel and support the worst enemies of the Jewish people. Many of the worst Anti-Semites use their Anti-Israel/Holocaust Denial protest pictures as some of their main propaganda, to try to prove that the evils of Zionism and Israel and how "Real Jews" are not suppose to support it.
However, this is my opinion and I am sure some will disagree.
Trying to "Co-Exist" with the enemy and be friendly I think is foolish, but not worthy of being ex-communicated or being stripped of your Jewish identity or thrown out of your Jewish community.
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Yes I agree that "just fasting on Ramadan", odd practice as it may be for a Jewish Rabbi might not be reason enough. We have reason to believe that "rabbi" is not just fasting, he is probably an avowed leftist firster in the custom of orthodox Jew.
Just fasting on Ramaden, alone, should NOT be grounds for expulsion, but actively seeking the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people should be. IMO, any person who actively seeks the destruction of the Jewish people and Nation of Israel , as well as actively aids and helps the enemy that has murdered and harmed Jewish people is a traitor and has no part of the Jewish people. He, IMO, as ChaimFan wrote earlier is worthy of the title "Cut Off From Your People".
Jacob Rosenblum, the Palestinian Nationalist, Anti-Israel, BDS Zealot is, IMO, worthy of such a title, as well as the Judenratt who helped Hitler round up Jews for the gas chambers, naively thinking they would be spared the same fate by complying. Neturei Karta, also, IMO, are worthy of this punishment, as they have denied the Holocaust and have worked to fight against Israel and support the worst enemies of the Jewish people. Many of the worst Anti-Semites use their Anti-Israel/Holocaust Denial protest pictures as some of their main propaganda, to try to prove that the evils of Zionism and Israel and how "Real Jews" are not suppose to support it.
However, this is my opinion and I am sure some will disagree.
Trying to "Co-Exist" with the enemy and be friendly I think is foolish, but not worthy of being ex-communicated or being stripped of your Jewish identity or thrown out of your Jewish community.
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I may have told it before...
One night driving home from work (with my 1st Mustang) I was driving in the fast last (carpool lane) and before I could do anything I saw a Christmas tree which I suppose had fallen off the back of a truck while attempting to dispose of it, and my car hit it causing me to swerve into the second land. Luckily for me there was nobody in that lane so I survived with a crumpled front bumper...
After that accident I took the car to the dealer and traded it in for a GT.
I don't like how people dispose of their trees. Often leaving them in the streets for weeks.
I'm glad you're ok but if you were to go a bit slower you would have more time to see obstacles like that and avoid them.
I remember that you had made a post in the past saying that you like to go above the speed limit often.
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I'm glad you're ok but if you were to go a bit slower you would have more time to see obstacles like that and avoid them.
I remember that you had made a post in the past saying that you like to go above the speed limit often.
Never the less there was a full Christmas tree in the center lane of the freeway... Why do people just dump them wherever they please? There really should be disposal provided by the people selling them.
I have never hit anything on the freeway in the over 30 years I have been driving.
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I'm sure it fell out of a truck when it was being taken for proper disposal, and with that being the freeway, you can't really go back and pick it up. It should have been tied down better though so such a thing wouldn't happen.
Maybe you ought to write a song about it to the tune of attack of the killer tomatoes.
Attack of the killer christmas trees!!! :::D You have to keep that vile vegetation in its place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3uIKzgcDxo
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I'm sure it fell out of a truck when it was being taken for proper disposal, and with that being the freeway, you can't really go back and pick it up. It should have been tied down better though so such a thing wouldn't happen.
Maybe you ought to write a song about it to the tune of attack of the killer tomatoes.
Attack of the killer christmas trees!!! :::D You have to keep that vile vegetation in its place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3uIKzgcDxo
What does this have to do with the topic?
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You have to keep that vile vegetation in its place.
:::D
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Do you find tomatoes in the vegetable or the fruit section?
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What does this have to do with the topic?
It doesn't, but...man.. it is funny thinking about Muman being attacked by a "Killer Christmas Tree"!
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Do you find tomatoes in the vegetable or the fruit section?
I think you find them in the vegetable section, even though they are berries.
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I think you find them in the vegetable section, even though they are berries.
: )
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Appointing a holy time by human initiative is hallachically forbidden even to Bnei Noah, much more to Jews (Bnei Noah are also forbidden to celebrate the Torah holidays in the Jewish way). But perhpas that Rabbi has some reason to do it, perhaps it's a personal fast. A Jew, (also a Gentile) is allowed to set a time for voluntary fast. The problem is that he is doing it with them. Ramadan fast is from early in the morning to sunset, so it is a fast, similar to minor Jewish fast and voluntary Jewish fasts to atone for personal sins.
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Appointing a holy time by human initiative is hallachically forbidden even to Bnei Noah, much more to Jews (Bnei Noah are also forbidden to celebrate the Torah holidays in the Jewish way). But perhpas that Rabbi has some reason to do it, perhaps it's a personal fast. A Jew, (also a Gentile) is allowed to set a time for voluntary fast. The problem is that he is doing it with them. Ramadan fast is from early in the morning to sunset, so it is a fast, similar to minor Jewish fast and voluntary Jewish fasts to atone for personal sins.
Shalom Ralmarrio2000, long time no hear... Welcome back!
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Do you find tomatoes in the vegetable or the fruit section?
A lot of times they're near the avocados so I guess fruit as avocados are fruit too.