JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on August 10, 2007, 10:03:20 PM
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Moderators and admins:
I take responsibility for starting the mess in the "JTF Meeting At Queens College" thread by calling out Tzvi Ben Roshel, but I do not apologize. That member and his friend Dominater96 have gone about saying some pretty vile things for many months and have received very little reprimand for any of it. They both frequently threaten forum members with "hell" for criticizing rabbis or religious leaders (especially in Shas), disparage Chaim, refer to Gentile members as "goys" (which, even if not always an insult, is used by THEM as a racial slur), and generally troll about. I just couldn't stomach it when Tzvi started that thread about organizing a JTF meeting, as if to present himself as a leader and uniter within our movement, when in actuality he behaves quite viciously to members who disagree with his notions of rabbinical infallibility. The hypocrisy and cynical two-facedness he displayed by starting that thread just burned me up to an extent that I had to respond. I do not believe my original post challenging him was at all inappropriate, and I completely stand by it.
Actually, the ideology of both those members is completely hypocritical. They rip to pieces anybody who criticizes any Jewish religious leader (be they Shas, Satmar/NK, Chasidic, or some other movement), but don't seem to mind that their heroes are the most hateful and savage of practically anybody on the planet when it comes to attacking fellow Jews. Satmar and NK rabbis in particular are well-known for joyously telling religious Zionists that they should "burn in hell", but yet Dominater believes that they are renowned "Torah Scholars" and do a lot of good in the world.
Of course, Chaim ben Pesach is an actual Torah scholar who is an extremely devout religious Jew and a prominent social leader in the religious Jewish community. If Dominater and Tzvi truly abided by their alleged philosophical compass, they would kiss the ground he walks on.
DownwithIslam has also gotten some heat for referring to Chasidim as evil and phony and anti-Zionist. I am not Jewish, and do not know much about these particular sects/denominations of Judaism, and do not know if all of them are as he describes, but IF his comments do apply to any of them, then no harm and no foul have occurred. I am willing to bet that there are righteous Chasidim, but if only the anti-Zionist, NK ones are who he is acquainted with, I can't attack DWI for speaking the truth from his experiences.
Finally, if member Steveak was banned for promoting atheism and ridiculing the idea of a creator (which I do not disagree with), surely forum members who promote idolatry should face SOME sort of rebuke. Dominater and to a lesser extent his sycophant Tzvi are constantly going on and on and on about how incontrovertible and perfect Rabbi Ovadia Yosef and others like him are. By ascribing divine characteristics to human beings, they are practicing, and promoting on this forum, the abominable sin of polytheism, which is a grave sin within Judaism no matter how you look at it.
I do not want to see rabbis and leaders flamed willy-nilly, but there should be AT LEAST equal consequences for those who attack them and those who attack righteous Jews.
Chaimfan
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You are very brave ChaimFan . : ;)
In my opinion, the things we have said was justifie and everyone should understand the language we'v used that came from anger about those anti-jewish and anti-israel so called jews .
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I tried defending you and DWI, but I don't think it did much good.
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Chaimfan is the best. It's funny that me and him are most despised by certain mods. Me and Chaimfan are the most threatened here only because we are the most like chaim ben pesach. Lisa you happen to be an incredible moderator and if all the mods were like you, this forum would be so much better. I just can't stand that a certain moderator who barely comes on, made an appearance to criticise me for sticking up for chaim ben pesach and defending myself against dominator and tzvi.
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I just can't stand that a certain moderator who barely comes on, made an appearance to criticise me for sticking up for chaim ben pesach and defending myself against dominator and tzvi.
DownwithIslam,
If you're referring to me, I'll tell you that I have been an active supporter of JTF for over 7 years. I'll also remind you that I'm on this forum every day to check the content, but can't post as often as I'd like because of personal issues which I believe will be resolved very soon. I've been a member of the JTF forum since its creation on probroads by Yacov.
Don't question my participation, or right to administrate DWI.
Regards until Shiloh comes,
Christopher
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Chaimfan is the best. It's funny that me and him are most despised by certain mods. Me and Chaimfan are the most threatened here only because we are the most like chaim ben pesach. Lisa you happen to be an incredible moderator and if all the mods were like you, this forum would be so much better. I just can't stand that a certain moderator who barely comes on, made an appearance to criticise me for sticking up for chaim ben pesach and defending myself against dominator and tzvi.
Why don't you ever have the guts to name names? Stop saying a certain this or a certain that.
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Chaimfan is the best. It's funny that me and him are most despised by certain mods. Me and Chaimfan are the most threatened here only because we are the most like chaim ben pesach. Lisa you happen to be an incredible moderator and if all the mods were like you, this forum would be so much better. I just can't stand that a certain moderator who barely comes on, made an appearance to criticise me for sticking up for chaim ben pesach and defending myself against dominator and tzvi.
Down, I don't really think that the mods despise us, just that some are not paying attention to or don't care about the actions of Dominater and Tzvi.
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You are very brave ChaimFan . : ;)
In my opinion, the things we have said was justifie and everyone should understand the language we'v used that came from anger about those anti-jewish and anti-israel so called jews .
Dexter, you are awesome as always. I think you need to be made a mod pronto!
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Tzvi Ben Roshel and Dominator need to be banned immediently
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Tzvi Ben Roshel and Dominator need to be banned immediently
We haven't any banners at the moment. It is the Sabbath.
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Tzvi Ben Roshel and Dominator need to be banned immediently
Your opinion is noted Mr. 20 Posts.
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Can this, just stop.
Either it be resolved, without fuss, or just stopped completely....because it'll escalate.
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Tzvi Ben Roshel and Dominator need to be banned immediently
Your opinion is noted Mr. 20 Posts.
You are one of the people who was threatened with hell for criticizing Shas. The fact that you are kissing up to them now doesn't say much about you.
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What are shas? :-\
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Can this, just stop.
Either it be resolved, without fuss, or just stopped completely....because it'll escalate.
The mods need to take action towards these two users. It isn't fair that they are allowed to curse other forum members because everyone criticizes the rabbis that they worship.
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What are shas? :-\
The Shas party is the official religious party representing Sephardic (i.e. nonwhite) Jews. They are supposed to be ultra-devout and to support a true Jewish theocracy but they do not. They are headed by Rabbi Ovadia Yosef (the chief Sephardic rabbi in Israel), who is very left-wing and supports the Arabs in most areas and believes in handing over large parts of Israel to the Arabs.
Ovadia Yosef ordered Chaim expelled from Israel when he worked for Prime Minister Netanyahu in 1996, but met with Yasser Arafat on that very same day and considered him his friend.
One thing to know about Shas is that they frequently take a particular opinion on something in exchange for money. In other words if the Labor or Likud or Kadima ruling government of Israel wants them to advocate expelling Jews from Gaza or Hebron or wherever else they will write Ovadia Yosef a check and he will tell his followers that they must support the withdrawal.
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How corrupt can these people become?
Are there any good Jews amongst them?
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The Shas party is the official religious party representing Sephardic (i.e. nonwhite) Jews.
R. Yosef looks white to me! He is adorned beautifully, too.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/38/Rabbi_Ovadia_Yosef_Voting_in_Israelis_Elections.jpg)
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He's voting for himself.
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Why don't you just ask Chaim about this?
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Why don't you just ask Chaim about this?
About Shas or about the arguement?
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Why don't you just ask Chaim about this?
About Shas or about the arguement?
About being allowed to insult Rabbis.
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Scriabin, we asked numerous times and Chaim made it clear that we can attack Ovadia Yosef. As far as Until Shiloh Comes is concerned, I did not question your right to administrate but I did question your performance. Why would you single me out and exagerrate what I said when I was threatened with hell and Chaim Ben Pesach was slandered. Don't you see how I could of gotten mad when you threatened to take action against me when numerous prominent admins on this forum agreed with me. JDL4EVER, LISA, Zeev Jabotinsky and others agreed with me. Why would you threated to take action against me when you said nothing to the true haters?
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Why don't you just ask Chaim about this?
About Shas or about the arguement?
About being allowed to insult Rabbis.
Everybody has the freedom to insult, whether it is a good thing...only God knows the truth.....and logic can make out a partial amount of it.
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Yeah Sarah, this whole ordeal was not a good one. I am just upset that he threatened to "Discipline" me without doing anything to the real attackers.
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Yeah Sarah, this whole ordeal was not a good one. I am just upset that he threatened to "Discipline" me without doing anything to the real attackers.
Its probably not worth getting upset for, because it is being done to annoy.
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What Chaim said is that we cannot curse or use dirty language to attack him because it would look bad, not because he disagreed with it. He did not say we could not criticize him and others with the facts.
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Why not present a detailed blow-by-blow description of the events. All this back and fourth stuff is nonsence.
How's someone like me supposed to know who said what about whom.
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Look at the threads and it is clear.
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Look at the threads and it is clear.
Whatever you say.
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I would copy and paste everything but it will take a long time. Sorry bout that.
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What are shas? :-\
The Shas party is the official religious party representing Sephardic (i.e. nonwhite) Jews. They are supposed to be ultra-devout and to support a true Jewish theocracy but they do not. They are headed by Rabbi Ovadia Yosef (the chief Sephardic rabbi in Israel), who is very left-wing and supports the Arabs in most areas and believes in handing over large parts of Israel to the Arabs.
Ovadia Yosef ordered Chaim expelled from Israel when he worked for Prime Minister Netanyahu in 1996, but met with Yasser Arafat on that very same day and considered him his friend.
One thing to know about Shas is that they frequently take a particular opinion on something in exchange for money. In other words if the Labor or Likud or Kadima ruling government of Israel wants them to advocate expelling Jews from Gaza or Hebron or wherever else they will write Ovadia Yosef a check and he will tell his followers that they must support the withdrawal.
Totally wrong. Im sephardic and as white as you can get. he isnt Left wing at all. He doesnt support the arabs n most areas, he has even called for killings of arabs. And again HE DIDNT "ORDER" THAT CHAIM SHOULD BE EXPELLED FROM ISRAEL. I DOUBT HE EVEN KNOWS WHO CBP IS!!!!!!!AND AGAIN HE ISNT DOING EVERYTHING FOR MONEY, HE HALACHICLLY CLAIMS THAT IT IS OK TO GIVE AWAY LAND IF HE BELIEVES IT WILL SAVE JEWISH LIVES. NO CHAIMFAN JEWISH LIVES, NOT ARAB LIVES, WHICH YOU HAVE CLIAMED HE WANTS TO SAVE.
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MassuhDGoodName here.
This stuff is strictly "high school" ridiculousness.
For such contentious behavior did the 2nd Temple fall to Rome, with our people Israel banished from our Land for 2000 years.
The only eyewitness surviving history of Jerusalem's fall to Rome, was written by one known today as Josephus.
Josephus describes in his History of The Jews that immediately prior to the destruction of the Jewish People, Jews all over Jerusalem heard with their own ears the Angelic guardians of Jerusalem repeatedly calling out to them from Heaven "We are leaving now!"..."We are leaving now!".
Leave they did, as Ha'Shem withdrew his Blessing from our ancestors; all of whom were fighting amongst themselves with their fellow Jews.
I suggest all involved in this "war of words" prove their willingness to see our 3rd Temple rebuilt by apologizing to each other, or, short of that, leave this forum for a while until reason wins out over your emotional outbursts.
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Dominator, we have established that you are wrong so lets just end this conversation for the betterment of the cause.
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I would copy and paste everything but it will take a long time. Sorry bout that.
No problem. I knew you had nothing to stand on.
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Scriabin, I just proved you wrong in the libya thread. Go check it out
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I would copy and paste everything but it will take a long time. Sorry bout that.
No problem. I knew you had nothing to stand on.
There Are No 'Israeli' Arabs quote :
"Dominater claimed that I was going to hell, too, for criticizing Rab Obadia. I'm so sick of this abuse."
Tzvi Ben Roshel about DownWithIslam :
"You are right. I did tell downwithislam that he will go to hell "
Tzvi Ben Roshel about DownWithIslam :
"..You are an anti-Semite and ignoramous, I feel sorry for you, and would want you to understand you error."
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Thank you dexter. I heard scriabin had vision problems so he might not see your post either.
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I would copy and paste everything but it will take a long time. Sorry bout that.
No problem. I knew you had nothing to stand on.
There Are No 'Israeli' Arabs quote :
"Dominater claimed that I was going to hell, too, for criticizing Rab Obadia. I'm so sick of this abuse."
Tzvi Ben Roshel about DownWithIslam :
"You are right. I did tell downwithislam that he will go to hell "
Tzvi Ben Roshel about DownWithIslam :
"..You are an anti-Semite and ignoramous, I feel sorry for you, and would want you to understand you error."
But how was Chaim desparaged by these people.
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I posted that numerous times and will post it again for the benefit of those who didnt or didn't wish to see it for that matter. Below is some of it.
Are you even comparing hacham Ovadia to CBP, they arent even in the same league. And again Viewers of this post look at what this man calls the former chief rabbi, "evil", "pimp". And I dont think Rabbi Yosef had anything to do with kicking CBP out of Israel. I know that alot of JTFers think that Chaim is up there with the President but face it, he isnt so "infamous" in Israel, that they would consult the leaders of Israel about him. I respect Chaim as a great man who did good work in the JDL. But Ive spoken to former JDL leaders and they have all said that CHaim, wasnt that significant in JDL, and when he was, it wasnt as big as he claimed.
MODERATORS!!!!!! THIS IS A JEWISH FORUM? ?? The chief Rabbi of Israel being called stupid? ?? This is tolerated? And you have been brainwashed so much. You cant even compare THis holy giant to CBP. And those clothes are the clothing that the rishon L'tzion wears. It is a sephardic custom, stop insulting it.
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I don't want to turn this forum into revava who bans everyone who doesn't agree with everything they say. You don't have to agree with Chaim on everything to post on the forum and we can disagree and argue on the issues as long as you obey the rules. Denominator is going to get banned though if he continues insulting Chaim.
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Jdl4ever I agree with you and respect you totally. The problem was that I was threatened by until shiloh comes. Check out the this thread as well as the queens college meeting thread. Jdl4ever, I know you supported me and I thank you for it.
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I do not have enough time to respond until monday, buy please provide a direct quote from me. If the mods want me kicked out, please give me time after monday to respond. Toda.
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I do not have enough time to respond until monday, buy please provide a direct quote from me. If the mods want me kicked out, please give me time after monday to respond. Toda.
Like this quotes ?
Tzvi Ben Roshel about DownWithIslam :
"You are right. I did tell downwithislam that he will go to hell "
Tzvi Ben Roshel about DownWithIslam :
"..You are an anti-Semite and ignoramous, I feel sorry for you, and would want you to understand you error."
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Tzvi Ben Roshel, I think you have a good heart and you are different than Dominator96. I just think you are mistaken that chasidim and litvishe are untouchable and that criticism of them is forbidden. I certainly will not burn in hell for saying what I said. I never said you should be banned. Their are other on here that deserve that but not you. I never said you questioned chaim, I was talking about dominator96. Please be careful as you can never be sure who will go to hell. I merely asked chaim if the chasidim are going to hell uf you remember, i didn't proclaim they would. Lets just end this disagreement and make peace. I did say that you didn't rate jtf videos and for that I apologize because I was wrong.
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Thank you dexter for the support. I know tzvi ben roshel said those things and he was wrong for initiating a personal attack against me. Lets give him a chance to accept the truce for the benefit of jtf. He is not as at fault in this disagreement as some others. Thank you again dexter.
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HE HALACHICLLY CLAIMS THAT IT IS OK TO GIVE AWAY LAND IF HE BELIEVES IT WILL SAVE JEWISH LIVES. NO CHAIMFAN JEWISH LIVES, NOT ARAB LIVES, WHICH YOU HAVE CLIAMED HE WANTS TO SAVE.
Yeah... I am supposed to believe he meant "Jewish" lives when he says that Arafat is his friend and that we can work with the Arabs to his audience? ::)
Look... it is fine if you want to make a case to defend the man (WITHOUT flaming the 99.8% of the forum that disagrees with you), but why must you distort what he says so that it is more palatable for us? If you really agree with every word he says and believe he is a saintly prophet, why do you need to reinterpret his own words for our ears?
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Chaimfan, I have nothing to add. You have a way of putting everything that I am thinking so eloquently into words.
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HE HALACHICLLY CLAIMS THAT IT IS OK TO GIVE AWAY LAND IF HE BELIEVES IT WILL SAVE JEWISH LIVES. NO CHAIMFAN JEWISH LIVES, NOT ARAB LIVES, WHICH YOU HAVE CLIAMED HE WANTS TO SAVE.
A. Ovadia's Halacha isn't really the most importen Halacha .
B. If it's true, why does all religous groups but Shas don't want give any land ?
C. It's not true, if it was, we should give ALL land of Israel .
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Thanks as always.
Tzvi, I will leave you out of this and give you a chance to demonstrate that this is over.
Dominater, it is time to put up or shut up. Either demonstrate why we are wrong and Ovadia Yosef is infallible or give this argument that nobody else agrees with you on up. Trying to make his words more tolerable for us doesn't fall into the two above categories.
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Why is it that a thirteen-year-old boy has more common sense than just about everyone else on JTF? ???
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Yes Tzvi is different and not as extreme as dominator. He did not attack Chaim Ben Pesach like dominator did so he is different. Lets give him a chance. I have no patience for dominator as he is just one big problem for this forum.
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Because Dexter is a real genius and he is just a normal sane person. He deserves more honor than he gets.
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I don't want to start any problems but I have an explanation for that chaimfan. I would bother certain mods and I said I would stop so I can't.
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What are shas? :-\
The Shas party is the official religious party representing Sephardic (i.e. nonwhite) Jews. They are supposed to be ultra-devout and to support a true Jewish theocracy but they do not. They are headed by Rabbi Ovadia Yosef (the chief Sephardic rabbi in Israel), who is very left-wing and supports the Arabs in most areas and believes in handing over large parts of Israel to the Arabs.
Ovadia Yosef ordered Chaim expelled from Israel when he worked for Prime Minister Netanyahu in 1996, but met with Yasser Arafat on that very same day and considered him his friend.
One thing to know about Shas is that they frequently take a particular opinion on something in exchange for money. In other words if the Labor or Likud or Kadima ruling government of Israel wants them to advocate expelling Jews from Gaza or Hebron or wherever else they will write Ovadia Yosef a check and he will tell his followers that they must support the withdrawal.
Totally wrong. Im sephardic and as white as you can get. he isnt Left wing at all. He doesnt support the arabs n most areas, he has even called for killings of arabs. And again HE DIDNT "ORDER" THAT CHAIM SHOULD BE EXPELLED FROM ISRAEL. I DOUBT HE EVEN KNOWS WHO CBP IS!!!!!!!AND AGAIN HE ISNT DOING EVERYTHING FOR MONEY, HE HALACHICLLY CLAIMS THAT IT IS OK TO GIVE AWAY LAND IF HE BELIEVES IT WILL SAVE JEWISH LIVES. NO CHAIMFAN JEWISH LIVES, NOT ARAB LIVES, WHICH YOU HAVE CLIAMED HE WANTS TO SAVE.
Rav Ovadia Yosef has purposely perverted Halakha for his own purposes and because of his own cowardice. His Ruling on the requirement of giving up land to save Jewish lives is a perversion of the Halakha in Maimonides. Maimonides says that if a Jew's live is threatened he can do anything that the Torah forbids to save his life with the exception of murdering an innocent person, worshipping idols and sexual immorality. Any other prohibition can be violated to save a life except these three prohibitions.
Maimonides says that this is specifically talking about a Jew who is alone and and his life is threatened. But if ten Jews are present when he does the prohibition to save his life, it is considered a desecration of G-d's name and a Jew must give up his life rather than trangress any Torah prohibition.
Rav Ovadia pulled out what he liked ie that one can transgress any prohibition to save a live which includes of course giving up land, and he ignored Maimonides' modifier that it is talking about one Jew alone whose life is being threatened. NEVER was this meant to be applied to what a Jewish nation living sovereign in their land must do. When Maimonides' ideas about fighting wars is straight out of the book of Joshua. A Jewish country must fight it's enemies as Joshua did, as David did and so on and so forth.
I think that it wrong to make personal and insulting statements about Rabbanim even ones who are dead wrong in their Halakhic thinking.
But let's not confuse respect for a Rabbi who is dead wrong on almost all of his rulings as Rav Ovadia Yosef is, with having to agree with his perversion of Halakha.
I will never accept his ideas as Halakhically sound.
They are not.
And I know better.
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Thank you judeanoncapta for confirming our beliefs. This just proves certain "members" of our forum even more irrelevant. We should just ignore any looser who comes on and sticks up for this vile piece of drek in the guise of a rabbi. I just wish that the moderator who insulted me would admit his guilt and wrongdoing. Thank you again judeanoncapta and I have always looked up to you as a knowledgeable person who doesn't blindly follow people without thinking about it.
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What are shas? :-\
The Shas party is the official religious party representing Sephardic (i.e. nonwhite) Jews. They are supposed to be ultra-devout and to support a true Jewish theocracy but they do not. They are headed by Rabbi Ovadia Yosef (the chief Sephardic rabbi in Israel), who is very left-wing and supports the Arabs in most areas and believes in handing over large parts of Israel to the Arabs.
Ovadia Yosef ordered Chaim expelled from Israel when he worked for Prime Minister Netanyahu in 1996, but met with Yasser Arafat on that very same day and considered him his friend.
One thing to know about Shas is that they frequently take a particular opinion on something in exchange for money. In other words if the Labor or Likud or Kadima ruling government of Israel wants them to advocate expelling Jews from Gaza or Hebron or wherever else they will write Ovadia Yosef a check and he will tell his followers that they must support the withdrawal.
Totally wrong. Im sephardic and as white as you can get. he isnt Left wing at all. He doesnt support the arabs n most areas, he has even called for killings of arabs. And again HE DIDNT "ORDER" THAT CHAIM SHOULD BE EXPELLED FROM ISRAEL. I DOUBT HE EVEN KNOWS WHO CBP IS!!!!!!!AND AGAIN HE ISNT DOING EVERYTHING FOR MONEY, HE HALACHICLLY CLAIMS THAT IT IS OK TO GIVE AWAY LAND IF HE BELIEVES IT WILL SAVE JEWISH LIVES. NO CHAIMFAN JEWISH LIVES, NOT ARAB LIVES, WHICH YOU HAVE CLIAMED HE WANTS TO SAVE.
Rav Ovadia Yosef has purposely perverted Halakha for his own purposes and because of his own cowardice. His Ruling on the requirement of giving up land to save Jewish lives is a perversion of the Halakha in Maimonides. Maimonides says that if a Jew's live is threatened he can do anything that the Torah forbids to save his life with the exception of murdering an innocent person, worshipping idols and sexual immorality. Any other prohibition can be violated to save a life except these three prohibitions.
Maimonides says that this is specifically talking about a Jew who is alone and and his life is threatened. But if ten Jews are present when he does the prohibition to save his life, it is considered a desecration of G-d's name and a Jew must give up his life rather than trangress any Torah prohibition.
Rav Ovadia pulled out what he liked ie that one can transgress any prohibition to save a live which includes of course giving up land, and he ignored Maimonides' modifier that it is talking about one Jew alone whose life is being threatened. NEVER was this meant to be applied to what a Jewish nation living sovereign in their land must do. When Maimonides' ideas about fighting wars is straight out of the book of Joshua. A Jewish country must fight it's enemies as Joshua did, as David did and so on and so forth.
I think that it wrong to make personal and insulting statements about Rabbanim even ones who are dead wrong in their Halakhic thinking.
But let's not confuse respect for a Rabbi who is dead wrong on almost all of his rulings as Rav Ovadia Yosef is, with having to agree with his perversion of Halakha.
I will never accept his ideas as Halakhically sound.
They are not.
And I know better.
I do not hold according to Hacham Ovadia on "Zionism", or "Israel related" issues. But I still think that it is a hillul hashem for the non jews on the forum to criticize this holy rav. Harav Mordechai Eliyahu, also former chief rabbi of Israel disagrees with him. Do you see him making public statements about Harav Ovadia saying that he is wrong? And for a religous jew to say that Harav Ovadia is dead wrong on almost all of his ruling, as you did, is upsurd.
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Dominator, you are playing a broken record. Nobody agrees with you. Some of the most righteous members of this forum are coming out against you which says something.
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Again, for the 50 milion time, no rav is holy, especialy one the hold the giult about Oslo Agreement, everyone, no metter if he's Gentile or Jewish have the right to criticize Ovadia, and everyone else .
If HaRav Mordechai Eliyahu isn't fundamental and does not criticize Ovadia, it's bad thing, and HaRav Mordechai Eliyahu isn't a model for a Jew and for all idealistic people .
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Hehe, everything that comes out of dexters mouth is factual and perfectly said.
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Hehe, everything that comes out of dexters mouth is factual and perfectly said.
Amen
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MassuhDGoodName here.
This stuff is strictly "high school" ridiculousness.
For such contentious behavior did the 2nd Temple fall to Rome, with our people Israel banished from our Land for 2000 years.
The only eyewitness surviving history of Jerusalem's fall to Rome, was written by one known today as Josephus.
Josephus describes in his History of The Jews that immediately prior to the destruction of the Jewish People, Jews all over Jerusalem heard with their own ears the Angelic guardians of Jerusalem repeatedly calling out to them from Heaven "We are leaving now!"..."We are leaving now!".
Leave they did, as Ha'Shem withdrew his Blessing from our ancestors; all of whom were fighting amongst themselves with their fellow Jews.
I suggest all involved in this "war of words" prove their willingness to see our 3rd Temple rebuilt by apologizing to each other, or, short of that, leave this forum for a while until reason wins out over your emotional outbursts.
Amein.
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Chaimfan...How about an LA meeting?
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Chaimfan...How about an LA meeting?
I think you should apologized and than ChaimFan will actually answer to you .
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Good point dexter.
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Chaimfan...How about an LA meeting?
I think you should apologized and than ChaimFan will actually answer to you .
I apologize.
How about an LA meeting?
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Ok admitting guilt is one step in the right direction and it increases my respect for you. I live in NYC so I obviously can't come. How many members from the west coast do we have Scriabin?
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Ok admitting guilt is one step in the right direction and it increases my respect for you. I live in NYC so I obviously can't come. How many members from the west coast do we have Scriabin?
Chaimfan and myself. Perhaps Thunderbolt as well.
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How far away do you live from each other?
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How far away do you live from each other?
40 minutes. This time of night, maybe 30.
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Oh well, lets see what Chaimfan says. If you lived in NYC I would meet you. Are you sure there is nobody else on here from your area? maybe a regular poster on here lives in California but we don't realize.
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Oh well, lets see what Chaimfan says. If you lived in NYC I would meet you. Are you sure there is nobody else on here from your area? maybe a regular poster on here lives in California but we don't realize.
Perhaps Thunderbolt.
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I don't know. Maybe. We really should have a nyc meeting as their are lots of people from the area on here.
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I don't know. Maybe. We really should have a nyc meeting as their are lots of people from the area on here.
We had one before and only me & cjd showed up. http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=4908.0
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I don't know. Maybe. We really should have a nyc meeting as their are lots of people from the area on here.
Why will Chaimfan not answer me. I know he's there.
I could drive to anywhere in the LA area to meet him...tonight.
We could meet at a public place. Some kind of all-night diner, or whatever.
I'm completely serious.
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Why will Chaimfan not answer me. I know he's there.
I could drive to anywhere in the LA area to meet him...tonight.
We could meet at a public place. Some kind of all-night diner, or whatever.
I'm completely serious.
Do you like have a crush on me, or what? :laugh:
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MassuhDGoodName here.
This stuff is strictly "high school" ridiculousness.
For such contentious behavior did the 2nd Temple fall to Rome, with our people Israel banished from our Land for 2000 years.
The only eyewitness surviving history of Jerusalem's fall to Rome, was written by one known today as Josephus.
Josephus describes in his History of The Jews that immediately prior to the destruction of the Jewish People, Jews all over Jerusalem heard with their own ears the Angelic guardians of Jerusalem repeatedly calling out to them from Heaven "We are leaving now!"..."We are leaving now!".
Leave they did, as Ha'Shem withdrew his Blessing from our ancestors; all of whom were fighting amongst themselves with their fellow Jews.
I suggest all involved in this "war of words" prove their willingness to see our 3rd Temple rebuilt by apologizing to each other, or, short of that, leave this forum for a while until reason wins out over your emotional outbursts.
Are you guys serious?? This is what you are upset about? Grow some thicker skin.
We are not going to agree on every issue. Just look at yourselves. Shame! We'll never become a mass movement if you guys continue to act like this! It's so selfish and wrong. Wow... and what, exactly, is this supposed to accomplish?
MassuhDGoodName, is 100% right. Stop this terrible bickering once and for all.
1.) Until Shiloh Comes is one of our great Administrators. What he says goes. He was picked by Chaim ben Pesach and I will not stand here and allow this type of mutiny.
2.) Stop speaking evil against the high Rabbis. You don't have to agree with them but this does NOT help our cause and it is wrong. Chaim even gave an entire segment on this on one of the Ask JTF shows recently.
3.) Do you love JTF and the cause or are you more involved in your own egos? This is beyond divisive.
UNITY is what we need! Why waste all this time and effort on this when we could be growing the forum?
I am so disappointed in this thread. You should all be really embarrassed by the evil you have done in here. G-d help us.
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Alright, it is over.
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I'm just glad I'm not in the poo for once. ;D
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I don't know. Maybe. We really should have a nyc meeting as their are lots of people from the area on here.
We had one before and only me & cjd showed up. http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=4908.0
Its to bad more people did not show up that day it was a great place to have a get together. The weather was great the campus was quiet and there was spots to sit and talk. I really enjoyed meeting jdl4ever and even got to see Hail Columbia. If we have another meeting I would love to attend.
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I remember that meeting and I don't think it will work unless Chaim and Jimmy sullivan make it official. I think we should have an official JTFdinner or meeting and I think lots of people will come then.
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I do not hold according to Hacham Ovadia on "Zionism", or "Israel related" issues. But I still think that it is a hillul hashem for the non jews on the forum to criticize this holy rav. Harav Mordechai Eliyahu, also former chief rabbi of Israel disagrees with him. Do you see him making public statements about Harav Ovadia saying that he is wrong? And for a religous jew to say that Harav Ovadia is dead wrong on almost all of his ruling, as you did, is upsurd.
It says in Mesekheth Horioth that if a Talmid hamagia l'Horaah, a student who is knowledgable enough to give instruction to others decides to rely on the Sanhedrin and do something that the Torah says is forbidden,(which the Sanhedrin mistakenly beleives is permisable), that student must bring his own Qorban and cannot rely on the Par Healam davar that is brought for all o the people who acted according o the Sanhedrin's mistake.
Now this is talking about a Sanhedrin which has very real power according to the Torah, not a Rav who only must be listened to by his students. Even then a Sanhedrin can make a mistake and if someone who knows better decides to transgress a prohibition that the Sanhedrin has mistakenly prohibited, his sin is on his own head.
I can therefore not say that I will ignore what I have learned both in Maimonides and the Talmudh and the Shulhan Arukh and rely on Rav Ovadia's Pisqei Din. If I do, my sin will be on my own head.
I noticed that you said that you don't agree with him on Zionism and Israel related issues, that presumes that you agree with him on everything else and you accept whatever else he says without looking up the sources he is basing himself on. I suggest that you do so before relying on anything he says. Because if he is willing to pervert the words of Maimonides so brazenly then how can we assume he does not do so in other issues?
As far as criticizing Rav Ovadia, I will repeat again my position. I don't think it is wrong for anyone to criticize his ideas. I think that it is wrong to call him a peice of drek or to intimate sexual proclivities about him.
I will always oppose that.
But to say that he is wrong, is not a problem. We find Rabbonim in the Talmudh disagreeing with each other with very strong language indeed.
To paraphrase the Talmud, let me say about Rav Ovadia Yosef's ideas:
His words are like Smoke to my eyes and vinegar to my teeth.
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I agree with judeanoncapta. Maimonities in Hilchot Yisodei Hatorah is very clear and R' Ovadia goes directly against Maimonities.
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Ok, I have already committed myself to criticize him without using sexual and other improper terms. It's not that I don't want to call him those names, I just feel it won't help JTF.
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What are the rules for attacking an openly gay reform rabbi?
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The Shas party is the official religious party representing Sephardic (i.e. nonwhite) Jews.
R. Yosef looks white to me! He is adorned beautifully, too.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/38/Rabbi_Ovadia_Yosef_Voting_in_Israelis_Elections.jpg)
adorned beautifully he looks like an iraqi shia imam very gaudy outfit.. he no doubt loves money more then the average man
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I agree with judeanoncapta. Maimonities in Hilchot Yitodei Hatorah is very clear and R' Ovadia goes directly against Maimonities.
Thank you very much for your appelation.
It is not a Mitzvah to listen to a Rav when you know the Halakha is different than what he is saying.
The Talmud in Horioth says these words about a student who does so, Ta'a biMitzvah lishmoah lidivrei Hakhamim. He made a mistake in the Mitzvah of listening to Hakhamim. Let's not make such a mistake.
As far as Dominater96 saying that he only disagrees with Rav Ovadia on Israel and Zionism. That says to me that he listens to everything without learning the actual sources. However, in Israel and Zionism issues, he disagrees with him. On what basis? His own personal feelings. That's what.
I think that is an untenable position for a religious Jew. The idea that I will listen blindly to anything a Rav says unless I personally disagree with it. Well, if one disagrees with it, then one is obligated to look up the Torah source and see what the truth is. Perhaps he is wrong and the Rav is right. How does he know unless he looks it up and learns it?
Either way Rav Ovadia is wrong about giving up land.
Rav Kahane TZ"L HY"D has a shiur on youtube refuting Rav Ovadia's halakhic reasoning called the Yoke of Heaven.
Rav David Bar Haim has a shiur on machonshilo.org in the audio section refuting Rav Ovadia's halakhic reasoning called Land for Peace part 1.
A discerning mind should Listen to these shiurim, Read Maimonides and all of the sources quoted and make up his own mind.
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What are the rules for attacking an openly gay reform rabbi?
Baseball bats are good.
Try not to get caught though.
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What are the rules for attacking an openly gay reform rabbi?
Baseball bats are good.
Try not to get caught though.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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What are the rules for attacking an openly gay reform rabbi?
Baseball bats are good.
Try not to get caught though.
I agree with that. We should use a bat on piss now as well.
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What are the rules for attacking an openly gay reform rabbi?
Baseball bats are good.
Try not to get caught though.
I agree with that. We should use a bat on piss now as well.
Well, I think that when the nation of Israel wakes up and elects Kahanists to run the country, There should a public execution by decapitation of every member of Peace Now and Neturei Karta and Gush Shalom etc.
And I'm not kidding.
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Jdl4ever I agree with you and respect you totally. The problem was that I was threatened by until shiloh comes.
DownWithIslam,
The record shows I made no such "threat" to anyone. I made a post admonishing ALL our members, which you decided to take personally. I have no control over your reading comprehension DWI, but I've told you already that it wasn't personally directed at you and clarified my remarks. The fact that you continue to accuse me of this suggests that you believe I am a liar. May HaShem judge between you and I on this issue.
Regards until Shiloh comes,
Christopher
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Judea non capta, every time I see a muslim in America, I feel like decapitating him.
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Check out these loyal American Muslims.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B1FHeIP53Q
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Re: "...What are the rules for attacking an openly gay reform rabbi?.."
The rules are:
Unless he physically attacks you first, and you are defending yourself, then you are committing a most serious crime, and may very well end up in so much legal and financial trouble that you will wish you had never been born. You will also bring disgrace on your parents, your family members, and your community.
Sure doesn't make sense to me to find yourself locked in a tiny cell for 10 to 20 years with one or more negro homosexual rapists and murderers if you don't like to be around queers.
There is nothing you could do to to such an obviously depraved individual as an openly practicing homosexual "Rabbi" that could outdo the damage such a fool is doing to themselves.
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THIS IS A GROUP THAT PLANS TO SAVE THE WORLD...
WE CANT EVEN GET ALONG WITH EACH OTHER... IN THE INTEREST OF SETTLING THIS.. ON ONE HAND CHAIMFAN AND DOWNWITHISLAM HAVE HUGE ADMIRATION FOR CHAIM BEN PAESACH...
ON THE OTHER HAND DOMINATOR96 HAS HIS OWN OPINIONS WHICH REALLY DON'T MATTER IN THE LONG RUN...
WE HAVE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT HERE