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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ephraim Ben Noach on September 15, 2014, 08:41:09 PM

Title: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on September 15, 2014, 08:41:09 PM
http://www.religionnews.com/2014/06/13/pope-francis-inside-every-christian-jew/

VATICAN CITY (RNS) Underscoring the close ties between Christianity and Judaism and calling Holocaust denial “madness,” Pope Francis told an interviewer that “inside every Christian is a Jew.”

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Pope Francis recently decried anti-Semitism as “madness” and made waves with his controversial “inside every Christian is a Jew” statement.Creative Commons image by the Catholic Church (England and Wales)

 This image is available for Web and printpublication. For questions, contact Sally Morrow.

In a wide-ranging interview published Friday (June 13) in Spain’s La Vanguardia newspaper, the pope said dialogue between the two faiths can sometimes be a “hot potato.”

“I believe that interreligious dialogue must investigate the Jewish roots of Christianity and the Christian flowering of Judaism,” Francis said. “I understand it is a challenge, a hot potato, but it is possible to live as brothers.”

Francis’ statement seems to go further than his predecessor, St. John Paul II, who made headlines in 1986 as the first pope to visit Rome’s main synagogue and declared Jews to be the “elder brothers” of the Christian faith.

“Every day, I pray with the Psalms of David. My prayer is Jewish, then I have the Eucharist, which is Christian,” the Argentine pontiff added.

The pope also took the opportunity to criticize Holocaust denial as “madness” while defending the record of Pope Pius XII, who led the Roman Catholic Church during World War II.

Francis will soon have to decide whether to advance the sainthood cause for the controversial wartime pope, who is accused of failing to speak out publicly against the mass murder of Jews. For years, Jewish leaders and Nazi hunters have demanded the Vatican open up its secret wartime files.

Francis said he was concerned about “everything which has been thrown at poor Pius XII,” while stressing that he sheltered Jews in the convents of Rome and other Italian cities, as well as the popes’ summer residence in Castel Gadolfo.

“I do not mean to say that Pius XII did not make mistakes — I make many mistakes myself — but his role must be read in the context of the time,” Pope Francis said.

Francis added that he breaks out in an “existential rash” when he hears people speak against Pius and the church’s wartime record while ignoring inaction by the Allies fighting against Nazi Germany.

“Did you know that they knew perfectly well the rail network used by the Nazis to take the Jews to the concentration camps? They had photographs,” he said. “But they did not bomb these rail lines. Why? It would be nice if we spoke a little bit about everything.”

During Friday’s interview with the Barcelona daily, Francis was also asked about his own security, saying he refused to travel in a bulletproof “sardine can” vehicle because he wants to mingle with ordinary people.

“It is true that anything can happen, but let’s face it, at my age I have nothing to lose,” the 77-year-old pontiff said.

The former archbishop of Buenos Aires was also asked how he would like to be remembered as a pope.

“I have not thought about that,” Francis said. “But I like it when you remember someone and say ‘He was a good guy, he did what he could, and he was not that bad.’ I would be happy with that.”
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: muman613 on September 15, 2014, 09:29:23 PM
That is his opinion, not Halacha...

According to Judaism every Christian is NOT a Jew... They could be if they wanted to, but I doubt they would...

Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: muman613 on September 15, 2014, 09:33:17 PM
Im sorry if I don't find this comment 'warm and fuzzy'... I find it somewhat offensive.

Nice that he wants forgiveness for the churches abysmal response to Nazi Germany... Maybe he can reign in his antisemitic bishops...

The Catholic church is responsible for over 1200 years of oppression of Jews.... Now he wants us to forget that... Very unlikely.
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: muman613 on September 15, 2014, 09:38:50 PM
Maybe the pope needs to understand just how much Jew hatred was spawned by the church..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnrIXvE_cmI
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: Israel Chai on September 15, 2014, 09:39:25 PM
Does this mean he'll be less supportive of the terrorists in Fraudestine?
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: muman613 on September 15, 2014, 09:40:23 PM
Does this mean he'll be less supportive of the terrorists in Fraudestine?

Doubt it... I suspect he is doing this in order to ease the 'beatification' of Pious XII...

Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: Lisa on September 15, 2014, 09:44:47 PM
What is the "Christian flowering of Judaism" supposed to mean?
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: muman613 on September 15, 2014, 09:46:40 PM
What is the "Christian flowering of Judaism" supposed to mean?

I suspect it comes from their belief that they are a branch of the Abrahamic tree...

"In [the days that are] coming, Yaacov will give root, Israel will sprout and blossom" (Isaiah 27:6).

Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on September 15, 2014, 09:53:10 PM
My point wasn't to say Christians are Jews. .... I have never been for this Pope, or any Pope for that matter. I just think this was a good thing to say. It is good for Christians to know that their religion came from Judaism, and that as a Christian you are connected to the Jewish people, the Jew's are Christians big brother, and the land of Israel is holy.
This is a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on September 15, 2014, 09:53:53 PM
What is the "Christian flowering of Judaism" supposed to mean?
I didn't get that either.
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on September 15, 2014, 09:57:45 PM
I always hated Catholics growing up... until I got to know some...
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: muman613 on September 15, 2014, 10:03:52 PM
How many licks of a Catholic does it take till you hit the Jew inside?

(https://forgottenadvertisements.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/tootsie-pop-owl.jpg)

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?
http://www.tootsie.com/faqs
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: Dr. Dan on September 15, 2014, 10:39:24 PM
 :::D

In every Christian is a Jew and Jews can't have Israel since it belongs to the Arabs.  And Jews are not the real Jews anyway. It's the Christians who are the real Jews.

This is what the pope really thinks.
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: IsraelForever on September 16, 2014, 01:57:53 AM
I think it's great when this pope -- or any pope -- says that anti-Semitism is madness.  His followers need to hear this from him.  It can't hurt us that he says this. 
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: Manch on September 16, 2014, 06:04:56 PM
That is his opinion, not Halacha...

According to Judaism every Christian is NOT a Jew... They could be if they wanted to, but I doubt they would...
He didn't say that. He said, as I understand, that inside of every Christian there's a bit of Jew. If that's how he feels, that is a valid position, I believe.
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: muman613 on September 16, 2014, 06:05:57 PM
He didn't say that. He said, as I understand, that inside of every Christian there's a bit of Jew. If that's how he feels, that is a valid position, I believe.

I understand that is how he feels... But how is it so?

Jews have obligations which non-Jews don't have... Do they keep the commandments which Jews are commanded to? What is it about them (aside from the fact that their 'savior' was a Jew) that gives them this 'bit of a Jew'?

Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: IsraelForever on September 16, 2014, 07:23:49 PM
I thought that the Pope was speaking metaphorically when he said that inside every Christian is a Jew.  Since so many Christians hate Jews, it didn't bother me that he said that.  Let them think it if they want.  Let them think that inside every Christian is a little Rabbi for all I care.  But I understood the Pope to mean that since Jesus was Jewish (according to them) and since Jesus was the son of G-d (according to them) then, metaphorically, there would be some Jewishness inside of them.  Of course, it's all baloney and nonsense.  But if it will stop some anti-Semitism in the world, then I'm all for him saying it.  Am I wrong here?
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on September 16, 2014, 07:47:05 PM
Inside BerGOGlio is the devil.
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: muman613 on September 16, 2014, 07:48:51 PM
I thought that the Pope was speaking metaphorically when he said that inside every Christian is a Jew.  Since so many Christians hate Jews, it didn't bother me that he said that.  Let them think it if they want.  Let them think that inside every Christian is a little Rabbi for all I care.  But I understood the Pope to mean that since Jesus was Jewish (according to them) and since Jesus was the son of G-d (according to them) then, metaphorically, there would be some Jewishness inside of them.  Of course, it's all baloney and nonsense.  But if it will stop some anti-Semitism in the world, then I'm all for him saying it.  Am I wrong here?

I don't think you are wrong. If this does reduce antisemitism then it is worthwhile. But after watching several videos about the history of Jew hatred, I find it hard to believe such a simple saying will influence non-Jews to change their thoughts about the Jewish people.
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: angryChineseKahanist on September 16, 2014, 08:52:34 PM
That is his opinion, not Halacha...

According to Judaism every Christian is NOT a Jew... They could be if they wanted to, but I doubt they would...


he was attempting to say something nice. give him credit. of course 99% of the time he's a total @$$h013.
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: muman613 on September 16, 2014, 10:09:57 PM

he was attempting to say something nice. give him credit. of course 99% of the time he's a total @$$h013.

I suppose it was meant nice... But it smacks of a little 'replacement' theology.

Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: Dr. Dan on September 17, 2014, 05:59:23 AM
I thought that the Pope was speaking metaphorically when he said that inside every Christian is a Jew.  Since so many Christians hate Jews, it didn't bother me that he said that.  Let them think it if they want.  Let them think that inside every Christian is a little Rabbi for all I care.  But I understood the Pope to mean that since Jesus was Jewish (according to them) and since Jesus was the son of G-d (according to them) then, metaphorically, there would be some Jewishness inside of them.  Of course, it's all baloney and nonsense.  But if it will stop some anti-Semitism in the world, then I'm all for him saying it.  Am I wrong here?

It won't stop anti semitism.

It will bring on more anti Catholicism

Or more likely

Replacement theism
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: Manch on September 17, 2014, 02:41:15 PM
I understand that is how he feels... But how is it so?

Jews have obligations which non-Jews don't have... Do they keep the commandments which Jews are commanded to? What is it about them (aside from the fact that their 'savior' was a Jew) that gives them this 'bit of a Jew'?
As he said, same prayers, believe in one G-d, one theological foundation, 10 commandments. Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism, therefore it theologically draws from it. Therefore, the hatred against the roots of your own religion is illogical. That, I think, what he implied.
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: muman613 on September 17, 2014, 02:49:12 PM
As he said, same prayers, believe in one G-d, one theological foundation, 10 commandments. Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism, therefore it theologically draws from it. Therefore, the hatred against the roots of your own religion is illogical. That, I think, what he implied.

I do believe that there are many differences between Judaism and Christianity. From a Jewish perspective (religious) it seems odd to say what he said. I will not go into the known differences here because when I do I usually get people thinking I am disparaging their beliefs.



Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: dimitry on September 17, 2014, 04:08:18 PM
I suppose it was meant nice... But it smacks of a little 'replacement' theology.
It's more like he is just moving towards position more close to protestantism.
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on September 18, 2014, 01:07:08 AM
Nothing BerGOGlio says lacks a sinister ulterior motive.
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: Zelhar on September 18, 2014, 04:56:14 AM
It probably stems from replacement theory, namely that Christianity is the real Israel of the spirit and that ONLY in Christianity lives the chosen people while the stubborn Jews are merely Israel of the flesh.

Still, I would be more bothered if he phrased it the other way around- that in every Jew there is a Christian. As long as he just speak to Christians and about Christianity I don't care.
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 18, 2014, 09:26:44 AM
That is his opinion, not Halacha...

According to Judaism every Christian is NOT a Jew... They could be if they wanted to, but I doubt they would...

Kind of a strange thing to say.  Why would anyone think a non Jewish person is teaching halacha?

I think the pope has bad intentions with comments like he's making.   He's trying to say christianity is some kind of "upgraded" judaism and that Jews should ultimately embrace it God forbid.  He may deny it but those are his intentions and motivation for making these statements.

The ccrimes of the allied powers do not excuse the crimes of the pope.   Disappointing and immoral reasoning he is using.
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: angryChineseKahanist on September 18, 2014, 10:29:32 AM
Kind of a strange thing to say.  Why would anyone think a non Jewish person is teaching halacha?

I think the pope has bad intentions with comments like he's making.   He's trying to say christianity is some kind of "upgraded" judaism and that Jews should ultimately embrace it God forbid.  He may deny it but those are his intentions and motivation for making these statements.

The ccrimes of the allied powers do not excuse the crimes of the pope.   Disappointing and immoral reasoning he is using.

I think the pope was installed by the homo Leninists.
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 18, 2014, 08:51:12 PM
I think the pope was installed by the homo Leninists.

Quite possible.
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: Israel Chai on December 28, 2014, 06:56:11 PM
I realized that's essentially the "completed Jew" thing the "Jews" for the baptist church say.
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: syyuge on December 29, 2014, 03:08:34 AM
Trying to be apologetic or what.
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on December 29, 2014, 02:26:06 PM
Just taken by itself I don't think the comment is offensive. If Pat Robertson said it, would we be mad?

The real problem is that we know BerGOGlio has evil intentions to everything he says and does and that he is an enemy of the Jews.
Title: Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
Post by: cjd on December 31, 2014, 01:22:00 AM
How many licks of a Catholic does it take till you hit the Jew inside?

(https://forgottenadvertisements.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/tootsie-pop-owl.jpg)

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?
http://www.tootsie.com/faqs
The world will never know  :::D