JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: muman613 on April 07, 2015, 12:34:02 AM
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Shalom,
Today I saw a story in the news about a so-called 'Good Samaritan'. It so happens that Rabbi Singer has recently posted this video explaining why, from a Jewish perspective, the 'Good Samaritan' story is used to antisemitic ends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-vETh6RBYo
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This is the story I am talking about...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DMhw4POrR4
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Yes, because we all know it's much more productive to look for anti-Semitism in random news headlines than in the Obama Administration or Iran! :laugh:
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Yes, because we all know it's much more productive to look for anti-Semitism in random news headlines than in the Obama Administration or Iran! :laugh:
As always you completely miss the point of my post. I never said that the news headline contained antisemitism. Actually it has nothing to do with what I am trying to convey here. It is just an example of the use of the term 'good samaritan' which is a term which I find objectionable for the reason stated above. The context of the story in the NT needs to be examined to understand what I am saying.
And you should be aware that I am constantly calling obama out for his antisemitism.
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OK so a little more about this heartless Jew vulture who let the person lay there dying.
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OK so a little more about this heartless Jew vulture who let the person lay there dying.
It is hard to talk about without causing a ruckus here... So you can look into it yourself for now..
http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/230/Q3/
http://www.oztorah.com/2007/05/a-good-samaritan-ask-the-rabbi/
http://www.beingjewish.com/mesorah/ageoftorah.html
The Samaritans continued to make trouble. When the Persians knuckled under the Macedonians, and Alexander the Great created the Greek empire, they tried to get Alexander to destroy the Holy Temple and kill all the Jews, and they almost succeeded. Even as late as the end of the first century C.E., the Samaritans were still ambushing and murdering Jews. The "good Samaritan" of the Christian bible is not only a myth, it is also a horrible false accusation against the Jews. It was akin to saying that the Nazis were good and the Jews were bad.
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OK so the answer is the evil Christians. Maybe perhaps in the past there were evil fake Christians? Like Obongo the muslim christian. Christians dont need to hate jews. the christian bible has the "Tanach" so we read your books too.
So please don't hate all christians because of groups of evil christians. dont label us.
anyway, the masses really don't even know what a samaritan is. I've heard Chaim use that term a bunch.
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so it looks like it was started by evil people. It has since lost its original meaning anyway. Its become a word that means a good unselfish person.
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OK so the answer is the evil Christians. Maybe perhaps in the past there were evil fake Christians? Like Obongo the muslim christian. Christians dont need to hate jews. the christian bible has the "Tanach" so we read your books too.
So please don't hate all christians because of groups of evil christians. dont label us.
anyway, the masses really don't even know what a samaritan is. I've heard Chaim use that term a bunch.
You obviously don't read a lot of talkbacks or else you will see that Christian antisemitism is not dead. Virtually every day I see it and deal with it. It is disingenuous to suggest that it is I who hate Christians for only pointing out that Jews should not use the term 'Good Samaritan' due to it's antisemitic origins.
Are you suggesting it was evil Christians who wrote the NT? Because this story comes straight from the NT...
I posted this to make Jews aware of this antisemitic canard. Non-Jews can believe or think whatever they want.
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so it looks like it was started by evil people. It has since lost its original meaning anyway. Its become a word that means a good unselfish person.
And you believe the 'wandering Jew' antisemitic canard has lost it's meaning too?
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ACK,
I am not attacking or hating on non-Jews here. I am attempting to alert good Jews to be aware of where these antisemitic ideas come from. We should not use these terms (so too with terms like 'west bank').
To use a Jewish term in place of 'good samaritan' I would use 'Mensche'. A Mensche is a man who stands up and does the right thing in the face of others doing the wrong thing.
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wow. I can't believe I said all that.
Here's one:
Please over interpret the following sentence:
Hello Mike!
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wow. I can't believe I said all that.
Here's one:
Please over interpret the following sentence:
Hello Mike!
Hey ACK... How Ya Doin?
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It is hard to talk about without causing a ruckus here... So you can look into it yourself for now..
So, who is it that started talking about this? :laugh:
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Hey ACK... How Ya Doin?
That's all? Surely there's some hidden meaning in that? Surely you can find some evil hidden meaning?
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A Samaritan is not your neighbor or fellow citizen that helps you when in trouble. A Samaritan is a person that lives in Holon or Shechem that claims to have the real Judaism and brings the "Korban Pesach" on Mount Gerizim rather than on the Temple Mount. The Xtian Bible uses the term Good Samaritan because Samaritans are considered to be bad but a particular one was good. It's like when we say good blacks are an exception to the rule that most blacks are evil and adhere to evil culture.
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Wait a minute... Wouldn't a lot of Jews have had a problem with some of the High Priests and ruling class at that time?
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The story of the good samaritan is either a slander against Jews and Judaism or I suppose one can say it only aims at the corrupt hellenistized priests of that era. Not helping a fellow man in dire need of help is a huge avera. As anyone with even a slight knowledge of judaism should know saving life takes precedence to the other mitzvot.
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"Good Samaritan" does not imply that Samaritans were or are good. It actually implies the opposite, saying the majority were bad, and that there was one among them who was good. Furthermore the Jew in that story is not portrayed as being typical of the Jews, but rather a bad Jew among the Jews. Its similar to when Chaim says that Ted Cruz(a gentile) is better in many respects to Jews such as Diane Feinstein. He isn't saying that all gentiles are good, and he isn't saying all Jews are bad, he is saying thats its ironic that a gentile is acting in a more moral way than a Jew when the Jews are supposed to be the moral example. than I completely disagree with Rabbi Tovia Singer that the story of the Good Samaritan is anti-Semitic. Also lets be honest, 99.9% of people who use the term "Good Samaritan" are not using it in an anti-Semitic way.
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"Good Samaritan" does not imply that Samaritans were or are good. It actually implies the opposite, saying the majority were bad, and that there was one among them who was good. Furthermore the Jew in that story is not portrayed as being typical of the Jews, but rather a bad Jew among the Jews. Its similar to when Chaim says that Ted Cruz(a gentile) is better in many respects to Jews such as Diane Feinstein. He isn't saying that all gentiles are good, and he isn't saying all Jews are bad, he is saying thats its ironic that a gentile is acting in a more moral way than a Jew when the Jews are supposed to be the moral example. than I completely disagree with Rabbi Tovia Singer that the story of the Good Samaritan is anti-Semitic. Also lets be honest, 99.9% of people who use the term "Good Samaritan" are not using it in an anti-Semitic way.
You said it! Read my mind.
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In my mind the Jewish Israelis are todays 'Good Samaritans' as the Israeli government spends a lot to help all the needy around the world. Israel helps when Hurricanes and Earthquakes strike around the world, Israel takes in the wounded Syrians and even treats the wounded arab palestinians. But of course the world will never see it like that, the antisemitism is too much for the nations.
http://www.jta.org/1990/06/26/archive/iran-rejects-disaster-aid-from-israel-but-accepting-help-from-jewish-groups
http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/cyber-safety/c/internet-rumors/sri-lanka-israel-tsunami.html
http://www.israel21c.org/social-action-2/israel-at-forefront-of-tsunami-relief-campaign/
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/humanitarianaid/palestinians/
But the term 'good samaritan' seems inappropriate as the Samaritans were wicked people. I still prefer Mensch..
http://www.oztorah.com/2007/06/being-a-mensch-ask-the-rabbi/
Being a mensch – Ask the Rabbi
Q. What does “being a Mensch” really mean?
A. When you learn the halachah, they tell you about the fifth volume of the Shulchan Aruch (Code of Jewish Law). Joseph Karo wrote four volumes, but there is a further, unwritten book which tells you how to live life as a whole, and it is called, “How to be a Mensch“. A Mensch is defined in “The Joys of Yiddish” (p.240), as “an upright, honorable, decent person (with) character, rectitude, dignity, a sense of what is right, responsible, decorous.”
Abraham Joshua Heschel explains: Man is made in the image of God. This is not mere theology but a guide for practical living. The most nearly divine thing that exists in the world is a human being. As a Mensch, therefore, I must value myself. I mustn’t get too high and mighty and imagine I am God: but neither must I denigrate myself and think I am nothing.
When I appreciate myself and make the most of my potential, then I can learn to love the other person, for they too are made in the image of God. That is what the Torah means in the Golden Rule, “You shall love your neighbour as yourself: I am the Lord” (Lev. 19:18). There are positive ways to love others such as recognising their needs and enhancing their happiness. There are negative ways too – notably, trying to feel and alleviate their pain and gently protecting them even from themselves.
The sages of Yavneh understood Menschlichkeit when they advised everyone to echo these words: “I am God’s creature; my neighbour is also His creature. My work is in the city; his is in the field. I rise early to do my work; he rises early to do his. As he cannot excel in my work, so I cannot excel in his work. Perhaps you say: I do great things, and he does small things? It matters not that a man does much or little, if only he directs his heart to Heaven” (Berachot 17a).
In Jewish life we can do with more Menschlichkeit. Jews of all backgrounds and all points of view are part of the totality of the Jewish people; the Midrash says of the four species of plants taken on Sukkot, that all are held together to denote that all are precious and all have their place in the community.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YyPC41Cl9c
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In my mind the Jewish Israelis are todays 'Good Samaritans' as the Israeli government spends a lot to help all the needy around the world. Israel helps when Hurricanes and Earthquakes strike around the world, Israel takes in the wounded Syrians and even treats the wounded arab palestinians. But of course the world will never see it like that, the antisemitism is too much for the nations.
Muman, this is not something for you to be proud of. Israel acts like a sucker for its worst mortal enemies and all it gets in return is anti-Semitic blood libels if not outright terror. No real right-wing Jew supports Israel bending over backwards for Amalek. What do you think Chaim would say?
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Muman, this is not something for you to be proud of. Israel acts like a sucker for its worst mortal enemies and all it gets in return is anti-Semitic blood libels if not outright terror. No real right-wing Jew supports Israel bending over backwards for Amalek. What do you think Chaim would say?
I am not saying it is right or wrong. I am saying that Israel acts like the worlds 'Good Samaritan' in this respect and gets no credit for doing so. How you suspect I support this kind of Meshugah action can only be explained by your bias against me. What do you think Chaim would say?
The samaritan was really from a very bad people and yet he acted with mercy towards one who disliked him. If you do not see the parallel I can explain more, but I think the analogy is self evident.
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Muman, this is not something for you to be proud of. Israel acts like a sucker for its worst mortal enemies and all it gets in return is anti-Semitic blood libels if not outright terror. No real right-wing Jew supports Israel bending over backwards for Amalek. What do you think Chaim would say?
But they are still doing good and helping the nations weak and suffering, while being spat at. What do you think G-d thinks of that?
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I am not saying it is right or wrong. I am saying that Israel acts like the worlds 'Good Samaritan' in this respect and gets no credit for doing so. How you suspect I support this kind of Meshugah action can only be explained by your bias against me. What do you think Chaim would say?
The samaritan was really from a very bad people and yet he acted with mercy towards one who disliked him. If you do not see the parallel I can explain more, but I think the analogy is self evident.
Totally agree!
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But they are still doing good and helping the nations weak and suffering, while being spat at. What do you think G-d thinks of that?
They are helping evil nations that want to destroy them. I am not pleased with that and if I were an Israeli it would embarrass the snot out of me.
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They are helping evil nations that want to destroy them. I am not pleased with that and if I were an Israeli it would embarrass the snot out of me.
As an example of Israel as the 'good samaritan' it is applicable.
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They are helping evil nations that want to destroy them. I am not pleased with that and if I were an Israeli it would embarrass the snot out of me.
They are helping the people not the nations. This is for you, and I so don't want to say this... What would Jesus have said?
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So you're saying the story and the very term "Good Samaritan" is anti-Semitic but then you say it best applies to Israel? :o
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So you're saying the story and the very term "Good Samaritan" is anti-Semitic but then you say it best applies to Israel? :o
Yeah! Big deal! Knock off the antagonism!!!
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So you're saying the story and the very term "Good Samaritan" is anti-Semitic but then you say it best applies to Israel? :o
No, you did not read what I wrote...
I believe the term IS anti-semitic. I am not alone in this. According to many rabbis and sages the entire 'good samaritan' story was created in order to portray Jews as less than human. This is obviously a false portrayal for reasons which are self-evident to a Jew.
If we were to take the story literally without antisemitism then I would say that Israel, of any nation, should be recognized as this 'good samaritan' but again due to Jew hatred it is not.
Do you understand? I think 'good samaritan' is a slur and if Christianity really recognized the 'good' in man it would accept that Israel demonstrates this kindness daily rather than continuing trying to denigrate it. But it is imposible because according to my research some churches identify this 'good samaritan' as Jessus himself. Of course it would not compute to them that ISRAEL (the firstborn son of Hashem) is also the 'good samaritan'.
And the Lord said to Moses, "When you go to return to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in your hand, but I will harden his heart, so that he shall not let the people go. And you shall say to Pharaoh, 'Thus said the Lord, "Israel is my son, my firstborn. And I say to you, Let my son go, that he may serve me; and if you refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay your son, your firstborn."'" (Exodus 4:21-23)
http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/230/Q3/
The Samaritans often acted as enemies of the Jewish people. They tried to destroy the Temple and to inform against the Jews to Roman authorities. The parable of the "Good Samaritan" was actually an anti-Semitic story intended to discredit the Jews.
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As I said before, I will use the term 'Mensch' when a person acts like a G-dly soul..
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Some of the high priests were corrupt and in bed with the ruling class! Many of the Pharisees were against them along with the Essenes. The whole reason the Essenes left was because of disgust of the ruling Sadducees.
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Some of the high priests were corrupt and in bed with the ruling class! Many of the Pharisees were against them along with the Essenes. The whole reason the Essenes left was because of disgust of the ruling Sadducees.
And how is that relevant to the question of using the term 'Good Samaritan'? Indeed there were corrupt priests, our own Tanakh discusses this. But it is irrelevant to this discussion.
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http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/the_second_temple/
SPIRITUAL VACUUM
Despite Ezra’s efforts (and those of the other leaders) the Temple is spiritually a shadow of its former self.
The returnees from Babylon are not in a position to rebuild the Temple as splendid as Solomon’s. Eventually (circa 30 BCE) it will be rebuilt again by Herod the Great, and made into a spectacular structure, but even though it is going to be physically beautiful, it will be spiritually empty when compared with the First Temple. And even though there are going to be High Priests, the institution will become corrupt.
According to the Talmud, during the First Temple period of about 410 years, there were only 18 High Priests. During the Second Temple period of 420 years, there were more than 300 High Priests! We know (from the Talmud, Yoma 9a) that Yochanan was High Priest for 80 years, Shimon was High Priest for 40 years, and Yishmael ben Pabi was High Priest for 10 years. That means in the remaining 290 years there were at least 300 priests—one every year or so. What accounts for that?
The Talmud tells us that the Holy of Holies was forbidden ground, except for Yom Kippur. On that one day only, the High Priests entered to perform special rites before God. But if he himself was not spiritually pure and unable to focus, he would not be able to stand the intense encounter with God and would die on the spot. We know that during the Second Temple Period a rope had to be tied to the High Priest, so that in case he died, he could be pulled out of the Holy of Holies.
Because the whole High Priesthood was a corrupted institution for most of the Second Temple period, the High Priests died or were replaced every year. (4) And yet people clamored for the job, which went to the highest bidder. So the question has to be asked: If he was going to die on Yom Kippur, who would want the position? One possible answer is that many of the candidates strongly believed that their incorrect Temple service was actually the correct way to do it.(5) That is how bad things go
http://www.aish.com/jl/h/cc/48942446.html
As a result of Herod's interference and the ever-spreading Hellenistic influences among the Jewish upper classes, the Temple hierarchy became very corrupt. The Sadducees, a religious group of the wealthy, who collaborated with the Romans in order to keep their power base, now controlled the Temple, much to the chagrin of the mainstream Jewish majority, the Pharisees, and of the extreme religious minority, the Zealots.
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They are helping the people not the nations. This is for you, and I so don't want to say this... What would Jesus have said?
I wouldn't want my tax dollars going to help Nazis under any circumstances.
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Do you understand? I think 'good samaritan' is a slur and if Christianity really recognized the 'good' in man it would accept that Israel demonstrates this kindness daily rather than continuing trying to denigrate it. But it is imposible because according to my research some churches identify this 'good samaritan' as Jessus himself. Of course it would not compute to them that ISRAEL (the firstborn son of Hashem) is also the 'good samaritan'.
Is Israel so devoid of enemies, that you see a compelling need to start divisions between her allies?
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Is Israel so devoid of enemies, that you see a compelling need to start divisions between her allies?
I am not trying to cause division, although sometimes it seems to me you take things I say as an attack against you and your beliefs. Believe me, I don't agree with your beliefs, but I am 100% sure that I support whatever your believe because my faith doesn't require me to proselytize others. I do believe you are a righteous person at heart because if I didn't I sure would not waste my effort on communicating with you. If I offended you or others I will apologize, but my original intent in this thread was only to shine a spotlight on how such an 'innocent' term like this could have contributed to a form of Jew hatred which lasted for many centuries. I know it requires a lot of patience from non-Jews to hear my opinion, and it may not be pleasant, but be assured I do not hate you, and I do not wish you any malice.
Words do hurt. It is not a Jewish idea 'sticks and stones' and it bothers me just like the term 'West Bank' and 'Al Aqsa'. I do not hold the sons and daughters responsible for misdeeds of the fathers, so long as they regret what happened, and seek to modify their view of the Jewish people accordingly.
Again LSDBR, I greatly appreciate the support of the Christians. I fully realize the reason is based on your belief in the promises of the prophets of the Tanakh. I admire that faith, and as my father told me on several occasions 'A person of faith is more reliable than a person with no faith', and my father was a wise man.
We all are waiting for Moshiach. We disagree about a lot of theological things which I am confident will be revealed at the ultimate revelation. I am primarily concerned with keeping Jewish youth Jewish, and away from any forces which may sway them to leave the nation of Israel through conversion and intermarriage. As I have said many times I am attracted to JTF for the primary reason of Rabbi Kahanes legacy. He speaks my mind in his lectures, and I am working on ways to influence the Jewish people around me.
I hope I have explained something to you and those who suspect my motives.
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One more thing...
I wish more non-Jews would stand up for the Jewish people in the face of disgusting anti-semitic rants on youtube videos, news site comments, talk-backs, what-ever... So many times I see these vile comments going unchallenged. The only place I feel safe from seeing comments like that is on IsraelNationalNews where any antisemitism is met with challenge.
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I signed up for facebook just to be able to comment on IsraelNationalNews (the yahoo method was too flaky)...
I am 'Grateful Kahanist' on facebook.
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I am not trying to cause division, although sometimes it seems to me you take things I say as an attack against you and your beliefs. Believe me, I don't agree with your beliefs, but I am 100% sure that I support whatever your believe because my faith doesn't require me to proselytize others. I do believe you are a righteous person at heart because if I didn't I sure would not waste my effort on communicating with you. If I offended you or others I will apologize, but my original intent in this thread was only to shine a spotlight on how such an 'innocent' term like this could have contributed to a form of Jew hatred which lasted for many centuries. I know it requires a lot of patience from non-Jews to hear my opinion, and it may not be pleasant, but be assured I do not hate you, and I do not wish you any malice.
Words do hurt. It is not a Jewish idea 'sticks and stones' and it bothers me just like the term 'West Bank' and 'Al Aqsa'. I do not hold the sons and daughters responsible for misdeeds of the fathers, so long as they regret what happened, and seek to modify their view of the Jewish people accordingly.
Again LSDBR, I greatly appreciate the support of the Christians. I fully realize the reason is based on your belief in the promises of the prophets of the Tanakh. I admire that faith, and as my father told me on several occasions 'A person of faith is more reliable than a person with no faith', and my father was a wise man.
We all are waiting for Moshiach. We disagree about a lot of theological things which I am confident will be revealed at the ultimate revelation. I am primarily concerned with keeping Jewish youth Jewish, and away from any forces which may sway them to leave the nation of Israel through conversion and intermarriage. As I have said many times I am attracted to JTF for the primary reason of Rabbi Kahanes legacy. He speaks my mind in his lectures, and I am working on ways to influence the Jewish people around me.
I hope I have explained something to you and those who suspect my motives.
Translation: "I have no answer for the fact that evangelicals are more pro-Israel and pro-Jewish than mainstream Jewry, so I have hissyfits about it." :laugh:
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And how is that relevant to the question of using the term 'Good Samaritan'? Indeed there were corrupt priests, our own Tanakh discusses this. But it is irrelevant to this discussion.
It's relevant because... "I" believe the some of the early church fathers were essenes or were influenced by them. The essenes were very anti ruling class. So I could see how a story like this ended up in the NT. So it's not really anti semitic, it's more anti ruling class.
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I signed up for facebook just to be able to comment on IsraelNationalNews (the yahoo method was too flaky)...
I am 'Grateful Kahanist' on facebook.
You are going to get kicked off fb because your name doesn't sound like a real person.