JTF.ORG Forum
Torah and Jewish Idea => Torah and Jewish Idea => Topic started by: mord on September 08, 2007, 09:29:57 PM
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is evil ,devil or just a prosecuter
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G_d's prosecutor like a DA.
G_d's Entrapment artist like a policewoman posing as a hooker who busts you if you ask "How much, luv?"
.......at least that's what I heard on Tovia Singer's show. I stand to be corrected, however.
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G_d's prosecutor like a DA.
G_d's Entrapment artist like a policewoman posing as a hooker who busts you if you ask "How much, luv?"
:laugh: :laugh:good
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I remember asking Chaim about this. He said Satan is a prosecutor, and an implement of God.
I wish I could provide a more in-depth answer.
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I remember asking Chaim about this. He said Satan is a prosecutor, and an implement of G-d.
I wish I could provide a more in-depth answer.
Yes thats what i thought
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Christians interpret the snake in the Genesis creation story to be the devil, but Jews do not.
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So in Judaism, is "satan" just an evil force, and not an actual ruler of hell?
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So in Judaism, is "satan" just an evil force, and not an actual ruler of hell?
No, he works for G_d as an enticer and prosecutor.
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I think satan is known as the "Bad malach" in judaism.
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I personally don't believe that the world makes sense if Satan isn't evil and working against G-d, but, I'll stay out of this discussion so as to prevent a shouting match.
I will leave one thing for people to think on, God created us in his image, why would he include evil inclinations in us?
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I personally don't believe that the world makes sense if Satan isn't evil and working against G-d, but, I'll stay out of this discussion so as to prevent a shouting match.
It still makes sense.
The bitter pill to swallow for those of us raised in the christian tradition is that all the evil inclinations are ours. Not being able to put your lust, hate or desire to murder down to the devil making you do it, but accepting that it came from you alone is the hard part.
Shouting not necessary. :)
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The written Torah says NOTHING about "Satan".
Jews didn't start believing in a spiritual being by the name of "haSatan" (the Adversary or the Opposer) until they encountered the dualistic Zoroastrian religion of the Persians during the Babylonian captivity.
Before that, you'll find human beings refered to as "satan"(s), because the word simply means adversary or opposer.
In other words, "Satan" is the bogeyman of a foreign religion, and has no place in any serious form of Judaism. The Christian myth is also highly dependent on the existence of "Satan", so knowing that the belief in Satan isn't a "Torahic" doctrine helps to expose how false Christianity is.
If anything, Christians have been extremely efficient "satans" to the Jewish people that they have likewise accused of being children of the Devil and offspring of serpents.
(In today's "Bible", the serpent in the garden cannot be identified with Satan the Devil without consulting Christian scripture. In fact, I am encountering more and more people who are beginning to see this standing, talking serpent in a very literal sense. Especially those who believe in the "reptilian" conspiracy.)
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The written Torah says NOTHING about "Satan".
Jews didn't start believing in a spiritual being by the name of "haSatan" (the Adversary or the Opposer) until they encountered the dualistic Zoroastrian religion of the Persians during the Babylonian captivity.
Before that, you'll find human beings refered to as "satan"(s), because the word simply means adversary or opposer.
In other words, "Satan" is the bogeyman of a foreign religion, and has no place in any serious form of Judaism. The Christian myth is also highly dependent on the existence of "Satan", so knowing that the belief in Satan isn't a "Torahic" doctrine helps to expose how false Christianity is.
If anything, Christians have been extremely efficient "satans" to the Jewish people that they have likewise accused of being children of the Devil and offspring of serpents.
(In today's "Bible", the serpent in the garden cannot be identified with Satan the Devil without consulting Christian scripture. In fact, I am encountering more and more people who are beginning to see this standing, talking serpent in a very literal sense. Especially those who believe in the "reptilian" conspiracy.)
Satan was mentioned in Job, which i think was before the time you are referring to
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The written Torah says NOTHING about "Satan".
Jews didn't start believing in a spiritual being by the name of "haSatan" (the Adversary or the Opposer) until they encountered the dualistic Zoroastrian religion of the Persians during the Babylonian captivity.
Before that, you'll find human beings refered to as "satan"(s), because the word simply means adversary or opposer.
In other words, "Satan" is the bogeyman of a foreign religion, and has no place in any serious form of Judaism. The Christian myth is also highly dependent on the existence of "Satan", so knowing that the belief in Satan isn't a "Torahic" doctrine helps to expose how false Christianity is.
If anything, Christians have been extremely efficient "satans" to the Jewish people that they have likewise accused of being children of the Devil and offspring of serpents.
(In today's "Bible", the serpent in the garden cannot be identified with Satan the Devil without consulting Christian scripture. In fact, I am encountering more and more people who are beginning to see this standing, talking serpent in a very literal sense. Especially those who believe in the "reptilian" conspiracy.)
What do you know about "serious forms of judaism". You do not believe judaism.
You even refer to "today`s bible", and put bible in quotes. So, you don`t believe it is the literal word of G-d.
I don`t know or care what you believe, but don`t mislead people by using expressions like "written torah". Or what is and is not a "serious" form of judaism.
--added--
my apologies if I got you wrongly.
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I personally don't believe that the world makes sense if Satan isn't evil and working against G-d, but, I'll stay out of this discussion so as to prevent a shouting match.
I will leave one thing for people to think on, G-d created us in his image, why would he include evil inclinations in us?
Regardless of Satan, Jews believe in the fall of Adam.
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I personally don't believe that the world makes sense if Satan isn't evil and working against G-d, but, I'll stay out of this discussion so as to prevent a shouting match.
I will leave one thing for people to think on, G-d created us in his image, why would he include evil inclinations in us?
Regardless of Satan, Jews believe in the fall of Adam.
There is a christian concept of that name. But Jews have a differenct concept, and would not use the phrase "fall of adam".
The jewish concept, is that for Adam and Eve`s sin, the land was cursed. And man was cursed to work the land to make it produce, and women were cursed with pain of childbirth.
That is just from the text.
That is not the christian fall of Adam concept. Which as I understand it, is that human beings are considered sinners. And are not punished for that or any other sins, because jesus died to clear that and belief in that clears it.
In judaism, Adam and Eve`s sin is not our sin. Anymore than our ancestors sins are our sins. Sure, we may suffer the consequences of them. But they are not our sins. We are not judged for them.
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In judaism, Adam and Eve`s sin is not our sin. Anymore than our ancestors sins are our sins. Sure, we may suffer the consequences of them. But they are not our sins. We are not judged for them.
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Actually it is. Everyone was included in the collective soul of Adam and Eve, and in a way everyone sinned in that respect.
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I disagree, Adam and Eve sinned and we are paying for their sin since we are their decendants, but it is not our sin though since we didn't commit it.
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I disagree, Adam and Eve sinned and we are paying for their sin since we are their decendants, but it is not our sin though since we didn't commit it.
G-d isnt punishing us for their sin. Except for 4 people, everyone else has sinned in one way or another. G-d doesnt just punish the children for their parents sins, expecially something that happened thousands of years ago. So in actuality we are still suffering becuase of our own ways.
This is also connected to the statement that in those in whose generation the Temple isnt rebuilt they are as guilty as destroying the Temple.
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I disagree, Adam and Eve sinned and we are paying for their sin since we are their decendants, but it is not our sin though since we didn't commit it.
G-d isnt punishing us for their sin. Except for 4 people, everyone else has sinned in one way or another. G-d doesnt just punish the children for their parents sins, expecially something that happened thousands of years ago. So in actuality we are still suffering becuase of our own ways.
This is also connected to the statement that in those in whose generation the Temple isnt rebuilt they are as guilty as destroying the Temple.
JDL4EVER will resolve the apparent contradiction. The rule that G-d punishes for only 3-4 generations is for most sins but does not apply for murder and for "super major sins (my term)". How do I know it doesn't apply to murder? Since G-d punished Kain's decendants for him murdering Ebel 7 generations later. How do I know it doesn't apply for super major sins? Because G-d is still punishing us for the sin of the Golden Calf plus also for the sins that led to the destruction of the first temple as indicated numerous times in the writings of the Prophets. You won't find this in any commentary, it's my own derivation.
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I disagree, Adam and Eve sinned and we are paying for their sin since we are their decendants, but it is not our sin though since we didn't commit it.
G-d isnt punishing us for their sin. Except for 4 people, everyone else has sinned in one way or another. G-d doesnt just punish the children for their parents sins, expecially something that happened thousands of years ago. So in actuality we are still suffering becuase of our own ways.
This is also connected to the statement that in those in whose generation the Temple isnt rebuilt they are as guilty as destroying the Temple.
JDL4EVER will resolve the apparent contradiction. The rule that G-d punishes for only 4-5 generations is for most sins but does not apply for murder and for "super major sins (my term)". How do I know it doesn't apply to murder? Since G-d punished Kain's decendants for him murdering Ebel 7 generations later. How do I know it doesn't apply for super major sins? Because G-d is still punishing us for the sin of the Golden Calf plus also for the sins that led to the destruction of the first temple as indicated numerous times in the writings of the Prophets. You won't find this in any commentary, it's my own derivation.
Either way if the children would make proper Tishuva of their own crimes they certainly would not have been punished for their parents sins. G-d is justice and He wouldnt punish an individual for absolutly nothing that they have not done. (unless a few very high Tzaddikim for who make Tikkunim and other things for the people).
We cant blame our forfathers and mothers for our problems- the truth is that we ourselves are more than guilty for what came and is coming for us. We need to change ourselves and our generation and not hold the focus of blame on someting that allready happened generations ago.
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What you write is "wishful thinking" and has no basis in the Torah. Even if the children repent, they are still punished for these sins. That is part of the Torah and some parts of the Torah you do not understand yet.
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What you write is "wishful thinking" and has no basis in the Torah. Even if the children repent, they are still punished for these sins. That is part of the Torah and some parts of the Torah you do not understand yet.
The Torah says that G-d doesnt punish children for their parents sins. (more than 3 or 4 generations), and gives blessings for thousands of generations. - The commentaries say that 3 or 4 generations if the children follow in their parents footsteps and ways and do not make Tishuva.
You might ask- then why is a person born to a rich family, while another is poor, or why os one a Mamzer (bastard) and is in a way discriminated agains't (can marry only another Mamzer, etc.) - That has to do a lot with Gilgulim and the Tikkunim and punishment (for cleaning) that that soul has to go threw.
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Gilgulim and the Tikkunim may not exist as they were recently invented by the Kabbalists with no Torah source so it is not a good answer, the real answer is what I wrote. Also, I am aware what some of the commentators write, but I would modify or read differently what they write to say if the children do repent their is a good possibility of the sins being forgiven but it is not definite in my opinion. The proof is from Kain killing Hevel. Plus from every other case where the righteous suffer for no apparent reason. G-d specifically tells Kain that punishment for his sin will occur in 7 generations with no conditions, G-d did not say "if your decendants repent then I won't punish them". In fact, it was a definite punishment destined to occur if the 7th generation repented or did not repent. And if you tell me that G-d knew that the guy would not repent, then the Torah would still not use such definite language and make us derive wrong information, as every phrase is precious. It would have at least stated that the one who was killed was also a murderer, which is not true. Similarly, we are still being punished for the sin of the Golden Calf (remember the Koehen Gadol can't wear gold on Yom Kippur, why? didn't he repent according to you?) and for the sins that led to the destruction of the Temple, and for the sins of other Jews in our generation, but if most of us repent completely then G-d may have mercy on us and forget about these sins and restore us to our glory.
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q_q_, I seriously doubt you have taken the time to know what I believe.
Next time, bring some support.
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hasatan is the adversary,created to test us a bit like the guy in charlie ans the chocolate factory..the one wyho askes charlie to steal everlasting gobstopper he promises all the wealth and ritchies if he does this thing...ofc he works for mr wonka in the end,its a test remember the book of job hasatan works very strictly to G-ds wishes.implying subservience.
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Gilgulim and the Tikkunim may not exist as they were recently invented by the Kabbalists with no Torah source so it is not a good answer, the real answer is what I wrote. Also, I am aware what some of the commentators write, but I would modify or read differently what they write to say if the children do repent their is a good possibility of the sins being forgiven but it is not definite in my opinion. The proof is from Kain killing Hevel. Plus from every other case where the righteous suffer for no apparent reason. G-d specifically tells Kain that punishment for his sin will occur in 7 generations with no conditions, G-d did not say "if your decendants repent then I won't punish them". In fact, it was a definite punishment destined to occur if the 7th generation repented or did not repent. And if you tell me that G-d knew that the guy would not repent, then the Torah would still not use such definite language and make us derive wrong information, as every phrase is precious. It would have at least stated that the one who was killed was also a murderer, which is not true. Similarly, we are still being punished for the sin of the Golden Calf (remember the Koehen Gadol can't wear gold on Yom Kippur, why? didn't he repent according to you?) and for the sins that led to the destruction of the Temple, and for the sins of other Jews in our generation, but if most of us repent completely then G-d may have mercy on us and forget about these sins and restore us to our glory.
Okay I should take your word and your own made up commentary over the statements and writings of Giants like the ARIZAL, Rav Chaim Vital, Rabbi Moshe Cordovero, the Vilna Gaon, etc. etc. etc.
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Gilgulim and the Tikkunim may not exist as they were recently invented by the Kabbalists with no Torah source so it is not a good answer, the real answer is what I wrote. Also, I am aware what some of the commentators write, but I would modify or read differently what they write to say if the children do repent their is a good possibility of the sins being forgiven but it is not definite in my opinion. The proof is from Kain killing Hevel. Plus from every other case where the righteous suffer for no apparent reason. G-d specifically tells Kain that punishment for his sin will occur in 7 generations with no conditions, G-d did not say "if your decendants repent then I won't punish them". In fact, it was a definite punishment destined to occur if the 7th generation repented or did not repent. And if you tell me that G-d knew that the guy would not repent, then the Torah would still not use such definite language and make us derive wrong information, as every phrase is precious. It would have at least stated that the one who was killed was also a murderer, which is not true. Similarly, we are still being punished for the sin of the Golden Calf (remember the Koehen Gadol can't wear gold on Yom Kippur, why? didn't he repent according to you?) and for the sins that led to the destruction of the Temple, and for the sins of other Jews in our generation, but if most of us repent completely then G-d may have mercy on us and forget about these sins and restore us to our glory.
How do you know that Cain being murdered or his descendents not being mentioned, and eventually being wiped out in the flood. All happing after 7 generations.
How do you know that is Cain`s punishment.
The text does not say that G-d told Cain he or anybody will be punished after 7 generations. If we assume it means generations . It says G-d will punish anybody that kills Cain before 7 generations.
note- one would expect to be punished for murder anyway. But Cain`s mark was a deterrent..
Fine. Nobody kills Cain before 7 generations.
By tradition, lemech killed Cain (hinted at in the text too), He killed him after 7 generations.
Lemech then pleads forgiveness from his wives.
It seems that Lemech is punished in some way.
That no more children of lemech are mentioned, maybe he had no more children, and the Cain family tree is not mentioned. And they will be finished in the flood.
That may not be cain`s punishment.
That may just be their punishment.
Noah was a righteous man , certainly relative to the people of his time. The people at his time were corrupt. Maybe the whole or most of the Cain branch was corrupt. And they were punished for their sins.
Not for Cain`s.
And also. Perhaps Cain being murdered was a natural punishment that was just put off for 7 generations. But I wouldn`t say that Cain`s sin and Cain`s mark was like a protection for his descendents. It is an interesting theory though.
Furthermore.. if somebody is murdered, does that mean it is a punishment? Rabbi Akiva was murdered, and Rabbi Meir Kahane were murdered. Al kiddush hashem. Cain was bad, maybe it was his punishment, or maybe it was just that G-d gives man free will and evil can rule just as good can rule.
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It's interesting that in Sefer HaYasher (The Book of Jasher), Lamech (a descendant of Cain) accidentally kills Cain in the field with a bow and arrow because his sight was bad and he thought Cain was an animal. This is how Cain is punished for killing Abel.
Yes, you have corrected me. I remember reading in a commentary that it was one of Cain's decendents who was killed after 7 generations, but I can't find it and what you write is all I see written; that it was Cain himself who was killed. So I must have made a mistake. If anyone knows if there is such a commentary than let me know. Regardless, Lemach was punished for accidentally killing his forebearer after 7 generations, and if it happened in Biblical times, he would have to run to the city of refuge or a Goel Hadam could kill him. So we see that punishment extends further than 4 generations in regard to murder. Plus, Hashem punishes Israel as a whole and the righteous of a generation are not necessarily excluded from punishment if the majority of Israel is wicked; and G-d is still punishing for the sin of the Golden Calf and for other major sins of this nature. The Rambam never menchans anything about Gilgul or Tikkun, so yes, I do think that those great commentaries made up their own P'shat and that's fine, but don't call it the word of G-d, me and you can also make up our own P'shat if we back it up with Torah, that's all part of the Oral Law.
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It's interesting that in Sefer HaYasher (The Book of Jasher), Lamech (a descendant of Cain) accidentally kills Cain in the field with a bow and arrow because his sight was bad and he thought Cain was an animal. This is how Cain is punished for killing Abel.
Yes, you have corrected me. I remember reading in a commentary that it was one of Cain's decendents who was killed after 7 generations, but I can't find it and what you write is all I see written; that it was Cain himself who was killed. So I must have made a mistake. If anyone knows if there is such a commentary than let me know. Regardless, Lemach was punished for accidentally killing his forebearer after 7 generations, and if it happened in Biblical times, he would have to run to the city of refuge or a Goel Hadam could kill him. So we see that punishment extends further than 4 generations in regard to murder. Plus, Hashem punishes Israel as a whole and the righteous of a generation are not necessarily excluded from punishment if the majority of Israel is wicked; and G-d is still punishing for the sin of the Golden Calf and for other major sins of this nature. The Rambam never menchans anything about Gilgul or Tikkun, so yes, I do think that those great commentaries made up their own P'shat and that's fine, but don't call it the word of G-d, me and you can also make up our own P'shat if we back it up with Torah, that's all part of the Oral Law.
there are 2 lemechs, but we speak of the descendent of Cain.
lemech had tuval cain. tuval cain was 7th gen
the tradition is that lemech , killed tuval cain and cain. It is hinted at in the verse where lemech says he killed an adult and a child.
I have no idea what you are saying about making up pshat. And worse, that making it up is part of the oral tradition.
Many kabbalists claimed to be taught by one or more heavenly teachers. You may accept that, or not.
examples are the ramchal and the ari and the baal shem tov and maybe even the vilna gaon too.
I don`t think it says that was Cain`s punishment. That sounds like a problematic philosophical assumption.
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there are 2 lemechs, but we speak of the descendent of Cain.
lemech had tuval cain. tuval cain was 7th gen
the tradition is that lemech , killed tuval cain and cain. It is hinted at in the verse where lemech says he killed an adult and a child.
I have no idea what you are saying about making up pshat. And worse, that making it up is part of the oral tradition.
Many kabbalists claimed to be taught by one or more heavenly teachers. You may accept that, or not.
examples are the ramchal and the ari and the baal shem tov and maybe even the vilna gaon too.
I don`t think it says that was Cain`s punishment. That sounds like a problematic philosophical assumption.
Cool, so you also learned that Lemach killed a 7th generation decendant; Tubal Cain. Very good. The actual verse is very cryptic though so I see how their can be several different interpretations. I do not accept that the Kabbalists were taught by heavenly teachers and don't accept most of Kabbalah especially when it argues with the Rambam and after the writer of the Zohar's family admitted to him forging the book.
What you think about the oral tradition is what most Charedim think about the Oral Law which is not correct so I'll teach you what it is. There was a basic Oral tradition passed down through Moses probably somewhat similar in scope and size to the Mishnah. In every generation the Oral Law grows through expansion from this basic framework as Moses only transmitted a basic memorize-able framework that all the Torah is based on, it was impossible for him to transmit the entire Oral Law since no one can memorize it. Every generation when me and you (and Rabbis of course, especially arguing in houses of study) use the written Torah with the previous oral Law to expand the Torah, that is part of the growing Oral Law, and that is what the Talmud did. This is what the meaning of the verse in the Prophets "G-d desired for Israel's righteousness that Torah be made numerous and beautiful". Such is the wisdom of the Oral Law and the infinite content of the Torah which as Israel studies it it just grows to infinity. And if you need proof that such is the case and that Rabbis do make up new content not said at Sinai, then look in the beginning of Pirkei D'rebe Eliazer, where R' Shimon Bar Yochai from the Talmud says so specifically.
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The Zohar was written by Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai, anyway which Rabbi do you hold by when you make such claims? (who is your Rabbi?)
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The Zohar was written by Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai, anyway which Rabbi do you hold by when you make such claims? (who is your Rabbi?)
No it was not! This is a lie started by the Kabbalists. The writer of the Zohar was Rabbi Moshe de Leon of the 1200's and he claimed that he copied lost manuscripts that he found from R' Shimon Bar Yochai. However, no one except R' Moshe de Leon has seen these manuscripts and the story is very hard to believe that he discovered hidden manuscripts and no one except himself has seen them. In fact, even the Kabbalists close to the Rabbi claim that the document was never from R' Shimon Bar Yochai and his wife and daugher swore that the Rabbi forged it. This is what I have quoting from a pro Kabbalah site since I don't have the original Sefer that they talk about and you make your own conclusions. "Rabbi Yitzchak of Acco 5010-5100 (1250-1340 CE), a disciple of Ramban (after the latter settled in the Holy Land) and an accomplished kabbalist, decided to examine the question for himself, given the importance of the texts and the gravity of the rumors surrounding its authorship.
The entire account was recorded in Rabbi Yitzchak's Divrei HaYamim, but unfortunately no known manuscripts of this text are extant. Nevertheless, the majority of his account was published in Sefer HaYuchasin (Phillipovski edition, London and Edinburgh 1857) by Rabbi Avraham Zacuto (5185- c. 5275 / 1425- c. 1515 CE), although the conclusions Rabbi Yitzchak reached were not recorded. A paraphrase of the account follows:
Rabbi Yitzchak traveled to Spain, and he met Rabbi Moshe de Leon in Vallidolid. The latter swore under oath that he was in possession of the manuscript written by Rabbi Shimon. He averred that the manuscript was in his hometown of Avila and that he would gladly show it to Rabbi Yitzchak there. They parted company, and on the way back home Rabbi Moshe took ill in Arevalo and died there. Rabbi Yitzchak was extremely upset by this turn of events but decided nevertheless to proceed to Avila. There he found a certain David di PanCorbo who divulged to him that he had clarified without any doubts that the a work called Zohar had never come to be in Rabbi Moshe's possession nor was there any such work in existence.
Rather, Rabbi Moshe had knowledge of the Holy Name by which writing is produced, and this is how he had written the book. He told Rabbi Yitzchak that Rabbi Moshe had written the Zohar and imputed it to Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai in order to extract large sums of money from the wealthy for copies of the manuscript. When he had heard of Rabbi Moshe's passing, he asked a certain very wealthy man, Yosef di Avila to ask his wife to attempt to acquire the manuscript from Rabbi Moshe's widow in exchange for his son marrying her daughter and a promise to support her for the rest of her life. According to David, both the mother and daughter swore that Rabbi Moshe had never possessed such a work. Rather, he had written it "from his head, his heart, his knowledge and intellect." When Mrs. de Leon herself had questioned Rabbi Moshe as to why he claimed to be copying a manuscript (as he would be better off if he told them that he himself had written it), he replied that if he revealed that fact no one would be interested in buying it from him! But if he claimed they were the writings of Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai, they would buy it at a high price.
Rabbi Yitzchak was stunned at these words and found them hard to believe. He traveled on to Talavera where he found a great sage named Rabbi Yosef HaLevi, the son of Rabbi Todros (Abulafia) the kabbalist. Upon making inquires from the latter he was told that without a doubt Rabbi Moshe had in his possession the work called the Zohar written by Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai, and he would make copies of it and distribute them to whomever he pleased [note that nothing about money was mentioned here - Ed.]. Rabbi Yosef then stated that he himself had put Rabbi Moshe to the test. A long time after Rabbi Moshe had given him a copy of many pages of the Zohar, Rabbi Yosef hid a few pages and claimed that he had lost them, and asked Rabbi Moshe for another copy of those pages. Rabbi Moshe requested to see the pages preceding and following the lost sections, and a few days later he provided Rabbi Yosef with an exact copy of the missing pages.
Rabbi Yitzchak decided to continue his investigations and traveled on to Tolitula, where they told him that Rabbi Moshe's chief disciple, a certain Rabbi Yaakov, called heaven and earth to witness that the Zohar that was written by Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai...
Unfortunately, the account in Sefer HaYuchasin ends here since the Rabbi Avraham Zacuto did not find the remainder of the original text.
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Who is your Rabbi? (that you follow and has these views)
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there are 2 lemechs, but we speak of the descendent of Cain.
lemech had tuval cain. tuval cain was 7th gen
the tradition is that lemech , killed tuval cain and cain. It is hinted at in the verse where lemech says he killed an adult and a child.
I have no idea what you are saying about making up pshat. And worse, that making it up is part of the oral tradition.
Many kabbalists claimed to be taught by one or more heavenly teachers. You may accept that, or not.
examples are the ramchal and the ari and the baal shem tov and maybe even the vilna gaon too.
I don`t think it says that was Cain`s punishment. That sounds like a problematic philosophical assumption.
Cool, so you also learned that Lemach killed a 7th generation decendant; Tubal Cain. Very good. The actual verse is very cryptic though so I see how their can be several different interpretations. I do not accept that the Kabbalists were taught by heavenly teachers and don't accept most of Kabbalah especially when it argues with the Rambam and after the writer of the Zohar's family admitted to him forging the book.
What you think about the oral tradition is what most Charedim think about the Oral Law which is not correct so I'll teach you what it is. There was a basic Oral tradition passed down through Moses probably somewhat similar in scope and size to the Mishnah. In every generation the Oral Law grows through expansion from this basic framework as Moses only transmitted a basic memorize-able framework that all the Torah is based on, it was impossible for him to transmit the entire Oral Law since no one can memorize it. Every generation when me and you (and Rabbis of course, especially arguing in houses of study) use the written Torah with the previous oral Law to expand the Torah, that is part of the growing Oral Law, and that is what the Talmud did. This is what the meaning of the verse in the Prophets "G-d desired for Israel's righteousness that Torah be made numerous and beautiful". Such is the wisdom of the Oral Law and the infinite content of the Torah which as Israel studies it it just grows to infinity. And if you need proof that such is the case and that Rabbis do make up new content not said at Sinai, then look in the beginning of Pirkei D'rebe Eliazer, where R' Shimon Bar Yochai from the Talmud says so specifically.
I don`t have the sefer pirkei d`rabbi eliezer, but there is this link (this seems like a non orthodox site)
http://www.shavuot.org/journeys_six.htm
is that it? I don`t see anything there about making up new content.
See a commentary on rashi for the source of the lemech story, it is from Tanchuma and Yalkut Shimoni. These are TRADITIONS. Not INTERPRETATIONS.
Rabbi Dovid Gottlieb of Ohr has a lecture, titled "How to read jewish texts". You can download it online. I am fairly sure that is the one! He refers to the RAMCHAL, a logical philosopher rabbi, who proves with logic, that alot of what some people may think is "interpretation", is not. The traditions exist , and the rabbis are finding Hints to those traditions from the text. Orthodox jews have always claimed that midrashic traditions (and the rest) are from Sinai. And this is midrash.
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My Rabbi is R' Meir Kahane Zs'l and I trust the account of someone who told me that he asked R' Kahane about the Zohar and he replied that he was unsure whether it was really written by R' Shimon Bar Yochai or not. I also trust the account of Rabbi Yitzchak of Acco who investigated the matter when the Zohar was written and found out it was forged. What, you Tzvi don't find it interesting that the guy's wife and daughter swore that the Zohar was forged and their husband and father never had a manuscript?
The web site you offer only has the 1st page of the 100 or so pages in Pirkei D'rebbe Eliazar. The story is one or two pages later and I'll quote it if you want me to.
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My Rabbi is R' Meir Kahane Zs'l and I trust the account of someone who told me that he asked R' Kahane about the Zohar and he replied that he was unsure whether it was really written by R' Shimon Bar Yochai or not. I also trust the account of Rabbi Yitzchak of Acco who investigated the matter when the Zohar was written and found out it was forged. What, you Tzvi don't find it interesting that the guy's wife and daughter swore that the Zohar was forged and their husband and father never had a manuscript?
The web site you offer only has the 1st page of the 100 or so pages in Pirkei D'rebbe Eliazar. The story is one or two pages later and I'll quote it if you want me to.
I do recall both Rav Kahane and his son quoting the Zohar a couple of times in their Seferim- both in Ore Harayon and in the Haggadah Shel Pessah. Anyway with all due respect to Rav Kahane, he no longer is alive with us, so you should get a Rabbi for yourself.
+ I belive and trust Rabbis like the Arizal and the multitude of the Rabbanim who hold the Torah ideas that you unfortunatly think arent Judaism. The Arizal was able to see people and know who they were before and also many many deep interesting things. Also which souls are in leaves or different animals soo many deep secrets upon secrets.
Even if what that person said about Rav Kahane not being sure, that still isnt a good proof becuase its threw a third party asking the Rabbi and the answer being not sure, and not an out right no. In fact I dont belive that their are authentic Rabbis who claim what you claim, just a very few people who limit their knowledge of the Torah only to Tannah and the Talmud. Its like fundamenatalist christians saying that only the literal Bible is authentic without the Talmud.
Your claim about the wife and mother- who ssaid they said that? anyway theirs a good reason a womens testimony isnt accepted and it cant be used as proof ;) .
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I can name for you several respectable Rabbis who reject the teachings of Kabbalah including the famous Rabbi Yaakov Emden who you might have heard of.
Rabbi Saadia Gaon teaches in his book Emunot v'Deot that Jews who believe in reincarnation have adopted a non-Jewish belief. Around the 1230s, Rabbi Meir ben Simon of Narbonne wrote an epistle (included in his Milhhemet Mitzvah) against his contemporaries, the early Kabbalists, characterizing them as blasphemers who even approach heresy. He particularly singled out the Sefer Bahir, rejecting the attribution of its authorship to the tanna R. Nehhunya ben ha-Kanah and describing some of its content as truly heretical.
Rabbi Yaakov Emden, 1697-1776, wrote the book Mitpahhath Sfarim (Scarf/Veil of the Books), a detailed critique of the Zohar in which he concludes that certain parts of the Zohar contain heretical teaching and therefore could not have been written by Rabbi Shimon ben Yochai.
Secondly, it is horrible how brainwashed you are in writing that the Rabbi's wife and daughter are not to be believed because they are female! The rule of testimony only applies to Jewish Court preceedings (such as contracts, punishments and fines) but does not apply at all to investigating the truth of events that have nothing to do with such court preceedings. This case is an investigation into the authorship of the Zohar, and has nothing at all to do with a Jewish Court System and no Court System was ever constructed in these cases so women are believed in this case as well as all investigations of this nature not involving a court. Why would the Rabbis own wife and daughter say that the Rabbi made up the work himself when they were offered large sums of money to show the manuscript? This proves that he made it up. (Even if you personally still don't trust women to prove things in any event, this event should at least almost prove that the guy made it up.) And yes, I do think that many of the Kabbalists believe in stuff bordering on heresy or outright heresy like the Rabbis above stated and I follow the Rambam over anything the Kabbalists say (did u know the zohar says that G-d has several parts which is heresy). And I do believe that many of these stories of the Kabbalists learning with angels are made up as well.
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The Gedolim do not work like a Sanhedrin.
Some rabbis do not agree with the kabbalah post talmud, others do. Most do. Anybody can quote rabbis from either side. Some may accept some aspects of kabbalah and not others.
Rabbi Dovid Gottlieb of Ohr said that it is a principle from the talmud that everybody should have a Rebbe. And if one asked him something, one is bound by their response.
Interestingly, Rabbi Meir Kahane ztl hyd had a rebbe. But he only asked him if he was not sure of something. As a rabbi, with alot of knowledge, he made his own decisions. In his words, his smicha did not come with a telephone number.
A related story was something about some religious jews who followed Kahane refused to come out of some bunker. And they were willing to die there or something. Rabbi Meir Kahane repeatedly asked them "Who is your rabbi". Until they answered him. They said it was him and then followed his advice. He joined them and they protected the bunker for some time. The story is something like that anyway!
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To answer your question, I have not yet found a Rabbi I trust to ask all questions to and to follow on all issues. They are all nothing close to the Rav. I have however found Rabbis that I trust to ask questions on straight forward Halachot that I am not sure on. However, I only asked a few questions as I follow the Rav's advice to only ask questions on things you do not know yourself. Most of the Torah I found to be straight forward, only things I don't have time to study I ask if I need an answer.
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To answer your question, I have not yet found a Rabbi I trust to ask all questions to and to follow on all issues. They are all nothing close to the Rav. I have however found Rabbis that I trust to ask questions on straight forward Halachot that I am not sure on. However, I only asked a few questions as I follow the Rav's advice to only ask questions on things you do not know yourself. Most of the Torah I found to be straight forward, only things I don't have time to study I ask if I need an answer.
I don`t think he advised that to people. He just said that is what he does, since he is a rabbi and he has the knowledge.
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Nope, the Rabbi advised it for all people to follow and got very angry at those who would blindly follow Rabbis.
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Source?
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Everyone needs to learn Torah from someone else, you cant just get everything from a book. For example (Lehavdi) does one become a doctor just by learning from the books? no one has to learn from another docter, and also go threw the practices, just so with us, yes learn from Sefarim and whats written, but a Jew also needs a connection to a Rav/ Tzaddik. Its also written that one learn a lot more in the presence of a Tzaddik (from the Tzaddiks speach) then from a book (not that im making light of books, just pointing out that in reality every Jew has to be connected to one living Rav or another).
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Source?
Be prepared to be blown away:
Written by Rabbi Meir Kahane
(taken from "Perush HaMaccabee", Rabbi Kahane's commentary on the Tanach)
"If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgement. then thou shalt arise , and go up to the place which the lord thy G-d shall choose. and thou shalt do according to the sentence ." (Parshat Shoftim, 17: 8-10)
We can learn out from the words "if there arise a matter too hard for thee.", that if you have a question regarding something you don't know, then you must ask. But if you are certain of the answer, do not ask, but rather make the halachic decision on your own. And it is unfortunate, that today many have become robots without common sense, who turn to the rebbe for everything, turning him into idol worship, so much so, that they disregard any other rabbi, and even turn heretical in disgracing other Torah scholars. And this seems to be what the Ibn Ezra is saying on the verse (11): " 'and you shall observe to do according to all that they inform thee' regarding something too hard for you".
"Be careful, lest you forget the covenant of the Lord your G-d, which he made with you, and you make a carved idol, or the likeness of anything, which the Lord thy G-d has commanded you." (Parshat Vaetchanan, 4:23)
This verse is difficult to understand, for it should say at the end, ".which the Lord thy G-d has forbidden you." It seems that the interpretation is like this: Do not make a carved idol, or the likeness of anything, including of things which G-d commanded us. In other words, don't make idol worship out of things which you admire, such as the Holy Temple, Sefer Torah, or a great rabbi, for this too, is idol worship. This is why the verse continues, "for the Lord is a consuming fire, a jealous G-d". In other words, worship must be exclusive to G-d only; and He will not tolerate any competition or partnership in worship.
"And Asahel pursued Avner, he did not deviate from the right or left from behind Avner" (Shmuel 2, 2:19)
One who pursues a positive goal, it is proper to see it through to the very end, and not deviate from the right or left (as it says in Parshat Shoftim "do not deviate from the right or left"), but adhere to it despite all the difficulties. But such clinging to a goal is only positive when that goal is a positive one -- only then one must cling to the path and not deviate right or left. But if the goal itself is a negative one, of course one must deviate from the evil (as it says, "don't deviate from the right or left, remove yourself from evil" (Mishle, 4:26). And here, Asahel is clinging to a negative goal, by chasing Avner in a war of brother versus brother.
There is a sad and dangerous phenomenon today, and it is: the growing tendency of students relying completely on the rav, or the "gadol", going after him like a blind man in the dark, not deviating right or left -- without the willingness to think for themselves. This personality worship essentially prevents the student from independent thought, and is dangerous for the student and for Judaism. Instead of striving to serve and worship G-d, they accept upon themselves the service of the rebbe, and if he says "white" and tomorrow "black", the student will follow him, and will boast that he obeys his rebbe and adheres to the mitzvah of "not deviating from the right or left". Indeed, this is a dangerous and bitter phenomenon, which turns the Jew from a thinking individual to a robot.
Of course, one must obey the psak halacha of his rav, but when it comes to "hashkafa" (political, world view), one must analyze and think things through, and he must even argue with his rav if something seems incorrect, or he has counter sources. And if he thinks his rav's halachic decision was mistaken, he should approach him and ask him to clarify things, and not just accept it. And even though he must obey the decision as long as his rav sticks to it, it is incumbent upon him, in any case, to pressure his rav, over and over again until either his rav agrees with him, or he is convinced that his rav was indeed correct. And it is a pity that our generation has become one of "mouths that do not speak, eyes that do not see".
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Everyone needs to learn Torah from someone else, you cant just get everything from a book. For example (Lehavdi) does one become a doctor just by learning from the books? no one has to learn from another docter, and also go threw the practices, just so with us, yes learn from Sefarim and whats written, but a Jew also needs a connection to a Rav/ Tzaddik. Its also written that one learn a lot more in the presence of a Tzaddik (from the Tzaddiks speach) then from a book (not that im making light of books, just pointing out that in reality every Jew has to be connected to one living Rav or another).
You are correct and I am searching for a Rav to fully follow on everything in accordance with Pirkei Avot but so far I have not found one to fully follow since there are not Kahanist Rabbis near me. There are very few Rabbis I find worthy of following so far, this is the generation of the dog and I see the decline in Torah wherever I go so it is best to be your own Rabbi if possible since most are not trustworthy and don't know what they are talking about from my experience; especially the Cheredi Rabbis. If you found a good Rabbi then post the name.
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http://www.torahanytime.com/rabbi_tabibov.html - this is my Rabbi- but the problem is that he speaks mainly in Russian when he gives his lectures in shul or on tape/ video. - He can speak in English and actually recently started giving short Dvar Torah's also in English in shul (for younger people to also come in, and becuase theirs one or 2 who cant understand Russian at all), but mainly he speaks in Russian becuase of the many older people who only understand Russia and Bukharian and not too much english.
- Hes my Rabbi because thats where my local shul is, but besides that hes a very great knowledgeable Rabbi.
I also learn from many different Rabbis and lectures and particullarily I love the lectures of Rabbi Mizrahi
http://www.torahanytime.com/rav_mizrachi.html
Divineinformation.com
Your Rabbi should be the Rav of the shul you go to (or your local shul) unless for example your Sefardi and your local shul is only Askenazi (in a situation like that). But for example with Halahot I do learn them anywhere thats reliable (I listin to Sefardi sources for example http://dailyhalacha.com/ and if I hear slightly different by a Bukharian Rav or expecially my Rav then I follow my Rav. - Their are also situations where theirs one opinion and theirs a stricter but not necessarily an obligatory thing to do, then you can choose to follow the accepted or the stricter opinion if you like.
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Here is an excerpt from the Torah classic "The Way of G-d" by Moshe Chaim Luzzatto (also known as the RAMCHAL).
All these refer to the system of direction devised by G-d. The angels who are given the task of overseeing and testifying about every aspect of the universe are called "the eyes of G-d." When G-d reveals Himself in one of these deliberating bodies to judge a particular case, as He did with respect to the builders of the Tower of Bavel, the Torah states that "G-d came down to see." The same is true in all similar cases.
It is important to realize, however, that the parallel between these concepts and an earthly judiciary only refers to the system. The manner in which these things are done, on the other hand, is actually not the same. For among physical beings, things are done in one way, in accordance with their perception and Essence. while among spiritual beings things are done in a different way, in accordance with their perception and Essence. [Therefore, the entire mode of operation of the two is very different.]
G-d also appointed a prosecutor, know as the Satan. Scripture mentions him when it says (Iyov 1:6), "The day came when the sons of G-d arrived to present themselves before G-d, and the Satan also came among them."
The function of the Satan is to seek judgment before these tribunals and bring action alerting the [heavenly] court to sit in judgment. This is also a result of G-d's goodness, since even though a person's sins are known to G-d, he is not brought to judgment until he is indicted [and arraigned] by this Prosecutor.
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Source?
Be prepared to be blown away:
Written by Rabbi Meir Kahane
(taken from "Perush HaMaccabee", Rabbi Kahane's commentary on the Tanach)
<snip>
great. What is the Web source for that?
I am interested in where to find more of peirush hamaccabi in english.
Did you write the translation yourself and post it here?
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I Chronicles 21:1
Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.
I Kings 22:19-23
19 Micaiah continued, "Therefore hear the word of the LORD : I saw the LORD sitting on his throne with all the host of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left.
20 And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?'
"One suggested this, and another that.
21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.'
22 " 'By what means?' the LORD asked.
" 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said.
" 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'
23 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."
Devils Fighting With Angel Gabriel & Michael:
Daniel 10:21-21
20 So he said, "Do you know why I have come to you? Soon I will return to fight against the prince of Persia, and when I go, the prince of Greece will come;
21 but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince.
Daniel 10:12-13
12 Then he continued, "Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them.
13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.
The Prince of Persia was not the human king of Persia but rather a satanic angel who was the "area commander" for the persian empire in the spirit world. He opposed angel Gabriel from bringing answer from heaven.
Christian belive that Lucifer the former arch angel led one third of the angelic hosts into rebellion in heaven and they were cast out of heaven by God. Then Lucifer established his head quarters in the mid heaven with his evil angels. That is the reason saints experience delays in getting answers for prayers. Prophet Daniel had to persist in praying which enabled angel Gabriel to reach earth. Lucifer's squad has 4 different ranks.
1. Rulers,
2.Authorities
3. Powers of this dark world
4. The spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms
Only angels with corresponding rank can defeat the corresponding devils. The more intense our prayer the higher the order of the (God's) angel despatched to help us.
All these evil spirits operate in the second heaven (planning and conspiring against God and human race). On the earth they have demonic agents often called disembodied spirits who existed before Adam and Eve. God destroyed that world before creating Adam and Eve. That was the reason the earth was void and formless. These disembodies spirits attack and occupy human beings and make them to do wicked deeds. They also cause sickness and other infirmities. They are eathbound creatures getting instructions from the satanic angels in the second heaven.
I am curious to know what Judaism teaches about the above verses!
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From what I understand, the English translation of the Torah is a terrible thing to use when dealing with this subject. There are numerous words translated in this and each one means something different. I wish my Hebrew was better.
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From what I understand, the English translation of the Torah is a terrible thing to use when dealing with this subject. There are numerous words translated in this and each one means something different. I wish my Hebrew was better.
all the translations are all quite bad on everything, and my hebrew is terrible. But I know because there is a way to get the right translation of hebrew words!!
The same way that tralsnators have. A CONCORDANCE!
There is a piece of christian software I acquired, called "Bible Desktop"
It is fantastic.. You click a hebrew word, and all occurrences come up, and you can see the trananslation given and context of each.. You see how bad the translations are.. You can also search for roots, using wildcards like
*bra* as in create.
An example of its brilliant use,,
Beraishit, if you look for othe occurrences, you see that Rashi is right, it means In the beginning Of. The other occurrence is Beraishit malchut which means in the beginning of the reign of. So the first verse can be translated as In the beginning of G-d creating the heaven and the earth. Or as In the beginning of G-d`s creation of the heaven and the earth.
A mistralsnation I spotted was BIRDS we always learn that G-d created the fishand the birds on day 5. But if you look up the hebrew word "off" translated as birds, you see it refers to 4 winged insects, so e.g. FLIES. Of course, flies were created in day 5. Another translation is fowl , which is some biological classification, which is even worse. A proper translation for "off", is "Flying things".
Another translation I have refers to things that crawl in the water. When it is not. It is things that MOVE in the water.
If you want to get each word perfectly translated, it would take a while. But for specific words you are interested in, it is perfect.
One thing which my rabbi - an orthodox rabbi - mentioned, was BDB (he mentioned it in shul and is quite strict and doesn`t like saying things of other religions in shul.. I stupidly expanded it "brown driver briggs", I should have just nodded. Anyhow, he said some people consider it apikorus/forbidden kind of thing, because of its authors, but it is good. It has all the roots and translations.
If an orthodox rabbi recommends something done by a christian, then it must be exceptionally good!!!!! And it means he knows of no jewish equivalent unfortunately. I have heard 2 rabbis recommend it.. one I trust alot, and he would not recommend something unless he thought its contents was kosher.
There is also another christian thing, a guy called Gesenius who wrote something about the translation of hebrew words in Genesis. A jewish thing, which is a very very authoritative book, is the Even Shoshan concordance. But it has no english.
I highly recommend "bible desktop".
it is more convenient than any of those books.
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From what I understand, the English translation of the Torah is a terrible thing to use when dealing with this subject. There are numerous words translated in this and each one means something different. I wish my Hebrew was better.
The Artscroll and Kehot translations are probably the two most accurate ones.
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From what I understand, the English translation of the Torah is a terrible thing to use when dealing with this subject. There are numerous words translated in this and each one means something different. I wish my Hebrew was better.
The Artscroll and Kehot translations are probably the two most accurate ones.
I would add, a linear translation of the chumash that I Have. By Rabbi Pesach Goldberg, published by Feldheim. As people may know. Feldheim is very good, and logically speaking, one would expect a linear translation to have been done with care.. It seems to be geared towards children, but that may be good, because the words in biblical hebrew are simple, and should not require complex english words.
if it is only certain words that one has issue with, then the most accurate translation is the one you do yourself.
Another example of bad translations..
G-d regretted having created man..
I wondered and wondered...
When say say G-d was angry, that means angry in a way befitting a creator, of course, and it is metaphorical, of course. But it is not a weakness.
Regretted is a human weakness... How is that befitting the creator.
One would resolve it by saying G-d acted in a way similar to how a person would have reacted if he were to regret. (just as when G-d is angry).
But there is actually a more direct answer to this problem.. It does not say regret.
I recall, looking at bible desktop, the word appeared elsewhere and was translated as Jacob being comforted.
Regret and comfort?!!!
The answer is, this is figured out
in Rabbi shimshon rephael hirsch`s etymological dictionary of biblical hebrew.. the word nechama , or its root, means *change of emotion* . like a polar reversal. If you were angry, then are now pleased. If you were pleased, then are now angry..
So it simply means that G-d`s attitude towards the people changed, obviously as a result of their sins.
See.. All these translations of the whole tenach. Are bad.. Sure, some are better than others. But you are not getting an accurate translation.
If you have specific words you wonder about, you can do it yourself easily...
Bible desktop,
and what helps also, Rabbi Shimshon Rephael Hirsch`s etymological dictionary of biblical hebrew.
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From what I understand, the English translation of the Torah is a terrible thing to use when dealing with this subject. There are numerous words translated in this and each one means something different. I wish my Hebrew was better.
The Artscroll and Kehot translations are probably the two most accurate ones.
I would add, a linear translation of the chumash that I Have. By Rabbi Pesach Goldberg, published by Feldheim. As people may know. Feldheim is very good, and logically speaking, one would expect a linear translation to have been done with care.. It seems to be geared towards children, but that may be good, because the words in biblical hebrew are simple, and should not require complex english words.
if it is only certain words that one has issue with, then the most accurate translation is the one you do yourself.
Another example of bad translations..
G-d regretted having created man..
I wondered and wondered...
When say say G-d was angry, that means angry in a way befitting a creator, of course, and it is metaphorical, of course. But it is not a weakness.
Regretted is a human weakness... How is that befitting the creator.
One would resolve it by saying G-d acted in a way similar to how a person would have reacted if he were to regret. (just as when G-d is angry).
But there is actually a more direct answer to this problem.. It does not say regret.
I recall, looking at bible desktop, the word appeared elsewhere and was translated as Jacob being comforted by getting married, after his sadness from his mother`s death.
Regret and comfort?!!!
The answer is, this is figured out
in Rabbi shimshon rephael hirsch`s etymological dictionary of biblical hebrew.. the word nechama , or its root, means *change of emotion* . If not a polar reversal, then a negation at least. Anger becomes Pleasure and vice versa. Sadness becomes Happyness. Or rather, Anger becomes not anger. Sadness becomes not sad..
So it simply means that G-d`s attitude towards the people changed, obviously as a result of their sins.
See.. All these translations of the whole tenach. Are bad.. Sure, some are better than others. But you are not getting an accurate translation.
If you have specific words you wonder about, you can do it yourself easily...
Bible desktop,
and what helps also, Rabbi Shimshon Rephael Hirsch`s etymological dictionary of biblical hebrew.
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Well, I knew it was a translation problem because I had heard about this before... then I remembered where I heard it:
Judaism and Christianity on Satan: Why we Differ
by Rabbi Tovia Singer
http://outreachjudaism.org/mp3/Satan.mp3 (http://outreachjudaism.org/mp3/Satan.mp3)
You gotta love Rabbi Tovia Singer!
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Well, I knew it was a translation problem because I had heard about this before... then I remembered where I heard it:
Judaism and Christianity on Satan: Why we Differ
by Rabbi Tovia Singer
http://outreachjudaism.org/mp3/Satan.mp3 (http://outreachjudaism.org/mp3/Satan.mp3)
You gotta love Rabbi Tovia Singer!
I mailed about a mistake on his webpage: the word 'Krestalnacht' should be 'Kristallnacht'.
i down loaded all mp3s on the site, but haven't had time to listen to them.