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Save Western Civilization => Save America => Topic started by: Ehud on September 13, 2007, 06:48:12 PM

Title: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Ehud on September 13, 2007, 06:48:12 PM
Today I was handed an anti-abortion flyer as I was walking to catch and bus and I was reading some facts concerning when the different body parts of a fetus develop, how early the heart starts beating, how early the fetus responds to touch etc. and then I came upon fact number ten which is something like this:

80% of planned parenthood clinics are located in minority communities.  Then they provided a website called blackgenocide.org which says this on the front page:

 "The purpose of this website is to reveal the disproportionate number of black babies exterminated by the abortion industry in America.

Although black women constitute only 6% of the population, they comprise 36% of the abortion industry’s clientele. The leading abortion providers have chosen to exploit blacks by locating 94% of their abortuaries in urban neighborhoods with high black populations.

This high rate of abortion has decimated the black family and destroyed black neighborhoods to the detriment of society at large."

This group actually blames the high rate of abortion for destroying the black families and neighborhoods, rather than blacks' family values, family planning skills, disrespect for the institution of marriage, crime, welfare, laziness etc. 

Isn't the fact that so many black women decide to have abortions a good thing?  They already have so many children that they can not afford to take care of, and they already rely to such a large extent on welfare, so wouldn't outlawing abortion be a catastrophe for the black community and the entire United States? 

Most of the black women who get abortions are not capable of coming to reasoned decision on whether they should get pregnant or not given their financial situation.  If abortion is made illegal, the fact that they will be required to carry a pregnancy to term will not act as any sort of incentive for safe sex or preventing pregnancies because most blacks are not capable of being deterred from having children in any way.  They are already are so poor, have such a low marriage rate with such a low amount of financial support from husbands, and they are popping out babies at such high rates which creates such a tremendous drain on our welfare system and taxes.  Do we really want to outlaw abortion for black women?  Think of how catastrophic the situation would be, they would be in even worse poverty, and the children would be even more neglected, creating an even more destitute and crime-ridden black underclass.  This would be devastating for blacks and devastating for EVERYONE.

If abortion was made illegal, would you be willing to accept these consequences?  Would you be able to accept that a huge chunk of the women who are forced to keep their babies would be black?  It would be like a state-sanctioned population EXPLOSION.

What are your feelings on this?
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Joe Schmo on September 13, 2007, 06:52:00 PM
Most aborted babies were/are white.

This is a debate for 1977, not 2007.  Its far too late now to worry about abortion. 
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Ehud on September 13, 2007, 06:56:47 PM
Most aborted babies were/are white.

This is a debate for 1977, not 2007.  Its far too late now to worry about abortion. 

Yeah, I understand that.  But the proportion of blacks who would be forced to keep their babies is higher than whites.  If abortion was made illegal the white population would grow, of course, but the black and minority growth rate would be much higher (it already is but the rate would increase even more), adding to a higher percentage of blacks and minorities in the U.S.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: newman on September 13, 2007, 07:03:32 PM
On the subject of abortion overall, there are more important things for people of religion to worry about. Why do fundamentalist groups fixate on aboortion when muslims are trying to kill us and our countries are being flooded with third world sewage?

Regarding black abortions, I think they're a good idea. The LAST thing a decent society needs is MORE; bastard babies, criminals, rappers, rapists, muggers, drug dealears, welfare moms, crack hos and those with low IQs.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: kellymaureen on September 13, 2007, 07:05:57 PM
Yes, and if that happens, someone will have to pay for the upkeep of all those extra children...you guessed it, the taxpayers, you and I. >:(
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Ehud on September 13, 2007, 07:11:02 PM
On the subject of abortion overall, there are more important things for people of religion to worry about. Why do fundamentalist groups fixate on aboortion when muslims are trying to kill us and our countries are being flooded with third world sewage?

Regarding black abortions, I think they're a good idea. The LAST thing a decent society needs is MORE; bastard babies, criminals, rappers, rapists, muggers, drug dealears, welfare moms, crack hos and those with low IQs.

If it was up to me I would make abortions illegal for white people after 2 months, but I would set up easily accessible and free abortion clinics for blacks and other minorities.  I think this is actually a very good social policy that would be good for the United States.  I would frame it as a measure that was kept only for black people out of compassion for them and in order to cut down on their poverty, crime, dependence on welfare, etc.  It would be one of their "rights" to have abortions, and if this law was in effect, they WOULD STILL take advantage of it.

I know this would never happen but I think it would be a good social planning policy. 

I have other ideas too like setting up legal battlezones for gang members.  THey would be given free automatic weapons and free crack and speed and then they would just go at it against each other until they killed each other off.     
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Joe Schmo on September 13, 2007, 07:13:44 PM
I have other ideas too like setting up legal battlezones for gang members.  They would be given free automatic weapons and free crack and speed and then they would just go at it against each other until they killed each other off.     

That would make a great reality tv program.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: newman on September 13, 2007, 07:18:38 PM


If it was up to me I would make abortions illegal for white people after 2 months, but I would set up easily accessible and free abortion clinics for blacks and other minorities.  I think this is actually a very good social policy that would be good for the United States.  I would frame it as a measure that was kept only for black people out of compassion for them and in order to cut down on their poverty, crime, dependence on welfare, etc.  It would be one of their "rights" to have abortions, and if this law was in effect, they WOULD STILL take advantage of it.

I know this would never happen but I think it would be a good social planning policy. 

I have other ideas too like setting up legal battlezones for gang members.  THey would be given free automatic weapons and free crack and speed and then they would just go at it against each other until they killed each other off.     

Just thinking of how belligerent they are, What we need to do is have some white group start a bogus campaign to stop black abortion. All the belligerent 'Braziiiiiiillias' would turn around and say " Ain' no cracker gonna tells me what I'm's doin'!! I'm havin me an abortion right now! mmmm hmmm"

Great idea about the gang banga zones, BTW.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Ehud on September 13, 2007, 10:48:49 PM
I'm against abortion in all cases except in the case of the Muslim religious affiliation of the mother.

What about the religious affiliation of the father who will force his wife and child to convert to Islam?  Most of the time that's what Muslim fathers do when they trick a woman into mating with them.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: newman on September 14, 2007, 10:03:19 PM
Chaim said abortions are permitted for blacks because the babies are rodfim since a great number of them will grow up to be criminals.


A black abortion is just crime prevention.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 14, 2007, 10:16:16 PM
Chaim said abortions are permitted for blacks because the babies are rodfim since a great number of them will grow up to be criminals.


A black abortion is just crime prevention.
::) That is the most heartless post I've ever read from you...and you've said some stupid things newman. Just because black kids are born you are saying they're predisposed to violence?
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: mosquewatch on September 14, 2007, 10:22:20 PM
What is the difference between a "black fetus" and a "white baby" ? Skin color ? Is a baby no more of a human being simply of the color of its skin ? I'm not for abortion, it's murder. IMHO.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: newman on September 14, 2007, 10:25:12 PM
Chaim said abortions are permitted for blacks because the babies are rodfim since a great number of them will grow up to be criminals.


A black abortion is just crime prevention.
::) That is the most heartless post I've ever read from you...and you've said some stupid things newman. Just because black kids are born you are saying they're predisposed to violence?
Yes.

And laziness, dishonesty, immorallity and drug addiction.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 14, 2007, 10:38:06 PM
Chaim said abortions are permitted for blacks because the babies are rodfim since a great number of them will grow up to be criminals.


A black abortion is just crime prevention.
::) That is the most heartless post I've ever read from you...and you've said some stupid things newman. Just because black kids are born you are saying they're predisposed to violence?
Yes.

And laziness, dishonesty, immorallity and drug addiction.
You're a hateful person. period. In that case every black child born would be experiencing this newman.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: newman on September 14, 2007, 10:51:27 PM
Chaim said abortions are permitted for blacks because the babies are rodfim since a great number of them will grow up to be criminals.


A black abortion is just crime prevention.
::) That is the most heartless post I've ever read from you...and you've said some stupid things newman. Just because black kids are born you are saying they're predisposed to violence?
Yes.

And laziness, dishonesty, immorallity and drug addiction.
(http://aycu23.webshots.com/image/28222/2005344795837890048_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005344795837890048)
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 14, 2007, 10:56:39 PM
Chaim said abortions are permitted for blacks because the babies are rodfim since a great number of them will grow up to be criminals.


A black abortion is just crime prevention.
::) That is the most heartless post I've ever read from you...and you've said some stupid things newman. Just because black kids are born you are saying they're predisposed to violence?
Yes.

And laziness, dishonesty, immorallity and drug addiction.
(http://aycu23.webshots.com/image/28222/2005344795837890048_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005344795837890048)

I hope you get banned for that, newman..it was really uncalled for. How about "Arrest Newman before he procreates... Bigotry is contagious".
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: newman on September 14, 2007, 11:55:55 PM
I hope you get banned for that, newman..it was really uncalled for. How about "Arrest Newman before he procreates... Bigotry is contagious".
Can't you play any other tunes?(http://aycu02.webshots.com/image/29081/2002228278294102113_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2002228278294102113)

Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: newman on September 15, 2007, 12:07:00 AM
I hope you get banned for that, newman..it was really uncalled for. How about "Arrest Newman before he procreates... Bigotry is contagious".
Can't you play any other tunes?(http://aycu02.webshots.com/image/29081/2002228278294102113_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2002228278294102113)



Those that say "Black is Beautiful" have obviously not seen this picture.
Or this:

(http://aycu04.webshots.com/image/27963/2002852054062086701_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2002852054062086701)

Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: nessuno on September 15, 2007, 12:45:43 AM
That's funny!  ;D
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 01:19:13 AM
That's funny!  ;D
Although making fun of someone's drunken state (as well as that horrid costume she's wearing), is funny... saying that black babies should be arrested just for being black is stupid. And beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I was thinking about stooping to your level and posting pictures of Jewish stereotypes, but when I checked them out, it really made me sad. I'd feel bad about posting images of Jews that weren't true, let alone insensitive and hurtful. So I have nothing. Keep bashing blacks for eating fried chicken, post a few pictures of watermelons if you'd like. All of this stupidity about what makes a black person evil (food wise) is just crazy.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Ehud on September 15, 2007, 02:15:50 AM
That's funny!  ;D
Although making fun of someone's drunken state (as well as that horrid costume she's wearing), is funny... saying that black babies should be arrested just for being black is stupid. And beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I was thinking about stooping to your level and posting pictures of Jewish stereotypes, but when I checked them out, it really made me sad. I'd feel bad about posting images of Jews that weren't true, let alone insensitive and hurtful. So I have nothing. Keep bashing blacks for eating fried chicken, post a few pictures of watermelons if you'd like. All of this stupidity about what makes a black person evil (food wise) is just crazy.

You're right, newman saying that black babies should be arrested for being black is very stupid.  They should be aborted before to prevent that.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 02:18:16 AM
That's funny!  ;D
Although making fun of someone's drunken state (as well as that horrid costume she's wearing), is funny... saying that black babies should be arrested just for being black is stupid. And beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I was thinking about stooping to your level and posting pictures of Jewish stereotypes, but when I checked them out, it really made me sad. I'd feel bad about posting images of Jews that weren't true, let alone insensitive and hurtful. So I have nothing. Keep bashing blacks for eating fried chicken, post a few pictures of watermelons if you'd like. All of this stupidity about what makes a black person evil (food wise) is just crazy.

You're right, newman saying that black babies should be arrested for being black is very stupid.  They should be aborted before to prevent that.
Yet your parents allowed you to live...
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Ehud on September 15, 2007, 02:21:19 AM
That's funny!  ;D
Although making fun of someone's drunken state (as well as that horrid costume she's wearing), is funny... saying that black babies should be arrested just for being black is stupid. And beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I was thinking about stooping to your level and posting pictures of Jewish stereotypes, but when I checked them out, it really made me sad. I'd feel bad about posting images of Jews that weren't true, let alone insensitive and hurtful. So I have nothing. Keep bashing blacks for eating fried chicken, post a few pictures of watermelons if you'd like. All of this stupidity about what makes a black person evil (food wise) is just crazy.

You're right, newman saying that black babies should be arrested for being black is very stupid.  They should be aborted before to prevent that.
Yet your parents allowed you to live...

But I'm not black, what's your point?

When an unmarried welfare queen who doesn't know how to take care of her children gives birth to her 6th child, there's a substantially large percentage that that baby will become a criminal or otherwise unproductive member of society.  That's a lot different than a married couple who gives birth to a child fully intending on raising him to the best of their ability and with the means to do so.  Surely you can see the difference.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 02:28:06 AM
That's funny!  ;D
Although making fun of someone's drunken state (as well as that horrid costume she's wearing), is funny... saying that black babies should be arrested just for being black is stupid. And beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I was thinking about stooping to your level and posting pictures of Jewish stereotypes, but when I checked them out, it really made me sad. I'd feel bad about posting images of Jews that weren't true, let alone insensitive and hurtful. So I have nothing. Keep bashing blacks for eating fried chicken, post a few pictures of watermelons if you'd like. All of this stupidity about what makes a black person evil (food wise) is just crazy.

You're right, newman saying that black babies should be arrested for being black is very stupid.  They should be aborted before to prevent that.
Yet your parents allowed you to live...

But I'm not black, what's your point?

When an unmarried welfare queen who doesn't know how to take care of her children gives birth to her 6th child, there's a substantially large percentage that that baby will become a criminal or otherwise unproductive member of society.  That's a lot different than a married couple who gives birth to a child fully intending on raising him to the best of their ability and with the means to do so.  Surely you can see the difference.
My point is that you turned out to be just as evil as those evil blacks without having to rob, kill or rape anyone. Hating an entire race of newborn babies who don't know from violence. All newborns know is that they're hungry and that they need someone to hold onto. There are plenty of unmarried couples with children who are doing just fine and are NOT collecting welfare or robbing and killing anyone. You and newman both have a one-sided way of thinking. No wonder things aren't going your way. Hateful people never prosper.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Ehud on September 15, 2007, 02:36:52 AM
That's funny!  ;D
Although making fun of someone's drunken state (as well as that horrid costume she's wearing), is funny... saying that black babies should be arrested just for being black is stupid. And beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I was thinking about stooping to your level and posting pictures of Jewish stereotypes, but when I checked them out, it really made me sad. I'd feel bad about posting images of Jews that weren't true, let alone insensitive and hurtful. So I have nothing. Keep bashing blacks for eating fried chicken, post a few pictures of watermelons if you'd like. All of this stupidity about what makes a black person evil (food wise) is just crazy.

You're right, newman saying that black babies should be arrested for being black is very stupid.  They should be aborted before to prevent that.
Yet your parents allowed you to live...

But I'm not black, what's your point?

When an unmarried welfare queen who doesn't know how to take care of her children gives birth to her 6th child, there's a substantially large percentage that that baby will become a criminal or otherwise unproductive member of society.  That's a lot different than a married couple who gives birth to a child fully intending on raising him to the best of their ability and with the means to do so.  Surely you can see the difference.
My point is that you turned out to be just as evil as those evil blacks without having to rob, kill or rape anyone. Hating an entire race of newborn babies who don't know from violence. All newborns know is that they're hungry and that they need someone to hold onto. There are plenty of unmarried couples with children who are doing just fine and are NOT collecting welfare or robbing and killing anyone. You and newman both have a one-sided way of thinking. No wonder things aren't going your way. Hateful people never prosper.

I turned out to be as evil as blacks who rob, rape or kill people?  WOW.  I don't hate an entire race of newborn babies.  I would like for a mother who is unable to take proper care of her child to get an abortion, whether she be white, black, or whatever else.  It just happens that blacks give birth 70% out of wedlock and they tend not to raise their children in the best way and many of their children end up becoming criminals or unproductive members of society, that's why I support that if that is the case they get abortions in order for the good of society.  If you are white and are going to raise your child with a substantially large percentage that he will be a criminal or otherwise undesirable person I would urge for abortion in that situation too.  Let's be honest, the way blacks have and raise their children puts them at a far greater risk for becoming like this than any other segment of the population, hence my support for more abortions for black people.  Makes sense right?  I have no problem with blacks having babies if it is done within the institution of marriage and the parents intend on raising the child to the best of their ability.  In fact I applaud that and wish that all children were fortunate enough to be born into that situation.  The problem is that most black babies are not.  Think of the misery that these children will go through because of their negligent "parents".  It's about child welfare as well.

Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 02:58:37 AM
That's funny!  ;D
Although making fun of someone's drunken state (as well as that horrid costume she's wearing), is funny... saying that black babies should be arrested just for being black is stupid. And beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I was thinking about stooping to your level and posting pictures of Jewish stereotypes, but when I checked them out, it really made me sad. I'd feel bad about posting images of Jews that weren't true, let alone insensitive and hurtful. So I have nothing. Keep bashing blacks for eating fried chicken, post a few pictures of watermelons if you'd like. All of this stupidity about what makes a black person evil (food wise) is just crazy.

You're right, newman saying that black babies should be arrested for being black is very stupid.  They should be aborted before to prevent that.
Yet your parents allowed you to live...

But I'm not black, what's your point?

When an unmarried welfare queen who doesn't know how to take care of her children gives birth to her 6th child, there's a substantially large percentage that that baby will become a criminal or otherwise unproductive member of society.  That's a lot different than a married couple who gives birth to a child fully intending on raising him to the best of their ability and with the means to do so.  Surely you can see the difference.
My point is that you turned out to be just as evil as those evil blacks without having to rob, kill or rape anyone. Hating an entire race of newborn babies who don't know from violence. All newborns know is that they're hungry and that they need someone to hold onto. There are plenty of unmarried couples with children who are doing just fine and are NOT collecting welfare or robbing and killing anyone. You and newman both have a one-sided way of thinking. No wonder things aren't going your way. Hateful people never prosper.

I turned out to be as evil as blacks who rob, rape or kill people?  WOW.  I don't hate an entire race of newborn babies.  I would like for a mother who is unable to take proper care of her child to get an abortion, whether she be white, black, or whatever else.   It just happens that blacks give birth 70% out of wedlock and they tend not to raise their children in the best way and many of their children end up becoming criminals or unproductive members of society, that's why I support that if that is the case they get abortions in order for the good of society.  If you are white and are going to raise your child with a substantially large percentage that he will be a criminal or otherwise undesirable person I would urge for abortion in that situation too.  Let's be honest, the way blacks have and raise their children puts them at a far greater risk for becoming like this than any other segment of the population, hence my support for more abortions for black people.  Makes sense right?  I have no problem with blacks having babies if it is done within the institution of marriage and the parents intend on raising the child to the best of their ability.  In fact I applaud that and wish that all children were fortunate enough to be born into that situation.  The problem is that most black babies are not.  Think of the misery that these children will go through because of their negligent "parents".  It's about child welfare as well.


But you weren't saying what I bolded, earlier. You were singing the same song newman was/ is singing. By wishing that black mothers would abort their children to prevent crimes from happening down the line would mean that you dont' want anyone to improve or be better than the negative blacks before them.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: newman on September 15, 2007, 03:48:02 AM


But I'm not black, what's your point?

When an unmarried welfare queen who doesn't know how to take care of her children gives birth to her 6th child, there's a substantially large percentage that that baby will become a criminal or otherwise unproductive member of society.  That's a lot different than a married couple who gives birth to a child fully intending on raising him to the best of their ability and with the means to do so.  Surely you can see the difference.
My point is that you turned out to be just as evil as those evil blacks without having to rob, kill or rape anyone.

Typical Erica/ liberal moral equivelence.

She now equates people who object to the tide of black crime (and offer a cure) to rapists and murderers!
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Ehud on September 15, 2007, 04:13:15 AM


But I'm not black, what's your point?

When an unmarried welfare queen who doesn't know how to take care of her children gives birth to her 6th child, there's a substantially large percentage that that baby will become a criminal or otherwise unproductive member of society.  That's a lot different than a married couple who gives birth to a child fully intending on raising him to the best of their ability and with the means to do so.  Surely you can see the difference.
My point is that you turned out to be just as evil as those evil blacks without having to rob, kill or rape anyone.

Typical Erica/ liberal moral equivelence.

She now equates people who object to the tide of black crime (and offer a cure) to rapists and murderers!

In Erica's world the people who seek to better society by preventing harmful behavior are just as evil as rapists and murderers.  What a great place that would be to live in!
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 04:21:33 AM


But I'm not black, what's your point?

When an unmarried welfare queen who doesn't know how to take care of her children gives birth to her 6th child, there's a substantially large percentage that that baby will become a criminal or otherwise unproductive member of society.  That's a lot different than a married couple who gives birth to a child fully intending on raising him to the best of their ability and with the means to do so.  Surely you can see the difference.
My point is that you turned out to be just as evil as those evil blacks without having to rob, kill or rape anyone.

Typical Erica/ liberal moral equivelence.

She now equates people who object to the tide of black crime (and offer a cure) to rapists and murderers!
If you want to go back in time and be separate, good luck with that, man. Separate yourself from all of the positive people. Oh, wait...YOU ARE separated from positive people.

You've equated the birth of newborn black babies to rapists and murderers. Or did you forget. Anyone who is against furthering the positive in black children needs to get a clue. YOu don't tell a black child, nor a black newborn that they won't be anything of worth... that's how they become criminals.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Ehud on September 15, 2007, 04:34:00 AM
You've equated the birth of newborn black babies to rapists and murderers. 

Well they have to start somewhere.

Anyone who is against furthering the positive in black children needs to get a clue.

If more women who wouldn't be able to properly care and raise children had abortions, this WOULD further the positive in the black children who wouldn't have to experience the negative influence of criminal or socially undesirable children.  Black children IN GENERAL would be better off for it.  Look at the big picture. 


YOu don't tell a black child, nor a black newborn that they won't be anything of worth... that's how they become criminals.

No it's not.  They become criminals by being raised in environments that are conducive to creating criminals.  Criminologists consider the following (and more) to be the main factors in environments that create criminals:

Poverty
Emotional/Physical Abuse
Fatherlessness
Being raised in a society with a high amount of criminals
Having a criminal parent
Witnessing violence of a family member

Aborting children who would be more likely to be raised in an environment with many of these factors is an effective way to prevent criminals from ever being born and would prevent the harm done to victims and society at large.

It would also benefit the rest of the black population by lowering factor #4.
 
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 04:53:02 AM
You've equated the birth of newborn black babies to rapists and murderers. 

Well they have to start somewhere.

They HAVE to start off as BABIES, first! Then they have to be molded into failures OR successful people. You and your half-empty cup.

Anyone who is against furthering the positive in black children needs to get a clue.

If more women who wouldn't be able to properly care and raise children had abortions, this WOULD further the positive in the black children who wouldn't have to experience the negative influence of criminal or socially undesirable children.  Black children IN GENERAL would be better off for it.  Look at the big picture. 

I see the big picture...and it dosen't include you or anyone else who THINKS like you, being part of the solution.


YOu don't tell a black child, nor a black newborn that they won't be anything of worth... that's how they become criminals.

No it's not.  They become criminals by being raised in environments that are conducive to creating criminals.  Criminologists consider the following (and more) to be the main factors in environments that create criminals:

Poverty
Emotional/Physical Abuse
Fatherlessness
Being raised in a society with a high amount of criminals
Having a criminal parent
Witnessing violence of a family member

Aborting children who would be more likely to be raised in an environment with many of these factors is an effective way to prevent criminals from ever being born and would prevent the harm done to victims and society at large.

It would also benefit the rest of the black population by lowering factor #4.
 

So you mean to tell me that what adults , like you're supposed to be, say to children as they grow up have no baring on what kind of child/ adult they'll turn out to be? You're delusional if you think that. That's not the situation for EVERY poor black family. Most blacks are evil according to statistics...true..but I'm rooting for the underdog here, those who AREN'T evil. I'll tell you why. The black race may be full of laziness on one side but there are parents living in dire situations who would do anything for their children to grow up without being selfish, and stupid. The same parents are on welfare, and living with their children, in public housing. Where you live dosen't make you who you are...its the quality of life; the emotional support... the encouragement, the tough love, and the teaching of respect that makes a person who they are. Are you telling me that if you grew up in meager circumstances that you'd be a killer, a rapist or a robber?
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: newman on September 15, 2007, 05:08:21 AM
. Are you telling me that if you grew up in meager circumstances that you'd be a killer, a rapist or a robber? [/b]

Actually, Jews HAVE grown up in poverty a lot of the time and 99.9% turn out to be perfect law-abiding citizens. The reason is that Jewish culture is superior to any other.
Same goes for most chinese & whites, too.

Black culture on the other hand is the most inferior culture in the world alongside islam. theie offspring are almost guaranteed to be criminal if raised in any environment that is less than affluent.

Statistics back this up.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 05:12:30 AM
. Are you telling me that if you grew up in meager circumstances that you'd be a killer, a rapist or a robber? [/b]

Actually, Jews HAVE grown up in poverty a lot of the time and 99.9% turn out to be perfect law-abiding citizens. The reason is that Jewish culture is superior to any other.
Same goes for most chinese & whites, too.

Black culture on the other hand is the most inferior culture in the world alongside islam. theie offspring are almost guaranteed to be criminal if raised in any environment that is less than affluent.

Statistics back this up.
Damn you, newman, I KNOW THAT MOST BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES! You keep repeating that as if I haven't been saying it all along! WHat I'm saying is that statistics does NOT say that you can't teach a child to respect themselves and people around them. Statistics don't say that you cannot instill values and morals in a child even  while living in poverty. I'm saying that you aren't giving the black people who AREN'T doing anything wrong. The statistics say MOST blacks commit more crimes...not ALL including the babies! What about those who aren't doing evil in the black community? DOn't they get a fair shake, or would you just like the entire race to go up in smoke, to make your life a little better?
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Ehud on September 15, 2007, 05:14:06 AM

So you mean to tell me that what adults , like you're supposed to be, say to children as they grow up have no baring on what kind of child/ adult they'll turn out to be?

What you've stated is a decent version of a fundamental belief of most mainstream criminologists of today, not conservative criminologists, LIBERAL (mainstream) criminologists.  Conservative criminologists would agree with you that everyone is free-willed, self-determined, capable of making rational choices, and is disconnected from his environment and able to overcome it.  This view is outdated in the scholarly world and is seen as a relic of the old style of thinking about crime.  Of course I don't think that anyone has NO bearing on what kind of person they're going to be, but the statistics strongly indicate that a person who grows up in an environment conducive to crime has a MUCH higher chance of being involved in criminal or anti-social behavior than a person not in that environment. 

I'm telling you that this IS what adults say.  I'm not making this stuff up.  Go pick up a book on criminology or the psychology of crime and read it for yourself.  Most criminologists would tell you that it's racially insensitive to presume that everyone is able to control what type of person they're going to become, and they would say that someone's environment should be used as a mitigating factor in determining people's culpability for crime. 

People are products of their environment, let's face it.  To say otherwise would fly in the face of all modern research on criminology and the psychology of crime, as well as our understanding of human nature. 

I've been taught this perspective from a liberal psychology of law professor who has devoted his life to reforming the criminal justice system.  I've also been taught this perspective from my black criminal law professor. 

Once again, of course this isn't to say that people have NO control over their actions and what they do.  Some people live in these environments and never commit crime and there are people who have not been in these environments who do commit crime, but the criminally conducive environment is the single best way we have to determine whether someone will commit a crime.  This has been demonstrated and held up by experts in the field of criminology time and time again.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Ehud on September 15, 2007, 05:17:44 AM

Statistics don't say that you cannot instill values and morals in a child even  while living in poverty. I'm saying that you aren't giving the black people who AREN'T doing anything wrong. The statistics say MOST blacks commit more crimes...not ALL including the babies!
[/quote]

I hate to break it to you, but these babies will grow up to be adults capable of committing crimes in the future. 
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: newman on September 15, 2007, 05:18:36 AM
. Are you telling me that if you grew up in meager circumstances that you'd be a killer, a rapist or a robber? [/b]

Actually, Jews HAVE grown up in poverty a lot of the time and 99.9% turn out to be perfect law-abiding citizens. The reason is that Jewish culture is superior to any other.
Same goes for most chinese & whites, too.

Black culture on the other hand is the most inferior culture in the world alongside islam. theie offspring are almost guaranteed to be criminal if raised in any environment that is less than affluent.

Statistics back this up.
Damn you, newman, I KNOW THAT! You keep repeating that as if I haven't been saying it all along! I'm saying that you aren't giving the black people who AREN'T doing anything wrong. The statistics say MOST blacks commit more crimes...not ALL including the babies! What about those who aren't doing evil in the black community? DOn't they get a fair shake, or would you just like the entire race to go up in smoke, to make your life a little better?

Not all poultry have the bird flue, but you know what happens to ALL the fowl when there's a bird flue outbreak. But NOBODY is talking extermination, so don't INVENT an issue to sidetrack the debate.

We're just saying that abortion should be more available to those who are at greater than 50% risk of raising a criminal.........which is ALL but the top 10% of black society.

Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 05:19:35 AM

So you mean to tell me that what adults , like you're supposed to be, say to children as they grow up have no baring on what kind of child/ adult they'll turn out to be?

What you've stated is a decent version of a fundamental belief of most mainstream criminologists of today, not conservative criminologists, LIBERAL (mainstream) criminologists.  Conservative criminologists would agree with you that everyone is free-willed, self-determined, capable of making rational choices, and is disconnected from his environment and able to overcome it.  This view is outdated in the scholarly world and is seen as a relic of the old style of thinking about crime.  Of course I don't think that anyone has NO bearing on what kind of person they're going to be, but the statistics strongly indicate that a person who grows up in an environment conducive to crime has a MUCH higher chance of being involved in criminal or anti-social behavior than a person not in that environment. 

I'm telling you that this IS what adults say.  I'm not making this stuff up.  Go pick up a book on criminology or the psychology of crime and read it for yourself.  Most criminologists would tell you that it's racially insensitive to presume that everyone is able to control what type of person they're going to become, and they would say that someone's environment should be used as a mitigating factor in determining people's culpability for crime. 

People are products of their environment, let's face it.  To say otherwise would fly in the face of all modern research on criminology and the psychology of crime, as well as our understanding of human nature. 

I've been taught this perspective from a liberal psychology of law professor who has devoted his life to reforming the criminal justice system.  I've also been taught this perspective from my black criminal law professor. 

Once again, of course this isn't to say that people have NO control over their actions and what they do.  Some people live in these environments and never commit crime and there are people who have not been in these environments who do commit crime, but the criminally conducive environment is the single best way we have to determine whether someone will commit a crime.  This has been demonstrated and held up by experts in the field of criminology time and time again.
This isn't about criminology, Yacov, this is about the chance of black babies being born unaffected and having the chance to be born and taught right from wrong and learning from it. Criminologists aren't psychologists. Criminologists study statistics based on criminal behavior..and there is NO proof that if a child is born into poverty that they'll be failures in life. That a homeless child dosen't have a chance to make it in the world because they're homeless. YOU are dealing those cards to them. Every supposed adult kicking black kids down when they need someone to lend them a hand and show them the way to greatness.

You can't predict when or why a person has committed a crime until they've done it. Give 2 minute old newborns a fighting chance. Unless you expect them to pick pocket the nurses and car jack doctors right after they're born. ::)
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Ehud on September 15, 2007, 05:21:13 AM
. Are you telling me that if you grew up in meager circumstances that you'd be a killer, a rapist or a robber? [/b]

Actually, Jews HAVE grown up in poverty a lot of the time and 99.9% turn out to be perfect law-abiding citizens. The reason is that Jewish culture is superior to any other.
Same goes for most chinese & whites, too.

Black culture on the other hand is the most inferior culture in the world alongside islam. theie offspring are almost guaranteed to be criminal if raised in any environment that is less than affluent.

Statistics back this up.

Yes this is true.  Jews have grown up in poverty, but poverty is only one of the factors of a criminally conducive environment.  Jews have strong family values, sense of morality and ethics, strong work ethic, low rates of fatherlessness, high rates of education and the desire to learn, VERY low rates of violence and emotional or physical abuse.  You're right, it's very the case with Chinese, Japanese and Koreans as well as whites.   
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 05:26:30 AM
. Are you telling me that if you grew up in meager circumstances that you'd be a killer, a rapist or a robber? [/b]

Actually, Jews HAVE grown up in poverty a lot of the time and 99.9% turn out to be perfect law-abiding citizens. The reason is that Jewish culture is superior to any other.
Same goes for most chinese & whites, too.

Black culture on the other hand is the most inferior culture in the world alongside islam. theie offspring are almost guaranteed to be criminal if raised in any environment that is less than affluent.

Statistics back this up.
Damn you, newman, I KNOW THAT! You keep repeating that as if I haven't been saying it all along! I'm saying that you aren't giving the black people who AREN'T doing anything wrong. The statistics say MOST blacks commit more crimes...not ALL including the babies! What about those who aren't doing evil in the black community? DOn't they get a fair shake, or would you just like the entire race to go up in smoke, to make your life a little better?

Not all poultry have the bird flue, but you know what happens to ALL the fowl when there's a bird flue outbreak. But NOBODY is talking extermination, so don't INVENT an issue to sidetrack the debate.

We're just saying that abortion should be more available to those who are at greater than 50% risk of raising a criminal.........which is ALL but the top 10% of black society.


Don't compare black children to birds please. YOu are not making sense, man. None at all. By the statistics, I should have been a crack head on the street selling my body because of all of the things I went through. But because someone told me I could conquer the world one day (meaning that I could do anything and be anything I wanted in life) I'm who I am today. I am the daughter of a teen mom, we lived in the projects, we barely had enough food to survive but we made it through...I was physically abused, molested and raped and I have girls of my own who are turning out to be the most beautifully raised young women I've ever met because we love them enough to give them the tools to survive. My husband had an even worse fate than I did and he's turned out to be a great example of what a man should be...he's setting one hell of an example by finishing his education with his 3rd degree and making something of his life...So don't give me that crap about black children being 50% at risk of becomming criminals. Yes, there are a hell of a lot more people who have been in similar situations that I could bring up but guess what, it would be fruitless because you'd think badly about them also.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Ehud on September 15, 2007, 05:28:29 AM

This isn't about criminology, Yacov, Criminologists aren't psychologists.
[/quote]

This isn't about criminology?  What?   ???  This has EVERYTHING to do with criminology.  There are many criminologists who ARE psychologists, the fields are so closely related, criminology is an extension of psychology.  The psychology of crime is a HUGE area of study.  You really have no idea what you're even talking about.  Here's a definition of criminology.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminology

I think you need to read that, because apparently you don't know what criminology is.


Criminologists study statistics based on criminal behavior..and there is NO proof that if a child is born into poverty that they'll be failures in life.
[/quote]

You're wrong, criminologists don't just study statistics.  What you're talking about is more of a criminal statistician.  You're also wrong that there is no evidence that people born into poverty have a much statistically higher chance of being failures in life.  There is a MOUNTAIN of evidence concerning this.

"You can't predict when or why a person has committed a crime until they've done it. Give 2 minute old newborns a fighting chance. Unless you expect them to pick pocket the nurses and car jack doctors right after they're born. Roll Eyes"

Of course you can never predict which person is going to commit a crime, but you CAN predict which person will have a statistically higher chance of committing a crime. 

I'm not even going to respond to the baby pick-pocketing comment except to say that that's one of the dumbest things I've heard you say.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: newman on September 15, 2007, 05:29:27 AM
In the 1960s, the Chinese community in California had the lowest income and the highest poverty rates in the state. Yet less than 5 persons of chinese decent were EVER conicted of crimes on a yearly basis.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 05:31:45 AM

This isn't about criminology, Yacov, Criminologists aren't psychologists.

This isn't about criminology?  What?   ???  This has EVERYTHING to do with criminology.  There are many criminologists who ARE psychologists, the fields are so closely related, criminology is an extension of psychology.  The psychology of crime is a HUGE area of study.  You really have no idea what you're even talking about.  Here's a definition of criminology.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminology

I think you need to read that, because apparently you don't know what criminology is.


Criminologists study statistics based on criminal behavior..and there is NO proof that if a child is born into poverty that they'll be failures in life.
[/quote]

You're wrong, criminologists don't just study statistics.  What you're talking about is more of a criminal statistician.  You're also wrong that there is no evidence that people born into poverty have a much statistically higher chance of being failures in life.  There is a MOUNTAIN of evidence concerning this.

"You can't predict when or why a person has committed a crime until they've done it. Give 2 minute old newborns a fighting chance. Unless you expect them to pick pocket the nurses and car jack doctors right after they're born. Roll Eyes"

Of course you can never predict which person is going to commit a crime, but you CAN predict which person will have a statistically higher chance of committing a crime. 

I'm not even going to respond to the baby pick-pocketing comment except to say that that's one of the dumbest things I've heard you say.

[/quote]Edit: You just said SOME criminologists are psychologists...that dosen't mean that they ALL are psychologists. WHat I'm saying is that psychologists say that children react to positivity. If I took one child out of the ghetto today, lets say around 10 years old, I could help her/ him out (if they had problems) by arranging councelling, spending time with them, and encouraging them, and BOOST their chances of never being a criminal. I choose not to look at the glass as half empty, even if I'm dealing with 50/50 odds.

Yacov, you're basically saying that a child, if born to poor parents will be a criminal...what's so different about me assuming you'd think a baby would pick pocket? The point IS that its dumb, your assumption as well as my comment.

I'm banking on encouraging children that they can do anything in life that will prolong it and make them prosperous. Take the encouragement away and you have people like you and newman talking down to little black kids saying that they'll be just like their 'jailbird dad' or 'crackhead mom'.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 05:34:23 AM
In the 1960s, the Chinese community in California had the lowest income and the highest poverty rates in the state. Yet less than 5 persons of chinese decent were EVER conicted of crimes on a yearly basis.
Great, newman. Thanks for searching for that information. More information never hurt anyone. However you still don't have the right to say that black children should be aborted to make the crime rate lower. That's just stupid. You are that negative person always whispering to someone "You can't Do it because you're not worthy". You are quick to point out statistics, but won't even give the remaining children of GOOD black people a chance to live.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Ehud on September 15, 2007, 05:35:53 AM
"Yacov, you're basically saying that a child, if born to poor parents will be a criminal...what's so different about me assuming you'd think a baby would pick pocket? The point IS that its dumb, your assumption as well as my comment.

I'm banking on encouraging children that they can do anything in life that will prolong it and make them prosperous. Take the encouragement away and you have people like you and newman talking down to little black kids saying that they'll be just like their 'jailbird dad' or 'crackhead mom'."

Geez, you really don't understand what I'm saying.  I've said it so many times I don't even know if repeating it is worth anything.  First of all I clearly stated that poverty is ONE of the factors of a criminally conducive environment.  I listed the factors, you can look at them again if you would like.  I even said that Jews grew up in poverty but DIDN'T commit crime, so I have no earthly idea why you would thing that I would say that it is the only factor in crime when I CLEARLY stated the opposite.  I don't know if I want to bother posting to someone who doesn't read/understand my posts.

My point is NOT dumb.  It has the strongest empirical evidence out of any theory on criminality, and it is THE MOST WIDELY ACCEPTED THEORY ON CRIMINOLOGY THAT WE HAVE.  I'm going to side with the evidence and the people who devote their lives to studying the issue of crime rather than Erica, no offense. 

Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 05:41:31 AM
"Yacov, you're basically saying that a child, if born to poor parents will be a criminal...what's so different about me assuming you'd think a baby would pick pocket? The point IS that its dumb, your assumption as well as my comment.

I'm banking on encouraging children that they can do anything in life that will prolong it and make them prosperous. Take the encouragement away and you have people like you and newman talking down to little black kids saying that they'll be just like their 'jailbird dad' or 'crackhead mom'."

Geez, you really don't understand what I'm saying.  I've said it so many times I don't even know if repeating it is worth anything.  First of all I clearly stated that poverty is ONE of the factors of a criminally conducive environment.  I listed the factors, you can look at them again if you would like.  I even said that Jews grew up in poverty but DIDN'T commit crime, so I have no earthly idea why you would thing that I would say that it is the only factor in crime when I CLEARLY stated the opposite.  I don't know if I want to bother posting to someone who doesn't read/understand my posts.

My point is NOT dumb.  It has the strongest empirical evidence out of any theory on criminality, and it is THE MOST WIDELY ACCEPTED THEORY ON CRIMINOLOGY THAT WE HAVE.  I'm going to side with the evidence and the people who devote their lives to studying the issue of crime rather than Erica, no offense. 


You didn't offend me, Ze'ev. Continue to be angry because I'm on the positive side and you're on the lose/lose side.

ANd to clarify...if you give the child encouragement and don't down them they WON'T go through all of the OTHER problems you listed. That's why I didn't mention them. Positive encouragement trumps crime all of the time when it comes to raising kids.

Do you have any by the way?

Also (EDIT) How could you and I agree about the majority of crimes being comitted by blacks, but then disagree when there are people who don't comitt crimes at all? Remember you and Newman said that all black babies need to aborted. Aren't you interested at all in finding ways to combat all of this unnecessary crap? Why do you frown on people who want to make a difference?
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: newman on September 15, 2007, 05:42:13 AM
40% of black males have criminal records in the US. That's overall. If we eliminanated 2 parent families, high income families etc, I'm positive the rate would be well over 50% for single parent households and the poor of the black community.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 05:48:11 AM
40% of black males have criminal records in the US. That's overall. If we eliminanated 2 parent families, high income families etc, I'm positive the rate would be well over 50% for single parent households and the poor of the black community.
AND? Its a shame that the only thing you're 'positive' about is the rate of single parents... We have established what you're saying over and over and over again. YOu are the negative person constantly saying "we need to let blacks have abortions to lower the crime rate" and you mentioned ALL of them because every baby born from a black family will fail and become criminals. That's what YOU said...then Yacov backed you up by saying "Well, they got to start somewhere". How is that at all a nice thing to say about children who have a chance of making something of themselves? You just posted a frickin picture of a cartoon baby in handcuffs...so I know you were talking about the entire race. Why would you tell me about the majority of blacks who commit crime and then wish all of the GOOD blacks would have abortions? Even those who live in poverty, have crime in their family and such?

I met a new neighbor of mine who is 36 years old and her mom is 51. Her mom was 15 when she had her and got married to her the neighbor's father. He abused her and she left; went into the military; became a high ranking officer; and has been at her plan B job for the past 15 years..never missing a beat. Women and men become single parents for many reasons man. Its NOT only because they weren't married to begin with but relationships don't always work out. I look up to my neighbor (because she has the same work ethic as her mom does) and she shows no signs giving up either just because she didn't grow up in the best of circumstances.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: newman on September 15, 2007, 05:50:43 AM
40% of black males have criminal records in the US. That's overall. If we eliminanated 2 parent families, high income families etc, I'm positive the rate would be well over 50% for single parent households and the poor of the black community.
.....and you mentioned ALL of them because every baby born from a black family will fail and become criminals. That's what YOU said...

OMG, you ARE dumb.

How does 50% or there abouts equate to ALL?
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 05:52:59 AM
40% of black males have criminal records in the US. That's overall. If we eliminanated 2 parent families, high income families etc, I'm positive the rate would be well over 50% for single parent households and the poor of the black community.
.....and you mentioned ALL of them because every baby born from a black family will fail and become criminals. That's what YOU said...

OMG, you ARE dumb.

How does 50% or there abouts equate to ALL?
Did that picture you posted say "Only 50% of black babies need to be arrested before they become criminals"... or aborted, for that matter? Let me know if I missed that.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 05:55:28 AM
Chaim said abortions are permitted for blacks because the babies are rodfim since a great number of them will grow up to be criminals.


A black abortion is just crime prevention.
::) That is the most heartless post I've ever read from you...and you've said some stupid things newman. Just because black kids are born you are saying they're predisposed to violence?
Yes.

And laziness, dishonesty, immorallity and drug addiction.
(http://aycu23.webshots.com/image/28222/2005344795837890048_rs.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005344795837890048)


Another quote by Newman:

A black abortion is just crime prevention.

You didn't specify a certain percentage at all... this ^^ is what you said.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Ehud on September 15, 2007, 05:58:47 AM
"You didn't offend me, Yacov. Continue to be angry because I'm on the positive side and you're on the lose/lose side."

I believe that I'm on the positive side.  Isn't it positive to find a way to cut down on the crime rate while simultaneously benefiting the black community?



"Do you have any by the way?"

No I don't have any children but when I do I'm going to make sure that I raise them with a strong set of morals, and I'm going to make sure that I'm in a good financial and family situation at that point because I want to ensure that I raise the child in the best possible way.  I think it's a duty of the family to raise a productive, moral and beneficial member of society so I won't choose to raise a child until I'm sure that I will be able to raise him in the best way possible. 



My name's not Yacov, and I'm not angry.  Giving a child encouragement doesn't do anything to change the environment he grows up and lives in.  Also, how do you know the child is going to get encouragement in this sort of an environment?  So you do this, what's to say anyone else is going to?  People have the choice of how to raise their children and it's just a fact of reality that there are going to be parents who aren't going to give their children any encouragement.  You can't force people to do this.  Sadly, it is very hard to overcome the negative effects of growing up in these environments, and "positive encouragement" is a nice sounding concept that doesn't hold up in the real world. 

"How could you and I agree about the majority of crimes being comitted by blacks, but then disagree when there are people who don't comitt crimes at all?"

I don't understand what you mean here.  I don't disagree that there are people who grow up in these environments who don't commit crimes at all, but the odds are stacked up against them.
 

"Remember you and Newman said that all black babies need to aborted."

Please point to where I said this.  Neither of us have EVER said this.  I just think that women that are likely to raise their children in criminally conducive environments should seek to get abortions if they can't properly take care of their kids, or in the case of a mother who already has too many children as it is, I think abortion is a good option. 

"Aren't you interested at all in finding ways to combat all of this unnecessary crap? Why do you frown on people who want to make a difference?"

I am VERY interested in finding ways to combat all this stuff.  That's why I posted the thread to begin with.  I don't frown on people who want to make a difference.  Both newman and I want to make a difference.  I do frown on people who provide unrealistic or infeasible ways to make a difference.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Ehud on September 15, 2007, 05:59:53 AM
40% of black males have criminal records in the US. That's overall. If we eliminanated 2 parent families, high income families etc, I'm positive the rate would be well over 50% for single parent households and the poor of the black community.
.....and you mentioned ALL of them because every baby born from a black family will fail and become criminals. That's what YOU said...

newman NEVER said this.  You misinterpreted his statements that were obviously supposed to be humorous.

You also translated two very general statements and made a very specific statement out of them, without justification.


Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 06:00:00 AM
Sorry about giving your name wrong. I think your posts have a Yacov kind of feel to them. I'll erase it and replace  your name.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: newman on September 15, 2007, 06:00:37 AM
40% of black males have criminal records in the US. That's overall. If we eliminanated 2 parent families, high income families etc, I'm positive the rate would be well over 50% for single parent households and the poor of the black community.
.....and you mentioned ALL of them because every baby born from a black family will fail and become criminals. That's what YOU said...

OMG, you ARE dumb.

How does 50% or there abouts equate to ALL?
Did that picture you posted say "Only 50% of black babies need to be arrested before they become criminals"... or aborted, for that matter? Let me know if I missed that.

Yes.

But you said.."and you mentioned ALL of them because every baby born from a black family will fail and become criminals. That's what YOU said..."....which is untrue.

We're saying that at least 50% of babies from poor or single parent black families will be criminal so that justifies intervention with ALL of them (from THAT background) as a precaution.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 06:04:28 AM
40% of black males have criminal records in the US. That's overall. If we eliminanated 2 parent families, high income families etc, I'm positive the rate would be well over 50% for single parent households and the poor of the black community.
.....and you mentioned ALL of them because every baby born from a black family will fail and become criminals. That's what YOU said...

newman NEVER said this.  You misinterpreted his statements that were obviously supposed to be humorous.

You also translated two very general statements and made a very specific statement out of them, without justification.



What's humorous about a picture with a black baby in handcuffs? Nothing from what I can see. Those pictures are created to enrage people of that race. Just like newman's av... a white man in black face, poking fun at black people. None of it is humorous. I never would think of posting the pictures I saw online when I was contemplating fighting stupidity with supidity.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 06:08:14 AM
40% of black males have criminal records in the US. That's overall. If we eliminanated 2 parent families, high income families etc, I'm positive the rate would be well over 50% for single parent households and the poor of the black community.
.....and you mentioned ALL of them because every baby born from a black family will fail and become criminals. That's what YOU said...

OMG, you ARE dumb.

How does 50% or there abouts equate to ALL?
Did that picture you posted say "Only 50% of black babies need to be arrested before they become criminals"... or aborted, for that matter? Let me know if I missed that.

Yes.

But you said.."and you mentioned ALL of them because every baby born from a black family will fail and become criminals. That's what YOU said..."....which is untrue.

We're saying that at least 50% of babies from poor or single parent black families will be criminal so that justifies intervention with ALL of them (from THAT background) as a precaution.
Are we getting in to that "as a whole" thing again?

When you said this:
A black abortion is just crime prevention.  
You didn't specify WHICH percentage of black babies you were talking about... you just said "Black abortion is just crime prevention"  as if you wouldn't mind if even a good black person got pregnant and had to have an abortion. That would be something you'd jump for joy over.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Ehud on September 15, 2007, 06:15:39 AM
40% of black males have criminal records in the US. That's overall. If we eliminanated 2 parent families, high income families etc, I'm positive the rate would be well over 50% for single parent households and the poor of the black community.
.....and you mentioned ALL of them because every baby born from a black family will fail and become criminals. That's what YOU said...

OMG, you ARE dumb.

How does 50% or there abouts equate to ALL?
Did that picture you posted say "Only 50% of black babies need to be arrested before they become criminals"... or aborted, for that matter? Let me know if I missed that.

Yes.

But you said.."and you mentioned ALL of them because every baby born from a black family will fail and become criminals. That's what YOU said..."....which is untrue.

We're saying that at least 50% of babies from poor or single parent black families will be criminal so that justifies intervention with ALL of them (from THAT background) as a precaution.
Are we getting in to that "as a whole" thing again?

When you said this:
A black abortion is just crime prevention.  
You didn't specify WHICH percentage of black babies you were talking about... you just said "Black abortion is just crime prevention" as if, if a GOOD black person gets pregnant and has to have an abortion for medical reasons or their own personal (other) reason, that a black abortion is just crime prevention.

You shouldn't read too much into a general statement like that which was intended to be humorous.  Of course newman doesn't think that EVERY black abortion is crime prevention, you're really selling newman short if you think he believes that.  You also should look at statements like that in context.  The context of the post is "in situations where black women can't properly care for a child and will raise him in an environment that is conducive to future crime, abortion is a good option and should be widely available to whoever seeks it", so of course newman wouldn't be coming out of nowhere saying that every single black baby needs to be aborted.  That doesn't fit with the context of the post.  I know you tend to think of people's statements in "worst case scenario" mode which I think is because of your drive to defend black people, but most of the time when you do that it results with you misunderstanding what we're saying.  We're not THAT evil.  ;)

Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: newman on September 15, 2007, 06:16:33 AM
40% of black males have criminal records in the US. That's overall. If we eliminanated 2 parent families, high income families etc, I'm positive the rate would be well over 50% for single parent households and the poor of the black community.
.....and you mentioned ALL of them because every baby born from a black family will fail and become criminals. That's what YOU said...

OMG, you ARE dumb.

How does 50% or there abouts equate to ALL?
Did that picture you posted say "Only 50% of black babies need to be arrested before they become criminals"... or aborted, for that matter? Let me know if I missed that.

Yes.

But you said.."and you mentioned ALL of them because every baby born from a black family will fail and become criminals. That's what YOU said..."....which is untrue.

We're saying that at least 50% of babies from poor or single parent black families will be criminal so that justifies intervention with ALL of them (from THAT background) as a precaution.
Are we getting in to that "as a whole" thing again?

When you said this:
A black abortion is just crime prevention.  
You didn't specify WHICH percentage of black babies you were talking about... you just said "Black abortion is just crime prevention"  as if you wouldn't mind if even a good black person got pregnant and had to have an abortion. That would be something you'd jump for joy over.

You're STILL missing the point.

I'm not saying ALL black kids WILL become criminal. But because such a huge amount will, abortions would lower the future crime rate, thus...."crime prevention".

You really need to get some reading/comprehension skills before you start teaching!
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 06:23:36 AM
40% of black males have criminal records in the US. That's overall. If we eliminanated 2 parent families, high income families etc, I'm positive the rate would be well over 50% for single parent households and the poor of the black community.
.....and you mentioned ALL of them because every baby born from a black family will fail and become criminals. That's what YOU said...

OMG, you ARE dumb.

How does 50% or there abouts equate to ALL?
Did that picture you posted say "Only 50% of black babies need to be arrested before they become criminals"... or aborted, for that matter? Let me know if I missed that.

Yes.

But you said.."and you mentioned ALL of them because every baby born from a black family will fail and become criminals. That's what YOU said..."....which is untrue.

We're saying that at least 50% of babies from poor or single parent black families will be criminal so that justifies intervention with ALL of them (from THAT background) as a precaution.
Are we getting in to that "as a whole" thing again?

When you said this:
A black abortion is just crime prevention.  
You didn't specify WHICH percentage of black babies you were talking about... you just said "Black abortion is just crime prevention" as if, if a GOOD black person gets pregnant and has to have an abortion for medical reasons or their own personal (other) reason, that a black abortion is just crime prevention.

You shouldn't read too much into a general statement like that which was intended to be humorous.  Of course newman doesn't think that EVERY black abortion is crime prevention, you're really selling newman short if you think he believes that.  You also should look at statements like that in context.  The context of the post is "in situations where black women can't properly care for a child and will raise him in an environment that is conducive to future crime, abortion is a good option and should be widely available to whoever seeks it", so of course newman wouldn't be coming out of nowhere saying that every single black baby needs to be aborted.  That doesn't fit with the context of the post.  I know you tend to think of people's statements in "worst case scenario" mode which I think is because of your drive to defend black people, but most of the time when you do that it results with you misunderstanding what we're saying.  We're not THAT evil.  ;)


... I'm wasting my breath saying over and over again that I dont' defend evil blacks ...but apparently I'm supposed to hate (I was angry when I typed this)  the rest of them also.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM with people who mandate birth control on women who have children over and over again to benefit from the welfare system...cool. I'm not about to tell a woman she can't have an abortion or should have one.

I dont' tend to think anything. I read that you say one thing, then bash me when I've read it correctly. Newman saying "aborting black babies is crime prevention" isn't singling part of the race out,its including everone in the race. I think you guys are so comfortable speaking as though no black person is reading what you type but...HELLO!!! :o I'm here. ANd if you don't want me to misconstrue the things you say, be spacific about who you're referring to. Be it 50% or 75% of evil blacks. I can't get angry with statistics staring me in the face. When you say BLACKS you include everyone. Just like when I said "WHites are stupid" white people attacked me for saying it. That generalization carries with everyone.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: cjd on September 15, 2007, 06:32:37 AM
I really have no strong opinion on abortion one way or the other except for late term abortions which for all practical purposes is legalized murder. If I was forced to say I would be more for abortion of unwanted children than against. Nothing is worse that an unwanted or uncared for child. The thing I would like to see is some sort of birth control program set up for people who are on welfare or home relief. From the day you sign up you either have to submit to a program of temporary sterilization or you can't get benefits extended if more children come along. Why should tax paying folks foot the bill for people who stay home 24-7 popping out more and more kids in order to get the relief payment boosted up. Most times the money given to the so called parents never benefits the child. Herds of uncared for children of any color is not a good thing for any society.This issue is not a white or black issue its a issue of common sense.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 06:33:55 AM
40% of black males have criminal records in the US. That's overall. If we eliminanated 2 parent families, high income families etc, I'm positive the rate would be well over 50% for single parent households and the poor of the black community.
.....and you mentioned ALL of them because every baby born from a black family will fail and become criminals. That's what YOU said...

OMG, you ARE dumb.

How does 50% or there abouts equate to ALL?
Did that picture you posted say "Only 50% of black babies need to be arrested before they become criminals"... or aborted, for that matter? Let me know if I missed that.

Yes.

But you said.."and you mentioned ALL of them because every baby born from a black family will fail and become criminals. That's what YOU said..."....which is untrue.

We're saying that at least 50% of babies from poor or single parent black families will be criminal so that justifies intervention with ALL of them (from THAT background) as a precaution.
Are we getting in to that "as a whole" thing again?

When you said this:
A black abortion is just crime prevention.  
You didn't specify WHICH percentage of black babies you were talking about... you just said "Black abortion is just crime prevention"  as if you wouldn't mind if even a good black person got pregnant and had to have an abortion. That would be something you'd jump for joy over.

You're STILL missing the point.

I'm not saying ALL black kids WILL become criminal. But because such a huge amount will, abortions would lower the future crime rate, thus...."crime prevention".

You really need to get some reading/comprehension skills before you start teaching!
Perhaps I'd comprehend your posts better if you weren 't so bigoted. You aren't specific enough newman. You constantly want me to repeat the words YOU say and not have a mind of my own....lets see how THIS fits you... Instead of posting a stupid picture of a baby in handcuffs, try explaining yourself like a human being.

"Evil blacks need birth control or need to have abortions for babies they can't care for..."

I think that sounds a lot different than, "aborted black babies is crime prevention." , especially when its crystal clear that you didn't single out evil blacks with this picture.

And responding to another post you responded with..

Dont' worry about me, newman. I'll be a great teacher.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: newman on September 15, 2007, 06:35:50 AM
The thing I would like to see is some sort of birth control program set up for people who are on welfare or home relief. From the day you sign up you either have to submit to a program of temporary sterilization or you can't get benefits extended if more children come along. Why should tax paying folks foot the bill for people who stay home 24-7 popping out more and more kids in order to get the relief payment boosted up. http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=8797.0
See my new thread:

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=8797.0

Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: Erica on September 15, 2007, 06:42:10 AM
I really have no strong opinion on abortion one way or the other except for late term abortions which for all practical purposes is legalized murder. If I was forced to say I would be more for abortion of unwanted children than against. Nothing is worse that an unwanted or uncared for child. The thing I would like to see is some sort of birth control program set up for people who are on welfare or home relief. From the day you sign up you either have to submit to a program of temporary sterilization or you can't get benefits extended if more children come along. Why should tax paying folks foot the bill for people who stay home 24-7 popping out more and more kids in order to get the relief payment boosted up. Most times the money given to the so called parents never benefits the child. Herds of uncared for children of any color is not a good thing for any society.This issue is not a white or black issue its a issue of common sense.
I agree with you cjd. Its all about common sense with everyone involved. Great post.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: MarZutra on September 15, 2007, 08:21:04 AM
I really have no strong opinion on abortion one way or the other except for late term abortions which for all practical purposes is legalized murder. If I was forced to say I would be more for abortion of unwanted children than against. Nothing is worse that an unwanted or uncared for child. The thing I would like to see is some sort of birth control program set up for people who are on welfare or home relief. From the day you sign up you either have to submit to a program of temporary sterilization or you can't get benefits extended if more children come along. Why should tax paying folks foot the bill for people who stay home 24-7 popping out more and more kids in order to get the relief payment boosted up. Most times the money given to the so called parents never benefits the child. Herds of uncared for children of any color is not a good thing for any society.This issue is not a white or black issue its a issue of common sense.
I agree with you in part CJD.  This can also be extened to the question as to Why should we pay the costs of a birth control system set up for welfare recipients or moral degenerates?  Tragically, this issue can be and is applicable to black/white and now hispanic issues as the former and latter dispay far disproportionate statistics in this specific area. 

Abortion cannot be targetted solely to "black" fetuses as the title suggests but there is a bit of truth in Newman's posts when statistical data and international realities are considered.  Blacks, like the Arabs and North African Black Muslims in Europe, display a far higher crime and other pertinant qualities which contribute to social decay than whites, which everyone here is in agreement upon.  Sadly, as time "progresses" and whites (and all others) embrace shvartzism and the San Francisco mental ineptness, these can no longer be considered problems of that specific "community" but just one big expanding problem.....imo.

PS:  What was that adage "Every joke contains and ounce of truth." ;)....
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: takebackourtemple on September 16, 2007, 12:04:51 AM
   I'll start by clarifying that JTF does not hate anyone based on ethnicity and black babies are different from third world subhuman scum. Of course aborting a black fetus based on skin color is a crime.
   Doing so based upon the mother being an evil beast, however, introduces a paradox to my beliefs. Even when the mother is guilty, the child can be innocent. The problem is that the child almost never is. Something in the genetics of the mother usually gets passed to the child so the child commits horrendous crimes.
   If we abort the fetuses of all crack mothers who are fat because they use their welfare money to only feed themselves and not their children(regardless of race), we will inevitably kill a few innocent fetuses, but the world will be a better place.
   Ideally I'm against abortion, which is a disgusting thing that no mother should even think about. From a responsibility standpoint, there are cases where it is not only justified, but should be forced.
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: MarZutra on September 16, 2007, 08:39:38 AM
 :) The sad part is that I wish I wasn't paying for them with my tax dollars but they should pay for them with their food stamps....  I'd much rather see my tax dollars at work employing these scum to clean streets, mow lawns or prune hedges...anything...even a chaingang.  At least I can see my tax dollars at work and not continually given away in "Welfare", FIMA "Aid" to New Orleans even though still blamed for being "racist", "Foreign Aid" to build roads, schools, mosques and hospitals in Iraq and Afganistan or "Humanitarian Relief" to Africa which should be cut off and fenced in and left for the next 50 years to either cleanse itself of its own problems or build itself under its own initive....  Sorry, I'm so "progressive"...
Title: Re: Are we really against Abortion when it comes to aborting black fetuses?
Post by: MarZutra on September 16, 2007, 09:40:17 AM
   There is a difference between a good and a bad parent. A good parent has a child because they want to provide everything for their child. A bad parent wants to have one for the sake of owning property. In the case of this monster, she has as many children as she can because they provide revenue to her in the form of welfare, foodstamps. If by any chance she has a child with someone who has any money, then she also collects child support.
Good points..  agreed...