JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ItalianZionist on February 23, 2022, 11:25:48 PM
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Im no fan of Ukraine, but that Ugly Beast didn't have anything better to do but lower our stock market.
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Absolutely despicable. Wars of aggressive conquest over other nations are forbidden as theft for Gentile governments. Truly evil.
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Morally, good luck to both sides. Both countries murdered millions of Jews. My family suffered from both Russians and Ukrainians, who are both vicious Jew haters.
Geopolitically, we will see how it impacts the obsessive attempt by the Biden regime to revive the Iran deal (there were reports that they were going to sign it this week).
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The Soviet KGB, which Putin was part of years later, invented the Fakestinians. Putin identifies Russia with the Soviet Union from a historic continuing link standpoint. He dreams of a new Russian Empire. Disinformation, which was an official Soviet tactic, is a central part of the strategy Putin and his Russian government use.
https://stanfordreview.org/deception-palestinian-nationalism/
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Denazification of Ukraine has begun.
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There was no Ukraine until the 1900's. Russia originated in what is now Ukraine. Kievan Rus was the origin of Russian Civilization. Of course I don't care if Putin is Historically correct because Russia is evil. It's just hypocritical of the Leftists who oppose ethnic Russians from wanting parts of Ukraine to be a part of Russia but they have no problem with ethnic Albanian Muslim Nazis wanting to steal parts of Serbia.
This could be World War III and the War of Gog and Magog. Putin is Gog and Magog is Russia. The European theater is the West and Ukraine vs. Russia. The Pacific theater is Russia, China, and North Korea vs. Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan. A third theater could be the Middle Eastern theater with Russia, Iran, and Syria vs. Israel which is how it will become the War of Gog and Magog.
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This article has information on Ukraine being mentioned historically, before Russia was.
https://uapost.us/en/blog/in-12th-century-the-land-is-first-mentioned-as-ukraine-russia-does-not-exist/
There was no Ukraine until the 1900's. Russia originated in what is now Ukraine. Kievan Rus was the origin of Russia Civilization. Of course I don't care if Putin is Historically correct because Russia is evil. It's just hypocritical of the Leftists who oppose ethnic Russians from wanting parts of Ukraine to be a part of Russia but they have no problem with ethnic Albanian Muslim Nazis wanting to steal parts of Serbia.
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Denazification of Ukraine has begun.
indeed, HKB"H is showing that we are on thin ice
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I am appalled that so many people from the right and the left are justifying this invasion, blame America for it, repeat the Russian propaganda that the Ukraine is not a real nation and that Russia is the victim.
There needs to be a united front of all freedom loving nations against this Aggression.
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Yeah... But terrorising and killing of Russians in east of Ukraine for 8 years is totally fine dude. Because it's not an invasion, the Ukrainian nazis did it on their own land, so it is fine... No.
Finally the time has come to do what the USSR failed to do after WWII - to denazify the Ukrainian state and nation from the followers of the Bandera's ideoligy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera
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What a load BS. Its not about Ukraine only. Russia taking over Ukraine is making the enemies of America and Israel stronger. The Russia-China-Iran AXIS is only getting stronger and America is going into further decline.
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To me it looks like the nazification of Russia and the rape of a peaceful, harmless modern Ukraine.
Yeah... But terrorising and killing of Russians in east of Ukraine for 8 years is totally fine dude. Because it's not an invasion, the Ukrainian nazis did it on their own land, so it is fine... No.
Finally the time has come to do what the USSR failed to do after WWII - to denazify the Ukrainian state and nation from the followers of the Bandera's ideoligy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera
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The USSR was evil. Chaim fought against them and served prison time for that.
Why do you Serbs support Russia? Did your forget what they did to you by creating the artificial country of Yogoslavia which ended up with Serbs losing lands to the others when Yogoslavia fell apart? Putin wants to reestablish the USSR and blames Soviet leaders for making Ukraine a republic. They did the same with Yogoslavia.
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I strongly agree with Zelhar and Tag-MehirTzedek, while condemning Nazis and supporters of Nazis, which are in practically every country and in every Nationality.
Interestingly, in the Ukrainian Diaspora in North America, most of those with Ukrainian roots, especially in the media, authors, and in academics, are either Woke or establishment types. This was reflected in their reaction to the Canadian Truckers Convoy, as not surprisingly to me, they went along with the Trudeau/ LPC (Liberal Party of Canada) talking points. Including, the protestors were heavily Nazi. The protests were about much more than COVID restrictions. Most of the truckers in the protests were vaccinated. If someone in the Ukrainian Canadian community supported the Canadian Truckers Convoy, they were treated like outcasts by the community 'leaders'. One of them became a close friend of mine in the last few years. She is very pro-Israel in ways that JTF is. In fact, she shared with me this invaluable website that exposes a large portion of the Fakestinian Hoax. I highly recommend that you save or bookmark this website:
'Arab and British Sources on the Arab Desertion of Palestine in 1948'
https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn%3Aaaid%3Ascds%3AUS%3A344e3672-6b30-4d48-8bee-a37d82d6a9ea#pageNum=1
One thing I think we need to reflect on is the overall big picture regarding trying to save Israel from epic disaster. Including and especially, the necessity of getting more support for the heroic Hilltop Youth. IHMO, while past and present Nazis and their supporters should be condemned, going far beyond that, in which entire countries (the entire people) and ethnicities are grouped with them, does more harm than good for what JTF is trying to accomplish for Israel.
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I strongly agree with Zelhar and Tag-MehirTzedek, while condemning Nazis and supporters of Nazis, which are in practically every country and in every Nationality.
Interestingly, in the Ukrainian Diaspora in North America, most of those with Ukrainian roots, especially in the media, authors, and in academics, are either Woke or establishment types. This was reflected in their reaction to the Canadian Truckers Convoy, as not surprisingly to me, they went along with the Trudeau/ LPC (Liberal Party of Canada) talking points. Including, the protestors were heavily Nazi. The protests were about much more than COVID restrictions. Most of the truckers in the protests were vaccinated. If someone in the Ukrainian Canadian community supported the Canadian Truckers Convoy, they were treated like outcasts by the community 'leaders'. One of them became a close friend of mine in the last few years. She is very pro-Israel in ways that JTF is. In fact, she shared with me this invaluable website that exposes a large portion of the Fakestinian Hoax. I highly recommend that you save or bookmark this website:
'Arab and British Sources on the Arab Desertion of Palestine in 1948'
https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn%3Aaaid%3Ascds%3AUS%3A344e3672-6b30-4d48-8bee-a37d82d6a9ea#pageNum=1
One thing I think we need to reflect on is the overall big picture regarding trying to save Israel from epic disaster. Including and especially, the necessity of getting more support for the heroic Hilltop Youth. IHMO, while past and present Nazis and their supporters should be condemned, going far beyond that, in which entire countries (the entire people) and ethnicities are grouped with them, does more harm than good for what JTF is trying to accomplish for Israel.
Grouped together?
The father of the Ukrainian nation, the imfamous Bogdan Hmelnitzky (known for the massacres of hundreds of thousands of Jews in 1648) was a Nazi.
So was the founder of the first Ukrainian state, Symon Petliura (responsible for the mass murder of dozens to hundreds of thousands of Jews during the Russian civil war).
So was Stepan Bandera, who allied with the Nazis and aided them in the Holocaust of 1.6 million Ukrainian Jews.
And these aren't just people from the past, but national heroes of Ukraine with streets and cities being named after them and statues of them erected in city squares. Even Germany doesn't dare to (publicly) glorify Reinhard Heydrich and Heinrich Himmler.
It's a country where attacks on the remaining Jews are not uncommon, Neo Nazi parades with thousands of participants carrying torches in the capital city are normal, a country with openly Neo Nazi army battalions (such as the infamous Azov Regiment), a country which always gets a top spot in polls of the most antisemitic countries in Europe (even more than Russia, and I don't need to describe how antisemitic Russia is).
Comparing Ukrainian Nazism to Neo Nazis in America and the West is absurd.
It's outrageous that there are Jews, who until recently knew that Ukraine's second name is antisemitism and third name is pogroms, who are suddenly willing to ignore that because the media and the US government are pushing a pro Ukraine campaign. Ukraine being an opportunistic NATO ally doesn't suddenly make it an ally of the Jewish people any more than its close ally in the war with Russia, Turkey.
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According to the Internet Encyclopedia of Ukraine, "the modern name Ukraintsi (Ukrainians) is derived from Ukraina (Ukraine), a name first documented in the Kyiv Chronicle under the year 1187."
http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CU%5CK%5CUkrainians.htm
This refutes the argument about a later beginning of Ukrainian nationhood. Of course, such arguments are a deflection. Russia is waging an illegal and immoral war of aggressive conquest over Ukraine now.
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According to the Internet Encyclopedia of Ukraine, "the modern name Ukraintsi (Ukrainians) is derived from Ukraina (Ukraine), a name first documented in the Kyiv Chronicle under the year 1187."
http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CU%5CK%5CUkrainians.htm
This refutes the argument about a later beginning of Ukrainian nationhood. Of course, such arguments are a deflection. Russia is waging an illegal and immoral war of aggressive conquest over Ukraine now.
1. I've heard this argument countless times. The meaning of the old Slavic term "Ukraina" is under dispute. What is undisputed is that Ukrainians were not a geopolitically distinct actor until Hmelnitzky's peasant uprising in the 17th century (even then there was a lot of overlap with the Russians with whom they were allied against the Catholic Poles), and there was no independent state of Ukraine until 1918.
2. The ethnic historical dispute between Ukraine and Russia is of no interest to me and should not interest any Jew any more than the dispute between the Iraqis and the Iranians over Khuzestan. What concerns me is what is good for the Jews. In this war, both sides are cruel, semi civilized people who are historical enemies of the Jewish people and their lands are soaked with Jewish blood. I wish good luck to both of them in yet another typical orgy of brutality and murder that is typical for both of them.
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1. I've heard this argument countless times. The meaning of the old Slavic term "Ukraina" is under dispute. What is undisputed is that Ukrainians were not a geopolitically distinct actor until Hmelnitzky's peasant uprising in the 17th century (even then there was a lot of overlap with the Russians with whom they were allied against the Catholic Poles), and there was no independent state of Ukraine until 1918.
2. The ethnic historical dispute between Ukraine and Russia is of no interest to me and should not interest any Jew any more than the dispute between the Iraqis and the Iranians over Khuzestan. What concerns me is what is good for the Jews. In this war, both sides are cruel, semi civilized people who are historical enemies of the Jewish people and their lands are soaked with Jewish blood. I wish good luck to both of them in yet another typical orgy of brutality and murder that is typical for both of them.
It is not within the purview of foreigners like you and me to lecture Ukrainians on their identity, history or language. Your Jewish God said that wars of aggressive conquest over other nations are forbidden as theft for Gentile governments. Russia is conquering Ukraine. Ukraine is not conquering Russia. Your God also commanded Gentiles to save a person's life. The Torah Law for Gentiles should concern you, and there is no doubt what it says regarding this war.
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It is not within the purview of foreigners like you and me to lecture Ukrainians on their identity, history or language. Your Jewish God said that wars of aggressive conquest over other nations are forbidden as theft for Gentile governments. Russia is conquering Ukraine. Ukraine is not conquering Russia. Your God also commanded Gentiles to save a person's life. The Torah Law for Gentiles should concern you, and there is no doubt what it says regarding this war.
Considering that:
1. My family lived in the lands that are now Ukraine and Russia for centuries. I speak Russian and am well familiar with the culture and history of the region.
2. The Ukrainians murdered my family in Odessa, stole their houses and looted their belongings in Kiev which they cheekily refused to return.
3. The Russians persecuted and bullied my family for being Jewish.
I sure am.
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Considering that:
1. My family lived in the lands that are now Ukraine and Russia for centuries. I speak Russian and am well familiar with the culture and history of the region.
2. The Ukrainians murdered my family in Odessa, stole their houses and looted their belongings in Kiev which they cheekily refused to return.
3. The Russians persecuted and bullied my family for being Jewish.
I sure am.
Ron, please don't get emotional and please stop deflecting from the clear and explicit Torah Law. I know you don't care about the words of a Croatian Noahide, so here is the source for the ruling on Gentile wars: the Divine Code by Rabbi Weiner, Third Edition, p 633, citing Sheva Mitzvot HaShem, Part VIII, ch. 16, and Hatam Sofer Hoshen Mishpat Responsa 54.
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I'm against this attack on many fronts. First and foremost it disrupts the relative peace the world has as this involves a superpower with a leader who is Russia first (which I have no problem with). But it's not a defensive battle as far as we know. Putin has always had intentions to try and run the world from his own backyard and his ideology is only to disrupt other nations so that he can be in power, which is a bad thing. The United States, on the other hand, while it has many terrible flaws, typically doesn't have that intention to harm human rights and disrupt the lives of people in other nations.
Despite the anti semitic past of both nations, I'm, so far, rooting for Ukraine to survive and to see Russia get severely crippled....at least for now.
But we have seen the wheels turn in history. While Russia deserves to be humiliated, at what cost to the Russian people to suffer like Germany suffered after World War I and brought us a Hitler?
In my opinion, if possible, hang Putin and replace with a pro west leader that is good for Russia and the world and who does not side with muslim terrorists and is only a competing force for good.
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Informative video is worth watching... "Why is Russia (Putin) invading Ukraine?" -> https://youtu.be/If61baWF4GE
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Ron, please don't get emotional and please stop deflecting from the clear and explicit Torah Law. I know you don't care about the words of a Croatian Noahide, so here is the source for the ruling on Gentile wars: the Divine Code by Rabbi Weiner, Third Edition, p 633, citing Sheva Mitzvot HaShem, Part VIII, ch. 16, and Hatam Sofer Hoshen Mishpat Responsa 54.
These are NAZI countries where the words Jew and Judaism are dirty words and you are spewing some nonsensical irrelevant garbage about how one of them suddenly violates Noahide Law... laughable.
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I'm against this attack on many fronts. First and foremost it disrupts the relative peace the world has as this involves a superpower with a leader who is Russia first (which I have no problem with). But it's not a defensive battle as far as we know. Putin has always had intentions to try and run the world from his own backyard and his ideology is only to disrupt other nations so that he can be in power, which is a bad thing. The United States, on the other hand, while it has many terrible flaws, typically doesn't have that intention to harm human rights and disrupt the lives of people in other nations.
Despite the anti semitic past of both nations, I'm, so far, rooting for Ukraine to survive and to see Russia get severely crippled....at least for now.
But we have seen the wheels turn in history. While Russia deserves to be humiliated, at what cost to the Russian people to suffer like Germany suffered after World War I and brought us a Hitler?
In my opinion, if possible, hang Putin and replace with a pro west leader that is good for Russia and the world and who does not side with muslim terrorists and is only a competing force for good.
A few points:
1. There is no relative peace but a world order with a status quo that forbids aggression against certain VIP countries, and not only welcomes but encourages aggression towards others. The unprecedented campaign of international pressure that Russia is facing now can easily be used against any country that the US administration and its EU allies hate, and by that I mean Israel. And I'm not just talking about an Israeli attack in sovereign countries like Iran and Syria. In that regard, Russia winning and proving this campaign of pressure worthless, has its benefits. On the other hand, Russia is a direct supporter of Iran. So again, both sides in this war are not exactly our friends.
2. Ukraine is siding with Muslim terrorists as well (Turkey and the Dudayev Chechen jihadists). The most potent weapon that Ukraine uses are the Turkish Bayraktar drones and Ukrainian victory would mean a major victory for Turkey as well. Turkey and its international network of jihadists is dangerous for Israel (and Europe). It's better that Turkey doesn't get a geopolitical power boost.
3. Another negative outcome of this war is the militarization of Germany.
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Ron should we really blame all modern day Ukrainians for the sins of their grandparents and great grandparents? You are correct their ancestors were rotten antisemites. I did say when i started this post that " I was no fan of Ukraine." I said this in reference to the awful history....unbelievable cruelty. But is it right to blame this generation for the sins of their grandparents? I must confess I fall into that trap also. Sometimes I think all Germans are this or all Russians are that. But when you stop and think Ron , it is illogical. But I respect your views.
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Ron should we really blame all modern day Ukrainians for the sins of their grandparents and great grandparents? You a correct their ancestors were rotten antisemites. I did say when i started this post that " I was no fan of Ukraine." I said this in reference to the awful history....unbelievable cruelty. But is it right to blame this generation for the sins of their grandparents? I must confess I fall into that trap also. Sometimes I rhino all Germans are this or all Russians are that. But when you stop and think Ron , it is illogical. But I respect your views.
When the current generation views their ancestors as heroes? When you have streets and cities named in their honor, statues erected in their honor in city squares, bills of money in their honor?
Absolutely.
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These are NAZI countries where the words Jew and Judaism are dirty words and you are spewing some nonsensical irrelevant garbage about how one of them suddenly violates Noahide Law... laughable.
What do you mean suddenly? I have been pointing out on this forum that Russia's wars of aggressive conquest are forbidden as theft since February 3. The aggression is not just stealing the land. It's stealing the people's state of mind and honor against their will. Noahide law is not "nonsensical irrelevant garbage." It is meant to be the law of the land in Gentile countries and the basis for their international relations.
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What do you mean suddenly? I have been pointing out on this forum that Russia's wars of aggressive conquest are forbidden as theft since February 3. The aggression is not just stealing the land. It's stealing the people's state of mind and honor against their will. Noahide law is not "nonsensical irrelevant garbage." It is meant to be the law of the land in Gentile countries and the basis for their international relations.
בס''ד
The foundation of all Noahide law is the belief that the seven Noahide commandments come from G-d, the G-d of Israel. The Rambam states that a Gentile who observes the seven Noahide commandments because he considers them to logical is a wise person, but not a ben Noah. Only if the Gentile recognizes that these commandments come from the Torah and the Bible is he a ben Noah. In other words, a ben Noah observes the seven commandments because they are G-d's law.
In the Torah and the Bible, G-d repeatedly warns the nations of the world that they must never go against Israel. In fact, if the nations wish to be blessed, they must bless Israel. If they curse Israel, they will be cursed. Support for Israel and the Jews is the number one precondition that G-d sets for the nations of the world to survive.
Russia and Ukraine have both spilled oceans of Jewish blood for centuries. During the holocaust, the Ukrainian Nazis savagely murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent Jewish men, women and children. In Babi Yar, the Ukrainian Nazis rounded up tens of thousands of unarmed, defenseless Jews and forced them to dig their own graves. The Ukrainian Nazis then threw the Jewish men, women and children into the mass graves and buried them alive. The Jews desperately tried to breath as the soil choked them to death.
The Ukrainian Nazi monsters who committed these atrocities will never be forgiven. Nor will their Nazi grandchildren who regard them as national heroes. May they receive the ultimate punishment both in this world and the next.
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בס''ד
The foundation of all Noahide law is the belief that the seven Noahide commandments come from G-d, the G-d of Israel. The Rambam states that a Gentile who observes the seven Noahide commandments because he considers them to logical is a wise person, but not a ben Noah. Only if the Gentile recognizes that these commandments come from the Torah and the Bible is he a ben Noah. In other words, a ben Noah observes the seven commandments because they are G-d's law.
In the Torah and the Bible, G-d repeatedly warns the nations of the world that they must never go against Israel. In fact, if the nations wish to be blessed, they must bless Israel. If they curse Israel, they will be cursed. Support for Israel and the Jews is the number one precondition that G-d sets for the nations of the world to survive.
Russia and Ukraine have both spilled oceans of Jewish blood for centuries. During the holocaust, the Ukrainian Nazis savagely murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent Jewish men, women and children. In Babi Yar, the Ukrainian Nazis rounded up tens of thousands of unarmed, defenseless Jews and forced them to dig their own graves. The Ukrainian Nazis then threw the Jewish men, women and children into the mass graves and buried them alive. The Jews desperately tried to breath as the soil choked them to death.
The Ukrainian Nazi monsters who committed these atrocities will never be forgiven. Nor will their Nazi grandchildren who regard them as national heroes. May they receive the ultimate punishment both in this world and the next.
Chaim, the thread is about Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I showed the invasion is forbidden in God's eyes. Instead of calling Ukrainians Nazis, why don't you focus on teaching them the Noahide laws so they become better? I could flood you with sources showing the Torah Law basis of Jewish outreach to non-Jews, but it is 5 am in Croatia and I am too tired.
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Chaim, the thread is about Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I showed the invasion is forbidden in God's eyes. Instead of calling Ukrainians Nazis, why don't you focus on teaching them the Noahide laws so they become better? I could flood you with sources showing the Torah Law basis of Jewish outreach to non-Jews, but it is 5 am in Croatia and I am too tired.
Calling them Nazis?
(http://i.ibb.co/VgbZRsH/Zombo-Droid-28022022132849.jpg)
They are calling themeselves.
That's the Azov Regiment (an official state backed unit of the National Guard who are constantly praised by Ukraine's official social media accounts), they are currently getting their behinds handed to them by the Russians in the east of Ukraine.
I know you're Croatian and have an anti Russian bias (I hate them too but not more than the Ukrainians), but dont start excusing it with silly blabbering about Noahide Law.
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Not playing the deflection game. The discussion is not about the Azov Regiment or my Croatian biases. The clear and objective fact is that Russia's war is forbidden by Noahide Law, which means more to me than your subjective opinion.
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Don't forget that Trump is helping Russia invade Ukraine.
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Not playing the deflection game. The discussion is not about the Azov Regiment or my Croatian biases. The clear and objective fact is that Russia's war is forbidden by Noahide Law, which means more to me than your subjective opinion.
Eyes wide shut.