JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ron on March 01, 2022, 10:22:01 AM
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Nothing better than open Holocaust denial by state officials.
Article from Haaretz, in Hebrew.
www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/.premium-1.10643685
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Why should Israel help any country? No one helps Israel, so to hell with the world.
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Why should Israel help any country? No one helps Israel, so to hell with the world.
Exactly. My opinion Israel should be totally isolated, guarded and insular without a care of the outside world. Just Judaic culture and Noahides kinda like monks in Tibet. Where reality is Torah and the world is fake. I think i heard Rav Kahane ZT"L say that last sentence at one of his lectures that has since been removed from zootube.
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Exactly. My opinion Israel should be totally isolated, guarded and insular without a care of the outside world. Just Judaic culture and Noahides kinda like monks in Tibet. Where reality is Torah and the world is fake. I think i heard Rav Kahane ZT"L say that last sentence at one of his lectures that has since been removed from zootube.
The argument that Israel should be isolated because Judaism doesn't proselytize is incorrect. What is the Torah Law basis of Jewish outreach to non-Jews? Moses was commanded by the Almighty to compel all the inhabitants of the world to accept the commandments given to Noah's descendants (Maimonides, Laws of Kings 8:10). Jewish Sages also said that the mitzvah of loving God includes calling out to all mankind to serve God (exalted be He) and to believe in Him. This is because when you love a person, for example, you praise him and call out to others to draw close to him. So too, if you truly love God — through your understanding and realization of His true existence — you will certainly spread this true knowledge that you know to the ignorant and the foolish. We see that this mitzvah includes spreading love for God to others from the Sifri: " 'You shall love God,' i.e. make Him beloved among the creatures as your father Avraham did, as it is written, 'The souls that he made in Charan." The meaning of this Sifri: Avraham, as a result of his deep understanding of God, acquired love for God, as the verse testifies, "Avraham, who loved Me". This powerful love therefore caused him to call out to all mankind to believe in God. So too, you shall love Him to the extent that you draw others to Him (Maimonides, Sefer Hamitzvot, Positive Commandment 3). The Jewish Sages and the faithful Rabbinical authorities are commanded to explain the Noahide commandments to the Gentiles, and to teach them how these seven mitzvot should be fulfilled (the Divine Code by Rabbi Weiner, Second Edition, p 28). Tosafot, Tractate Hagigah 13a, states that it is an obligation for the Jews to teach and inform the Gentiles of the seven Noahide commandments.
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Quote from Hrvatski Noahid
The argument that Israel should be isolated because Judaism doesn't proselytize is incorrect. What is the Torah Law basis of Jewish outreach to non-Jews? Moses was commanded by the Almighty to compel all the inhabitants of the world to accept the commandments given to Noah's descendants (Maimonides, Laws of Kings 8:10). Jewish Sages also said that the mitzvah of loving God includes calling out to all mankind to serve God (exalted be He) and to believe in Him.
You are quoting a Jewish value in an ideal situation, however, it is secondary in importance to the value of Separation.
https://palmtreeofdeborah.blogspot.com/search?q=separation has long quotations from Rabbi Kahane, explaining the Jewish value of separation and why it is so important.
During times of persecution, Jews have generally distanced themselves from efforts to convince outsiders (that is to say, Gentiles) of our truth because it wasn't worth the dangers it might bring.
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During times of persecution, Jews have generally distanced themselves from efforts to convince outsiders (that is to say, Gentiles) of our truth because it wasn't worth the dangers it might bring.
The Rebbe explained that by Divine Providence, the freedoms of religion and speech in our modern societies make it possible – and thus obligatory – for Jews to now be involved in spreading out the Noahide laws.
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Not every Jew has the capability of doing outreach even for fellow Jews and all the more so for Gentiles. If they would try to do outreach they would be pulled down spiritually by the other side, rather than pulling the other side up.
In addition, if the Chief [State] Rabbis of Israel and the UK attend Muslim Iftar celebrations causing a violation of both Jewish Halacha and Noahide Law by their actions; this is an indication that it is not enough to take the Jew out of exile. You also have to take the exile (attitudes) out of the Jew.
Finally you Hrvatski Noahid are basing yourself on the outlook of the Rebbe of Lubavitch.
For this issue I am basing myself on Ohr Hachaim Hakadosh to Deuteronomy 33:28 as well as the Rabbi Meir Kahane sources on separation, cited earlier.
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The Rebbe explained that by Divine Providence, the freedoms of religion and speech in our modern societies make it possible – and thus obligatory – for Jews to now be involved in spreading out the Noahide laws.
That would be great and Chabad does outreach to gentiles but Jews are severely broken people. So broken i don't think it could get much worst. In this condition i believe family comes first and saving Jews should be number one priority and that should include all those who live with Jewish identity whether or not they have a Jewish mother. I personally would much rather see a person living with the name Horowitz or Weinberger to be converted and brought home before the conversion of a gentile who was just calling Horowitz a kike under their breathe a few months ago. I know that's not right, but we've had shared negative personal and group experiences for centuries and i can't help feeling that way about it. I know we're taking about Noahide outreach and not conversion but i just believe broken Jews should be priority over everything. It isn't like Noahides can't organize and spread their own word either. That's just my bias.
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Not every Jew has the capability of doing outreach even for fellow Jews and all the more so for Gentiles. If they would try to do outreach they would be pulled down spiritually by the other side, rather than pulling the other side up.
In addition, if the Chief [State] Rabbis of Israel and the UK attend Muslim Iftar celebrations causing a violation of both Jewish Halacha and Noahide Law by their actions; this is an indication that it is not enough to take the Jew out of exile. You also have to take the exile (attitudes) out of the Jew.
Finally you Hrvatski Noahid are basing yourself on the outlook of the Rebbe of Lubavitch.
For this issue I am basing myself on Ohr Hachaim Hakadosh to Deuteronomy 33:28 as well as the Rabbi Meir Kahane sources on separation, cited earlier.
Providing an authoritative explanation of the Noahide commandments is beyond the scope of most Jews and Rabbis. Rabbi Weiner determined the Torah Law for Gentiles more comprehensively in his works Sheva Mitzvot Hashem and the Divine Code. Every Jew who knows Hebrew or English can teach Gentiles by citing them.
Rabbi Kahane attended the first international Noahide conference on April 30, 1990. Obviously, then, he believed separation has its limits.
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That would be great and Chabad does outreach to gentiles but Jews are severely broken people. So broken i don't think it could get much worst. In this condition i believe family comes first and saving Jews should be number one priority and that should include all those who live with Jewish identity whether or not they have a Jewish mother. I personally would much rather see a person living with the name Horowitz or Weinberger to be converted and brought home before the conversion of a gentile who was just calling Horowitz a kike under their breathe a few months ago. I know that's not right, but we've had shared negative personal and group experiences for centuries and i can't help feeling that way about it. I know we're taking about Noahide outreach and not conversion but i just believe broken Jews should be priority over everything. It isn't like Noahides can't organize and spread their own word either. That's just my bias.
A person without a Jewish mother or a proper conversion is not Jewish in any way, shape or form. Such persons should be encouraged to remain observant of the Noahide Code.
Noahides are also obligated to spread the 7 commandments as part of the commandment of laws and courts.
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Hrvatski Noahid said:
Providing an authoritative explanation of the Noahide commandments is beyond the scope of most Jews and Rabbis. Rabbi Weiner determined the Torah Law for Gentiles more comprehensively in his works Sheva Mitzvot Hashem and the Divine Code. Every Jew who knows Hebrew or English can teach Gentiles by citing them.
Rabbi Kahane attended the first international Noahide conference on April 30, 1990. Obviously, then, he believed separation has its limits.
I have not read Rabbi Weiner's book, so I cannot comment on it. I might read it one day, but right now I have other priorities, such as, the struggle for Eretz Yisrael and building the Temple.
What you said about Rabbi Kahane is true, but it is probably only for a very special set of Jews.
It is interesting that before making this post I found the following Rabbi Kahane quote at http://www.israel613.com/books/KKE_ERETZ304.pdf
REMOVING THE EXILE FROM ISRAEL IS TEN TIMES
HARDER THAN REMOVING ISRAEL FROM THE EXILE
TO OUR SORROW, THIS DISEASE HAS EVEN
SMITTEN TORAH SCHOLARS.
Obviously, Rabbi Kahane did not mean all Torah scholars, just some.
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Hrvatski Noahid said:I have not read Rabbi Weiner's book, so I cannot comment on it. I might read it one day, but right now I have other priorities, such as, the struggle for Eretz Yisrael and building the Temple.
What you said about Rabbi Kahane is true, but it is probably only for a very special set of Jews.
It is interesting that before making this post I found the following Rabbi Kahane quote at http://www.israel613.com/books/KKE_ERETZ304.pdfObviously, Rabbi Kahane did not mean all Torah scholars, just some.
Considering your priorities, the following ruling of Rabbi Weiner will interest you:
"For any Gentiles who do not accept and observe the Noahide Code, the Jews are commanded to expel them from the Land of Israel, and they are forbidden by Torah Law to dwell there (whether they are expelled or not) (the Divine Code, 2018, p 45).
From the wisdom of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, of righteous memory; words and condensation by Rabbi Tzvi Freeman: "It is not so much that we need to be taken out of exile. It is that we must take the exile out of ourselves."
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The Sages teach that the Avot (forefathers) were Yashar (Straight) and cared about the welfare and well being of the World including idol worshippers.
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:usa+israel: :fist:
Oh yeah, we see how the Ukrainian
Nazis helped Jews in WW2 and how
Russia under Stalin helped the Jewish
people, sure.