JTF.ORG Forum
Kahanist Singles => Righteous Gentile Singles => Topic started by: admin on October 09, 2007, 03:46:55 PM
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I think it should.
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Should we live in a free country and not a religious dictatorship would be a better question.
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Even in Israel, which is a SECULAR dictatorship, intermarriage is banned.
But they let in a lot of intermarried Russian couples. I know a girl who is not Jewish, but her father is, who lives in Natzrat-Ilit (there are a lot of them in Chaifa too, I believe).
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Even in Israel, which is a SECULAR dictatorship, intermarriage is banned.
But they let in a lot of intermarried Russian couples. I know a girl who is not Jewish, but her father is, who lives in Natzrat-Ilit (there are a lot of them in Chaifa too, I believe).
Does she converted? or was raised as jewish? BTW it's the law of the return by witch I coud imigrate to Israel too not intermarriages bann which can be easily tricked by weding in Cyprus; and back to the topic: Yes they shoud be banned.
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Intermarriage between a Jew and a Gentile should not be recognised under civil law in any country. It leads to innocent Jewish kids to be indoctrinated unto breaking the Torah. That's cruel. Imagine the case of a Jewish woman who marries a goy... their children will be Jewish. They have no right to feed them with Treif.
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Once again, this is something that should be forbidden and taught at home as well as in school...
Parents need to be strong...but government should not play a role in banning this practice.
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YES!
I am 200% against the intermarriage of Jews and Christians. No offense to Christians of course, but Jewish kids should be raised Jewish and marry only Jews. Not only is it desired commanded, but people should show a little more pride in their spiritual inheritance. I hate it when the lazy parents say something foolish like "we'll let the kids decide what religion they want to follow when they grow up" Yea right, it doesn't work that way. Oh, I especially hate it when THOSE parents do Chrismukkah.
No ofence to Jews of course but I think that christians shoud not marry any unbeliver including jews; Rabbi Paul called this yoking itself with uneven burden. But the the thread about palestinians who marry jewish women in Israel too.
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The $2000 question is how do you propose to enforce something like this?
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The $2000 question is how do you propose to enforce something like this?
Wew will change the laws in fifty years time when liberals will die out or convert to pisslam and then die out. ::) Are you satisfied Daniel? 8;)
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The $2000 question is how do you propose to enforce something like this?
Wew will change the laws in fifty years time when liberals will die out or convert to pisslam and then die out. ::) Are you satisfied Daniel? 8;)
A law like this might work in Israel. But I just don't see it being realistic to think it would swing here. I mean, what are we gonna do, attach intermarriage onto the Marriage Protection amendment?
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It is commanded in Torah that Jews are to only marry Jews. I think there should be a ban on marrying and being in relationships with members of inferior evil cultures, i.e: muslims, schvartzas, koukarachas, (list others here).
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I chose yes but that shouldn't come as a massive surprise :::D
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If Intermarriage was banned I wouldn't be here . However it can confuse the child.
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I chose yes but that shouldn't come as a massive surprise :::D
I'm not suprised at all; and I voted no; state shud not have the power to regulate religius matters; the US model is the best and state machine have too many power over their serfs already; but I'm against them too.
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I chose yes but that shouldn't come as a massive surprise :::D
I'm not suprised at all; and I voted no; state shud not have the power to regulate religius matters; the US model is the best and state machine have too many power over their serfs already; but I'm against them too.
I knew you would. ::)
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I think Jews should marry Jews and Christians should marry Christians. But nobody should marry Muslimes >:(
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Every JTF-forum member supports The Nuremberg Laws of 1935 in Nazi Germany?
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Every JTF-forum member supports The Nuremberg Laws of 1935 in Nazi Germany?
Do you have a list of the Nuremberg laws? I doubt that any of those laws are of any good.
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Every JTF-forum member supports The Nuremberg Laws of 1935 in Nazi Germany?
Do you have a list of the Nuremberg laws? I doubt that any of those laws are of any good.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/nurmlaw2.html (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/nurmlaw2.html)
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/nurmlaw3.html (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/nurmlaw3.html)
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http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/nurmlaw2.html
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/nurmlaw3.html
No way.. Abolish Section 2 >:(
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Evil Nazis can only make laws for evil. It should be individual Jews who decide who to marry. If they are Torah oriented, they will no doubt marry a fellow Jew.
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Every JTF-forum member supports The Nuremberg Laws of 1935 in Nazi Germany?
what would be a no from me.
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Up till 2004, Let-be-land did not recognise any State which allowed intermarriage, according to the independence declaration in Spanish which said " The countries who deny Israel's right on Jerusalem, legalize intermarriage between Jews and Gentiles and/or allow Jewsh children to be brought up as non-Jews, all these countries are illegal, their laws and rules are invalid, and their authorities are illegitimate and unworthy of any respect or obedience".
In 2004, when English became the official language, and the Constitucion was approved, the clause against States which allow intermarriage was dropped. However we recognise preferently the religious marriage, not the civil one.
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Every JTF-forum member supports The Nuremberg Laws of 1935 in Nazi Germany?
No, the basis comes from G-d's laws, and I belive that most here support following G-d's laws, which came much before the Nuremberg, or any man made law.
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Intermarriage merely continues what the nazis started.
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Intermarriage merely continues what the nazis started.
I agree and definitely think interreligious marriages be banned.
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Every JTF-forum member supports The Nuremberg Laws of 1935 in Nazi Germany?
Do you have a list of the Nuremberg laws? I doubt that any of those laws are of any good.
The Nazis would be against Jews marrying ethnic Germans even if Germans became Jews. The prohibition against Jews intermarrying is not a racial thing. It's purely religious.
My mothers German, she converted to Judaism halachic and married my father who was already Jewish. If they hadn't married, I wouldn't have been born.
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Every JTF-forum member supports The Nuremberg Laws of 1935 in Nazi Germany?
Do you have a list of the Nuremberg laws? I doubt that any of those laws are of any good.
The Nazis would be against Jews marrying ethnic Germans even if Germans became Jews. The prohibition against Jews intermarrying is not a racial thing. It's purely religious.
My mothers German, she converted to Judaism halachic and married my father who was already Jewish. If they hadn't married, I wouldn't have been born.
If your mother had a halachic conversion to Judaism, she is just as Jewish as your father. So there was no interreligious marriage in your situation.
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Well it's made easy for the Christian. We are commanded not to be unequally yokes with unbelievers. And I don't just mean anyone who is "born" Christian because of their place of birth or their family. I mean a Christian who has put their faith in Yeshua and believes the Bible to be the word of G-d and adds nothing to it and subtracts nothing from it. It's the same principle laid out for Jews not to marry pagan foreigners. It's hard enough to make a marriage work if the husband and wife have the same world view, forget about it if you have different world views. Plus an unbeliever will invariably drag the believer down to their level. Just look at how Solomon was corrupted by his pagan wives.
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Yes, without question!!! I believe we should marry within and only within our own. It's sickening to hear that someone is 1/2 Jewish, 1/4 Jewish, 1/3 Jewish, 1/100 Jewish. What the heck does that mean anyway? Either you are or you're not! Honestly, can someone be half man, half woman, or half car and half motorcycle or half and half for your coffee. Milk isn't real milk anymore, the madness must stop!!!
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Yes in Israel, no in America. Israel should be reserved for Jews who value their Jewish identity. Those who wish to step away from Judaism shouldn't be in Israel, but the scope of Jewish law should be limited to Israel.
Because my answer is circumstance-based, I didn't vote.
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Yes in Israel, no in America. Israel should be reserved for Jews who value their Jewish identity. Those who wish to step away from Judaism shouldn't be in Israel, but the scope of Jewish law should be limited to Israel.
Because my answer is circumstance-based, I didn't vote.
Interesting I would have said the opposite. Since by intermarriage in America eventually the Jews will be absorbed and disappear which is actually happening now. It's been said that the Jews in America are being killed by kindness since they can freely intermarry and aren't ghettoized. In Israel, you have a Jewish state so if a Jew becomes a Christian or Hindu or Buddhist, they are still Jewish by blood and the Jewish state protects their identity. The only thing that would endanger Jewish identity in Israel is if the Arabic Muslims became a very large part of the population percentage wise and destroyed the Jewish identity of the state. I assume that is the main purpose of the right of return of refugees. Flood Israel with millions of Arabs and obliterate Israel.
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Since by intermarriage in America eventually the Jews will be absorbed and disappear which is actually happening now.
My opinion is that if they are living outside of Israel and intermarrying, they aren't committed enough to be Jewish in the first place. I don't think someone can be externally convinced to be a devout Jew, the drive has to be an internal drive. If the drive is not there, then there isn't much that can and arguably should be done to change it.
By living outside of Israel and intermarrying, Jews have basically left the religious community by choice, a choice no-one can change, and while they may have ethnic ties, they are basically separated.
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Since by intermarriage in America eventually the Jews will be absorbed and disappear which is actually happening now.
My opinion is that if they are living outside of Israel and intermarrying, they aren't committed enough to be Jewish in the first place. I don't think someone can be externally convinced to be a devout Jew, the drive has to be an internal drive. If the drive is not there, then there isn't much that can and arguably should be done to change it.
By living outside of Israel and intermarrying, Jews have basically left the religious community by choice, a choice no-one can change, and while they may have ethnic ties, they are basically separated.
I believe the whole scenario is only solvable if the law sets down a clear definition of Jew and non-Jew. In my opinion, the best way to avoid religious disputes is for one member of the couple to drop his or her religion and convert to the other. That way there is not as must dishonesty. If the Jews consider it an act of betrayal for a Jewish girl to marry a gentile man, than it is only decent for her to drop her pretended Judaism. Likewise, if a gentile man is in love with a Jewish girl who refuses to leave Judaism, it is only decent for him to walk away and leave her alone.
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A lot of people say it is about religion, and not ethnicity. But the thing is that there are atheistic and christian people with Jewish mothers who would still be considered Jews, therefore you can't say religious affiliation is the only factor here. If atheist Jews were counted as gentiles, then it would religion. That being said, I still think Israel (but not the rest of the world) should ban it, otherwise it isn't a Jewish state.
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Yes! No one should marry someone they cannot have such an important life-long goal with. Jews should ONLY marry Jews and Christians should only marry those that they are equally yoked with.
As far as skin, if a white Jew and a black Jew married one another, I would be very happy for them and would have no problem AT ALL.
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A lot of people say it is about religion, and not ethnicity. But the thing is that there are atheistic and christian people with Jewish mothers who would still be considered Jews, therefore you can't say religious affiliation is the only factor here. If atheist Jews were counted as gentiles, then it would religion. That being said, I still think Israel (but not the rest of the world) should ban it, otherwise it isn't a Jewish state.
It is about religion to the religious Jews, and because religion requires a more complex creed, than the race, the ethnic look and beauty, I tend to start with religion. I wouldn't want the guilt of forcing a Jewish girl to deny something she secretly believes in, though I would not feel guilty if she really gave it up willingly. And, as for race, well, I consider Ashkenazi Jews to be European, so in the same way in which I wouldn't perceive of myself, as defiling Swedishness to marry a Swede, I wouldn't feel I was defiling Jewish blood in any significant way.
My view is also circumstance based. As I understand it, Israel is set up to be a Jewish state, and as such Jewish rules should apply.
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I consider "european" to be a vague term with no scientific validity.
And I understand that Judaism commands people to recognize non-practicing Jews as Jews, but I'm saying if you go by that, it becomes an ancestry game, not an affiliation game. I'm fine with Israel playing an ancestry game though.
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I consider "european" to be a vague term with no scientific validity.
And I understand that Judaism commands people to recognize non-practicing Jews as Jews, but I'm saying if you go by that, it becomes an ancestry game, not an affiliation game. I'm fine with Israel playing an ancestry game though.
European is more of a social-cultural term. I agree that scientifically you can find plenty of extra-European ethnic groups like Turks, Israelis and Iranians who approximately fit into the Caucasian category. European, however has more of a history to it, and since Jews have dwelt in Europe for such long periods of time, much of their history goes back very far, as does their genes.
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On my birthright trip they attacked me for saying that Jews should only marry Jews. Infact my Refrom Liberal Obama supporting friend called me a racist. He wasn't the only one
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On my birthright trip they attacked me for saying that Jews should only marry Jews. Infact my Refrom Liberal Obama supporting friend called me a racist. He wasn't the only one
Reference them to the Torah where it says that it is forbidden. Tell them that G-d is agains't it and ask them if they know better then G-d.
Show them this video http://torahanytime.com/rav_mizrachi.html
01/08/08 Intermarriage
Which was a big hit, and where even many gentiles called Rabbi Mizrahi afterwards in agreement and thanks.
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Western thought is against racial/ethnic loyalty. That is why westerners do not like the fact that Judaism inherits membership based on blood. I happen to support ethno-nationalism as a theoretical concept, therefore I have nothing against Jews wanting to preserve their ethnic identity, just like I would have nothing against Spanish, Italian, or Russian people doing the same thing. If two liberals want to marry across ethnic lines, they shouldn't do it in a Jewish state of course, and they shouldn't claim to be upholding religious tradition while they do it. Perhaps what annoys me is people who claim they are being observant Jews and intermarrying. It's the dishonesty. If people intermarry and admit they are not following Judaism, then it doesn't annoy me as much.
While I think ethnic preservation is a good thing, attempts to say "it is just religion" are simply dishonest, there is an ethnic component too. Christians, Muslims, and Buddhists do not assign membership based on birth. Only Hindus and Jews do.
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Yes, ban it. O0
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Muslims say everyone was born Muslim until choosing something else.
Yeah, I hate it when they say that. What a cheap and sleazy way to pretend that their religion is universal. Those weasels!
They can believe whatever they want. If they want to convert us forcibly, or steal our land, that is where they cross the line for me.
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Muslims say everyone was born Muslim until choosing something else.
Yeah, I hate it when they say that. What a cheap and sleazy way to pretend that their religion is universal. Those weasels!
Weasels? ;D
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Weasels? ;D
Yes that's what I call them when I'm mad. LOL, I don't cuss but I call them weasels instead. :laugh:
I see.
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Muslims believe someone can stop being a Muslim just by quitting the religion. But Jews (at least Orthodox) don't believe someone can stop being a Jew. They believe that person can stop practicing Judaism, but they become a non-practicing Jew, not a Gentile. Someone who quits Islam becomes an Infidel, indistinguishable from other Infidels. They do not become "non-practicing" Muslims.
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Yes it should. It just creates unnecessary division among the child. If he/she chooses one religion, the parent of the other religion will disown him. If he comes out as an atheist, then the parents are to blame for turning him away from G-d. So I believe that IR marriages should be banned.
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I do belive Jews should marry Jews and I hope none of other Jews on the site are offended, but thereis nothing in Torah barring Jew from marrying gentile and it should not be banned. Perhaps people forget that King David's mother was a Moabite? Also, many other great Jews came from half Jewish marriages, even those where only the Father was a Jew. I think the whole concept of you are a Jew because your mother is a Jew came from the fact that our women where getting raped all the time by Cossack and other europeans during our diaspora in Europe. It is shame for me to say, but many of us, including: Ashkenazi, Sephardim and Mizrachi are undoubtedly half-breeds. This is not to say that I desire to see us become less and less Jewish, however, with the lack of religious teaching and authority in Israel, our Jewish ways will die long before we intermarry with gentiles.
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Also, many other great Jews came from half Jewish marriages, even those where only the Father was a Jew.
The rules changed in recent history, and now people (except for the karaite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karaite_Judaism) branch) have decided to go by the mother instead.
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I do belive Jews should marry Jews and I hope none of other Jews on the site are offended, but thereis nothing in Torah barring Jew from marrying gentile and it should not be banned. Perhaps people forget that King David's mother was a Moabite? Also, many other great Jews came from half Jewish marriages, even those where only the Father was a Jew. I think the whole concept of you are a Jew because your mother is a Jew came from the fact that our women where getting raped all the time by Cossack and other europeans during our diaspora in Europe. It is shame for me to say, but many of us, including: Ashkenazi, Sefaradim and Mizrachi are undoubtedly half-breeds. This is not to say that I desire to see us become less and less Jewish, however, with the lack of religious teaching and authority in Israel, our Jewish ways will die long before we intermarry with gentiles.
You are an ignorant fool. The status of a Jew by its mother is written in the Gemara.
Ok.. maybe I am wrong.. Some say Ruth is not Moabite, but an Israelite living in Moab. I just don't understand why Tanakh uses the matriarchal lineage of David addressing her as Moabite, when it never addresses other Israelites as Moabites, regardless of where they live. Also, why was it permitted for men to marry the daughters and produce offspring with pagan girls? Why did Shlomo marry 300 different women, many hailing from foreign lands, to increase hise lineage, if his lineage would be excluded from the benefits of being an Israelite? I am saying some things are not adding up and I do not adhere to all Talmud teachings, but respect many.
In the end, maybe you are the ignorant fool... sorry if you slander me, is it ok to slander back? or are moderators only allowed to slap people in the face on this board? I wonder how JTF will survive, when its moderators behave so belligerent. I think others will get a bad impression of this site. I respect if I am wrong, but to call people names is not much better than the way muslims practice religion.
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it is wrong like a black and a white the kids will be mixed breeds
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But we might get another person like obama if we dont ban that
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you are right and what i posted before was wrong because i was letting off steam
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I do belive Jews should marry Jews and I hope none of other Jews on the site are offended, but thereis nothing in Torah barring Jew from marrying gentile and it should not be banned. Perhaps people forget that King David's mother was a Moabite?
His mother wasn't a Moabite. His grandfather's mother was a Moabite.
And she converted so was was Jewish too. Jewishness is not race but religion+ethnicity+nationality only shitler belived otherwise.
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I do belive Jews should marry Jews and I hope none of other Jews on the site are offended, but thereis nothing in Torah barring Jew from marrying gentile and it should not be banned. Perhaps people forget that King David's mother was a Moabite? Also, many other great Jews came from half Jewish marriages, even those where only the Father was a Jew. I think the whole concept of you are a Jew because your mother is a Jew came from the fact that our women where getting raped all the time by Cossack and other europeans during our diaspora in Europe. It is shame for me to say, but many of us, including: Ashkenazi, Sefaradim and Mizrachi are undoubtedly half-breeds. This is not to say that I desire to see us become less and less Jewish, however, with the lack of religious teaching and authority in Israel, our Jewish ways will die long before we intermarry with gentiles.
You are an ignorant fool. The status of a Jew by its mother is written in the Gemara.
Ok.. maybe I am wrong.. Some say Ruth is not Moabite, but an Israelite living in Moab. I just don't understand why Tanakh uses the matriarchal lineage of David addressing her as Moabite, when it never addresses other Israelites as Moabites, regardless of where they live. Also, why was it permitted for men to marry the daughters and produce offspring with pagan girls? Why did Shlomo marry 300 different women, many hailing from foreign lands, to increase hise lineage, if his lineage would be excluded from the benefits of being an Israelite? I am saying some things are not adding up and I do not adhere to all Talmud teachings, but respect many.
In the end, maybe you are the ignorant fool... sorry if you slander me, is it ok to slander back? or are moderators only allowed to slap people in the face on this board? I wonder how JTF will survive, when its moderators behave so belligerent. I think others will get a bad impression of this site. I respect if I am wrong, but to call people names is not much better than the way muslims practice religion.
All of these are good questions, some of which I'm pretty sure I have the answers to. To start off, it is clearly prohibited to marry gentiles. Second of all, Shlomo's marriages led to his downfall. He violated two Torah prohibitions; one against marrying goyot, the other against the King of Israel having too many wives.
And I'm not "slandering" you. When you speak complete Reformist nonsense about the Jewish religion and theorize on matters that pitifully display your theological ignorance, I'm going to call you out on it. This is arrogance, and it is totally different than simply asking a question, which all of us are open to here. Like you said, there are others that view this forum, and I don't appreciate another ignorant Jew viewing your post and coming to the same confused conclusions.
I wonder who is the reformist? Are you telling me that nobody in Tanach married a goyim and converted her to Judiasm? Personally, I think you may be taking Talmudic texts out of context or not understanding me. You are saying inter-racial marriage should be banned, I am saying inter-racial marriage should not be banned. Of course, any man who marry a non-Jewish woman, should have her convert through the traditional means. However, there is many other instances of G-d allowing marriage and conversion of goyim to Judaism. Besides Ruth, we have an example of Moshe marrying an Cushite woman. When Miryam spoke out against Moshe for doing this, G-d punished her with leprosy. Now, are you accusing Moshe of sinning for marrying Cushite woman? I do not recall this was a sin in the bible, the only sin was Miryam speaking out against him for dishonoring G-d's servant. Also, the Torah speaks of Jewish men in battle being allowed to marry virgins if the women are willing. Why would G-d let us marry virgins from certain races that are not Jewish, if doing so would make the children not Jews? Would G-d allow such a thing? There is a flaw in logic I resent from those and they try to manipulate it by pointing to such a verse in Talmud and trying to alter the logic. My belief is that if the mother is not spiritually a Jew, then perhaps we cannot consider the child a Jew. My ultimate authority is Torah and all others will come next.
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Re: "...Also, the Torah speaks of Jewish men in battle being allowed to marry virgins if the women are willing. Why would G-d let us marry virgins from certain races that are not Jewish, if doing so would make the children not Jews? Would G-d allow such a thing?
That's an easy one!
Because if the women are "willing", they're obviously not virgins! ;D
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Re: "...Also, the Torah speaks of Jewish men in battle being allowed to marry virgins if the women are willing. Why would G-d let us marry virgins from certain races that are not Jewish, if doing so would make the children not Jews? Would G-d allow such a thing?
That's an easy one!
Because if the women are "willing", they're obviously not virgins! ;D
Was the Cushite Moshe married not a virgin? Would you speak out against Moshe marrying a black skin woman who was not an Israelite?
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Re: "...Also, the Torah speaks of Jewish men in battle being allowed to marry virgins if the women are willing. Why would G-d let us marry virgins from certain races that are not Jewish, if doing so would make the children not Jews? Would G-d allow such a thing?
That's an easy one!
Because if the women are "willing", they're obviously not virgins! ;D
Was the Cushite Moshe married not a virgin? Would you speak out against Moshe marrying a black skin woman who was not an Israelite?
She was a convert, and she didn't have black skin. And yes, she was a virgin.
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You can't ban atheists like me from marrying and having the same rights as you religious people have.
What is this Iran?
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no
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Our faiths are whats important! :)