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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: admin on October 09, 2007, 09:23:04 PM

Title: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: admin on October 09, 2007, 09:23:04 PM
I think it should.

Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: genteelgentile on October 09, 2007, 09:24:38 PM
What would you feed to the Arabs as they leave... ;D
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: New Yorker on October 09, 2007, 09:26:08 PM


Christians eat pork, if the Christians in Israel want to eat pork and buy and sell it to each other I see absolutely no problem with it.
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Eliezer Ben Avraham on October 09, 2007, 09:26:54 PM
If Israel is a Jewish State it should have a Jewish Character and Kashrut is an important part of Judaism and therefore we should require Jews to keep it.
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Eliezer Ben Avraham on October 09, 2007, 09:31:42 PM


Christians eat pork, if the Christians in Israel want to eat pork and buy and sell it to each other I see absolutely no problem with it.
The issue is that if Pork is available to Christians, Jews will have access too.....
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: genteelgentile on October 09, 2007, 09:33:45 PM
Serious question.. What is a typical Israeli breakfast?  Is there one?
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Eliezer Ben Avraham on October 09, 2007, 09:40:27 PM
Salads.


for breakfast? thats  different....
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Mishmaat on October 09, 2007, 09:45:01 PM
Of course it should.
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: New Yorker on October 09, 2007, 09:48:24 PM


Christians eat pork, if the Christians in Israel want to eat pork and buy and sell it to each other I see absolutely no problem with it.
The issue is that if Pork is available to Christians, Jews will have access too.....

An observant Jew should have SELF CONTROL, he shouldn't be observant because he has no choice, he should be observant inspite of there being a choice. Otherwise it is quite insincere.
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Ehud on October 09, 2007, 09:50:16 PM
Serious question.. What is a typical Israeli breakfast?  Is there one?

They definitely don't eat sausages, bacon, cheese, omelettes, mass quantities of eggs, biscuits and gravy etc.  They think Americans are insane for eating so much rich and fattening foods for breakfast, and I tend to agree that it is insane if done on a daily basis.  I do enjoy a hearty American breakfast though, my favorite is beef sausage, eggs, hash browns, home fries, biscuits and gravy, and fruit.

I think the typical Israeli breakfast isn't so different than the typical American breakfast, coffee, cereal, yogurt, maybe some fruit.  I've never heard of Israelis eating salads for breakfast, I could be wrong though.
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: New Yorker on October 09, 2007, 10:00:50 PM


Breakfast for me is whole wheat toast, eggwhite omlette, coffee with skim milk and Splenda. High protein, moderate carb, low fat.  O0
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Jasmina on October 09, 2007, 10:01:39 PM
 >:(
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: New Yorker on October 09, 2007, 10:02:13 PM
>:(

Yasmine's pissed!  ;D
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Lisa on October 09, 2007, 10:07:27 PM
Quote
They definitely don't eat sausages, bacon, cheese, omelettes, mass quantities of eggs, biscuits and gravy etc.  They think Americans are insane for eating so much rich and fattening foods for breakfast, and I tend to agree that it is insane if done on a daily basis.  I do enjoy a hearty American breakfast though, my favorite is beef sausage, eggs, hash browns, home fries, biscuits and gravy, and fruit.

You don't keep kosher?
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Ehud on October 09, 2007, 10:08:25 PM


Breakfast for me is whole wheat toast, eggwhite omlette, coffee with skim milk and Splenda. High protein, moderate carb, low fat.  O0


Chaim would like all that except for the coffee and milk. He says you shouldn't eat dairy at all. At first I thought you had written soy milk which he probably would agree with.



Chaim has a good point about the milk.  It's actually not healthy for most people to drink milk when they are older.  It makes people feel worse, and there isn't any particular justification for it.  My family and I did a health test and were suggested taking measures that would help us feel better generally in our lives and one of these things included not drinking any milk.  It's sort of an American myth that milk is healthy all the time; it can make you feel worse and it is fattening if you drink too much of it.
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Ehud on October 09, 2007, 10:10:08 PM
Quote
They definitely don't eat sausages, bacon, cheese, omelettes, mass quantities of eggs, biscuits and gravy etc.  They think Americans are insane for eating so much rich and fattening foods for breakfast, and I tend to agree that it is insane if done on a daily basis.  I do enjoy a hearty American breakfast though, my favorite is beef sausage, eggs, hash browns, home fries, biscuits and gravy, and fruit.

You don't keep kosher?

Not in the strict sense, but I do not eat pork.  There's nothing really unkosher about what I said I eat, unless you want to get technical about it.   ;) 
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Lisa on October 09, 2007, 10:21:17 PM
Oops, I just saw the "sausages" part. 
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 09, 2007, 10:29:39 PM
yacov,Tell us a little bit about your self,If you don't mind.It would enlighten us a bit.NO dis respect intended!Wayne Jude
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Ari on October 09, 2007, 10:53:46 PM
No real reason for it in Israel.  I think it should be.  I think all the food in Israel should be kosher.
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 09, 2007, 11:12:24 PM
Yacov ? please!
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Dr. Dan on October 09, 2007, 11:47:31 PM
but pigs should be allowed to roam or be kept as pets...at least for the time being for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Tzvi Ben Roshel1 on October 09, 2007, 11:57:52 PM
It should be banned. By the way it can also solve the problem with the russian goyim in Israel, they cant live without their pork kalbasa.
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer on October 10, 2007, 12:26:04 AM
Yes. Good idea. Most Jews should be encouraged to keep kosher. Lobster, shrimp and all other kinds of shell fish should be banned as well. All non-Kosher food should be banned.

India doesn't serve beef in their restaurants, so Israel should abide by Jewish law.

The only thing that troubles me about such a possible decision is that Jews should want to keep kosher, they shouldn't be forced to do so, because deep down if they really don't want to, what's the point of them keeping kosher? But since Israel should be run as a Torah-true Jewish state, the existence of non-kosher restaurants should be done away with.

Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: New Yorker on October 10, 2007, 12:26:25 AM
but pigs should be allowed to roam or be kept as pets...at least for the time being for obvious reasons.

If I got a pet pig I'd name him Kosher.  That would be soooo funny, com'here Kosher! Here Kosher! "oink oink..." That's a good piggy, good boy Kosher!   ;D
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Tzvi Ben Roshel1 on October 10, 2007, 12:38:28 AM

The only thing that troubles me about such a possible decision is that Jews should want to keep kosher, they shouldn't be forced to do so.


I disagree. As a society (Religious) the wanted results should be "forced" so to speak unto the population. Thier is a saying "the actions influnce the heart", not the other way around. Once you start keeping mitzvot after a while you can even love it. I know that you are speaking about choice, but this is really a western concept. Let me ask you should you have a choice to robe someone or should the owner of the house (etc.) do whats necessary to prevent any robbery.
 Also a classical example is the example with King Hezkiyah (Peace be upon him- whats the exact Hebrew term? Alava veshalom? I hear the Rabbi saying it but dont know if im pronouncing it right). When the Assyrians were coming, he swonge his sword on the door and said that anyone who will be ignorant, he will basically use his sword on them.( it was in order to get G-d's grace and save the nation). After some time the whole nation was learned in Torah and rightious, threw the actions their hearts were influenced.
 Remember G-d tests and gives choice, the duty of us is to wage the battle even way ahead of time against the Satan/Yetzer Hara/ Angel of death (which is all one).
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Sarah on October 10, 2007, 12:45:12 AM
Yes pork should be banned in  Israel. If one rule is let loose, then a lot more will follow.....
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer on October 10, 2007, 12:49:29 AM

The only thing that troubles me about such a possible decision is that Jews should want to keep kosher, they shouldn't be forced to do so.


I disagree. As a society (Religious) the wanted results should be "forced" so to speak unto the population. Thier is a saying "the actions influnce the heart", not the other way around. Once you start keeping mitzvot after a while you can even love it. I know that you are speaking about choice, but this is really a western concept. Let me ask you should you have a choice to robe someone or should the owner of the house (etc.) do whats necessary to prevent any robbery.
 Also a classical example is the example with King Hezkiyah (Peace be upon him- whats the exact Hebrew term? Alava veshalom? I hear the Rabbi saying it but dont know if im pronouncing it right). When the Assyrians were coming, he swonge his sword on the door and said that anyone who will be ignorant, he will basically use his sword on them.( it was in order to get G-d's grace and save the nation). After some time the whole nation was learned in Torah and rightious, threw the actions their hearts were influenced.
 Remember G-d tests and gives choice, the duty of us is to wage the battle even way ahead of time against the Satan/Yetzer Hara/ Angel of death (which is all one).

But this is not so for all at the moment. There are too many self-hating Jews in Israel, and a sudden ban on pork or all non-kosher food, would drive them even further away from Judaism.

If a stronger influence of religion is brought back to Israel, then, this will no longer be an issue. With stronger morals, all Jews will accept such a ban, and won't even mind it, because they are keeping Kosher away.
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Tzvi Ben Roshel1 on October 10, 2007, 12:59:33 AM

The only thing that troubles me about such a possible decision is that Jews should want to keep kosher, they shouldn't be forced to do so.


I disagree. As a society (Religious) the wanted results should be "forced" so to speak unto the population. Thier is a saying "the actions influnce the heart", not the other way around. Once you start keeping mitzvot after a while you can even love it. I know that you are speaking about choice, but this is really a western concept. Let me ask you should you have a choice to robe someone or should the owner of the house (etc.) do whats necessary to prevent any robbery.
 Also a classical example is the example with King Hezkiyah (Peace be upon him- whats the exact Hebrew term? Alava veshalom? I hear the Rabbi saying it but dont know if im pronouncing it right). When the Assyrians were coming, he swonge his sword on the door and said that anyone who will be ignorant, he will basically use his sword on them.( it was in order to get G-d's grace and save the nation). After some time the whole nation was learned in Torah and rightious, threw the actions their hearts were influenced.
 Remember G-d tests and gives choice, the duty of us is to wage the battle even way ahead of time against the Satan/Yetzer Hara/ Angel of death (which is all one).

But this is not so for all at the moment. There are too many self-hating Jews in Israel, and a sudden ban on pork or all non-kosher food, would drive them even further away from Judaism.


Not true. Their are many even non-obervant Jews who do keep Kosher. Many Jews want their to be only Kosher and in most places their are. The ones who particularly are against this are russian goyim and some leftists, (I saw on RTVI reporting from Israel). Some Jews (Haredim) wanted to close down the pork feeding places, and some russian goyim were discussing how they cant let this happen because now its kosher tomorrow its Jewish women not dressing up as sluts. (they by the way actually understand the situation and the fact that their is a social battle and are willing to wage it) we also need to wage it and at the same time raise the standards and be more dominent, and not lower them and have them dictated by any anti-Torah group or coalition.
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer on October 10, 2007, 01:11:05 AM

The only thing that troubles me about such a possible decision is that Jews should want to keep kosher, they shouldn't be forced to do so.


I disagree. As a society (Religious) the wanted results should be "forced" so to speak unto the population. Thier is a saying "the actions influnce the heart", not the other way around. Once you start keeping mitzvot after a while you can even love it. I know that you are speaking about choice, but this is really a western concept. Let me ask you should you have a choice to robe someone or should the owner of the house (etc.) do whats necessary to prevent any robbery.
 Also a classical example is the example with King Hezkiyah (Peace be upon him- whats the exact Hebrew term? Alava veshalom? I hear the Rabbi saying it but dont know if im pronouncing it right). When the Assyrians were coming, he swonge his sword on the door and said that anyone who will be ignorant, he will basically use his sword on them.( it was in order to get G-d's grace and save the nation). After some time the whole nation was learned in Torah and rightious, threw the actions their hearts were influenced.
 Remember G-d tests and gives choice, the duty of us is to wage the battle even way ahead of time against the Satan/Yetzer Hara/ Angel of death (which is all one).

But this is not so for all at the moment. There are too many self-hating Jews in Israel, and a sudden ban on pork or all non-kosher food, would drive them even further away from Judaism.


Not true. Their are many even non-obervant Jews who do keep Kosher. Many Jews want their to be only Kosher and in most places their are. The ones who particularly are against this are russian goyim and some leftists, (I saw on RTVI reporting from Israel). Some Jews (Haredim) wanted to close down the pork feeding places, and some russian goyim were discussing how they cant let this happen because now its kosher tomorrow its Jewish women not dressing up as sluts. (they by the way actually understand the situation and the fact that their is a social battle and are willing to wage it) we also need to wage it and at the same time raise the standards and be more dominent, and not lower them and have them dictated by any anti-Torah group or coalition.
Yes, their are plenty observers of kashrut, but you cannot deny that there are some who do not keep kosher. There are plenty of self-hating Jews in Israel who do not keep kosher. Non-observing Jews are most likely not to keep kosher, because they lack Torah-true influence or lifestyles.

The fact that non-kosher food is served in Israel demonstrates that the corrupt Israeli goverment does not take the Holy Land's religious background to heart. Such a ban will not be enforced by the current government, because the government is a secular entity, comprised of self-hating Jews.
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Raulmarrio2000 on October 10, 2007, 02:04:33 AM
To keep Kosher properly, Jews need much more than abstaining from pork. Meat must be Kosher, and eaten separately from milk. Banning pork will not assure that Jews will keep kosher. Even if all food in Israel is Kosher, they can mix it in a forbidden way (milk and meat). But I voted YES, because those secularist parents won't have pork to impurify their children, at least.
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 10, 2007, 02:05:50 AM
Pork is full of worms .Its gross!
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: newman on October 10, 2007, 03:46:22 AM
Yes. Israel is a JEWISH state.

However, stocks of canned bacon should be kept in police and army stores to rub on and force-feed to the muslims.
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Dr. Dan on October 10, 2007, 07:28:20 AM

The only thing that troubles me about such a possible decision is that Jews should want to keep kosher, they shouldn't be forced to do so.


I disagree. As a society (Religious) the wanted results should be "forced" so to speak unto the population. Thier is a saying "the actions influnce the heart", not the other way around. Once you start keeping mitzvot after a while you can even love it. I know that you are speaking about choice, but this is really a western concept. Let me ask you should you have a choice to robe someone or should the owner of the house (etc.) do whats necessary to prevent any robbery.
 Also a classical example is the example with King Hezkiyah (Peace be upon him- whats the exact Hebrew term? Alava veshalom? I hear the Rabbi saying it but dont know if im pronouncing it right). When the Assyrians were coming, he swonge his sword on the door and said that anyone who will be ignorant, he will basically use his sword on them.( it was in order to get G-d's grace and save the nation). After some time the whole nation was learned in Torah and rightious, threw the actions their hearts were influenced.
 Remember G-d tests and gives choice, the duty of us is to wage the battle even way ahead of time against the Satan/Yetzer Hara/ Angel of death (which is all one).

But this is not so for all at the moment. There are too many self-hating Jews in Israel, and a sudden ban on pork or all non-kosher food, would drive them even further away from Judaism.


Not true. Their are many even non-obervant Jews who do keep Kosher. Many Jews want their to be only Kosher and in most places their are. The ones who particularly are against this are russian goyim and some leftists, (I saw on RTVI reporting from Israel). Some Jews (Haredim) wanted to close down the pork feeding places, and some russian goyim were discussing how they cant let this happen because now its kosher tomorrow its Jewish women not dressing up as sluts. (they by the way actually understand the situation and the fact that their is a social battle and are willing to wage it) we also need to wage it and at the same time raise the standards and be more dominent, and not lower them and have them dictated by any anti-Torah group or coalition.

Be careful, Tzvi...this isn't the right way....the truth is there are a lot of wonderful sweet non observant Jews that have to be turned in the right direction...and MANY are very cautious with religious due to the bad name SOME Hasidim have given to it...The best way is to be subtle and to show by example how wonderful certain things are..little by little...I already think Birth Right attempts this
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Dexter on October 10, 2007, 08:46:17 AM
Serious question.. What is a typical Israeli breakfast?  Is there one?
There is no typical Israeli breakfast.
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: MarZutra on October 10, 2007, 09:36:17 AM
Of course Pork should be banned in Eretz.  Like Savage says for America: "Borders, Language, Culture" which dictate a Jewish State with laws on the moral pillars of all productive functioning societies...the Torah/Noahide Laws.....with a Sanhedrin.

I would be talked into setting up pig farming and slaugtering in very remote locations for export purposes to the Muslim world as "Kosher" or halāl "Beef" product.   ;)
Title: Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
Post by: Tzvi Ben Roshel1 on October 10, 2007, 02:44:20 PM

The only thing that troubles me about such a possible decision is that Jews should want to keep kosher, they shouldn't be forced to do so.


I disagree. As a society (Religious) the wanted results should be "forced" so to speak unto the population. Thier is a saying "the actions influnce the heart", not the other way around. Once you start keeping mitzvot after a while you can even love it. I know that you are speaking about choice, but this is really a western concept. Let me ask you should you have a choice to robe someone or should the owner of the house (etc.) do whats necessary to prevent any robbery.
 Also a classical example is the example with King Hezkiyah (Peace be upon him- whats the exact Hebrew term? Alava veshalom? I hear the Rabbi saying it but dont know if im pronouncing it right). When the Assyrians were coming, he swonge his sword on the door and said that anyone who will be ignorant, he will basically use his sword on them.( it was in order to get G-d's grace and save the nation). After some time the whole nation was learned in Torah and rightious, threw the actions their hearts were influenced.
 Remember G-d tests and gives choice, the duty of us is to wage the battle even way ahead of time against the Satan/Yetzer Hara/ Angel of death (which is all one).

But this is not so for all at the moment. There are too many self-hating Jews in Israel, and a sudden ban on pork or all non-kosher food, would drive them even further away from Judaism.


Not true. Their are many even non-obervant Jews who do keep Kosher. Many Jews want their to be only Kosher and in most places their are. The ones who particularly are against this are russian goyim and some leftists, (I saw on RTVI reporting from Israel). Some Jews (Haredim) wanted to close down the pork feeding places, and some russian goyim were discussing how they cant let this happen because now its kosher tomorrow its Jewish women not dressing up as sluts. (they by the way actually understand the situation and the fact that their is a social battle and are willing to wage it) we also need to wage it and at the same time raise the standards and be more dominent, and not lower them and have them dictated by any anti-Torah group or coalition.

Be careful, Tzvi...this isn't the right way....the truth is there are a lot of wonderful sweet non observant Jews that have to be turned in the right direction...and MANY are very cautious with religious due to the bad name SOME Hasidim have given to it...The best way is to be subtle and to show by example how wonderful certain things are..little by little...I already think Birth Right attempts this

What are you talking about ??? In this post I said that even many non-observent in Israel keep kosher, did you read my post?