Author Topic: How do jews treat their women?  (Read 9426 times)

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Offline Sarah

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How do jews treat their women?
« on: November 26, 2006, 12:08:44 PM »
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« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 02:13:01 PM by Sarah »

Offline fjack

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2006, 12:34:30 PM »
Jews and Christians treat their women with respect unlike the cult of islam followers do. One day when you shack up with a camel jockey, there is a good possiblilty that he will:, bring another pet pig into the home, say he divoreces you three times and then throws you out in the street, cut your throat or burn you alive on a pyre. Any of the above would be okay with me. That is the way of your people.

Offline Hail Columbia

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2006, 04:54:17 PM »
One thing is certain, unlike a certain major religion, Jews don't treat their women like property, or to be more specific, like farm equipment.


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Offline genteelgentile

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2006, 11:11:34 PM »
From what I have seen, Jewish women that have families are VERY happy.  They know their husbands are good men.  My contact with Jews is limited to Sundays at the local library, but I see strong families that are happy.  Maybe that doesn't answer your question, though.
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Offline fjack

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2006, 07:23:43 AM »
Aggressive! I don't bomb people for fun or for the sake of some cult leader sand negro. It is your cult islam that is the aggressor here. If you are not engaged in aggressio how do explain your presence in my country. You want this country to accept you and your filthy animal cult ideology. That is aggression. You should leave this country or renounce your vile cult activities. One day this country will wake up and their will be a cleansing of this country like you will not believe. If I were you I would leave now before Civil War 2 begins. It will not be funny. You being a muslim will pick the evil side and you know what happens when good vs. evil. Get out now while you still have a chance.

Offline davkakach

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2006, 07:41:48 AM »
just a question.... :)
Jewish men usually treat women well.  That is why in Russia, for example, Russian women preferred to marry Jewish men, because they knew that they would not have drinking problems or beat them.

As for how Jewish women treat Jewish men...  ::)  that's a different story.
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Offline GentileLady

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2006, 11:10:09 AM »
Very well.  It is my understanding that the Ketubah (traditional marriage document/contract) requires the husband to provide not only for the physical support, but emotional support of the wife and children.  It is a shame that has to be spelled out, but Christians could take a lesson from this.

It is my understanding that the Ketubah also specifies the support and maintenance due in the event of divorce; something courts are free to modify if it is insufficient, but it can be more generous than that which would be required by secular law.  It can also require the husband to grant a "get" (religioius divorce decree) to the wife in the event the marriage fails.  It is legally enforceable if referenced in a non-religious pre-nuptial agreement. 

Offline MarZutra

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2006, 12:51:36 PM »
Since Jews founded the entire system of morality and from my knowledge Jewish men treat their women with the utmost respect as per Torah teachings.  Orthodox Jewish families are very respectable and very happy.  I wish I could say the same for "Liberal" Jews.... but the sad reality Liberalism/Socialism and the like are not Judaism.  That is my two cents...  M
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Offline jdl4ever

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2006, 12:53:57 PM »
GentileLady, according to Rabbinical law, if a husband refuses to give the wife a divorce when she wants one the Rabbis used to beat him up until he did so.  This is written in the Talmud.  However, due to American law the Jews are affraid to do this although it is done some times.  My parents told me a story of this woman who hired a mobster to beat her husband so he'll give the get.  
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Offline GentileLady

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2006, 01:09:56 PM »
GentileLady, according to Rabbinical law, if a husband refuses to give the wife a divorce when she wants one the Rabbis used to beat him up until he did so.  This is written in the Talmud.  However, due to American law the Jews are affraid to do this although it is done some times.  My parents told me a story of this woman who hired a mobster to beat her husband so he'll give the get.  

And.......I understand the Orthodox community can/will shun the husband....apply social pressure until he grants the get.  Beatings may not be necessary.   How does that reconcile with "Do not stand idly by the blood of your fellow"?     :P

Offline jdl4ever

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2006, 01:26:12 PM »
And.......I understand the Orthodox community can/will shun the husband....apply social pressure until he grants the get.  Beatings may not be necessary.   How does that reconcile with "Do not stand idly by the blood of your fellow"?     :P

They are supposed to shun the husband but unfortunitely this is not always the case since there are some evil Rabbis who don't want to offend anyone especially if they guy gives them money.   I don't see any contradiction.  Although it is prohibited to assault another Jew, there are times when it is not only permitted to do so but is required.  The bible menchanes many prohibitions that the violators are liable to flogging and several which incur the death penalty.  Legally Rabbis can also declare physical punishment for those who violate Rabbinical decrees; especially when people are being evil (such as the one requiring the husband to give a get to his wife in a reasonable amount of time if she wants a divorce). 
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
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Offline davkakach

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2006, 02:04:07 PM »
GentileLady, according to Rabbinical law, if a husband refuses to give the wife a divorce when she wants one the Rabbis used to beat him up until he did so.  This is written in the Talmud.  However, due to American law the Jews are affraid to do this although it is done some times.  My parents told me a story of this woman who hired a mobster to beat her husband so he'll give the get. 
Nice!  This is new to me.   ;D
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adam613

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2006, 11:38:14 PM »
>Very well.  It is my understanding that the Ketubah (traditional marriage document/contract) requires the husband to provide not only for the physical support, but emotional support of the wife and children.  It is a shame that has to be spelled out, but Christians could take a lesson from this.

>It is my understanding that the Ketubah also specifies the support and maintenance due in the event of divorce; something courts are free to modify if it is insufficient, but it can be more generous than that which would be required by secular law.  It can also require the husband to grant a "get" (religioius divorce decree) to the wife in the event the marriage fails.  It is legally enforceable if referenced in a non-religious pre-nuptial agreement.

Well to be honest here the idea that because a women WANTS a get she should therefore get one is suspect. Jewish women have been affected by no fault divorce in the secular world and what the Jewish world has now is sometimes worse then no fault divorce as many men reputations are ruined on false charges because the women wants a divorce. If the man isn't doing anything wrong he does NOT have to give a divorce just because the women wants it but today women can make almost any charge up and be believed so we basically have no fault divorce. Having doormat and powerless father's because of women who feel they should get a divorce at the drop of a hat is not a good thing. This among other reaons's maybe why Jewish men are so afriad to fight as Jewish women want their men to act like their girlfriends and if they act like men they think badly of them and want a divorce. If boys act like men the mother's get upset. If the father tells the mother that let them act like boys the mother again may not like her husband for saying this and then can again try to force the man to give a divorce. So I don't the situation is good and I don't think people should imitate giving the man "no rights" on a relationship and forcing the man to give a divorce based on FALSE ABUSE CHARGES because if the father is fulfilling his side of the KETUVAH he does not have to give a divorce just because the WOMEN WANTS IT. But nowaday's women can say they were abused and the feminists have created laws that if a women says she is abused she is abused. Facts or the truth don't matter.

Anyway I know I have made this longer then neccesary but this is how I feel on this subject growing up in an ORTHODOX JEWISH HOME in which I was used as the scapegoat for everything. Nobody should have the kind of childhood and adolescents that I had. Mother's SHOULD NOT take priority over children.   

Offline Christian Zionist

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Here Is The Comparision - Jews Treating Women Vs. Muslims!
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2006, 09:26:41 PM »
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT WOMEN:

Women's right to inherit (In the days of Moses) - Torah - Book of Numbers:

Numbers 27:1 Then drew near the daughters of Zelophehad, the son of Hepher, the son of Gilead, the son of Machir, the son of Manasseh, of the families of Manasseh the son of Joseph; and these are the names of his daughters: Mahlah, Noah, and Hoglah, and Milcah, and Tirzah. cb(27,2); 27:2 And they stood before Moses, and before Eleazar the priest, and before the princes and all the congregation, at the door of the tent of meeting, saying, cb(27,3); 27:3 Our father died in the wilderness, and he was not among the company of them that gathered themselves together against Jehovah in the company of Korah: but he died in his own sin; and he had no sons. cb(27,4); 27:4 Why should the name of our father be taken away from among his family, because he had no son? Give unto us a possession among the brethren of our father. cb(27,5); 27:5 And Moses brought their cause before Jehovah.

cb(27,6); 27:6 And Jehovah spake unto Moses, saying, cb(27,7); 27:7 The daughters of Zelophehad speak right: thou shalt surely give them a possession of an inheritance among their father’s brethren; and thou shalt cause the inheritance of their father to pass unto them. cb(27,8); 27:8 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a man die, and have no son, then ye shall cause his inheritance to pass unto his daughter. cb(27,9); 27:9 And if he have no daughter, then ye shall give his inheritance unto his brethren. cb(27,10); 27:10 And if he have no brethren, then ye shall give his inheritance unto his father’s brethren. cb(27,11); 27:11 And if his father have no brethren, then ye shall give his inheritance unto his kinsman that is next to him of his family, and he shall possess it: and it shall be unto the children of Israel a statute and ordinance, as Jehovah commanded Moses.

Women Prophetess' In The Bible:

Deborah - A judge and a prophetess in Israel: (Book of Judges Chapter 4)

4:4 Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, she judged Israel at that time. cb(4,5); 4:5 And she dwelt under the palm-tree of Deborah between Ramah and Beth-el in the hill-country of Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment. cb(4,6); 4:6 And she sent and called Barak the son of Abinoam out of Kedesh-naphtali, and said unto him, Hath not Jehovah, the God of Israel, commanded, saying, Go and draw unto mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun? cb(4,7); 4:7 And I will draw unto thee, to the river Kishon, Sisera, the captain of Jabin’s army, with his chariots and his multitude; and I will deliver him into thy hand. cb(4,8); 4:8 And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go; but if thou wilt not go with me, I will not go. cb(4,9); 4:9 And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding, the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honor; for Jehovah will sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh. cb(4,10); 4:10 And Barak called Zebulun and Naphtali together to Kedesh; and there went up ten thousand men at his feet: and Deborah went up with him.

Huldah, the woman prophet in the midst of important male prophets!

Huldah who prophesised about the destruction of southern Israel when prominent male prophets Jeremiah and Zephaniah were alive at that time. King Josiah sent messengers to Huldah and not to other male prophets!!!

II Chronicles 34:22 So Hilkiah, and they whom the king had commanded, went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tokhath, the son of Hasrah, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the second quarter;) and they spake to her to that effect. cb(34,23); 34:23 And she said unto them, Thus saith Jehovah, the God of Israel: Tell ye the man that sent you unto me, cb(34,24); 34:24 Thus saith Jehovah, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the curses that are written in the book which they have read before the king of Judah. cb(34,25); 34:25 Because they have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the works of their hands; therefore is my wrath poured out upon this place, and it shall not be quenched. cb(34,26); 34:26 But unto the king of Judah, who sent you to inquire of Jehovah, thus shall ye say to him, Thus saith Jehovah, the God of Israel: As touching the words which thou hast heard, cb(34,27); 34:27 because thy heart was tender, and thou didst humble thyself before God, when thou heardest his words against this place, and against the inhabitants thereof, and hast humbled thyself before me, and hast rent thy clothes, and wept before me; I also have heard thee, saith Jehovah. cb(34,28); 34:28 Behold, I will gather thee to thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered to thy grave in peace, neither shall thine eyes see all the evil that I will bring upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof. And they brought back word to the king.


King David Accepted Advice From A Woman:

II Samuel 14:1-20


Koran Teaches about women:


Women In Islam:
(Koran 2:223, 2:228 ... are koranic verses:)

2:223 Your women are a tilt for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilt as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad)

2:228, And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them

2:230, So if a husband divorces his wife (irrevocably), He cannot, after that, re-marry her until after she has married another husband and He has divorced her

2:282, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her.

4:3, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.

4:11-12, Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children’s (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females:

4:24 Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess.

4:34, Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

33:50
O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

53:27, Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names.

66:10, Allah sets forth, for an example to the Unbelievers, the wife of Noah and the wife of Lut: they were (respectively) under two of our righteous servants, but they were false to their (husbands), and they profited nothing before Allah on their account, but were told: “Enter ye the Fire along with (others) that enter!”

MUSLIM TRADITION, MUSLIM HISTORIANS RECORDINGS ABOUT WOMEN:

1. It is forbidden for a woman to be seen by any man except her husband when she is made up or well-dressed. (TR. P 430)
2. A woman is not a believer if she undertakes a journey which may last three days or longer, unless she is accompanied by her husband, son, father or brother. (TR. P 431 )
3. A woman must veil herself even in the presence of her husband's father, brother and other male relations. (TR. P 432)
4. She is forbidden to spend any money without the permission of her husband, and it includes giving food to the needy or feast to friends. (TR. P 265)
5. A wife is forbidden to perform extra prayers (NAFAL) or observe fasting (other than RAMADAN) without the permission of her husband. (TR. P 300)
6. If prostration were a legitimate act other than to God, woman should have prostrated to her husband. (TR. P 428)
7. If a man is in a mood to have sexual intercourse woman must come immediately even if she is baking bread at a communal oven. (TR. P 428) 9. The marriage of woman to her man is not substantive. It is precarious. For example if the father of the husband orders his son to divorce his wife, he must do so. (TR. P 440)

Other:

1. Majority of women would go to hell. (Muslim P 1431)
2. If a woman refuses to come to bed when invited by her husband, she becomes the target of the curses of angles. Exactly the same happens if she deserts her husband's bed. (Bokhari P 93)
3. The women who are ungrateful to their men, are the denizens of hell; it is an act of ingratitude for a woman to say: "I have never seen any good from you." (Bokhari P 96)
4. 14. A woman in many ways is deprived of the possession of her own body. Even her milk belongs to her husband. (Bokhari P 27)

Link To Hadith - Muslim Tradition:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html



   
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Offline GentileLady

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2006, 10:04:00 PM »
Excellent rebuttal!  Thank you for the information!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

adam613

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2006, 11:40:34 PM »
That still does NOT give women the right to divorce their husbands when the husbands are not willing to give a divorce settlement and they are fullfilling to the best of their ability their side of the KETUVAH. THe TORAH does not sanction ths anywhere. Nor does it sanction extorting money from a husband when he did nothing wrong other then being born a man and having some human imperfections like we all do. If a gentile woman is joing this forum because she thinks Judaism is feminism g-d help us all and g-d help the kahanist movement. I don't know if g-d will let the kahanist movement succeed if it supports feminism and selfish women or feminized girlie men who feels it is OK to promote women divorcing for no reason and forcing men to pay for their wives and children even though they did nothing wrong and have little contact with their children (HONOR THY FATHER AND MOTHER IS ONE OF THE 10 COMMANDMENTS NOT HONOR THY MOTHER AND THROW THE FATHER OUT OF THE HOME.) and g- d forbid believe that we should be telling other nations to do the same thing.  It is very sad the gentile women does not really care about the Jewish family as long as the women can do as she pleases. This really is terrible and is very bad for children. There is a whole single crisis in the Jewish observant world today and for any nonjew to think the Jewish family is in good shape I don't think is a true friend to the Jewish people. 

Furthermore, Christian Zionist there are positive quotes in the bible about women. There are also very negative one's and you did a nice job of selection all the good one's. We should discuss Leviticus (27:3-4). A man between the ages of 20-60 the valuation shall be 50 shekels. If she is female the valuation shall be 30 shekels. So clearly g-d did view the man having more value in the supply and demand outside world then woman in their prime years.

Here is a negative quote for you Christian Zionist and Gentile women: Issiah (3:12) My people, their oppressor's are mockers and and women dominate them.
Issiah (3:16) G-d Said because the daughters of zion are haughty walking with outstretched necks and winking eyes 17. the lord will afflict the daughters of Zion with lesions, and hashem will bear their priovate parts.

Lastly, g-d chose are patriarchs and matriarchs to be men and women that both were neccesary in different ways for the Jewish people. Abraham was the one who went out to spread the word about g-d while Sarah was the one who was better in terms of raising her own child and knowing better then abraham what was best for him. G-d did not chose our Matriarchs to be wanna be men and women to rule over men. The exception does not negate the general rule.

Here are some quotes from Genesis which again proves my point.  Genesis 1:18 It is not good that man be alone I will make him a helper corresponding to him. Genesis 3:16-17 after the sin of the tree of knowledge in which g-d punished both the women and the man. G-d said to the women: I will greatly increase your suffering and your childbearing in pain shall you bear children. Yet your craving shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you. (Genesis 3:16-17).
 

Offline Christian Zionist

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2006, 12:47:25 AM »
Adam613, the verses you've mentioned are not related about the "treatment" of women in the Bible!

In the Tanak we can see that women are not inferior to men but they are different.

Their roles in the family and in the society are different.

Men are visually aroused and therefore we need to follow what the Bible says.


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adam613

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2006, 01:42:50 AM »
I never said women were. Don't put words in my mouth. Men are not inferior to women either. You also seem to be avoiding my questions Christionzionist and all the biblical quotes that I quoted that are from the 5 books of moses and the people in these books at a higher level then the people you mentioned? THE BIBLE does clearly state that in most cases men are better when it comes to leadership then women are. 99% of the public leadership was by men. If you honestly think women make such great leaders because they aren't sexually aroused the way men (and ignore all the other reason's that have more Biblical proof then one reason Chaim said on his show about men being aroused by women) are and are honestly trying to follow the bible you then you must be happy about now retired Sandra Day O'Conner,Ruth Badar Ginsburg, Nancy Pelocy, and Hillary Clinton. We have more and more women in political positions today and we must be in better shape the way you read the bible. They are not sexually aroused like men are so it must be better. That is what you are saying Christianzionsit.

Also much of your post has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with how to treat women either. I don't appreciate your dodge CHristian Zionist.

And I will say it again Christian Zionist. The torah only forces a man to give a get in a case in which the husband is an AWOL husband and doesn't want the women to remarry but does not really care for the wife. The torah does not allow women to force a man to give a divorce whenever the women pleases when the man is not doing anything wrong and is reasonably fulfilling his side of the marriage document.  This is extortion and the women and the evil corrupt Rabbi's that abuse less connected men will be punished for it. So will people who support this kind of immoral system Christionzionist. Because men are more sexually aroused does not give women the right to extort money from men because they feel like it. And not allow children to have a father and turn him into an ATM machine.

Gentilelady liking Judaism because Judaism has mimicked the immoral no fault divorce laws and made them even harsher doesn't suggest to me that Gentilelady is a true friend of the Jewish people. Your friendship is becoming suspect too Christian zionist for going along with it. I do think no fault divorce laws are immoral and while there is a time and place for divorce, no fault divorce in this country may very well destroy this country too g-d forbid Christainzionist. Some have advocated change in this area and require both sides to agree for it to be no fault. 

Anyway, to take this one reason THAT MEN ARE MORE SEXUALLY AROUSED and ignore all the other reason's why g-d felt it is more natural for men to assume a more public role is not really being intellectually honest in my opinion. To suggest that Abraham assumed the public role of bringing people to the idea of one g-d was only because if Sarah did it they would all lust after her but really it would be better for Sarah to assume the more public role I think is a terrible insult to Abraham's intelligence and the risk's he took with his knowledge throughout his life. It also insults Sarah who when it came to Issac knew better then Abraham what was better for his development But really that wasn't what Sarah should have been doing. Only because men are sex maniac's did she take this role of understanding what was in Issac's best interest. . 

Offline Christian Zionist

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2006, 03:31:39 PM »
Adam613, you have misunderstood me.  It was late night yesterday and I did not go into details.

1. I did not say that you meant that women were inferior.  I was expressing my opinion.
2. I did not try to avoid your questions - I have not found time yet for that. I need to refer the Bible to get back to you.
3. I believe that the leadership is for males only.  Men are visually aroused - I meant a woman leader could become an idol for her male subordinates.  If a woman is a Rabbi or a Pastor the members of the congregation might be fatacizing about her which sometimes come under the guise of getting a "motherly" care.
4. In my post I was primarilly comparing how we and muslims view women. 
5. I believe in the Torah and the rest of the Tanak 100%.  I take the Tanak literally and believe in the inerrancy of the scriptures.
I hate divorce!  In my posts I never mentioned about divorce at all.  The laws of Torah is ideal to govern our morality.   Whatever the Tanak says is the ultimate authority in my life and I do not try to amend G-d's commandments.

You've mentioned about friendship - I am taken aback by those comments.  First of all I need to follow and obey the Bible primarily to please G-d. Friendship follows that.  I believe in the same Tanak that you believe. 

I 100% agree with Sarah in the Bible.  I mentioned about visual arousal with reference to a woman serving as a Rabbi or a Pastor.  That will tempt many men.  Biblical women heroines were always under the authority of the Aaronic High priests.  They served as prophetesses but never as Levite priests.

I will take some time to answer GentileLady and other posters in this thread.

Sorry my brief comments made you to think differently.

I cannot forget you for supporting me in the "evolution" thread while most of the posters (except you and Marzutra) disagreed with me. 

Thanks!



« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 03:35:51 PM by christianzionist »
Isaiah 62:1 -  For Zion's sake I am not silent, And for Jerusalem's sake I do not rest, Till her righteousness go out as brightness, And her salvation, as a torch that burns.

Offline kahaneloyalist

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2006, 07:51:02 PM »
I think men and women have specific roles to play for example women may not serve in the Beis HaMikdash nor may a women be the sovreign.
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

adam613

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2006, 10:44:27 PM »
I do apologize to you Christian Zionist for getting a little upset. and jumping to conclusions. I was a little upset at Gentile Lady for praising the Jewish community for basically always given in to what the women demands. There are some men that take tremendous advandage of women and aren't good husbands and this shouldn't be tolerated but there are some Jewish men who have been treated badly also simply because they are born of the male gender and the Rabbi's have to show how good they are to women unfortunately at another man's expense. They are also those in the middle ground where Jewish women who intentionally marry Jewish men that everybody tells them they shouldn't marry and then later on complain. As a guy who is a decent person this bothers me when I see Jewish women who marry men that don't have character and it doesn't take much to see this and then later on want a divorce and have children that have little contact with their father.

I have seen much harm done in Jewish families by basically creates an environment in which the man is a sitting duck for whatever the women desires whether it is good evil or in the middle. Furthermore, Jewish men cannot do anything when for whatever reason a Jewish women is mistreating their children and this also is very bad.

In terms of your quotes from the bible. I do believe it is generally true that men should assume leadership roles although the world being what it is in some circumstances (due to war, a society that is very hostile to men or other odd circumstance) it does sometimes happen that a women is better suited then any man. Chaim Ben Pesach himself is a single man preaching and that isn't the best either but again the world being what it is in this unusual case Chaim is a better spokesman that any man that is married and has a wife and children.

To expand on this point, I am sure you are aware of the story of Lot where because of homosexuality g-d destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah but saved Lot and his two daughters. His two daughters thought that the whole world was destroyed as they did not know the prophecy and therefore they had intercourse with their father because they thought nobody was left in the world and g-d rewarding them with nations that came from them. Even though normally this is a heinous sin. (Genesis 20: 30-38 has the whole story.)

I do believe women should use their talents in the supply and demand world but do believe people have the right to hire who they want and who they think will in the end be the most productive for them at that specific job.


LAST POINT: I GUESS CHAIM GAVE THIS IMPRESSION TOO BY SAYING THAT MEN ARE RABBI's BECAUSE MEN WOULD LUST MORE IF IT WAS WOMEN. BUT THAT CAN"T BE THE ONLY REASON AND IF IT WAS THEN REALLY MEN DO OPPRESS WOMEN BECAUSE THEY TAKE JOBS THAT WOMEN ARE MORE QUALIFIED THEN THEY ARE SIMPLY BECAUSE WOMEN LUST LESS THEN MEN DO. JUDAISM DOES BELIEVE IN REAL JUSTICE AND FAIRNESS AND THAT IS NOT REAL JUSTICE OR FAIRNESS.


Offline TheCoon

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2006, 08:55:49 AM »
I know most Jewish men would rather die than hit a woman.

Christians probably have a higher instance of beating women than Jews simply because there are blacks, hispanics, others who call themselves Christian andwould tend to abuse more than white or asian Christians.
The city isn't what it used to be. It all happened so fast. Everything went to crap. It's like... everyone's sense of morals just disappeared. Bad economy made things worse. Jobs started drying up, then the stores had to shut down. Then a black man was elected president. He was supposed to change things. He didn't. More and more people turned to crime and violence... The town becomes gripped with fear. Dark times, dark times... I am the hero this town needs. I am... The Coon!!!

Offline GentileLady

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2006, 09:00:26 AM »
I do apologize to you Christian Zionist for getting a little upset. and jumping to conclusions. I was a little upset at Gentile Lady for praising the Jewish community for basically always given in to what the women demands.

And I think you read more into my posts than was really there.  Where did I praise the community for giving in to an unreasonable demand for a divorce? 

There are undeniably times when the husband is simply a jerk and refuses to grant the get out of spite.  My post was directed to that instance.  Now stop jumping to conclusions and imputing motives that are simply not there.

Offline Christian Zionist

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2006, 08:24:00 PM »
Thanks Adam613 for understanding!  You are one of the best posters in the JTF forum.

We Jews and Christians should unite to fight the invasion of humanism in the form of feminism in our religious establishments.

Feminism is attacking our Judeo-Christian traditions like never before! A few years ago YWCA (Young Women's "Christian" Association) elected Patricia Ireland, the former NOW (National Organization of Women) as its leader.  Finally after intense pressure from Conservative Christians that avowed lesbian was dismissed.  These are end times.   Torah gives us guidance!

Women should be relieved from the military duty too.  Biblical judge Deborah gave counsel to Barak to lead a war but never actually took part in the war.

G-d's laws set the standards to us and we should not allow the secular humanists to water down G-d's laws.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 08:27:13 PM by christianzionist »
Isaiah 62:1 -  For Zion's sake I am not silent, And for Jerusalem's sake I do not rest, Till her righteousness go out as brightness, And her salvation, as a torch that burns.

adam613

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Re: How do jews treat their women?
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2006, 12:23:56 AM »
>And I think you read more into my posts than was really there.

That is possible and I apologize. I guess someone told me recently that in nonjewish circles and in some Christian circles a man at one time culd divorce a wife and not compensate which isn't right and maybe that was what you were referring to. Is this true, gentile woman? I apologize for jumping to conclusions.

I also thank you gentile lady foryour comments on Rick Santorum and the extent to which Rick Santorum supported that monster Arlen Spector. Thank goodness Santorum lost the election.