What Do You Think Of Pre-Marital Intimacy And/Or Touching?

[Dan]

What do you mean by touching?!
 How are you going to enforce such laws?
I think we should forcus on REAL issues, let's not worry about things of this nature at this point... I mean that in a nice way.  

[Zelhar]

A few weeks ago i went for a medical check up the nurse took a blood test afterwards she put a band aid on.Should i have told her give me that band aid i don'nt want you to touch me she would have thought i was paranoid or insane.

It is almost impossible to draw someone's blood without touching them.
That kind of touching is different isn't it?

That kind of Contact is permissible because it is for medical reasons.

[Dr. Dan]

A few weeks ago i went for a medical check up the nurse took a blood test afterwards she put a band aid on.Should i have told her give me that band aid i don'nt want you to touch me she would have thought i was paranoid or insane.

It is almost impossible to draw someone's blood without touching them.
That kind of touching is different isn't it?

That kind of Contact is permissible because it is for medical reasons.

I see religious orthodox women from Monroe NY for dental work...I know that i have no choice to touch their mouths as i work on them..however, I'm still careful as i place the paper napkin on them not to touch them..

But i do it out of respect...no other reason.

[Rubystars]

I've heard horrible stories from the Muslim world about how women can not get needed medical care because their husbands refuse to let them see a male doctor (these women definitely don't get gynecological care, breast exams, or pap smears, because their husbands won't let them go to a male doctor for these things). Female doctors in the Muslim world are almost unheard of, although some exist. So if women have a medical problem that needs to be treated they often have to suffer in pain in silence.

Imagine having a cavity and having it cause you pain day after day, with no way to get help because there are no female dentists. Imagine the tooth rotting and being unable to eat on that side, and waking up every day to pain until the tooth just rotted and died.

In a medical situation it may be impossible to know whether the needed medical treatment is something minor or something that may save a life. An itchy mole could be benign or cancerous, for example.

And what's wrong, in a business situation, such as two CEOs meeting, with them shaking hands? Are they going to jump on each other in the boardroom in front of other workers in a business meeting?

Doing things like this would restrict women's power in the business world.

[Zelhar]

I am against banning contact and I think it should be a personal choice and a legal ban would be intrusive to the personal freedom.

Personally I'd rather that the habit of handshakes would die out because to me it seems like a perfect way to exchange viruses and other pathogens between individuals. I think we should replace it with a non-contact gesture.

Unfortunately it seems that things are heading the other way at list here in Israel, it becomes increasingly customary for man and woman, woman and woman and even two man to hug and kiss in social circumstances (Did you see Smolmert kissing W ?).

[Americanhero1]

I am against banning contact and I think it should be a personal choice and a legal ban would be intrusive to the personal freedom.

Personally I'd rather that the habit of handshakes would die out because to me it seems like a perfect way to exchange viruses and other pathogens between individuals. I think we should replace it with a non-contact gesture.

Unfortunately it seems that things are heading the other way at list here in Israel, it becomes increasingly customary for man and woman, woman and woman and even two man to hug and kiss in social circumstances (Did you see Smolmert kissing W ?).

They do that in Europe they shake hands and kiss both cheeks

[Dr. Dan]

I've heard horrible stories from the Muslim world about how women can not get needed medical care because their husbands refuse to let them see a male doctor (these women definitely don't get gynecological care, breast exams, or pap smears, because their husbands won't let them go to a male doctor for these things). Female doctors in the Muslim world are almost unheard of, although some exist. So if women have a medical problem that needs to be treated they often have to suffer in pain in silence.

Imagine having a cavity and having it cause you pain day after day, with no way to get help because there are no female dentists. Imagine the tooth rotting and being unable to eat on that side, and waking up every day to pain until the tooth just rotted and died.

In a medical situation it may be impossible to know whether the needed medical treatment is something minor or something that may save a life. An itchy mole could be benign or cancerous, for example.

And what's wrong, in a business situation, such as two CEOs meeting, with them shaking hands? Are they going to jump on each other in the boardroom in front of other workers in a business meeting?

Doing things like this would restrict women's power in the business world.

actually it's a good thing that Muslim countries do that to women...now they can't have kids and therefore fewer people to hate us and wish death up on us..I say..I hope Muslims continue implementing these silly koranic rules until they all disappear..or till someone gets smart and changes the whole religion so that there is finally peace in this world.

[MasterWolf1]

No, not at all, I don't see whats wrong with hand shaking or any form of effection.  If you have compossure and not a beast then you shouldn't worry about things like this.  I shake hands of women all the time, I grew basically on the beach, if you are a responsible adult, if you are someone who has a concious then these things would not be a factor to you.  I am not married and I take the vows of marriage seriously but if I meet some of my friends and some happen to be females we give a hug and kiss in the cheek doesn't mean we are hoping in the sack.

[AsheDina]

Wow- what a thread to wake up to. Well, I believe that most people on this forum have convictions.  These beliefs must be held into account by each individual. I shake hands and say hi to people I sense have good spirit, thats ME. However- sex b4 marriage?  To be perfectly candid- women dont want this, they REALLY dont. I am talking of women of religious conviction.  Good men are STRONG, and can handle this. Weaker men can't, they give over to their lusts- it just proves that lust & desire rules over religion, conviction and belief, which is sad.  Women like to be courted, and wait for that most special night.  Every good young woman, older as well, just believe that it is worth it, for their chastity.  I am a TOTAL prude. Ask David ben Moshe. I am a PRUDE and PROUD of it. I am WORTH the wait, HE IS WORTH the wait.

[nessuno]

A few weeks ago i went for a medical check up the nurse took a blood test afterwards she put a band aid on.Should i have told her give me that band aid i don'nt want you to touch me she would have thought i was paranoid or insane.

It is almost impossible to draw someone's blood without touching them.
That kind of touching is different isn't it?

That kind of Contact is permissible because it is for medical reasons.

Thank You for answering my question.
The person drawing Mord's blood would have thought him batty  if he asked not to be touched.

I think if people choose not to engage in pre-marital touching - their choice should be respected.
I don't think it could be banned.

Come to think of it...if the young people today engaged in a little less pre-marital touching we would have less unwanted pregnancies and people with STDs.

[Maimonides]

People will not support JTF if Chaim tries to ban things like this, Jews are not backward people they are very civilized they are basically Europeans. This kinda stuff can work in Iran but not in Israel.

Civilized and Europeans are two words that do not go together. If you call the degenerate culture of Europe civilized then we have a problem as to where this movement is going.

JTF is not a libertarian free for all but a Jewish movement for restoring Judaism to Israel.

The problem is that too many Jews have become as HaRav Kahane would say Hellenized into thinking that Judaism is a Western Value.

Too quote HaRav Kahane "most Jews wouldn't know a Jewish concept if they tripped over one"
"Thomas Jefferson and John Locke do not express Jewish values"!!!

[Scriabin]

I agree with Mills.  This is a religeous Jewish question.

Perhaps Yacov could have rephrased his question. 

The word 'ban' is strong, yet vague.

[White Israelite]

People will not support JTF if Chaim tries to ban things like this, Jews are not backward people they are very civilized they are basically Europeans. This kinda stuff can work in Iran but not in Israel.

Civilized and Europeans are two words that do not go together. If you call the degenerate culture of Europe civilized then we have a problem as to where this movement is going.

JTF is not a libertarian free for all but a Jewish movement for restoring Judaism to Israel.

The problem is that too many Jews have become as HaRav Kahane would say Hellenized into thinking that Judaism is a Western Value.

Too quote HaRav Kahane "most Jews wouldn't know a Jewish concept if they tripped over one"
"Thomas Jefferson and John Locke do not express Jewish values"!!!

Why does everyone bash Thomas Jefferson on here?

[Rubystars]

Wow- what a thread to wake up to. Well, I believe that most people on this forum have convictions.  These beliefs must be held into account by each individual. I shake hands and say hi to people I sense have good spirit, thats ME. However- sex b4 marriage?  To be perfectly candid- women dont want this, they REALLY dont. I am talking of women of religious conviction.  Good men are STRONG, and can handle this. Weaker men can't, they give over to their lusts- it just proves that lust & desire rules over religion, conviction and belief, which is sad.  Women like to be courted, and wait for that most special night.  Every good young woman, older as well, just believe that it is worth it, for their chastity.  I am a TOTAL prude. Ask David ben Moshe. I am a PRUDE and PROUD of it. I am WORTH the wait, HE IS WORTH the wait.

I believe in waiting until marriage to have sex. I believe premarital sex is sinful. I also think it's sinful to lust after someone and imagine doing things to them in your mind even if you don't touch them.  I just don't equate that to shaking hands with a business partner or brushing against someone in a crowd or a medical exam.

[mord]

No idea Jefferson seemed to me as a nice enough guy

[White Israelite]

No idea Jefferson seemed to me as a nice enough guy

He was pro gun too.

[White Israelite]

Wow- what a thread to wake up to. Well, I believe that most people on this forum have convictions.  These beliefs must be held into account by each individual. I shake hands and say hi to people I sense have good spirit, thats ME. However- sex b4 marriage?  To be perfectly candid- women dont want this, they REALLY dont. I am talking of women of religious conviction.  Good men are STRONG, and can handle this. Weaker men can't, they give over to their lusts- it just proves that lust & desire rules over religion, conviction and belief, which is sad.  Women like to be courted, and wait for that most special night.  Every good young woman, older as well, just believe that it is worth it, for their chastity.  I am a TOTAL prude. Ask David ben Moshe. I am a PRUDE and PROUD of it. I am WORTH the wait, HE IS WORTH the wait.

I believe in waiting until marriage to have sex. I believe premarital sex is sinful. I also think it's sinful to lust after someone and imagine doing things to them in your mind even if you don't touch them.  I just don't equate that to shaking hands with a business partner or brushing against someone in a crowd or a medical exam.

Yep, but the way our society is advancing, handshaking will be equivalent to a one night stand pretty much. Pretty sad.

[mord]

No idea Jefferson seemed to me as a nice enough guy

He was pro gun too.

So where all the founders

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Ask David ben Moshe. I am a PRUDE and PROUD of it. I am WORTH the wait, HE IS WORTH the wait.

 Isn't he Jewish and you are not? 
 Anyway dont worry you dont have to wait, but Jews have to.

[Dr. Dan]

Wow- what a thread to wake up to. Well, I believe that most people on this forum have convictions.  These beliefs must be held into account by each individual. I shake hands and say hi to people I sense have good spirit, thats ME. However- sex b4 marriage?  To be perfectly candid- women dont want this, they REALLY dont. I am talking of women of religious conviction.  Good men are STRONG, and can handle this. Weaker men can't, they give over to their lusts- it just proves that lust & desire rules over religion, conviction and belief, which is sad.  Women like to be courted, and wait for that most special night.  Every good young woman, older as well, just believe that it is worth it, for their chastity.  I am a TOTAL prude. Ask David ben Moshe. I am a PRUDE and PROUD of it. I am WORTH the wait, HE IS WORTH the wait.

i totally agree...this should be  a reason for all good and decent people to do the right thing even when it comes down to making physical contact with the opposite sex.

I personally, unless a female's hand is offered to me (that is a total stranger), give a little bow...really out of respect.

[Dr. Dan]

Ask David ben Moshe. I am a PRUDE and PROUD of it. I am WORTH the wait, HE IS WORTH the wait.

 Isn't he Jewish and you are not? 
 Anyway dont worry you dont have to wait, but Jews have to.

no paulette is jewish i'm pretty sure of it..am i right?

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I dont know if we would be able to contol outright banning right away, but it should definitly be in the atmosphere that such behavior is wrong and those who do soo should be put to shame. And that not only goes for the kids but also the parents (expecially of girls) who let their daughters go around on the streets not dressed properly, and the parents or guardians not knowing where and who she is with. 
 The most important thing is to set the right culture and way of thinking, through "Washing the brain" aka brainwashing, from all the filth that the Jewish Neshama might have contracted from the media and others.

[Rubystars]

It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.

I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.

What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.

[Zelhar]

It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.

I don't think man get sexual enjoyment from hand shakes (with the possible exception of some weird fetishes), and if they do get sexual pleasure then they get it even more so from looking and hearing a woman, so men simply better behave themselves and if they can't their place is in the Zoo.

Moreover if you wouldn't shake the hand of attractive women I think you should avoid it altogether because otherwise you would be implicitly calling some woman unattractive and that might hurt them.

[Maimonides]

People will not support JTF if Chaim tries to ban things like this, Jews are not backward people they are very civilized they are basically Europeans. This kinda stuff can work in Iran but not in Israel.

Civilized and Europeans are two words that do not go together. If you call the degenerate culture of Europe civilized then we have a problem as to where this movement is going.

JTF is not a libertarian free for all but a Jewish movement for restoring Judaism to Israel.

The problem is that too many Jews have become as HaRav Kahane would say Hellenized into thinking that Judaism is a Western Value.

Too quote HaRav Kahane "most Jews wouldn't know a Jewish concept if they tripped over one"
"Thomas Jefferson and John Locke do not express Jewish values"!!!

Why does everyone bash Thomas Jefferson on here?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/jeffjews.html

Thomas Jefferson was not a true G-d fearing Christian but a deist, which is similar to a secular humanist.

He only pretended to be a Christian for political reasons like many of the politicians of today. Jefferson gets way too much credit for his role in the founding of the U.S.

He despised real Christians and detested Jews, his phrase "wall of separation between Church and State" has become the shield for atheists to use against religious Christians in the U.S. And has become a standard that Israeli secularists seek to live up to.

Jefferson was not even involved in writing the U.S. Constitution because he was the U.S. minister to France at the time, and later supported the Jacobin faction during the French Revolution.