I need help with my insomnia!

[Americanhero1]

Have you ever had a concussion?

[q_q_]

well, i've never seen a therapist for CBT, so don't quote me.

But I think it would involve you figuring out what you associate with sleeping, that is putting you off.
And then changing the association.

For example, if you have an addiction to TV. Then it is because of an association of TV with good.. Maybe, you feel satisfied watching a program you like.. Or you feel like you might miss something if you don't watch it, and so you watch it. Some feeling drives you to watch it, even though your logical self - when away from the tv - knows that it is a negative thing.  So, what you would have to do, to remove that addiction, is change the  association that TV  has.  That may involve meditating over the idea that TV is a negative thing.. a bad thing.  Thinking of the programs you "like", or would like, and associating them with bad feelings.  In this way it is easier to draw yourself away from the TV and recognise naturally that it is bad.
Your sleep is a bit different, but if there is some negative association, maybe you can change that to a positive association..  If there is some negative association that frightens you into tensing up and not going to sleep.. Maybe you can identify that and change that.
But a therapist might be best for CBT. And it prob isn't normally for sleep.. Though I guess it could be applied to that.


Other ideas are
- Hypnosis
- Sleep disorder clinic

  

[DownwithIslam]

But I think it would be helpful to study the Kriyat Shema Al Hamita (the prayers recited say it every night) and say it each night before you go to sleep.

It will calm you down.

Lubab, I dont think that will help me unfortunately. I believe in the power of tefila but I need an immediate solution to this problem.

First, it doesn't hurt to try it. If it works it would be an "immediate solution".
Second, is there something specific about going to sleep that scares you? Is it the loss of control, the loss of awareness of your surroundings. Do any of these things scare you?

Lubab, the problem started about 4 years ago when one time I had trouble falling asleep. Ever since then, my body automatically fears not being able to fall asleep and tenses up when I am about to go to bed. My heart rate increases automatically and I have zero control over this. Its a major psychological problem and its super strange as I am generally a calm person and my only anxiety is about sleep. I went to a sleep psychologist at cornell and they couldnt help me. Part of the problem is that I know that if I dont sleep, I will be hurt in school etc... and this only ads to the problem.

[DownwithIslam]

well, i've never seen a therapist for CBT, so don't quote me.

But I think it would involve you figuring out what you associate with sleeping, that is putting you off.
And then changing the association.

For example, if you have an addiction to TV. Then it is because of an association of TV with good.. Maybe, you feel satisfied watching a program you like.. Or you feel like you might miss something if you don't watch it, and so you watch it. Some feeling drives you to watch it, even though your logical self - when away from the tv - knows that it is a negative thing.  So, what you would have to do, to remove that addiction, is change the  association that TV  has.  That may involve meditating over the idea that TV is a negative thing.. a bad thing.  Thinking of the programs you "like", or would like, and associating them with bad feelings.  In this way it is easier to draw yourself away from the TV and recognise naturally that it is bad.
Your sleep is a bit different, but if there is some negative association, maybe you can change that to a positive association..  If there is some negative association that frightens you into tensing up and not going to sleep.. Maybe you can identify that and change that.
But a therapist might be best for CBT. And it prob isn't normally for sleep.. Though I guess it could be applied to that.


Other ideas are
- Hypnosis
- Sleep disorder clinic

  

QQ, I will be looking for a sleep therapist and I hope they give me this treatment.

[Americanhero1]

Does insomnia run in your family?

[q_q_]

<snip>
Lubab, the problem started about 4 years ago when one time I had trouble falling asleep. Ever since then, my body automatically fears not being able to fall asleep and tenses up when I am about to go to bed. My heart rate increases automatically and I have zero control over this. Its a major psychological problem and its super strange as I am generally a calm person and my only anxiety is about sleep. I went to a sleep psychologist at cornell and they couldnt help me. Part of the problem is that I know that if I dont sleep, I will be hurt in school etc... and this only ads to the problem.

If it is the thought or any thoughts that are the problem.. Maybe you need something to take your mind off te fact that you are sleeping. As far as you are concerned, you are relaxing.
So that's an association you could work on.. With CBT perhaps.

But another thing you could try is a Light Sound device.  I haven't tried it, but it may give you something to focus on when sleeping.
I don't know if they are safe, or if one can even sleep with them.  I can tell you that it's something I would try even without a problem sleeping!

[DownwithIslam]

<snip>
Lubab, the problem started about 4 years ago when one time I had trouble falling asleep. Ever since then, my body automatically fears not being able to fall asleep and tenses up when I am about to go to bed. My heart rate increases automatically and I have zero control over this. Its a major psychological problem and its super strange as I am generally a calm person and my only anxiety is about sleep. I went to a sleep psychologist at cornell and they couldnt help me. Part of the problem is that I know that if I dont sleep, I will be hurt in school etc... and this only ads to the problem.

If it is the thought or any thoughts that are the problem.. Maybe you need something to take your mind off te fact that you are sleeping. As far as you are concerned, you are relaxing.
So that's an association you could work on.. With CBT perhaps.

But another thing you could try is a Light Sound device.  I haven't tried it, but it may give you something to focus on when sleeping.
I don't know if they are safe, or if one can even sleep with them.  I can tell you that it's something I would try even without a problem sleeping!

QQ, I have tried every mental trick you could think of. The problem is just too severe. My body has an automatic reaction. benzodiazepine class meds have worked for me. Valium and Restoril both help me but I need a med free solution. I dont want to have to take pills to sleep.

[Americanhero1]

<snip>
Lubab, the problem started about 4 years ago when one time I had trouble falling asleep. Ever since then, my body automatically fears not being able to fall asleep and tenses up when I am about to go to bed. My heart rate increases automatically and I have zero control over this. Its a major psychological problem and its super strange as I am generally a calm person and my only anxiety is about sleep. I went to a sleep psychologist at cornell and they couldnt help me. Part of the problem is that I know that if I dont sleep, I will be hurt in school etc... and this only ads to the problem.

If it is the thought or any thoughts that are the problem.. Maybe you need something to take your mind off te fact that you are sleeping. As far as you are concerned, you are relaxing.
So that's an association you could work on.. With CBT perhaps.

But another thing you could try is a Light Sound device.  I haven't tried it, but it may give you something to focus on when sleeping.
I don't know if they are safe, or if one can even sleep with them.  I can tell you that it's something I would try even without a problem sleeping!

You can listen to music

[DownwithIslam]

<snip>
Lubab, the problem started about 4 years ago when one time I had trouble falling asleep. Ever since then, my body automatically fears not being able to fall asleep and tenses up when I am about to go to bed. My heart rate increases automatically and I have zero control over this. Its a major psychological problem and its super strange as I am generally a calm person and my only anxiety is about sleep. I went to a sleep psychologist at cornell and they couldnt help me. Part of the problem is that I know that if I dont sleep, I will be hurt in school etc... and this only ads to the problem.

If it is the thought or any thoughts that are the problem.. Maybe you need something to take your mind off te fact that you are sleeping. As far as you are concerned, you are relaxing.
So that's an association you could work on.. With CBT perhaps.

But another thing you could try is a Light Sound device.  I haven't tried it, but it may give you something to focus on when sleeping.
I don't know if they are safe, or if one can even sleep with them.  I can tell you that it's something I would try even without a problem sleeping!

You can listen to music

Unfortunately that wont work Americanhero. I have tried everything. Its not that simple. I guess I need to find a good sleep therapist.

[q_q_]

<snip>
Lubab, the problem started about 4 years ago when one time I had trouble falling asleep. Ever since then, my body automatically fears not being able to fall asleep and tenses up when I am about to go to bed. My heart rate increases automatically and I have zero control over this. Its a major psychological problem and its super strange as I am generally a calm person and my only anxiety is about sleep. I went to a sleep psychologist at cornell and they couldnt help me. Part of the problem is that I know that if I dont sleep, I will be hurt in school etc... and this only ads to the problem.

If it is the thought or any thoughts that are the problem.. Maybe you need something to take your mind off te fact that you are sleeping. As far as you are concerned, you are relaxing - including relaxing the mind.
So that's an association you could work on.. With CBT perhaps.

But another thing you could try is a Light Sound device.  I haven't tried it, but it may give you something to focus on when sleeping.
I don't know if they are safe, or if one can even sleep with them.  I can tell you that it's something I would try even without a problem sleeping!

QQ, I have tried every mental trick you could think of. The problem is just too severe. My body has an automatic reaction. benzodiazepine class meds have worked for me. Valium and Restoril both help me but I need a med free solution. I dont want to have to take pills to sleep.

With the  yoga  possibility, see if your body hits that reaction during yoga. If so, then that is an ideal place where it can be corrected, since you will be near somebody who is an expert at relaxing.

if you haven't slept in days, then you shoul be able to hit that point in front of somebody, and then they could perhaps talk you into relaxing.
An issue with sleeping is that the sleeping is usually a solitary thing (unless one is married). And it is not near a sleep expert or psychologist or psychiatrist.
If you can be talked into relaxing into a sleep, and hit that point in front of a CBT person, they might be able to help there.

Have you been in a situation where the person that knows about sleep has -caught- you when you run into the problem?  is it easy to trigger the problem in front of them ?
If so, then there ar emany opportunities to deal with it.

If you really are very deprived of sleep, you could probably get to that point of almost going ot sleep, almost anywhere, and get that reaction. So there would be many opportunities for other people to talk you into some better association, until you can do it yourself.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

This is not a healthy way, but a unique one that might work.   I don't have insomnia, but I do have trouble waking early in the morning, so sometimes when I have to be up real early for something particular, in fear that I might not get up, I pull an all-nighter (zero sleep at all, not even a 1-hour nap).  Then I make sure that I don't take any naps the next day, using coffee or whatever I have to do to stay up that whole day, surviving until 9 or 10 at night.  Then go to sleep at this point and I am so exhausted I can sleep in any condition really (lights on, clothes on, doesn't matter, if my head hits a pillow I am out cold).   As long as you get through the entire next day without any nap, you will be so exhausted by 10pm that night, that you will likely pass out quite easily.  

I find that the following day, (after the allnighter, after the 10pm lights out), I will wake up sometime in the morning, but when 10pm rolls around the next night, I am programmed to be tired and get to bed then just like the night before (even if I was habitually going to bed at 2 in the morning prior to the allnighter).  It is like a shortcut way to force the body to tire earlier at night.  shock it with the allnighter, then stretch it out til 10pm exhausted, then after a full night's sleep, the following day the body will be accustomed to go to sleep again about 24 hours later, so at 10pm you will be tired.  

  I feel like if you get tired enough the insomnia will be overpowered and become irrelevant, since there is a certain involuntary nature in the allnighter-recovery sleep, which I have experienced, but I don't know much about insomnia at all.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

                                                                                                                       בס''ד

1. Taking sleeping pills does not help. These unnatural medications are genuinely dangerous. The medications distort the body's chemistry, create dependence, and can suppress the immune system (which can lead to all types of deadly diseases).

2. Try to go to sleep at the same time every evening. Condition your body clock to go to sleep at a certain time. Because if you try to sleep at different times every night, your body has a more difficult time adjusting.

3. Do not eat or drink garbage. No more coffee, no caffeinated tea, no soda, no foods with sugar like cakes and candy. If you eat and drink only healthy natural food, your body will not be alternately stimulated and depressed, which can disrupt sleep.

4. No alcohol. Alcohol causes you to sleep for a short period, and then you wake up and are unable to fall back asleep. Alcohol disrupts sleep.

5. You must learn to relax. This is the most important thing of all. Just relax your mind before going to sleep. When you wake up in the morning, you can try your best to deal with all of the problems. But at night, there is nothing you can do about these problems. The only way you can effectively solve the problems is if you sleep properly. So relax and and don't even think about the problems. Think about something else that gives you peace of mind.

If you do all of these things, believe me, you will get to sleep naturally.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

                                                                                                                     בס''ד

Also, make sure that your bedroom is completely dark. Even if your eyes are closed, it is difficult to sleep if any light hits your eyes. Make sure that your blinds are shut tight so that no sunlight gets into your room in the early morning hours. This also affects the quality of your sleep.

[Scriabin]

Chaim is correct.

You need to cease thinking when its time to go to bed.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

But I think it would be helpful to study the Kriyat Shema Al Hamita (the prayers recited say it every night) and say it each night before you go to sleep.

It will calm you down.

First, it doesn't hurt to try it. If it works it would be an "immediate solution".
Second, is there something specific about going to sleep that scares you? Is it the loss of control, the loss of awareness of your surroundings. Do any of these things scare you?

Lubab, the problem started about 4 years ago when one time I had trouble falling asleep. Ever since then, my body automatically fears not being able to fall asleep and tenses up when I am about to go to bed. My heart rate increases automatically and I have zero control over this. Its a major psychological problem and its super strange as I am generally a calm person and my only anxiety is about sleep. I went to a sleep psychologist at cornell and they couldnt help me. Part of the problem is that I know that if I dont sleep, I will be hurt in school etc... and this only ads to the problem.

Don't be tense about going to sleep. Be confident that eventually you are going to sleep because you are determined to relax.

And I agree with Lubab, that kriyat shma al hamita helps a great deal. If you believe that Hashem will help you fall asleep, that will help you relax.

[DownwithIslam]

But I think it would be helpful to study the Kriyat Shema Al Hamita (the prayers recited say it every night) and say it each night before you go to sleep.

It will calm you down.

First, it doesn't hurt to try it. If it works it would be an "immediate solution".
Second, is there something specific about going to sleep that scares you? Is it the loss of control, the loss of awareness of your surroundings. Do any of these things scare you?

Lubab, the problem started about 4 years ago when one time I had trouble falling asleep. Ever since then, my body automatically fears not being able to fall asleep and tenses up when I am about to go to bed. My heart rate increases automatically and I have zero control over this. Its a major psychological problem and its super strange as I am generally a calm person and my only anxiety is about sleep. I went to a sleep psychologist at cornell and they couldnt help me. Part of the problem is that I know that if I dont sleep, I will be hurt in school etc... and this only ads to the problem.

Don't be tense about going to sleep. Be confident that eventually you are going to sleep because you are determined to relax.

And I agree with Lubab, that kriyat shma al hamita helps a great deal. If you believe that Hashem will help you fall asleep, that will help you relax.

Chaim thanks for the response. I wish I could just stop thinking when I go to sleep and relax but my body automatically gets tense and my heart starts racing  at bedtime. The sleep psychologist couldn't help me. Their is no way for me to relax when my heart starts beating quicker. This is a crazy mental issue I have. I will take your advice though and I will try to just be calm. I hope it helps.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

I have a different sleep problem.

I have no difficulty falling asleep when I get into bed. But I do not sleep enough because I do not have enough time to sleep - which I know is crazy. I want to sleep but I always have something essential to do and so I end up staying up late.

Which reminds me of another part of healthy sleeping - the best way to get quality sleep is to go to bed early and to wake up early. Sleeping at night is much better than sleeping during daylight hours.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

If you do all of the things I have suggested, starting with the 5 things in reply number 36, you will eventually relax and learn to sleep. Maybe not right away, but if you keep working at it, you will overcome this problem eventually.

[DownwithIslam]

If you do all of the things I have suggested, starting with the 5 things in reply number 36, you will eventually relax and learn to sleep. Maybe not right away, but if you keep working at it, you will overcome this problem eventually.

Chaim, of course I will try them and I thank you for taking the time to respond with your wisdom. I really hope you are right.

[q_q_]

the light sound device, hypnosis, CBT,  all deal with the mental aspect.

the way a light sound device works, is it uses 2 different frequencies which causes your mind to fall into different states, alpha, beta, theta.  I doubt many people are worrying in that state.

Hypnosis would also work on the subconscious level very directly.

CBT, would be more work.  It would be done while conscious, to train you so that when less conscious, you think differently.

Don't forget these things in favour of just going to a sleep therapist..

It's a list of things to try. Not just one thing and giving up.

I notice you mentioned a sleep therapist.  Maybe.. But I would consider a sleep disorder clinic
They can actually monitor you when you sleep.. I have seen such a clinic on a tv program

[DownwithIslam]

qq, sleep clinics mainly deal with fat people who have sleep apnea. I have researched this and I know that is what they deal with. What I need is a good sleep psychologist to get this problem out of my head.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Also try deep breathing once you lie down and meditation techniques like with your eyes closed imagining yourself in some kind of pastoral scene or a beachfront watching the water like in the corona commercial.

[DownwithIslam]

Also try deep breathing once you lie down and meditation techniques like with your eyes closed imagining yourself in some kind of pastoral scene or a beachfront watching the water like in the corona commercial.

I have tried this and my body just doesn't respond. My body just remains tense and on the edge when its bedtime.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Wow--Chaim himself stepped in to write you a really nice and detailed response. He really likes you! Anyhow, not sure how much I can add, but I agree with pretty much everything he said. I get insomnia too pretty often--not to the extent that you do, but I have had plenty of agonights (new word I just coined  ). Usually, when I cannot sleep, it is because I am dreading getting up early the next day (as in for work), am really excited about something the next day or in that week, or am frustrated about something (like girls). Sometimes I can't get back to sleep in the middle of the night because I am thinking of some tragic world events (i.e. Israel). I never have insomnia if I have nothing going on the next day or do not have to get up particularly early. It has never been a severe enough problem that I have been forced to get help--besides, I certainly do not want to get on any sleeping meds (Chaim is absolutely right on this).

Benadryl (diphenhydramine) pills (just one, or two if you really need sleep) are quite benign and have no real harmful effects on the body at all normal doses. They can help in a pinch, but your body develops tolerance almost immediately, so you can't really use them more than twice in a week or three or four times in a month. The downside is that they make you feel really weird (like your head is filled with sand--it's hard to explain). It isn't that bad if you go right to sleep on them, but if you can't (like because you already built a tolerance), it is a pretty rotten experience to undergo for eight hours. BTW, if you go this route, be sure to find generic brand diphenhydramine tablets because they are cheaper than Benadryl.

[q_q_]

qq, sleep clinics mainly deal with fat people who have sleep apnea. I have researched this and I know that is what they deal with. What I need is a good sleep psychologist to get this problem out of my head.

ok. forget sleep clinic. What about hypnosis as a possibility?

Cleverly done. Not just putting you to sleep once. But reprogramming your subconscious for when you do want to sleep, so you don't worry. So you can clear your mind when trying to sleep.