Girls perform just as well as boys in math

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Interesting story... not all that relevant to JTF, but interesting conversation fodder. This report buttresses what I have been claiming all along--namely, that the differences between the sexes are primarily due to nurture and not genetics or design (see, for instance, my debate with Dan and Scriabin last week about what women really want and/or are "programmed" to want).

Math Study Discovers Girls Do Equally Well As Boys

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080724/ap_on_re_us/girls_math

Math study finds girls are just as good as boys
By LIBBY QUAID, AP Education Writer
Thu Jul 24, 2:05 PM ET
 
WASHINGTON - Sixteen years after Barbie dolls declared, "Math class is tough!" girls are proving that when it comes to math they are just as tough as boys. In the largest study of its kind, girls measured up to boys in every grade, from second through 11th. The research was released Thursday in the journal Science.
 
Parents and teachers persist in thinking boys are simply better at math, said Janet Hyde, the University of Wisconsin-Madison researcher who led the study. And girls who grow up believing it wind up avoiding harder math classes.

"It keeps girls and women out of a lot of careers, particularly high-prestige, lucrative careers in science and technology," Hyde said.

That's changing, though slowly.

Women are now earning 48 percent of undergraduate college degrees in math; they still lag far behind in physics and engineering.

But in primary and secondary school, girls have caught up, with researchers attributing that advance to increasing numbers of girls taking advanced math classes such as calculus.

Hyde and her colleagues looked at annual math tests required by the No Child Left Behind education law in 2002. Ten states provided enough statistical information to review test scores by gender, allowing researchers to compare the performances of more than 7 million children.

The researchers found no difference in the scores of boys versus girls — not even in high school. Studies 20 years ago showed girls and boys did equally well on math in elementary school, but girls fell behind in high school.

"Girls have now achieved gender parity in performance on standardized math tests," Hyde said.

The stereotype that boys are better at math has been fueled, at least in part, by suggestions of biological differences in the way little boys and little girls learn. This idea is hotly disputed; Lawrence Summers, then the president of Harvard, was castigated in 2005 when he questioned the "intrinsic aptitude" of women for top-level math and science.

Joy Lee, a rising senior at Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology in Alexandria, Va., says she always felt confident about math, but remembers how it felt to walk into a science class full of boys. "Maybe I was a little bit apprehensive about being the only girl, but that didn't last for very long," said Lee, president of a school club that tries to get young girls interested in science and technology, along with engineering and math.

"I definitely do encourage other girls to pursue those interests and to not be scared to take those courses just because there are not very many girls or because they think they're not good enough to do it," Lee said.

Still, while there are fewer women in science and technology, there are more women in college overall. To Hyde and her colleagues, that helps explain why girls consistently score lower on average on the SAT: More of them take the test, which is needed to get into college. The highest-performing students of both genders take the test, but more girls lower on the achievement scale take it, skewing the average.

For the class of 2007, the latest figures available, boys scored an average of 533 on the math section of the SAT, compared with 499 for girls.

On the ACT, another test on which girls lag slightly, the gender gap disappeared in Colorado and Illinois once state officials required all students to take the test.

As Hyde and her colleagues looked across the data for states' testing, they found something they didn't expect: In most states they reviewed, and at most grade levels, there weren't any questions that involved complex problem-solving, an ability needed to succeed in high levels of science and math. If tests don't assess these reasoning skills, they may not be taught, putting American students at a disadvantage to students in other countries with more challenging tests, the researchers said.

That might be a glaring omission, said Stephen Camarata, a Vanderbilt University professor who has researched the issue but was not involved in the study.

"We need to know that, if our measures aren't capturing some aspect of math that's important," Camarata said. "Then we can decide whether there's an actual male or female advantage."

A panel of experts convened by the Education Department recommended that state tests be updated to emphasize critical thinking.

While some states already have fairly rigorous tests, "we can do a better job," said Kerri Briggs, the department's assistant secretary for elementary and secondary education.

"If we're going to be globally competitive, we need students who are able to do higher-level math skills," she said.

Back in 1992, Barbie stopped saying math was hard after Mattel received complaints from, among others, the American Association of University Women.

So far, while her current career choices include baby doctor and veterinarian — and Dallas Cowboys cheerleader, too — Barbie has not branched out into technology or engineering.

[muman613]

Duh,

There is nothing new about this. We have known that men and woman can do similar jobs. The issue is that Women are the only humans who can have children, men cant. We are not equal...

As a result the women are required to care for the family and the man is  the one who supports the family. This doesnt mean woman are intrinsically different, but they are required for the continuance of the family.

Im sure this will be used by the Feminist movement to continue the desecration of the family. I can hear them already.

muman613

PS: My GF is a math major who teaches math in High School. I have known that women are good at math for a long time. When I met her she was working as a Computer Software engineer for Hughes aircraft. There is nothing wrong for women to be smart, so long as they are feminine and able to raise a family.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Feminism or not, I want everyone to be able to pursue their dreams and do whatever they want.

Now, if women start getting preferential treatment in science or math jobs because of affirmative action (which we know has gone on), I will be very upset.

Still, I would much rather a marginally-qualified white woman get a job than an illiterate, incompetent brotha or sistah. Umm-hmm!

[AsheDina]

Duh,

There is nothing new about this. We have known that men and woman can do similar jobs. The issue is that Women are the only humans who can have children, men cant. We are not equal...

As a result the women are required to care for the family and the man is  the one who supports the family. This doesnt mean woman are intrinsically different, but they are required for the continuance of the family.

Im sure this will be used by the Feminist movement to continue the desecration of the family. I can hear them already.

muman613

PS: My GF is a math major who teaches math in High School. I have known that women are good at math for a long time. When I met her she was working as a Computer Software engineer for Hughes aircraft. There is nothing wrong for women to be smart, so long as they are feminine and able to raise a family.

  Well, ya know (where is RubyStars....? uh oh, hope she doesn't see this..tee hee) Well, women are better at home, barefoot and pregnant. Really SUPER feminine, being able to embroider well, cook good, and look like knockouts when the husband gets home, always be a cheerleader and have many GIGANTIC ostrich feather fans sitting around. Well- THAT is MY idea of the FEMININE movement. Then again, Nana ALWAYS said, I was NOT suppose to be in this Century. Math? well- B O R I N G.  Music, Art, Poetry, flowers, hats, nice hair- MUCH BETTER.

[briann]

Theres a few things missing

1) Women CHOOSE not to want to be in math intensive fields (Engineering, etc)
and  Conversely.. Women CHOOSE to focus more on NON mathematical fields in College (Law, English, Communications, etc)
3) women have equal IQ's to men... BUT men's standard deviation is much greater (More Idiots, More Geuniuses)
4) women typicaly (But not always) CHOOSE to take significant time off from work.. to focus on family issues.
5) men have more tunnel vision (Focusing on work work work) the women when they hit their 30's.

All this combines to explain why you see more men than women certain fields and why more men have prominent positions as entrepeneurs, scientists, engineers, inventors, etc.

NONE of this has to do with social constructs.. which is a bunch of Liberal B.S.

[AsheDina]

Theres a few things missing

1) Women CHOOSE not to want to be in math intensive fields (Engineering, etc)
and  Conversely.. Women CHOOSE to focus more on NON mathematical fields in College (Law, English, Communications, etc)
3) women have equal IQ's to men... BUT men's standard deviation is much greater (More Idiots, More Geuniuses)
4) women typicaly (But not always) CHOOSE to take significant time off from work.. to focus on family issues.
5) men have more tunnel vision (Focusing on work work work) the women when they hit their 30's.

All this combines to explain why you see more men than women certain fields and why more men have prominent positions as entrepeneurs, scientists, engineers, inventors, etc.

NONE of this has to do with social constructs.. which is a bunch of Liberal B.S.

 MAN! Why is this one not rotating? This is a GREAT topic!

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Theres a few things missing

1) Women CHOOSE not to want to be in math intensive fields (Engineering, etc)
and  Conversely.. Women CHOOSE to focus more on NON mathematical fields in College (Law, English, Communications, etc)
3) women have equal IQ's to men... BUT men's standard deviation is much greater (More Idiots, More Geuniuses)
4) women typicaly (But not always) CHOOSE to take significant time off from work.. to focus on family issues.
5) men have more tunnel vision (Focusing on work work work) the women when they hit their 30's.

All this combines to explain why you see more men than women certain fields and why more men have prominent positions as entrepeneurs, scientists, engineers, inventors, etc.

NONE of this has to do with social constructs.. which is a bunch of Liberal B.S.

Actually, except for point 3, these are all social constructs.  But I know what you were getting at.

[Rubystars]

Duh,

There is nothing new about this. We have known that men and woman can do similar jobs. The issue is that Women are the only humans who can have children, men cant. We are not equal...

As a result the women are required to care for the family and the man is  the one who supports the family. This doesnt mean woman are intrinsically different, but they are required for the continuance of the family.

Im sure this will be used by the Feminist movement to continue the desecration of the family. I can hear them already.

muman613

PS: My GF is a math major who teaches math in High School. I have known that women are good at math for a long time. When I met her she was working as a Computer Software engineer for Hughes aircraft. There is nothing wrong for women to be smart, so long as they are feminine and able to raise a family.

  Well, ya know (where is RubyStars....? uh oh, hope she doesn't see this..tee hee) Well, women are better at home, barefoot and pregnant. Really SUPER feminine, being able to embroider well, cook good, and look like knockouts when the husband gets home, always be a cheerleader and have many GIGANTIC ostrich feather fans sitting around. Well- THAT is MY idea of the FEMININE movement. Then again, Nana ALWAYS said, I was NOT suppose to be in this Century. Math? well- B O R I N G.  Music, Art, Poetry, flowers, hats, nice hair- MUCH BETTER.

tee hee 

[AsheDina]

Duh,

There is nothing new about this. We have known that men and woman can do similar jobs. The issue is that Women are the only humans who can have children, men cant. We are not equal...

As a result the women are required to care for the family and the man is  the one who supports the family. This doesnt mean woman are intrinsically different, but they are required for the continuance of the family.

Im sure this will be used by the Feminist movement to continue the desecration of the family. I can hear them already.

muman613

PS: My GF is a math major who teaches math in High School. I have known that women are good at math for a long time. When I met her she was working as a Computer Software engineer for Hughes aircraft. There is nothing wrong for women to be smart, so long as they are feminine and able to raise a family.

  Well, ya know (where is RubyStars....? uh oh, hope she doesn't see this..tee hee) Well, women are better at home, barefoot and pregnant. Really SUPER feminine, being able to embroider well, cook good, and look like knockouts when the husband gets home, always be a cheerleader and have many GIGANTIC ostrich feather fans sitting around. Well- THAT is MY idea of the FEMININE movement. Then again, Nana ALWAYS said, I was NOT suppose to be in this Century. Math? well- B O R I N G.  Music, Art, Poetry, flowers, hats, nice hair- MUCH BETTER.

tee hee 

    DINGBAT ALERT!   lol

[muman613]

Im Laughing Out Loud!

muman613
     

[Rubystars]

At least we can have fun in these threads sometimes.

[AsheDina]

Im Laughing Out Loud!

muman613
     

  <<< Is Ruby over there? ok- be vewy vewy quiet... See, I actually believe everything I wrote. So, as far as today's woman goes- I AM A DINGBAT, and dang proud of IT  Not many 'dingbats' like me alive and well, and living in this century.. Matter of FACT, us dingbats are just about EXTINCT. Ruby and I, see- we LOVE to argue over the gal pals club of she beasts. She has had to bust my poor brain in, b/c I am in the dark ages as far as women go.. but she agrees that this sick and demented fem-nazi jezebels from hell, have royally screwed the American "White" male, in particular. So we really ARE on the SAME team.  Yep- "I'm a W O M A N--- w-o-m-a-n, I'll say it again.....!!"

[muman613]

It sounds good to me. I know you are more than just a dingbat though... Your opinions and thoughts always seem to be right on the mark. That is something which real men look for too {well, some dont really care about that}. Even my dad, when I talked to him recently, told me he had a girlfriend who was a total dingbat and she drove him away. He also says my Mom was the most intelligent and interesting of all his wives. I know that sounds funny, that is why I said it... He remarried many times, my mom was his 2nd wife. I was the firstborn and my brother was 3 years younger than me.

Having said that I understand what you are saying and I must admit it sounds like you girls are both spunky and very interesting...

muman613

[Rubystars]

I just think both sexes should be respected and nobody should have their human rights trampled on. Sexism against males is horrible, and "feminazis" are bad about that. However I told Paulette a while back that the She-beast is an extreme response by some to the He-beast of the past and present. The He-Beast is, in modern times, most exemplified by Muslims, but such "men" existed here in the West as well.

[muman613]

I just think both sexes should be respected and nobody should have their human rights trampled on. Sexism against males is horrible, and "feminazis" are bad about that. However I told Paulette a while back that the She-beast is an extreme response by some to the He-beast of the past and present. The He-Beast is, in modern times, most exemplified by Muslims, but such "men" existed here in the West as well.

Ruby,

I will agree with you. But you must agree that along with rights we all have responsibilities too. Whenever I hear about Human Rights I always ask myself where these rights come from. Hashem is very kind and his wisdom is beyond calculation. He is righteous and doesnt ask too much from us. It is possible to have seperation of the sexes and still be equal.

I say this because I daven with a minyan with seperate women and men sections. The women daven with each other on the other side of the mehizah. In no way is this intended as a lessening of the women because according to halacha they are not obliged to daven at the times men are. But inevitably there are women who complain about this. Is it a human right to daven with the men?

muman613

PS: I hope I didnt come off like a male chauvinist because I am most certainly not. Just ask my gf who is very smart and independent.

[Rubystars]

Ruby,

I will agree with you. But you must agree that along with rights we all have responsibilities too. Whenever I hear about Human Rights I always ask myself where these rights come from. Hashem is very kind and his wisdom is beyond calculation. He is righteous and doesnt ask too much from us. It is possible to have seperation of the sexes and still be equal.

I say this because I daven with a minyan with seperate women and men sections. The women daven with each other on the other side of the mehizah. In no way is this intended as a lessening of the women because according to halacha they are not obliged to daven at the times men are. But inevitably there are women who complain about this. Is it a human right to daven with the men?

I'm not going to dictate how Jews should practice their religion. That's really up to Jews to decide that kind of thing.

As far as human rights go, the ability to choose your life's path rather than having it forced upon you seems to be a pretty fundamental one. Some women feel fulfilled in having large families and making their homes comfortable. I support those women. However I also support women who make other choices, so long as they're not acting in immoral ways.

[muman613]

I agree. Every soul is free and has free will in this world. It is wrong for anything to be imposed on a person. I am one who believes that everything in this world is dependent on the principle of free will. This understanding affects every aspect of my reality. One major problem I see with Islam is that it is imposed on the people. We must convert or die. If we violate the rule, we die. It is all about dying and death. Judaism is about choosing life.

good morning...

muman613