Palestinians in Lebanon.

[MasterWolf1]

I do want to see the Christians in Lebanon as well as so many Christians in the Mid East stand together with us.. We do know what Muslims for example did to them and the Copt. But there are some I don't know maybe cause of fear that do side wit the Islamic hordes. But that is unfortunate, cause the Muslim hordes have murdered so many Christians through out that region, burn down churches, murdered Priests and Clergy and raped nuns. 

Is it fear though that some do side with the Muzzheads?

[Zelhar]

I do want to see the Christians in Lebanon as well as so many Christians in the Mid East stand together with us.. We do know what Muslims for example did to them and the Copt. But there are some I don't know maybe cause of fear that do side wit the Islamic hordes. But that is unfortunate, cause the Muslim hordes have murdered so many Christians through out that region, burn down churches, murdered Priests and Clergy and raped nuns. 

Is it fear though that some do side with the Muzzheads?

They are completely hopeless. Even the former Tzadal (Southern Lebanon Army), a christian militia supported by Israel until 2000, was completely inflitrated by shiite Hezbullah agents. Instead of erradicating Islam from the little security zone which they controlled, they had let the muslims destroy them from within and the security zone became completely unsecured for Israel and for Tzadal.

[Zelhar]

BTW, talking about silly people, QQ your proposal that Israel clears Lebanon of Islam and then invite the Lebanese Christian diaspora back is silly. They will immediately invite the muslims back to Lebanon because essentially they are cowards dihimis who afraid to fight the muslims, and fight they must, since it is the middle east. A few of them, like Samir Jaja, do have the courage to fight back, that is because some of them do have the cruel Arab mentality, and like Arabs- they are the least reliable ally.

[Ultra Requete]

I agree but this is in reality the work for France, UK and USA not Israel. Imagine all this money the western countries are giving to Philistines put on good use. And Lebanese diaspora must do the same the XIX century Jews did; create their own zionist movement aimed at resetling of their ancient land; You already have money (lebanese Chrisatian diaspora in USA is very wealthy) to buy back the land; Now you have to learn how to use riffle to defend it.   

[Dr. Dan]

get your terms correct.  There is no "Palestine" or "Palestinian."  Those Arabs are arabs..just like Jordanians are arabs and Iraqis are arabs and certain Egyptians are arabs.....All arabs belong in Saudi Arabia

[lebanese]

Some side with the Islamists maybe to protect them because they know that Hezbollah is a very strong party. They are the half of the population having they have syrians and many palestinians with them. so standing against them may mean no existence.

[lebanese]

Thank you for telling us that we are cowards though I do not think so. We had a history in our country that tells us how much we were courageous. God will help us.

"For the violence done to Lebanon will overwhelm you, And the devastation of its beasts by which you terrified them, Because of human bloodshed and violence done to the land, To the town and all its inhabitants." Habakkuk 2:17

[lebanese]

Ultra Requete

I think you're right at some point.. The Lebanese diaspora should stand together. There are certain lands to buy but don not forget that many many lands aere occupied by the Palestinians and Hezbollah and others. In a town I used to go to in the summer, muslims have built a mosquee on lands that are to the Christians. In the town I come from, muslims have built homes on our lands.

[Masha]

Lebanon should be a Christian country, but the nation's Christians have given it over to Iranian-backed muslim fanatics. Lebanon's Christian population is destined to be splintered around the globe.

Didn't Chaim say in his program that Lebanon belongs to Israel? That is to say it was bequeathed by G-d to Israel and should be included into Greater Israel. I am confused as to where the borders of the Restored Israel should be drawn, according to G-d's will. Should all of Lebanon belong to Israel or only part of it? Should Lebanon even exist? Does anyone know?

[lebanese]

also, this should be the international community concern. France, US and the West never cared about the Christians of Lebanon after the war. US fought against us during the war. The money is used to help the Palestinians. Europe is more concerned with its relations with the Arab countries. USA never cared and I dunno what the US wants from us. They simply asked us to leave the country before the war. Iran is using its money in Lebanon. Saudi Arabia also. The problem is bigger than having us buying the lands. Like I said, a big number of the lands don't need to be bought. They are us already. The problem is more political. In the Chouf, the situation is instable. Even though you have lands, the Druzes may commit a massacre against you and put you out. In the South, Hezbollah is very fanatic and arrogant. In Beirut, the Sunni killed PM Rafik Hairiri passed laws that led to the non appropriation of many Lebanese of homes in Beirut. They made West Beirut a sunni one. There are places for the Christians like Metn, Keserwan, East Beirut, the majority I guess of the North. The Bekaa was 80 % Christians, now it is 80% Chiites. Many Lebanese sold their lands but I do not consider that this was the real catastrophe on us. We were more pushed out by the huge powers in the world than simply given up. I don t want to justify but I am simply trying to advise me on what we can do. How we can gain the world sympathy and stop telling us nationalize your palestinians.

[Zelhar]

listen my point is that there is no middle path for the Christians, you must fight the Arabs or give in to them and become Arabs (those of you who haven't been Arabized). Even if you somehow win back Lebanon you'd have to fight Syria and all the other Arabs. Thast's the cruel reality.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

                                                                                                                                                                  בס''ד

Zelhar is correct. Lebanon is an artificial country that was created by the French colonialists.

Lebanon is part of Eretz Yisrael (the Land of Israel). Chazal (the Talmudic rabbinic authorities) have disagreements as to how far north the border should be, but there is no dispute that a major portion of Lebanon is part of the G-d-given Land of Israel.

The reason there is war and terror in the north is because G-d wants to force Israel to liberate more of the Jewish homeland. There will never be peace or security until Israel liberates what belongs to the Jewish people and encourages the local Arab population to permanently leave.

Lebanon is over 60% Muslim, and that figure is growing each year because of two key factors: one, a huge Muslim birthrate; and two, thousands of members of the Christian (mostly Maronite) minority are emigrating to Western countries each year.

Many Lebanese Christians have traditionally taken militantly anti-Israel and anti-American positions in a vain attempt to appease the Muslim world and to show the Muslims that they are loyal Arabs.

There are also Lebanese Christians who have become very wealthy dealing with the Muslim world, and so they are pro-Muslim and anti-Israel and anti-American for business purposes.

And there are Lebanese Christians who genuinely think of themselves as Arabs, identify themselves as Arabs, and as such defend the Arab world's campaign to destroy America and Israel.

But there are also Lebanese Christians who hate the Arabs and the Muslims. These pro-Western Christians would prefer Israeli rule over Syrian rule.

Lebanon is a small, very weak and divided nation of 4 million people. Lebanon is too weak, too divided and too small to survive in the brutal Middle East. Right now, Lebanon is occupied by Syria. The Syrian terrorist army has occupied Lebanon since 1976.

Either Lebanon will continue to be ruled by Syria and Iran (through the Iranian terrorist proxy, Hezballah), or Lebanon will be liberated by Israel and become part of the Jewish homeland.

If Israel does not liberate Lebanon, then that nation will continue to be a Syrian-Iranian puppet state that produces Islamic terrorism, hatred and mass murder.

[lebanese]

Lebanon will be liberated when Jesus comes.

[Dr. Dan]

Lebanon will be liberated when Jesus comes.

no comment....but if you are referring in the world to come, lebanon will already have been liberated by Israel, Gd willing.

[GoIsraelGo!]

I don't care what befalls the fakenstinians in Lebanon or anywhere. The same goes for any other quranimal beast living there. If and when the Jewish people liberates their ancestral lands in Lebanon then all quranimals will be forced to leave as well as any Christian who supports them.

Zelhar, the picture is an excellent example of the truth. So glad you posted that.  ^5



                                                                                                     Shalom - Dox

[q_q_]

get your terms correct.  There is no "Palestine" or "Palestinian."  Those Arabs are arabs..just like Jordanians are arabs and Iraqis are arabs and certain Egyptians are arabs.....All arabs belong in Saudi Arabia

ther are a particular bunch of arabs
There are "palestinians" if you include quotes in writing, or bend your fingers in conversation, and we know what we are talking about

they are not a nation in themselves, they are the arabs that were living in mandatory palestine .. some of which stayed . some fled  ..
the "palestinians" that stayed in 1948 in the -jewish state- section or jewish state israel "won", got offered citizenship and got called "israeli arabs",

the ones that fled fled to lebanon, jordan,
and the ones that were in the gaza strip and "west bank", that got taken by egypt and jordan respectively in 1948, were still called "palestinians".
I guess the ones in the west bank are jordanian citizens..
http://www.globalyouthconnect.org/country_jordan.html
"In February 1960, Jordan offered citizenship to Palestinian refugees"

You can talkj about "palestinians" - not as a nation, but to refer to a certain group of people, or bunch of arabs.. A bunch of arabs that formed the PLO and were expelled from jordan into lebanon. A bunch of arabs - mostly muslims that together with lebanese muslims and syria, destroyed lebanon(which had a christian govt, majourity christian population and booming economy - these are all gone, I guess the christian govt is gone now)..

The word Arab is not very specific.  Fact is..  Putting "palestinian" in quotes.  The land was called "mandatory palestine", 2 "palestinian" states were meant to be created - one for jews, one for arabs.   The arabs are no more "palestinian" than the jews are. Both immigrated..
this is why some "palestinian" sympathizers talk about offering a jewish state only to those jews  that were there pre 1948. Large waves of Jewish immigration started from the 1880s The vast majourity of the arab population immigrated there once jews started and built the land.  Britain limited jewish immigration with the -white paper- and allowed unlimited arab immigration.
golda meir once said "we are the palestinians".  And ""There were no such thing as Palestinians.....".

Arabs whose origins are in "mandatory palestine", one might call them "palestinians", are no more indiginous than jews pre 1948 are.. . Jews or arabs of mandatory palestine as just as "palestinian" as each other. And jews post 1948 immigrated quite rightly, into Israel - the jewish state.

This bunch of arabs "palestinians", (not a nation, of course).. But we should know who we are referring to.  They have - with the PLO - worked  to destroy christian lebanon, and i'm sure there is evidence of how they have been oppressed in other arab countries.. So one can say. Don't tell israel to give "palestinians" rights.. you arabs or those you represent have  done fat aworse to the "palestinians".  It's worth looking into how "palestinian" refugees have been treated. .
I must say though. it seems their rights in Syria are pretty good
http://www.forcedmigration.org/guides/fmo017/
rihts of education, employment.. just not granted citizenship in order to "preserve their original nationality"
It was just israel that was dumb enough to follow lebanon and allow the PLO in.  The arab countries who have had real problems from "palestinians" were the ones that had the PLO.. Jordan, Lebanon.  Jordan actually made "palestinians" citizens..

It is worth looking at Lebanon and Jordan as examples  of what palestinians can do, and how -as a minimum- to deal with them..
Jordan survived because it got rid of the PLO.. they massacred 10s of thousands in one month. 
Lebanon is a smaller country than jordan, sure. But they kept the PLO and didn't massacre enough palestinans or PLO or expel them.. and look what happened to them..  It turned from the switzerland of the middle east, into a hell hole. I guess there would have been even more violence in lebanon if israel hadn't taken the PLO from them!

It's important to stress that there is no "palestinian" nation.

But if you refuse to use the term, you are  making things more difficult for yourself to understand history.. because you lack words..  You are exiling yourself from any analysis of the subject..  You are even failing to argue with our opponents by simply not accepting the terms of the discussion.
So you are merely preaching to the choir.  If you are to talk to people about it, then use the word. Say that the israeli-arabs are palestinains tand they were offered citizenship - to israel's detriment.  You cna say that the jews of 1948 israel were just as much "palestinian" as them.. and jews since then have every right to immigrate to israel.


of course, we should understnad that they turned the israel-arab conflict into an israeli-palestinan conflict.. to make them david and israel goliath... and to assert their independence..   But sometimes we need words to refer to certain bunch of arabs.. and we can put it in quotes.. or say it in inverted commars.

If you keep blanking when the term is used(thinking egypt, syria, all arabs, same thing), you won't even be able to read a book describing 1948 or 1967. you have to recognise what is being referred to -specifically-.

[lebanese]

Thank you for the explanation:)

[GoIsraelGo!]

Lebanese you may be not 'talking' to me but I 'hear' you anyway.

All of Lebanon up to the Litani is part of Israel and will one day be liberated. You are raising the fakenstinian problem as if it is the biggest problem of lebanon. In fact it is not,  the problem is that lebanon is an evil muslim arab artifificial country.

Zelhar, look at her name ~~~> Lebanese. It speaks for itself. You see it too!  ^5 to your perception.


                                                                                          Shalom - Dox

[q_q_]

Thank you for the explanation:)

if it were an explanation of the term palestinian.. I would have had to add

jews had an ancient enemy called the philistines, in hebrew, pelishtim...
that letter without a dot is pronounced F.  What do the arabs call "palestinians"? falestinians? faleshtim?


the name of the land as palestine, was given by the roman emporer hadrian, after jews were exiled.. it was named after the enemy of G-d and the jewish people, an enemy named in the bible, the philistines.

some jews, and no doubt some arabs were there originally. But if they want to claim they are the original inhabitants, the "palestinians". Well,  ALL jews are from that land!

sephardim they don't seem to have a problem with sephardim being of hebrew origin!
Ashkanzim , they all khazars. Maybe a small minority are.. But it has been shown by genetic testing, that ashkenazim have origins in the land of israel.

The jews are refugees.. one might say, "palestinian refugees"! Moreso than the so-called "palestinians" are.  We Jews are still the same nation, we speak the same language, follow the same religion as we ded.  There were no arabs there. The arabs were from saudi arabia only and spread out after islam.
the philistines/"palestinians" were not an arabic speaking people! Their language which isn't entirely semitic either! is extinct. (wikipedia on the philistine language may be of interest)

I was suprised, but you probably know this.. Many lebanese christians don't consider themselves arab.. Brigitte Gabriel mentioned this..


Having said where the name palestine/palestinian comes from.. (roman emporer hadrian that wanted to mock the jews and named hte land after an ancient enemy)..

rabbi kahane is showing how silly the name palestinian for these arab enemies is. He made the funny point.. that if the romans hadn't called it palestine, would we now be fighting the "judean terrorists"?



there are some young countries.. you could say young nations.. like the "state"(country!) of Israel.. But , if you want tl ook in terms of old nations.. - real nations. Then,  As tamar yonah..said the arabs are right about one thing. There are israelis.. And there are no palestinians either(they've said the latter themselves by the way too!). It's a war between jews and arabs.  As many have said, it goes back to the bible.. (arabs since islam claim descent from ishmael.. ! so they can have it that way! "yishmael is a wild man father of a wild people, his hand against everyone and everyone's hand against him".. as the bible says,  amazingly accurate.  Arabs can't then be canaanites though!)


Lebanese:  Why do you call yourself lebanese?

Lebanon is a young country..  largely considered an arab country..
There is no lebanese people! Was it you that said here that Lebanese christians were there even before jesus?  You still have the aramaic language.. which I guess you use for religious purposes? Why don't you call yourselves by a more ancient name?
Even if you say lebanese.. You should identifying with your original ancient people.. and really recognize that your land is occupied!

[Muck DeFuslims]

Zelhar is correct. Lebanon is an artificial country that was created by the French colonialists.

This is a very important fact to consider when dealing with Arab propagandists, and should be hammered home at every available opportunity.

Just about every Arab nation is an artificial creation !

How often do we hear the argument that Israel is an artificial creation of Western colonialists ?

The truth is Israel is one of the very few legitimate nation/states in the region, with a proven history that dates back thousands of years.

Yet the Arab propaganda machine has somehow duped the world into believing that it is the ancient 'Palestinians' and multitude of faux Arab nations that are legitimate and that Israel is a recent phenomena of Jewish nationalism and Western imperialism.

Orwell is spinning in his grave !

Lebanon ?  Artificial. (Interestingly, created by France as a haven for Christian Arabs who wished to flee Muslim oppression)

Iraq ?  Artificial.  (The only legitimate part of Iraq is Mesopotamia, which literally means 'between rivers', in this case the Tigris and Euphrates--The rest is an artificial creation)

Saudi Arabia ?  Artificial.

United Arab Emirates ?  Artificial.

Kuwait ?  Artificial.

Dubai ?  Artificial.

Jordan ?  Artificial.

The list goes on and on. Almost without exception every single Arab rathole nation is an artificial creation dating back to the dissolution of the Turkish empire, post WWI.

The truth is, left to their own devices - the Arabs do not establish nations. Their societies are ruled by clans. The concept of a nation, of a people bound together under a common central government or a republic with defined borders, is foreign to the nomadic, clannish Arab mind.

To this day, even in the most cohesive Arab nations, segmented/stratified clan rule is the norm - and loyalty to the greater nation, a rare exception.

And these primitive Arabian savages have the audacity to deny Israel's legitimacy? It boggles the mind.   

[q_q_]

Zelhar is correct. Lebanon is an artificial country that was created by the French colonialists.

This is a very important fact to consider when dealing with Arab propagandists, and should be hammered home at every available opportunity.

Just about every Arab nation is an artificial creation !

How often do we hear the argument that Israel is an artificial creation of Western colonialists ?

The truth is Israel is one of the very few legitimate nation/states in the region, with a proven history that dates back thousands of years. <snip>

good list, and interesting that saudi arabia is artificial..

thing is though.. pointing out that lebanon, iraq, jordan.. and many others, are just countries set up by western colonialists too..

it doesn't really answer their propaganda that jews stole their land.

You need to use the documentation brought by Joan Peters, in "from time immemorial".  It shows that jews didn't come as colonialists. Besides some original jewish inhabitants. Jews immigrated as arabs did.

her book (which is dry and boring), apparently hasn't been refuted..
people have tried to.  Arabs haven't managed to get anywhere with it.. But some self-hating jews have tried.. Apparently they criticise use of the turkish census she used, saying many non-jews didn't vote. But that's about it.
She has it that at the census pre 1948.. Looking at cis-jordan (the general area that became israel), there were 50k jews and 50k "arabs" christians and muslims - some more jews actually. And she shows documentation of the massive arab immigration..(hundreds of thousands I think) and british restricted jewish immigration to 70,000.

[Zelhar]

Thanks IsraelForever and republicandox This signature picture was heavily circulating in emails in Israel during the war. Feel free to use it anyway you see feet.

Now back to the subject: Jordan was not saved from the fakenstinians, it has a solid majority of 60-70% 'palestinians' (of course the only difference between them and the 'Jordanian' Arabs is semantic). The only thing that had been temporarily saved is the minority dictatorship, the kind that any Arab country has. The war between Hussein and the PLO amounts to a civil war.

[q_q_]

Thanks IsraelForever and republicandox This signature picture was heavily circulating in emails in Israel during the war. Feel free to use it anyway you see feet.

Now back to the subject: Jordan was not saved from the fakenstinians, it has a solid majority of 60-70% 'palestinians' (of course the only difference between them and the 'Jordanian' Arabs is semantic). The only thing that had been temporarily saved is the minority dictatorship, the kind that any Arab country has. The war between Hussein and the PLO amounts to a civil war.

besides the technical point that jordanians are "palestinians" because jordan is/was a "palestinian state" - it was created in mandatory palestine.

are you saying that the majourity of jordan are "palestinian" refugees?
Meaning, the majourity of jordanians are those arabs that  were offered citizenship in 1960, and their descendents.
(palestinians were offered citizenship in jordan in 1960. But the ones in the west bank are not really refugees..and in 1967 jordan lost the west bank)

are all "west bankers" jordanian citizens?  Of course, the west bank isn't owned by jordan anymore..   so they don't affect the number of "palestinians" in jordan. I guess it's a jordanian "diaspora"!

[Zelhar]

Thanks IsraelForever and republicandox This signature picture was heavily circulating in emails in Israel during the war. Feel free to use it anyway you see feet.

Now back to the subject: Jordan was not saved from the fakenstinians, it has a solid majority of 60-70% 'palestinians' (of course the only difference between them and the 'Jordanian' Arabs is semantic). The only thing that had been temporarily saved is the minority dictatorship, the kind that any Arab country has. The war between Hussein and the PLO amounts to a civil war.

besides the technical point that jordanians are "palestinians" because jordan is/was a "palestinian state" - it was created in mandatory palestine.

are you saying that the majourity of jordan are "palestinian" refugees?
Meaning, the majourity of jordanians are those arabs that  were offered citizenship in 1960, and their descendents.
(palestinians were offered citizenship in jordan in 1960. But the ones in the west bank are not really refugees..and in 1967 jordan lost the west bank)

are all "west bankers" jordanian citizens?  Of course, the west bank isn't owned by jordan anymore..   so they don't affect the number of "palestinians" in jordan. I guess it's a jordanian "diaspora"!

Most Jordanians citizens are "Palestinians" by definition (descendant of Arabs that lived west of the Jordan river during the British mandate). Between 1949-1967 all "west bankers" were Jordanian citizens. After 1967 they were able to freely enter and exit Jordan, both Israel and Jordan had allowed this, I think until 1987 when Jordan officially relinquished its claim for Judea and Samaria.

According to the not so reliable wikipedia:

Jordan has a law that states that any Palestinian may immigrate and obtain Jordanian citizenship, but must remit his/her Palestinian claim. Palestinians are not allowed to purchase land unless they give up their Palestinian citizenship.

It is true that Jordan is the only Arab state to allow citizenship to large numbers of fakenstinians. Of course it is because it has been from the beginning a fakenstinian state. King Abduallah had intended to name his British-given kingdom "Palesine" but the Brits refused and they forced the name 'Transjordan'. The name was changed to 'Jordan' in 1949 following the conquest and annexation of Judea and Samaria.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Zelhar I dont know what.. I was simply not talking to you.. I am just addressing the post to people who are more civilized than you. Mainly qq..

Don't put your nose, fanatic stupid....

*sniff sniff*

I smell something fishy here. Are you a fictitious username created by q_q?