Author Topic: My thanksgiving Dinner  (Read 1970 times)

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Offline Secularbeliever

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My thanksgiving Dinner
« on: November 26, 2010, 11:35:17 AM »
I went to Thanksgiving dinner yesterday at a home of someone who is not Jewish.  One of the other guests was an Israeli woman (who lives in the USA) and her husband.  I have known her for years but yesterday was the first time we discussed politics.  She is left wing, secular and Sephardic.  She said Israel is full of right wingers now (if only it were true).  I asked who these right wingers were, did she mean  Bibi.  She said yes, I pointed out that he does not govern as a right winger.

From there we discussed the IDF, with me being in the strange position of being their defenders.  She told me about her Army life, that after 3 days she freaked out and called home to ask her father to get her a psychiatric deferment (she described the horrors, none of which seemed so bad).  Her father had influence so it was worked out that she got easy treatment in basic training and spent the rest of her army career making movies for the Army.  She complained that the army was turning people into killers.  I noted that Armies were meant for that purpose.  She started talking about peace.  I told her about my cousin who was in Auschwicz and that if armies were necessary to stop those type of things from happening it was worth it.  She said we needed an alternative to killing.  I said that if someone is trying to kill us, it makes sense to kill them first.  She smiled and walked away.  You would think I had just urinated on the living room carpet in public.  She told me she had relayed our conversation to her husband (he had tried out for and been rejected by the IAF as a pilot) and he was shocked.

She still hugged me and said a pleasant goodbye when she left but I have to admit getting a liberal upset always feels good.
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Offline Lisa

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Re: My thanksgiving Dinner
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2010, 11:44:22 AM »
Good for you!

Offline muman613

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Re: My thanksgiving Dinner
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2010, 12:12:34 PM »
Why did you waste time with these losers?

I would have walked the hell away from them and told them to go join the enemy.

Liberal Leftists are some of the worst people to talk to. They will try to poison your mind and turn you away from the truth. It is better to spend the day alone and hungry than to spend the day with evil people like those you describe.

Why did you allow that beast to hug you? I would have thankfully declined.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Secularbeliever

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Re: My thanksgiving Dinner
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2010, 01:56:58 PM »
Why did you waste time with these losers?

I would have walked the hell away from them and told them to go join the enemy.

Liberal Leftists are some of the worst people to talk to. They will try to poison your mind and turn you away from the truth. It is better to spend the day alone and hungry than to spend the day with evil people like those you describe.

Why did you allow that beast to hug you? I would have thankfully declined.



Most of my family, who are generally good people, are liberals.  If I refused to talk to liberals I would have to disown most of my family and many friends.  I have known this woman for years.  Actually she later told me she was sorry that my cousin had suffered in Auschwicz.  I told her not to be sorry for him, he got to live another sixty years after that.  Six million Jews were much less fortunate.  In any case I don't refuse to asssociate with people who disagree with me. 

Oddly she did not deny the nature of the problem or Israel's tenuous position.  She went on about Hizballah in Lebanon, Syria, Hamas the internal Arabs etc.  She just came to the ridiculous conclusion that some kind of better attitude would make these problems better.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2010, 02:04:35 PM by Secularbeliever »
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Offline muman613

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Re: My thanksgiving Dinner
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2010, 02:03:56 PM »
Why did you waste time with these losers?

I would have walked the hell away from them and told them to go join the enemy.

Liberal Leftists are some of the worst people to talk to. They will try to poison your mind and turn you away from the truth. It is better to spend the day alone and hungry than to spend the day with evil people like those you describe.

Why did you allow that beast to hug you? I would have thankfully declined.



Most of my family, who are generally good people, are liberals.  If I refused to talk to liberals I would have to disown most of my family and many friends.  I have known this woman for years.  Actually she later told me she was sorry that my cousin had suffered in Auschwicz.  I told her not to be sorry for him, he got to live another sixty years after that.  Six million Jews were much less fortunate.  In any case I don't refuse to asssociate with people who disagree with me. 

Oddly she did not deny the nature of the problem or Israel's tenuous position.  She went on about Hizballah in Lebanon, Syria, Hamas the internal Arabs etc.  She just came to the ridiculous conclusion that some kind of better attitude would make thses problems better.

I am sorry. I do not ask you to cut off your family... I too had that sort of problem... Luckily my father has always been a right-winger, both in American politics and in Israeli. But my mother on the other hand, she has been a life-long liberal Democrat.... Oy Vey!

And she grew up in the company of your living-and-breathing liberal Jewish community. But due to circumstances beyond our control she has now renounced her liberal democrat life and she has shifted to the right. Now I can talk with my mother and we agree on virtually everying.

You know what?

What woke my family up was losing my brother on 9/11. After 9/11 I did teshuva and found my Jewish faith. My mother did not do this, but she woke up to the nature of the ongoing battle between Islam and the west.

We must work with our families to make them understand what the reality of the situation is. Your friend is a pacifist and we know what pacifism brings, death. Do not push friends away if there is a possibility that you can affect them to understand that the only way to win is to fight, and that there is a battle going on.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Secularbeliever

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Re: My thanksgiving Dinner
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2010, 02:09:12 PM »
What woke my family up was losing my brother on 9/11. After 9/11 I did teshuva and found my Jewish faith. My mother did not do this, but she woke up to the nature of the ongoing battle between Islam and the west.

We must work with our families to make them understand what the reality of the situation is. Your friend is a pacifist and we know what pacifism brings, death. Do not push friends away if there is a possibility that you can affect them to understand that the only way to win is to fight, and that there is a battle going on.<<

I am truly sorry for your loss of your brother.  Luckily nobody I was close to died that day, although I once worked on the 82nd floor or the WTC which is just about where the plane hit.  I agree with you that it is best to keep the lines of communication open.  You never know when people might come to their senses.  Who knows maybe the things I said will resonate with her later.
We all need to pray for Barack Obama, may the Lord provide him a safe move back to Chicago in January 2,013.

Offline muman613

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Re: My thanksgiving Dinner
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2010, 02:19:56 PM »
What woke my family up was losing my brother on 9/11. After 9/11 I did teshuva and found my Jewish faith. My mother did not do this, but she woke up to the nature of the ongoing battle between Islam and the west.

We must work with our families to make them understand what the reality of the situation is. Your friend is a pacifist and we know what pacifism brings, death. Do not push friends away if there is a possibility that you can affect them to understand that the only way to win is to fight, and that there is a battle going on.<<

I am truly sorry for your loss of your brother.  Luckily nobody I was close to died that day, although I once worked on the 82nd floor or the WTC which is just about where the plane hit.  I agree with you that it is best to keep the lines of communication open.  You never know when people might come to their senses.  Who knows maybe the things I said will resonate with her later.


Thank you... And I lost my father earlier this year... Baruch Hashem we were very close in the last few years of his life. For the longest time we disagreed on everything... For about 15 years I was a deadhead hippie in Los Angeles and my father and I did not get along... After 2001 when I shifted back to the right my father and I agreed on everything. He told me how proud he was of me of my religious convictions {growing my side-locks, wearing tzit-tzits and kippah, davening, and keeping mitzvot}. He apologized to me for things that happened 30 years ago... It is very important to keep your family and try to make it work no matter what their politics is...

This is one of the commandments... To honor your mother and father.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: My thanksgiving Dinner
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2010, 02:22:54 PM »
GOOD SHABBAT!
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: My thanksgiving Dinner
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2010, 07:38:21 PM »
These people are the enemy, not Lewinsky or Sharon or Olmert.

Offline Meerkat

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Re: My thanksgiving Dinner
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2010, 07:57:29 PM »
my grabdparents are super right-wing and that didn't stop me from talking to them when i was a shalom achshavnik type, and look, turns out they were right all along and B"H im no longer a traitor.

simple leftists who are a part of the masses are not the problem, the people that influence them are.

Offline Secularbeliever

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Re: My thanksgiving Dinner
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2010, 10:31:07 PM »
I had a discussion with my Orthodox Israeli nationalist friend.  He opined that some liberals are naive while others are evil.  This woman is in the naive camp.  At the same time as we were having this disciussion she was trying to talk my son into going on a Birthright trip to Israel even offering to be there then to show him around.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2010, 08:26:32 AM by Secularbeliever »
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Offline Meerkat

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Re: My thanksgiving Dinner
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2010, 10:35:44 PM »
I had a discussion with my Orthodox Israeli nationalist friend.  He opined that some lectures are naive while others are evil.  This woman is in the naive camp.  At the same time as we were having this disciussion she was trying to talk my son into going on a Birthright trip to Israel even offering to be there then to show him around.

so its a matrix type thing? everyones an enemy until he is awakened? some are just naive, others are agents?

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: My thanksgiving Dinner
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2010, 10:53:01 PM »
my grabdparents are super right-wing and that didn't stop me from talking to them when i was a shalom achshavnik type, and look, turns out they were right all along and B"H im no longer a traitor.

simple leftists who are a part of the masses are not the problem, the people that influence them are.

I agree with you, DBF has it backwards.   It's bibi, sharon, the media, the supreme court, the justice apparatus, the police, the IDF and all the people participating in the brainwashing of society.   It's not the fault of the victims.

Offline muman613

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Re: My thanksgiving Dinner
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2010, 10:53:26 PM »
I had a discussion with my Orthodox Israeli nationalist friend.  He opined that some lectures are naive while others are evil.  This woman is in the naive camp.  At the same time as we were having this disciussion she was trying to talk my son into going on a Birthright trip to Israel even offering to be there then to show him around.

so its a matrix type thing? everyones an enemy until he is awakened? some are just naive, others are agents?

In a word.... Yes...

This world is comparable to the matrix world...

Look at these pages:

http://international.aish.com/seminars/matrix/default.asp

http://www.innernet.org.il/article.php?aid=497


Quote
"I can only show you the door, you're the one that has to walk through it.

Morpheus: "Do you believe in fate, Neo?"

Neo: "No."

Morpheus: "Why not?"

Neo: "Because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life"

Morpheus: "I know exactly what you mean."

Have you ever felt that something was destined to happened? Do you think you're in full control?

There are no coincidences, no random events, no casual happenings. Every event of your life is exactly what you need, part of your personalized program to complete your life's mission.

Principle:
The only thing we control is our choice, and what we choose creates our world.
   

The tapestry of world  history is unrolling, all according to plan, yet you have complete freedom to choose how to react. There are events that will happen. History has a destiny. Your life has a destiny. But it's up to you to decide if you will embrace it, or watch from a back row seat.

If you seize the moment, you will find that unique role waiting for you.

Ancient tradition teaches: The entire world was created for you. All the world's a stage and you are in the starring role. Except it's not a movie. It's real.

Here you are placed in your own custom-designed world. It is filled with everything you need to bring yourself to perfection, and that will in turn pull the entire universe into alignment.

You are the one. There are lots of "extras" on the set so you don't get into too much of an ego trip. Lots of situations to push you to the limit and bring out your full spectrum of qualities.

Morpheus: There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.

The 120 years allotted to you on this planet are precious. At the moment of birth, you were given the gift of forgetfulness so you could learn anew with interest and wonder. You had to learn to walk, to speak, to think and to question. And now you stand poised at the edge, awake at last, asking the right questions, driven by the very core of your soul.

Remember: There are no coincidences. Tap into your destiny and make it happen. The Ultimate Choreographer has set it up perfectly so that it is all for me too,
and for him...
and for her...
and for...
billions of interacting unique beings.

Take good care of your world!
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Rubystars

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Re: My thanksgiving Dinner
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2010, 11:48:29 PM »
Quote
She complained that the army was turning people into killers.  I noted that Armies were meant for that purpose.

 :::D Great

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: My thanksgiving Dinner
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2010, 12:21:23 AM »
Quote
She complained that the army was turning people into killers.  I noted that Armies were meant for that purpose.

 :::D Great

 ;D