Author Topic: <removed useless post>  (Read 2043 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
<removed useless post>
« on: February 25, 2013, 06:56:07 PM »
<removed useless post>
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 04:11:14 PM by 112 »
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Was Rabbi Kahane's loss G-d's will?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2013, 07:02:46 PM »
Somethings here have got me thinking again. Was is G-d's will that the Rabbi loose, because he wouldn't advocate killing the enemy, that surely advocated the same? If they left, they would join the armies of our enemies without a shadow of a doubt, and come back to kill us. Maybe G-d knows that there will be more death if that happened. Maybe the only way he can get us to do his will is if they do take Jerusalem, rape the women, and rule over Israel as you would expect any muslim to, in order for us to see that we are not more righteous than him.


Now you are getting into questions which we mortal men cannot answer. Hashems ways are his ways, and a mortal cannot begin to comprehend the big picture. On one level of faith we must believe that the Rabbi was taken from us for a reason. In order to maintain perfect faith we must realize that nothing happens in the world without the consent of the one who created it. Judaism has no dualism, no G-d of Good versus G-d of Bad... Because Hashem grants all his human creations with free will the events which unfold are a combination of our will and Hashems will. Humans are responsible for their actions, and are punished when they do things which run counter to the will of Hashem. But Hashem allows evil to exist, and how we react to the evil is what we are judged by.

Over Purim I brought up several questions about 'the big picture' versus our limited view of reality. As a result of 9/11 (and my brothers death in that horrible event) both my faith and my mothers faith were indelibly altered. My faith was strengthened, my mothers was weakened. Same too with those who survived the Holocaust.... Many had a lot of anger at Hashem, questioning his mastery of the world events. Others who survived somehow saw divine providence in what happened.

But we cannot play Monday Morning Quarterback on the events which occurred. Rabbi Kahane (may his blood be avenged) may have accomplished his goal in this world and Hashem wanted him in the world of souls. But we cannot just simply say that whatever happened was supposed to happen, we must react to it in a way which corresponds to the command 'DO NOT SIT IDLE AS YOUR BROTHERS BLOOD IS SPILLED'.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Was Rabbi Kahane's loss G-d's will?
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2013, 07:06:16 PM »
http://www.aish.com/sp/k/Kabbala_17_History_of_Kabbala_Part_1.html

He [Moses] then said: "Please grant me a vision of your glory."

He [God] said, "I will take all My goodness, and pass it in front of you, and I will call out the name of the Lord before you; I will be gracious unto the one to whom I shall be gracious, and I will be merciful unto the one to whom I will merciful." And He [God] said: "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live." And the Lord said: "There is a place next to me and you can stand upon the rock. And as My glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft of the rocks, and I will put My palm upon it until I pass by. I will then remove My palm, and you will perceive My back; but My face will not be seen." (Exodus 33:18-22)


As mysterious and unclear as this dialogue is, there are a few very important points that can be derived from it.

Bear in mind that this dialogue had taken place very soon after the giving of the Torah. Moses had been given the Torah in its entirety, and there was none left over. (See Maimonides, "The Foundations of the Torah" 9:1.) So what more did Moses want from God?

The answer is that he was pleading for a depth of understanding of the revelation he had already received, not for a new Torah. We see from his request that there is an understanding of Torah that is held from us, and that having Torah in its entire breadth which Moses had received at Sinai, is no guarantee of comprehending this deeper understanding.

We see from God's reply that the nature of this deep understanding is not about God Himself, but, rather, about God's interaction with our world.

Our Sages have explained that Moses' request was the ultimate understanding of "why the righteous suffer and the wicked prosper." This is readily seen in God's reply about "being merciful to those to whom I will be merciful." How God rules the world -- His ways and mores -- are the substance of this deep knowledge that Moses seeks.

God placed limits on the level of comprehension that one can have. Some people (used to special effects of Hollywood movies) imagine that "no man can see God and live" is because of the blinding light and booming sound! There is no such thing as a physical awareness of God. Rather, our Sages explain that the correct interpretation of this verse is that "no man can fully comprehend God while alive." A person –- no matter how refined -– is still physical, and his understanding is somewhat physical. This prevents him from understanding those things that are to some degree totally metaphysical.

And this is what is meant by "and you shall see My back." Just as when I view a person face to face I get a full sense of what he is saying and doing, so too seeing God "face to face" means comprehending God's ways with absolute clarity. Man cannot do this. We can only see God's from His back -- which means we can have an idea about what He's doing, but not absolute clarity.

These understandings are included in "the name of the Lord." Thus, God describes these revelations as "calling out before Him the name of the Lord."

Indeed, the various names of God that forms the heart of Kabbalah are not some mysterious deep-throated unpronounceable words that cause cosmic upheavals. Rather, they are descriptions of certain facets of God's interaction with man.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Was Rabbi Kahane's loss G-d's will?
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2013, 07:11:43 PM »
The story of Job is a work which addresses some of the questions brought up in your inquiry. Concerning why Hashem does one thing instead of the other, why the righteous suffer and the wicked prosper...



http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et2740.htm

Chapter 40
1 {S} Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said:
2 Shall he that reproveth contend with the Almighty? He that argueth with God, let him answer it. {P}

3 {S} Then Job answered the LORD, and said:
4 Behold, I am of small account; what shall I answer Thee? I lay my hand upon my mouth.
5 Once have I spoken, but I will not answer again; yea, twice, but I will proceed no further. {P}

6 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:
7 Gird up thy loins now like a man; I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto Me.
8 Wilt thou even make void My judgment? Wilt thou condemn Me, that thou mayest be justified?
9 Or hast thou an arm like God? And canst thou thunder with a voice like Him?
10 Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency, and array thyself with glory and beauty.
11 Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath; and look upon every one that is proud, and abase him.
12 Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place.
13 Hide them in the dust together; bind their faces in the hidden place.
14 Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.
15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the stays of his body.
17 He straineth his tail like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are knit together.
18 His bones are as pipes of brass; his gristles are like bars of iron.
19 He is the beginning of the ways of God; He only that made him can make His sword to approach unto him.
20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, and all the beasts of the field play there.
21 He lieth under the lotus-trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 The lotus-trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23 Behold, if a river overflow, he trembleth not; he is confident, though the Jordan rush forth to his mouth.
24 Shall any take him by his eyes, or pierce through his nose with a snare?
25 Canst thou draw out leviathan with a fish-hook? or press down his tongue with a cord?
26 Canst thou put a ring into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a hook?
27 Will he make many supplications unto thee? or will he speak soft words unto thee?
28 Will he make a covenant with thee, that thou shouldest take him for a servant for ever?
29 Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? Or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?
30 Will the bands of fishermen make a banquet of him? Will they part him among the merchants?
31 Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish-spears?
32 Lay thy hand upon him; think upon the battle, thou wilt do so no more.

Chapter 41
1 Behold, the hope of him is in vain; shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?
2 None is so fierce that dare stir him up; who then is able to stand before Me?
3 Who hath given Me anything beforehand, that I should repay him? Whatsoever is under the whole heaven is Mine.
4 Would I keep silence concerning his boastings, or his proud talk, or his fair array of words?
5 Who can uncover the face of his garment? Who shall come within his double bridle?
6 Who can open the doors of his face? Round about his teeth is terror.
7 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
8 One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.
9 They are joined one to another; they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.
10 His sneezings flash forth light, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
11 Out of his mouth go burning torches, and sparks of fire leap forth.
12 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot and burning rushes.
13 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.
14 In his neck abideth strength, and dismay danceth before him.
15 The flakes of his flesh are joined together; they are firm upon him; they cannot be moved.
16 His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, firm as the nether millstone.
17 When he raiseth himself up, the mighty are afraid; by reason of despair they are beside themselves.
18 If one lay at him with the sword, it will not hold; nor the spear, the dart, nor the pointed shaft.
19 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.
20 The arrow cannot make him flee; slingstones are turned with him into stubble.
21 Clubs are accounted as stubble; he laugheth at the rattling of the javelin.
22 Sharpest potsherds are under him; he spreadeth a threshing-sledge upon the mire.
23 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot; he maketh the sea like a seething mixture.
24 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.
25 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made to be fearless.
26 He looketh at all high things; he is king over all the proud beasts. {P}
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Was Rabbi Kahane's loss G-d's will?
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2013, 07:37:28 PM »
Yes, indeed we try to keep his will as expressed to us in the Torah. But my point is that we can never really comprehend 'why' things happen like they do...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Was Rabbi Kahane's loss G-d's will?
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2013, 08:09:39 PM »
Yes, I do believe that we can. It is made explicit that no mercy should be given to the enemies of Israel, because they will rise and wipe us out. I believe this act of mercy, expelling them, would have done what the bible said it would, and rabbi Kahane WAS going to win and WOULD HAVE done it, and therefore, this could have been an act of mercy on the part of G-d, because better that we suffer for a few days and then be done with it, then allow them to stick around forever and see a millennium of being surrounded by them, and have to live with their evil.

Ok, I think I see where you are going with this...

But again it is impossible to say with certainty that this, or that, happened because G-d wanted it to happen this way. As we learn from the Purim story things can change (regarding the 'decree') at the drop of a dime...
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5457
Re: Was Rabbi Kahane's loss G-d's will?
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2013, 08:24:46 PM »
My kaballah reading have taught me that in order to fulfill my ultimate purpose, I must see G-d's will in everything.


  :::D  What is that like some new voodoo crystal ball or something?

 But in all seriousness we need to stop with the type of thinking and trying to figure out G-D's thoughts and plans etc. We need to do our part. That is all.

Isaiah Chapter 55 יְשַׁעְיָהוּ

ח  כִּי לֹא מַחְשְׁבוֹתַי מַחְשְׁבוֹתֵיכֶם, וְלֹא דַרְכֵיכֶם דְּרָכָי--נְאֻם, יְהוָה.   8

For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, saith the LORD.
ט  כִּי-גָבְהוּ שָׁמַיִם, מֵאָרֶץ--כֵּן גָּבְהוּ דְרָכַי מִדַּרְכֵיכֶם, וּמַחְשְׁבֹתַי מִמַּחְשְׁבֹתֵיכֶם.   9

 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Was Rabbi Kahane's loss G-d's will?
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2013, 10:31:27 PM »
Somethings here have got me thinking again. Was is G-d's will that the Rabbi loose, because he wouldn't advocate killing the enemy, that surely advocated the same? If they left, they would join the armies of our enemies without a shadow of a doubt, and come back to kill us. Maybe G-d knows that there will be more death if that happened. Maybe the only way he can get us to do his will is if they do take Jerusalem, rape the women, and rule over Israel as you would expect any muslim to, in order for us to see that we are not more righteous than him.

Lunacy

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Was Rabbi Kahane's loss G-d's will?
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2013, 12:10:46 AM »
Was Joshua wrong to say that the inhabitants of the land of Israel should be wiped out? Neither of us believe so, I'm sure (unless it wasn't Joshua who stopped his army in the middle of the Jordan, and I'm mistaken). The reasoning was not to let them escape, leave none alive, or they will come back to attack. They do attack now, but maybe their all-out rage is pacified, as really, only daily rocket attacks seems the least muslims could do.

If they were allowed to leave the land of Israel, and they grew strong, it doesn't matter how much time has passed, they will attack. I think that G-d wants them wiped out now, like he did then, and that doing so will hasten the coming of the moshiah.

After a year, the world will hate us, but in a thousand years, don't you think the world will bless us for having taken that society out of the world? What if they apply as refugees, and move to places in the West and crush it further? Them not being is Israel is good, and the Rabbi was absolutely correct on that, but them taking over America and the west will harm so many, it's unimaginable, and then those countries will turn against Israel, and further destroy the peoples there. You have to consider the implications of what happens if they were allowed to leave. In the short term, it looks great to kick them out, but if you consider the course of history, how much damage would sending a terrorist nation around the world do to it, ourselves, and others? I believe that is unacceptably too much, and there can be only one way to deal with the Amalekites living in and dedicated to destroying the land of Israel, righteously. Forget what I said about rabbi Kahane, Muman is right that I couldn't possibly know for sure since my ways are infinity inferior to Hashem's but the principle remains.

Rabbi Kahane argued that kicking them out was halacha. I don't think it was, and that he didn't say that because he thought he wouldn't be accepted for it.

Nothing you say makes sense.

There are already millions of Arabs living around (outside of) Israel for 70 years.   A few expellees from Israel is a drop in the bucket and doesn't change a thing.   All those millions of arabs are already trying to exterminate Israel.  They will not stop trying, whether you create a fake-arab state, or whether you blow yourself up.   Just let go of this dream already that arabs will stop trying to wipe out Jews.     There is only one choice that we have:  Strengthen our enemies?  Or Weaken our enemies?        Throwing the arabs out weakens them.   Period.

You are an ignoramus about what is halacha and what is not.   Rabbi Kahane knew what he was talking about.

By your logic, every single Israeli politician would have been murdered by arab terrorists already because they are as far removed from halacha as they can possibly get.    And you who say "those who advocate what is "not halacha" get killed" do not make any consistent logical sense by claiming that only Rabbi Kahane would have been killed but not the Oslo proponents.    Your argument is worthless.

Offline Yerusha

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1365
Re: Was Rabbi Kahane's loss G-d's will?
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2013, 05:00:45 AM »
"Der Toirah fun Kahane iz richtig: ober es iz nisht far yetzt!" - "The Torah of Kahane is correct: but it's not for now!" (Lubavitcher Rebbe 1988)

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12593
Re: Was Rabbi Kahane's loss G-d's will?
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2013, 06:41:44 AM »
With my eyes closed holding my breath and ears covered, the answer to your question is "yes". Everything is Gd's will and was already willed from the moment before after and during He said,bereisheet".

It is painful on two fronts. kahane was a gem ahead of his time like other unpopular hated prophets.

Secondly it is painful for my brain to imagine Gd willed things to occur before, after, and during the creation of the universe and at the same time gave us free will yet He only knows the decisions we will make out of that free will. That's why time travel is impossible.

Just sayin
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Yerusha

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1365
Re: Was Rabbi Kahane's loss G-d's will?
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2013, 07:45:35 AM »
It is known that the death of a Tzaddik can atone for all of Am Yisrael.

In September 1990 Rav Kahane wrote in the Jewish Press that Saddam's invasion of Kuwait was going to lead to the War of Gog and Magog, an apocalyptic war in which most of humanity and a large % of Jews will perish.

In lieu of this war, I believe that Hashem took out Rav Kahane in November 1990 as a kapparah, resulting in a January 1991 war in which only 1 Jew was killed, and thereby putting Gog and Magog and the end of the world as we know it on temporary hold.

In compensation for his being a kapparah and having died at 58, Rav Kahane is right now in the front rank of Olam Haba bathing in the Shechina together with all the other martyred Tzaddikim: the Maccabees, King Shaul, Yonatan, King Yoshiah, Trumpeldor, the Warsaw Ghetto fighters, Yoni Netanyahu, Goldstein, BZK etc etc
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 07:55:36 AM by Yerusha »

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5457
Re: Was Rabbi Kahane's loss G-d's will?
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2013, 07:26:49 PM »
112- Yoshuah was a Prophet and he was following G-D's Misswoth. And I agree these types of talk is utter lunacy and does more harm then good. Learn Halacha and (real) Jewish values.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Was Rabbi Kahane's loss G-d's will?
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2013, 07:37:16 PM »
It is known that the death of a Tzaddik can atone for all of Am Yisrael.

In September 1990 Rav Kahane wrote in the Jewish Press that Saddam's invasion of Kuwait was going to lead to the War of Gog and Magog, an apocalyptic war in which most of humanity and a large % of Jews will perish.

In lieu of this war, I believe that Hashem took out Rav Kahane in November 1990 as a kapparah, resulting in a January 1991 war in which only 1 Jew was killed, and thereby putting Gog and Magog and the end of the world as we know it on temporary hold.

In compensation for his being a kapparah and having died at 58, Rav Kahane is right now in the front rank of Olam Haba bathing in the Shechina together with all the other martyred Tzaddikim: the Maccabees, King Shaul, Yonatan, King Yoshiah, Trumpeldor, the Warsaw Ghetto fighters, Yoni Netanyahu, Goldstein, BZK etc etc

There may be some truth to this... But then how do we interpret Gemara Kiddushin 72b? The basic concept of 'death of a tzadik is a kapporah for Israel' comes from Talmud Moed Katan 28a...

http://halakhah.com/pdf/moed/Moed_Katan.pdf

Quote

Said R. Ammi, Wherefore is the account of Miriam's death4 placed next to the [laws of the] red heifer?5 To inform you that even as the red heifer afforded atonement [by the ritual use of its ashes], so does the death of the righteous afford atonement [for the living they have left behind].

 R. Eleazar said, Wherefore is [the account of] Aaron's death closely followed by [the account of the disposal of] the priestly vestments?6  [To inform you] that just as the priest's vestments were [means] to effect atonement,7 so is the death of the righteous [conducive to procuring] atonement.

But Talmud Kiddushin 72b states that when a tzadik passes Hashem makes sure another tzadik has been born to replace him...

http://halakhah.com/pdf/nashim/Kiddushin.pdf

Quote
to-day he sits in Abraham's lap;1 to-day Rab Judah was born in Babylon.’ (For a Master said: When R. Akiba died, Rabbi was born; when Rabbi died, Rab Judah was born; when Rab Judah died, Raba was born; when2  Raba died, R. Ashi was born.3 This teaches that a righteous man does not depart from the world until [another] righteous man like himself is created, as it is said, the sun riseth and the sun goeth down:4  before Eli's sun was extinguished, the sun of Samuel of Ramoth rose, as it is said, and the lamp of God was not yet gone out, and Samuel was laid down [etc.].)5
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Was Rabbi Kahane's loss G-d's will?
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2013, 09:58:06 PM »
"Der Toirah fun Kahane iz richtig: ober es iz nisht far yetzt!" - "The Torah of Kahane is correct: but it's not for now!" (Lubavitcher Rebbe 1988)

The Lubavitcher Rebbe does not decide what world Jewry adopts or does not adopt.   Sorry.    He expressed a political opinion but it is couched in ontological terms which do not even make sense!

To a rational, thinking human being, the translation of his statement is:   "I agree in theory with Rabbi Kahane's ideas, but I do not want them implemented right now (or, alternatively, I do not feel they can possibly be practically implemented right now)."   Rabbi Kahane respectfully disagreed with that viewpoint.  He was right, and Lubavitcher Rebbe was wrong.   The opposition to Kahane's ideas produced the Oslo disaster.

And you are disgraceful.

Offline Debbie Shafer

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4317
Re: Was Rabbi Kahane's loss G-d's will?
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2013, 09:59:57 AM »
Please keep your faith and maintain God's will.  Tough times are coming..Inevitably, the God of Israel, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will show the world what he thinks of Israel's enemies.

Offline Yerusha

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1365
Re: Was Rabbi Kahane's loss G-d's will?
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2013, 11:11:18 AM »
"The Tzaddik dies and no one ponders it in his heart; the pious man is taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from the evil that is to come" (Yeshaya 57)

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5457
Re: Was Rabbi Kahane's loss G-d's will?
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2013, 12:23:21 PM »
I'd love to. Why is kicking them out halacha and not destroying them?


  Halacha and the application of it is not just "on the books" soo to speak. Rav Kahane understood the situation and the proper things needed to be said and done. Besides they are first given options. 1) Make Peace (under OUR terms). 2) Leave or 3) fight and die.
  He got kicked out for saying they need to leave (by the way he did say all 3 options as well, in first saying that those who aren't loyal need to be transferred). (That's 1 +2) then you think if he had power and then those who stay and fight he would have left standing? Get real.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.