truth about ISLAM

[kippeveer]

Hitler was NOT a christian, he actually said that christianity should die a natural death.
But the roman catholic church did back him up.

[pinoyjew]

r u retard?this is the site for factual information and not for hearsay and own opinion...

[Chughtai]

Well who might not resort to self defense if threatened for his life or for the lives of his dear ones   Come on you guys are doing the same in Israel from those you feel threatened of. This is totally a justified action by any animal let alone Human beings. I agree to what you call disorientated from what we have actully been taught or there in Quran and muslims today try to live their lives like those did in the time of Muhammad PBUH, even I tried but figured it out that it always led to a situation 1400 years earlier. The problem lies in our societies where we have neglected the word of Allah SBWT and blindly started trusting the holly men, and again so did you guys.

The point is that we are human beings and dont differ much in attributes of our characters. Shedding blood is not pleasurable for any human being irrespective of religion, cast tribe or cult.  This hatred has got to stop before it unstables the very land beneath our feet. I see animals like myself in jews, christians, budhist, hindus, sikhs and atheists. Trying to survive and ensure the survival of their offsprings. Lets make life better for this scared creature by making room for each other. 
 

[hyperion]

The problem lies in our societies where we have neglected the word of Allah SBWT and blindly started trusting the holly men, and again so did you guys.

Unfortunately this has nothing to do with reality. Our holy men never preach against muslims, while yours DO. Most Jews who hate muslims do so because they are attacked on the streets (like I was many times) or get their houses burned down. The homes of many Jews are burned down in the Western part of the Netherlands where most muslims live, I knew people personally whose house was burned down and it was a miracle that they weren't sleeping in their houses and died. In spite of these most Jews and their Rabbis are foolish enough to protect the rights of muslims. So do not try to pretend that we are as guilty as you are. The fact that imams preach hate doesn't mean that Rabbis do the same too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsvK5Gko0eM&feature=player_embedded

Such boys roam the streets of the Netherlands.

[hyperion]

You have also mentioned that you were taught to not trust Jews. You just admitted that you were taught anti-semitic discrimination since your childhood. It isn't a separated case, because one of my childhood friends who was a muslim immigrant from Afghanistan was also thought such things. In fact he told me that his relatives always told him to hate Jews.

Meanwhile Jews just do not care about muslims, just live their lives and not preach hatred against them. I have never had any problems with muslims since I was attacked and saw what they do to other people.
In Hungary muslims are a minority and there are far more Jews. Muslims can live in peace there.
In the Netherlands muslims outnumber Jews greatly, and Jews are hunted down on the streets by them.
Can you explain that? Leave this talk that "you are equally guilty" because it isn't true.

[Chughtai]

Well Hyperion! I may not disagree to what you have said mostly. The feeling of self righteousness is  very strong. Masses are first shown a direction then they are told that whatever they are thinking is justified religiously and morally. Never have been they told to consider things on the basics of logic or rationale. What I might be saying would seem true to you for what I or muslim are in this state but please for once try to justify yourself on these grounds. I am not at all trying to blame or accuse you, I am no one to do that. Its between you and G-d. I know that you people have been mistreated over the time. There must be something wrong so harm find its way to you. There are much smaller and weaker minorities in the world and they are not bothered as you guys.

In history of Islam there are a number of times when jewish tried harming islam and our prophet and followers but I am not one of them to avenge that from you or anyone. I am not born at that time. We are taught history and somehow these sentiments develop. But for the last 2 decades people around me are more aware. They know that education is a good tool for earning living as well as mind control by a small group of people manipulating the thoughts of masses.

All said when I try to get myself neutral and try to find out the facts myself I see Jewish people doing what you are doing here. I know that you guys are angry and you have all the right to be, but my elders are taught to be angry with you willing or unwillingly. Now with all this hatred at both sides what are we achieving ?   If something positive is coming out of it then we can continue to do this. I dont care what my neighbor is doing as long as I am not disturbed with that. Most of the time I ignore it even coz he is my neighbor.

If I come here and share stories of all the bad things that my neighbor has been doing repeatedly and afew other neighbors start listening to me and quoting their experiences with that man, surly there would come a time when each one of us would want to hurt him.

I dont care what my elders thought or did, but i do care about what I would be doing in this time given to me here. I would surly try to minimize these differences. You believe your own philosophy and i would believe my own and there are enough space on this planet and the system of Allah SBWT to hold many such more.

What is right is right and whats wrong is wrong and that comes as the basic human instinct. Its hard coded and no one could change that but people have devised ways to hide that and brainwash people. Deep down we are all the same. The smell of air would be as refreshing to you as it would be to me but if one starts to disagree and likes better the smell of some fragrance in the air, should we resort to hating that person just coz he dosent think like me.

What I meant in the posts above is that "it always takes 2 to tango" sorry i couldnt come up with some other proverb as english is not my mother tongue. I saw some of you making fun of the poor guy who tried to express his feelings or to show his sympathy in whatever manner he could. You guys are no different than islamist radicals who have always gone after the words and not the thought. You didnt bother to notice the sentiments behind his words. Its shameful, we all have to change. Killing to me is not simply taking life of a person. You can kill a person by taking his identity or killing his thoughts. The poor injured guy comes here and you guys tried to finish him off. Well how would he react!! think logically. Would he ever again in his life try to put forward a hand of friendship towards you people. We mock you and you mock us by putting usama's pict on pig or different images or words I see here. In the part of the world I live in we dont even like usama. My servant who is illiterate would be the first person to hand him over to authorities if he ever sees him. It does not worries me at all to see the image but it shows the same hatred I am talking about for a whole majority of muslims that we cannot just kill but have to be made aware of the basic realities. I see you guys doing your part.   

 

[hyperion]

"What I meant in the posts above is that "it always takes 2 to tango""

Two to tango? What do you mean? They attack civilians, we attack back their military and we are as bad as them? NO Jews hurl firebombs at muslim houses both in Hungary and in the Netherlands. The man whose house was burned down actually PROTECTED the rights of muslims in spite of these attacks. Think logically and not in a biased way. The majority of Jews are against ANY discrimination, while I had many muslim friends all of whom agree with the actions against Israeli and American civilians. Our far right only wants to expel muslims and not annihilate them like Hamas, Al-Quaeda and the rest want to annihilate Jews. So do not distort the facts please.

And what about the muslims' hate of the Zionist state? I have never heard about a muslim acknowledging our right to existence.

[Chughtai]

What I saw happening in Lebanon by Israel Army was some what different from what you are saying here. You want me to be logical here ! Why would attack and burn the house of person who protect my rights!! Do I like living with less rights? Obviously not. 

I am not trying to distort any facts here I am trying to get facts. You say "I have never heard about a muslim acknowledging our right to existence." Pakistan has accepted Israel's existence and it comprises of about 160 million muslims. Now should i say that you are trying to distort the facts here!  No i wont say that, we are very far from the facts of our co-existence. Just trying to make an effort if not for many than for myself and my children to reduce these differences.

In Quran there is a whole chapter named Buni Israel. If my Allah SBWT identifies you as a nation who am I to take this right away from you.

[hyperion]

I'm talking about regular muslims there. Do regular muslims support the Zionist state or not? In my experience not. What a government does is usually not in tune with its people want. Those are strategic movements. Can you show us a muslim grassroots organization that stands up for the right of Israel and Jews? That would be convincing.

"You want me to be logical here ! Why would attack and burn the house of person who protect my rights!! Do I like living with less rights? Obviously not. "

You would do it because you are anti-semitic and discriminate and you have prejudices. Yes muslims usually discriminate Jews. When I was not attacked for my Star of David I was treated like sh*t or an animal.

"What I saw happening in Lebanon by Israel Army was some what different from what you are saying here."

Well, atrocities happen in war, but IDF does not purposefully attack civilians even if those civilians elected Hamas to kill Israeli civilians. Sometimes the boys get mad because of that and there are civilian casualties on your side too. I oppose these things. Because Torah teaches us that if you treat your fellow humans well and fulfill your obligation to G-d, you get your reward, regardless of your religion race etc. In fact Judaism is the only religion of the three Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) that recognizes believers and non-believers as equals and does not condemn people of other faith. It is a fact. Hamas, Fatah, Al Quade deliberately attack civilians. While IDF not.

And yes major Jewish organizations like the European Jewish Organization of Students and Anti-Defamation League actually campaigns FOR the Rigths of European muslims even if many of us get attacked.

[Spectator]

Pakistan has accepted Israel's existence and it comprises of about 160 million muslims.

Pakistan has no embassy in Israel, and no Pakistani leader ever said that the State of Israel has the right to exist.

[Chughtai]

We are a newly formed religion and a newly from state (Pakistan). We havent been able to set aside our own differences forming the basis of sects and you think we would be able to do something for you yet, its frankly not possible yet. Alot needs to be done before that could actually happen. Three major formations of islamic philosophy as today are Sulfis, Shiya and Sunnis. Sulfis are hard liners you may call alquaeda as there sub groups coz it follows almost the same thought. Shiyya as you may know are still confused of their position and who killed the decedents of the profit and his progeny. Leving behind sunnis who were never a part of islamis society or khilafat. They were ruled by Mugal kings of india. With the end to the kingdom these people were lost and some salfis and shiya influenced groups of these people here with their ideology rest remained an intermediary sect. These people for 70 % population of muslim population of subcontinent (india & pakistan). I am one of them.

We have realized what state or govt has been doing. Our hatred is also a policy of our state be it against india and jews. But many others like me have started to think of things differently after making our mind to understand islam itself other than listening to our Imam, so called scholars , Teachers or elders who so ever push us against our nature. You guys think we enjoy having such a huge army that we spent 78 % of our country's earning for their development. Its against our wills and only this hatred can justify its existence and nothing else.

Musharraf was one of the son of this nation, highly trained army personnel and one of us who couldnt bear anymore what politicians were doing he took control, got the public mandate in year 2001 elections and showed his attentions of recognizing Israel. Internal and foriegn pressure didnt allow him to. We were threatened of our own existence if we proceeded. For me that was the decision of the public of Pakistan. Those who are aware and know what is actually happening. People here are always provoked by Israels policy of whatever they want to do with Aqsa Mosque. Its of high religious importance to us. Then people were told all sorts of stories of Jews trying to destroy Al Aqsa Mosque and almost everyone here was once again infuriated with jewish.

This is briefly my side of the story. We are told that rich jews of America wants to disintegrate you to smaller states take away the only defense and considered to be the source of our existence the nuclear bomb, who wont be threatened ?

[Chughtai]

Another thing that I want to add and I have seen couple of times is about Hindus. Some of you think that we provoke them and they are democratic nation. Let me state two facts here which might clear afew confusions.

1. We eat beef, I think you guys too. Hindu people worship cows. Its not of their particular to see us make steaks and Bar B Q out of their G-d. Its naturally provoking and a major reason for partition of the sub continent. Before that under British(300 years) and Muslim(870 years) rule everything was ok but suddenly they remembered its their G-d we are eating and all the commotion started.

2. The democracy of 1 Billion souls of the planet harboring people of about 26 different believes a few days earlier refused Pakistani cricket players participation in IPL ( Indian Premier League) after they had been invited there for the nominations of teams. They cant keep discrimination out of sports makes one wonder about the conditions of all the minorities living in India. 

[Spectator]

We are a newly formed religion and a newly from state (Pakistan). We havent been able to set aside our own differences forming the basis of sects and you think we would be able to do something for you yet, its frankly not possible yet. Alot needs to be done before that could actually happen. Three major formations of islamic philosophy as today are Sulfis, Shiya and Sunnis. Sulfis are hard liners you may call alquaeda as there sub groups coz it follows almost the same thought. Shiyya as you may know are still confused of their position and who killed the decedents of the profit and his progeny. Leving behind sunnis who were never a part of islamis society or khilafat. They were ruled by Mugal kings of india. With the end to the kingdom these people were lost and some salfis and shiya influenced groups of these people here with their ideology rest remained an intermediary sect. These people for 70 % population of muslim population of subcontinent (india & pakistan). I am one of them.

We have realized what state or govt has been doing. Our hatred is also a policy of our state be it against india and jews. But many others like me have started to think of things differently after making our mind to understand islam itself other than listening to our Imam, so called scholars , Teachers or elders who so ever push us against our nature. You guys think we enjoy having such a huge army that we spent 78 % of our country's earning for their development. Its against our wills and only this hatred can justify its existence and nothing else.

Musharraf was one of the son of this nation, highly trained army personnel and one of us who couldnt bear anymore what politicians were doing he took control, got the public mandate in year 2001 elections and showed his attentions of recognizing Israel. Internal and foriegn pressure didnt allow him to. We were threatened of our own existence if we proceeded. For me that was the decision of the public of Pakistan. Those who are aware and know what is actually happening. People here are always provoked by Israels policy of whatever they want to do with Aqsa Mosque. Its of high religious importance to us. Then people were told all sorts of stories of Jews trying to destroy Al Aqsa Mosque and almost everyone here was once again infuriated with jewish.

This is briefly my side of the story. We are told that rich jews of America wants to disintegrate you to smaller states take away the only defense and considered to be the source of our existence the nuclear bomb, who wont be threatened ?

All this only says that there are some reasonable people in Pakistan who understand that lies about Jews and Hindus are only a means to distract attention from the corruption of the ruling class. But it is only their personal opinion and will remain so until Pakistan officially recognizes Israel as the state of the Jewish people. In the meantime, Pakistan is an enemy state.

[Spectator]

Another thing that I want to add and I have seen couple of times is about Hindus. Some of you think that we provoke them and they are democratic nation. Let me state two facts here which might clear afew confusions.

1. We eat beef, I think you guys too. Hindu people worship cows. Its not of their particular to see us make steaks and Bar B Q out of their G-d. Its naturally provoking and a major reason for partition of the sub continent. Before that under British(300 years) and Muslim(870 years) rule everything was ok but suddenly they remembered its their G-d we are eating and all the commotion started.

Unlike Muslims, Jews do not interfere into the internal affairs of the other peoples. Hindus may believe in what they will, it is not our (and your) business.

2. The democracy of 1 Billion souls of the planet harboring people of about 26 different believes a few days earlier refused Pakistani cricket players participation in IPL ( Indian Premier League) after they had been invited there for the nominations of teams. They cant keep discrimination out of sports makes one wonder about the conditions of all the minorities living in India. 

Even if it is true (and I suspect it is not, because you already lied about Pakistani "acceptance of Israel"), it is nothing compared to atrocious violations of human rights in Muslim countries.

[Chughtai]

Well Spectator, its your opinion and I wont advocate the stance of Pakistan govt or people, consider it whatever you like. I would want you to think of things that could enlighten the masses who consider you as enemy and why. One way is the approach you have already taken and other ways are for you to discover.

My motive is to find my own standing in this world and for me any of that place which in anyway conflicts with the thoughts and rights of others of no matter whatever origin is wrong and I would be questioned by Allah SBWT for that. Being a muslim and living in the conditions that I have mentioned, I havent found any reason to consider you my enemy.