Author Topic: Nakedness in the Messianic Age  (Read 4325 times)

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Offline Mifletzet

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Nakedness in the Messianic Age
« on: October 17, 2007, 08:27:03 PM »
When Moshiach comes the world will be restored to the level it was before Adam Harishon sinned.

Just as the Torah says "they walked in the Garden and they were not ashamed of their nakedness", will we too walk around starkers in the Messianic Age?

If not, why not?

Will the avodah in the Third Temple be carried out by naked Cohanim?


Offline jdl4ever

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Re: Nakedness in the Messianic Age
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2007, 09:44:57 PM »
Smoking anything interesting my friend? 
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: Nakedness in the Messianic Age
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2007, 11:09:19 PM »
Its like asking will we exist? because think about it before the sin their was only Adam, Eve, Chain and his twin sister.
But truthfully dont take the thing to mean absolutly everything in the literal sense. Its talking partly about the spiritual level.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline Mifletzet

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Re: Nakedness in the Messianic Age
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2007, 12:31:06 AM »
When it says "And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and they were not ashamed" (Breishis 2), you don't take it literally?

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: Nakedness in the Messianic Age
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2007, 04:04:37 PM »
"the world will be restored to the level it was before Adam Harishon sinned."

I mean that- It doesnt mean every single thing. Its partly (greatly) about the spiritual state that Man was at and not the physical state on no clothing.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline Mifletzet

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Re: Nakedness in the Messianic Age
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2007, 07:46:49 AM »
Do you believe that there was once a physical Gan Eden located geographically on Earth, and that a physical Adam and his wife walked around naked in it?

When the Talmud & Kaballah say that the Messianic Age will equal or even exceed the pre-Fall state, then would the persistence of clothes in that Era  indicate that the ancient madreigoh had not been restored?

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: Nakedness in the Messianic Age
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2007, 02:34:01 PM »
Do you believe that there was once a physical Gan Eden located geographically on Earth, and that a physical Adam and his wife walked around naked in it?

When the Talmud & Kaballah say that the Messianic Age will equal or even exceed the pre-Fall state, then would the persistence of clothes in that Era  indicate that the ancient madreigoh had not been restored?

Drop it. What will happen (in the blurry sense) is that at the Messianic era we will reach before Adam sined. For 1,000 years. Then after 7,000 th will be the end of the material world (according to Rav Mizrahi. )
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline Mifletzet

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Re: Nakedness in the Messianic Age
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2007, 02:50:52 PM »
Actually, the Talmud says "The universe will exist 6000 years, וחד חרוב" (Sanhedrin 97), which some commentators take as one, not 1000 years! The 6000 years includes the Messianic Age, which will be at least 40 years long ie Moshiach should come by 5960. Maybe the nakedness is indeed reserved for the later Resurrection Age.

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: Nakedness in the Messianic Age
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2007, 07:52:24 PM »
Actually, the Talmud says "The universe will exist 6000 years, וחד חרוב" (Sanhedrin 97), which some commentators take as one, not 1000 years! The 6000 years includes the Messianic Age, which will be at least 40 years long ie Moshiach should come by 5960. Maybe the nakedness is indeed reserved for the later Resurrection Age.


its world not universe. I dont think it means physically, but from what I heard (from Rav Mizrahi) is that the world will exist the way it is untill the year 6,000 and then after the 7th it will be a total Shabb--at for the world and the physical world wont exist the way it is. Either way we dont know and the best way to go is to do Tishuva, as soon as possible before its too late.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Nakedness in the Messianic Age
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2007, 09:39:08 PM »
In the Messianic Age everyone will be completely naked, but everyone will be given deluxe bathrobes, and fuzzy rabbit bedroom slippers to wear when relaxing.

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: Nakedness in the Messianic Age
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2007, 09:44:48 PM »
http://www.torahanytime.com/rav_mizrachi.html

Please listin to it, and whoever had the merit to listin to this great lecture by the great Giant Rav Yossie Mizrahi, please write about it. Dont be ashamed, go ahead and listin.

04/29/07 When Masiach Comes
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline Lubab

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Re: Nakedness in the Messianic Age
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2007, 03:15:03 PM »
When Moshiach comes the world will be restored to the level it was before Adam Harishon sinned.

Just as the Torah says "they walked in the Garden and they were not ashamed of their nakedness", will we too walk around starkers in the Messianic Age?

If not, why not?

Will the avodah in the Third Temple be carried out by naked Cohanim?



This is a great question. I asked my Rabbi your question and in short this is what he said:
Not only will we reach the level from before the sin of the Eitz Hadaas, we will reach even higher.

We will still wear clothes, however, as we know that the laws of the Torah in effect now will not change.

But the purpose of our clothes then will be very different from the reason they wore clothes then. Then they wore it because they became self-conscious-which is the idea of daas (klipas nogah). In Messianic times however we will wear clothes, not to cover ourselves up, but to express our essence, our true selves, through our clothes. 

 This is hinted to in the gemarah as it says that in Rabbi Meir's Torah it says that Adam and Eve wore Katnos Ohr (with an aleph, not with an ayin) i.e. they wore "light". "Light" refers to how things become revealed, which is the idea of using clothes to reveal yourself, not conceal yourself. Rabbi Meir was already on the level of Moshiach times which is why in his Torah scroll it was written that way.

This may be a bit cryptic to some but this is the best I can do right now with this messed up keyboard.
"It is not upon you to finish the work, nor are you free to desist from it." Rabbi Tarfon, Pirkei Avot.