WOW. Talented 10-year-old kid.

[Shlomo]

I, MassuhDGoodName, hereby go on record with the following:

I strongly believe that the ONLY truly "indigenous" musics from the U.S.A. (excluding those of the Native American Indian populations) are those which originated with the Negro races living in America.

The Negro invented the popular folk forms of "Gospel", "Blues", "Jazz", "Rock'n'Roll" (oh yes...Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley, Little Richard, Jimi Hendrix, et al...), etc..... .

It was the "European Tradition" of the European musical genius which arrived on American shores with the first white colonists.

It has grown, adapted, and affected many unique characteristics; yet it remains based solely in the European tradition.

Virtually all the symphonic and orchestral works by American born composers are based on the European Music which coalesced within the Roman Catholic Church, was patronized by the Royal Houses of Europe, and today is known as "Western Music"; studied in Acadame as "Music Theory", "Harmony", "Composition", etc.... .

The popular forms of music loved and praised in every country of the world, even in distant places such as Bhutan and Australia, are all "made in the U.S.A." and invented by Negroes.  It's a fact.

All of the Negro Art forms, including music, art, dance, have been copied and adapted by white artists and composers.

I know that Chaim Ben Pesach disagrees with my views above.

No problem.

I just like to give credit where credit is due, that's all.

It's no great shame to admit that the Negroes are physically stronger, more artistically talented, more rhythmic, than are other races.

They also have a remarkable gift for comedy and experience very deep emotions.

I have often felt that the African nations could possibly profit materially if they did not attempt to do the same things as their European neighbors, but instead based their entire national incomes on the export of entertainment & tourist industries based around entertainment.

Wow, man... I didn't expect that from you. No offense but I just am kind of surprised.

I respect what you said because I think a lot of that is right. I still think we should do something about the terrible cultures and not let TV dictate our morality... but I don't think Chaim would disagree with what you said. I really don't.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "...I still think we should do something about the terrible cultures and not let TV dictate our morality... but I don't think Chaim would disagree with what you said. I really don't..."

The sad fact of the matter is that it is AMERICAN culture which is so today so unbelievably decadent and screwed up...just look at the white kids...every bit as decadent, immoral, and crime-ridden as the black kids; just acted out a little differently.  It's not just any one community or racial group which needs a "total makeover", it's the entire socio-cultural mindset of the U.S.A. in the first decade of the 21st Century.  If things don't change, and soon, then our country will have been lost forever by the end of this decade.  Personally, I am less than optimistic, because change can only be affected by each single individual choosing to change.  A strong society will pull together when subjected to stress or catastrophe.  A society as fragmented and corrupt as that around us today
is more than likely to self-destruct with random violence and barbarism should we be subject to a WMD attack.
The historians of tomorrow may well chronicle that it was high technology mass media which served as the catalyst for our self-destruction.

[Shlomo]

The sad fact of the matter is that it is AMERICAN culture which is so today so unbelievably decadent and screwed up...just look at the white kids...every bit as decadent, immoral, and crime-ridden as the black kids; just acted out a little differently.  It's not just any one community or racial group which needs a "total makeover", it's the entire socio-cultural mindset of the U.S.A. in the first decade of the 21st Century.  If things don't change, and soon, then our country will have been lost forever by the end of this decade.  Personally, I am less than optimistic, because change can only be affected by each single individual choosing to change.  A strong society will pull together when subjected to stress or catastrophe.  A society as fragmented and corrupt as that around us today
is more than likely to self-destruct with random violence and barbarism should we be subject to a WMD attack.
The historians of tomorrow may well chronicle that it was high technology mass media which served as the catalyst for our self-destruction.

I agree totally.. with one addition: it's not just American culture... it's western culture that is needing the "total makeover". A lot of the Europeans are way ahead of the US on screwed up.

Part of the problem is the entire pack mentality. The whole idea that it's ok if other people are doing it and wanting to fit in so badly. This even works on a larger scale like Israel not taking care of it's people because it's trying to please everyone (which isn't even possible).

[Scriabin]

I, MassuhDGoodName, hereby go on record with the following:

I strongly believe that the ONLY truly "indigenous" musics from the U.S.A. (excluding those of the Native American Indian populations) are those which originated with the Negro races living in America.

The Negro invented the popular folk forms of "Gospel", "Blues", "Jazz", "Rock'n'Roll" (oh yes...Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley, Little Richard, Jimi Hendrix, et al...), etc..... .

It was the "European Tradition" of the European musical genius which arrived on American shores with the first white colonists.

It has grown, adapted, and affected many unique characteristics; yet it remains based solely in the European tradition.

Virtually all the symphonic and orchestral works by American born composers are based on the European Music which coalesced within the Roman Catholic Church, was patronized by the Royal Houses of Europe, and today is known as "Western Music"; studied in Acadame as "Music Theory", "Harmony", "Composition", etc.... .

The popular forms of music loved and praised in every country of the world, even in distant places such as Bhutan and Australia, are all "made in the U.S.A." and invented by Negroes.  It's a fact.

All of the Negro Art forms, including music, art, dance, have been copied and adapted by white artists and composers.

I know that Chaim Ben Pesach disagrees with my views above.

No problem.

I just like to give credit where credit is due, that's all.

It's no great shame to admit that the Negroes are physically stronger, more artistically talented, more rhythmic, than are other races.

They also have a remarkable gift for comedy and experience very deep emotions.

I have often felt that the African nations could possibly profit materially if they did not attempt to do the same things as their European neighbors, but instead based their entire national incomes on the export of entertainment & tourist industries based around entertainment.

 
 

The idea that blacks invented all these American styles of music is laughable.  

Were jazz and blues born in a vacuum?  Or did they STEM from something ELSE?

The fact of the matter is that all 'negro' music is based on a system of tonality discovered by the Greeks, that was later adapted into chant, and then opera, instrumental music and so on by various Europeans.

'Negro' music stems from one of two things:
    
1)  The imitative bastardization of American popular music from the late 1800s through the first half of the 1900s.

2)  Slave songs.

What musical instruments did blacks invent?

If you remove white instruments from black music, what do you get?  Silence.

Jazz is entertainment.  Let's not mistake it for art.

[MassuhDGoodName]

The idea that blacks invented all these American styles of music is laughable.
-so....laugh!

Were jazz and blues born in a vacuum?  Or did they STEM from something ELSE?
-Everything stems from something else....all the way back to Ha'Shem.

The fact of the matter is that all 'negro' music is based on a system of tonality discovered by the Greeks, that was later adapted into chant, and then opera, instrumental music and so on by various Europeans.

'Negro' music stems from one of two things:
   
1)  The imitative bastardization of American popular music from the late 1800s through the first half of the 1900s.

-Incorrect--the slaves developed their musics from the musics which they had brought to these shores; mostly musics of Ghana & the western coast of Africa.
-The "slave-calls" & "slave-chants" were the same song forms imported directly from Africa.
-Very little is known today of the Greek music school, short of some scraps and some remaining modes.
-This is because the early Christian Church literally destroyed the entire body of Greek musical work.
-Musicologists claim hat the only surviving music by which modern people can hear in general what ancient Greek music sounded like is the surviving Classical Ancient Music of India.
-The Greek modes do form the roots of Western musical theory, the music of the African Negro was microtonal in scale, and developed the use of "syncopation", and introduced the art of "slide" playing for the first time on U.S. shores.
-The modern music tonal scales we today take for granted in the West, were developed by Johann Sebastian Bach.  Prior to his genius, all western music would have sounded "out of tune" to all listeners today.
-In fact, it is our current system of scales in which the tones have been deliberately detuned to enable modulations from key to key.
-For the most part, the "bastardization" of musical forms was that committed by non-negroes, who borrowed en toto the popular musics of England, Italy, & Germany.

2)  Slave songs.

What musical instruments did blacks invent?
-the banjo, the kalimba, etc...

If you remove white instruments from black music, what do you get?  Silence.

-Untrue...5 Negroes can sing fantastic and make body rhythm accompaniment.
-Take away the banjo, steel guitar, & slide blues guitar from rock bands and from country music and then we hear what they sound like when the Negro inventions are gone.

Jazz is entertainment.  Let's not mistake it for art.

-False.
-Entertainment is a matter of personal taste combined with cultural background.
-Jazz is an art form.
-The Communist Party of The Soviet Union defined art as "that which promotes Socialist Realism".
-Hitler's Nazi Party defined art as "that glorifying the Aryan Ideal and Der Vaterland".
-It is the passage of time which actually defines art; more often than not art is derided and rejected when first appearing.

[davkakach]

Interesting discussion...

[Scriabin]

The idea that blacks invented all these American styles of music is laughable.
-so....laugh!

Were jazz and blues born in a vacuum?  Or did they STEM from something ELSE?
-Everything stems from something else....all the way back to Ha'Shem.

The fact of the matter is that all 'negro' music is based on a system of tonality discovered by the Greeks, that was later adapted into chant, and then opera, instrumental music and so on by various Europeans.

'Negro' music stems from one of two things:
   
1)  The imitative bastardization of American popular music from the late 1800s through the first half of the 1900s.

-Incorrect--the slaves developed their musics from the musics which they had brought to these shores; mostly musics of Ghana & the western coast of Africa.
-The "slave-calls" & "slave-chants" were the same song forms imported directly from Africa.
-Very little is known today of the Greek music school, short of some scraps and some remaining modes.
-This is because the early Christian Church literally destroyed the entire body of Greek musical work.
-Musicologists claim hat the only surviving music by which modern people can hear in general what ancient Greek music sounded like is the surviving Classical Ancient Music of India.
-The Greek modes do form the roots of Western musical theory, the music of the African Negro was microtonal in scale, and developed the use of "syncopation", and introduced the art of "slide" playing for the first time on U.S. shores.
-The modern music tonal scales we today take for granted in the West, were developed by Johann Sebastian Bach.  Prior to his genius, all western music would have sounded "out of tune" to all listeners today.
-In fact, it is our current system of scales in which the tones have been deliberately detuned to enable modulations from key to key.
-For the most part, the "bastardization" of musical forms was that committed by non-negroes, who borrowed en toto the popular musics of England, Italy, & Germany.

2)  Slave songs.

What musical instruments did blacks invent?
-the banjo, the kalimba, etc...

If you remove white instruments from black music, what do you get?  Silence.

-Untrue...5 Negroes can sing fantastic and make body rhythm accompaniment.
-Take away the banjo, steel guitar, & slide blues guitar from rock bands and from country music and then we hear what they sound like when the Negro inventions are gone.

Jazz is entertainment.  Let's not mistake it for art.

-False.
-Entertainment is a matter of personal taste combined with cultural background.
-Jazz is an art form.
-The Communist Party of The Soviet Union defined art as "that which promotes Socialist Realism".
-Hitler's Nazi Party defined art as "that glorifying the Aryan Ideal and Der Vaterland".
-It is the passage of time which actually defines art; more often than not art is derided and rejected when first appearing.

I wrote a very long response to this which has since been deleted, and not by me.

[Scriabin]

I hope that they find and re-post what I wrote.  It was rather long I'd rather not rewrite it.

[fake plastic trees]

seems fair...

[Scriabin]

MassuhDGoodName wrote:

"Very little is known today of the Greek music school, short of some scraps and some remaining modes."

I was speaking of the various scales, modes and systems of tuning discovered by the Greeks, not pieces of music parse.

"Jazz is an art form.  The Communist Party of The Soviet Union defined art as 'that which promotes Socialist Realism'.  Hitler's Nazi Party defined art as 'that glorifying the Aryan Ideal and Der Vaterland'".

You prove my point.  Just because some lunatic says that something is art doesn't make it so.  Right or wrong, art is a way of life, a totality.  It is a pursuit of the highest striving.

I believe that there's no such thing as a synonym, that every word has a specific meaning.  Too often in our politically correct society we hear words like 'great' and 'artist' in the compassionate attempt to uplift black people and other groups.  We've gotten to the point that even 50 cent and Snoop Doggy Dog are called 'artists'.  Should not such a word be reserved for those that are truly worthy of such a distinction?

"Take away the banjo, steel guitar, & slide blues guitar from rock bands and from country music and then we hear what they sound like when the Negro inventions are gone."

Yes, but again, I'm talking about art and not entertainment.  Besides, white and European folk musicians have done quite well for themselves without banjos and slide blues guitars.  Blacks may have invented 'slide blues' but they didn't invent guitars.

"It's no great shame to admit that the Negroes are physically stronger, more artistically talented, more rhythmic, than are other races.  They also have a remarkable gift for comedy and experience very deep emotions."

I disagree. 

Blacks are more artistically talented?  They experience deep emotions? 

They're completely superficial...all flash and no substance.  What are you talking about?