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Offline Dr. Dan

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Kurds and Turkey
« on: October 24, 2007, 08:26:31 AM »
I think the Kurds are making a big mistake fighting Turkey at this time!

Out of the four: Turkey, Kurds, Shia', and Sunni, none of them are good...but I would root for the Kurds.

Now that Iraq is partitioned and Kurds are not being bothered by the Sunni's and Shia's, they should work on their part of Iraq and establish it and not go in and encourage teh Kurds of TUrkey to try to separate..even if it is for revenge from the past...It's a bad move because now they will most likely not have a chance and even their name will become worst to the world community for being rebels. Nobody likes rebels.
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Offline Husar

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2007, 08:30:58 AM »
Should we give a f..k ?

 :)
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"HUSSARORUM ALIAS RACOW"
"Hussar alias Rac (Serb)"

http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_hussars.html
"Hussar or gussar originally meant "a robber" in Serbian. These horsemen served not only under the Polish and Lithuanian colors but also under those of the Holy Roman Emperor;"
http://www.husaria.jest.pl/rys.html
"Bardzo prawdopodobne, że początek swego istnienia husarze zawdzięczają Serbom. Po klęsce na Kosowym Polu w roku 1389 wszędzie szukali okazji do pomsty na Turkach.
Jan Długosz zapisał pod rokiem 1463, że w bitwie nad Sawą bił się Cohors Raczanorum (oddział Raców - Serbów). Po śmierci króla Macieja Korwina Serbowie udali się do Polski, aby kontynuować walkę z Turkami po usarsku."
http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/polcrt/WingedHussar.html
"The hussar concept began in Serbia, near the end of the 14th century. In the 16th century, painted wings or winged claws began to appear on cavalry shields. Wings were originally attached to the saddle and later to the back. In 1645, Col. Szczodrowski was said to have used ostrich wings.
In 1500, the Polish Treasury books make reference to hussars. Early on, they were foreign mercenaries, and were called Racowie from "Rascia" a word meaning "of Serbia." They came from the Serbian state of Ras."
http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armiesofthefanatici/DarrenBuxbaum/LaterSerbs/
"Serbian Gussars"
http://ac.bondurand.com/liste332.htm
"Les serbes avaient reconnu la nécessité d'une cavalerie légère, (...) ils développèrent leur propre cavalerie légère, les GUSARS ou USARS, d'où sont venus les hussards."
http://www.armae.com/contemporain/144epeesetdagues.htm
"Originaires de Serbie, les hussards furent des cavaliers d'élite, connus surtout en Hongrie puis en France, et imités par la suite partout en Europe."
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/1b772/a9330/
"The area around the present Zorinsk (Ukrainia) belonged to the Serb Hussar Major Vuyich at the end of the 18th century."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenije_III
" Arsenije III (...) was inaugurating new Serb infantry and hussar regiments that were sent to the ongoing war."
http://www.gatago.com/pl/sci/historia/19850502.html
"Jan Długosz pod rokiem 1463 napisał, że w bitwie nad Sawą, biły się
"Cohors Raczanorum" / Początki husarii w bitwie na Kulikowym Polu
w 1389 r."
--

CcCc

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2007, 12:22:36 PM »
I asked Chaim a question about the Turks and Turkey about a couple months or so ago.  I don't recall his response.  Turkey is against the Kurds having their own state but I think Chaim is in favor of the Kurds separating from the rest of Iraq. 

Is the PKKK different than most Kurds?
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Offline Ulli

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2007, 02:54:44 PM »
Quote from: RationalThought110 on October 24, 2007, 12:22:36 PM
I asked Chaim a question about the Turks and Turkey about a couple months or so ago.  I don't recall his response.  Turkey is against the Kurds having their own state but I think Chaim is in favor of the Kurds separating from the rest of Iraq. 

Is the PKKK different than most Kurds?

The PKK is a Communist-Organization. The most Kurds are sunni-moslems and a few of them are Yezides. The PKK want for the Kurds in Turkey an own state. The relations between Israel and the PKK are bad, since Israel helped the Turkey government to catch the leader of the PKK Abdullah Öcalan. In Germany are many fellows of the PKK. After the case Öcalan, the PKK fellows attacked Israeli infrastructure in Germany.

There are a lot of articles in German about this issue, but i have found one in English too:

3
Quote
KURDS SHOT DEAD BY ISRAELI GUARDS AT BERLIN PROTEST


By ROGER COHEN
Published: February 18, 1999

Israeli guards opened fire today on dozens of Kurds trying to occupy the Israeli Consulate here, killing 3 people and wounding 16 in the worst violence since Europe-wide protests erupted over the capture of a rebel Kurdish leader on Monday.

The police said the shooting began after about 55 Kurds tried to enter the consulate in a tranquil Berlin suburb. The Kurds apparently chose their target in response to rumors that the Israeli Secret Service, Mossad, had played a role in Turkey's capture of Abdullah Ocalan, the leader of the Kurdish Workers Party.

The Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, said in Tel Aviv today that the guards had fired in self-defense after Kurds brandishing hammers and clubs entered the Berlin consulate. He denied any Israeli role in Mr. Ocalan's capture.

''We did not cooperate with any element in Ocalan's capture,'' Mr. Netanyahu said. ''We have to make this clear and emphasize this because this is the reality and this is the truth.'' Israel, which has a security cooperation agreement with Turkey, was the object of ''false accusations,'' he added.

You can read the whole article here:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE2DA1F3AF93BA25751C0A96F958260&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Organizations/U/United%20Nations
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Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2007, 03:19:51 PM »
Turkey hates Israel...they are acting on deception
And we know sunnis and shia hate Israel..

The Kurds are Muslim...so I wouldn't trust them either..

I would rather the Kurds build up their army to fight the Turks so that both countries end up devastating each other...
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If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

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Offline Merkava

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2007, 03:26:24 PM »
Quote
I would rather the Kurds build up their army to fight the Turks so that both countries end up devastating each other...

Maybe the mossad is arming both ...just like in Iran v Iraq.

Hopefully Greece will take advantage and get Cyprus back
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Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2007, 03:31:47 PM »
ARe Greece and Armenia in good terms with ISrael?
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In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Merkava

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2007, 03:39:10 PM »
Hmmmm

Diplomatically Greece is Okay with Israel. Not sure about Armenia.

Problem in Greece is that there is ALOT of Anti-Semetism. Specially in the Greek Media. There is alot of sympathy for the "opressed P@lestenians" .


http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-23.htm

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Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2007, 03:42:40 PM »
Quote from: Merkava on October 24, 2007, 03:39:10 PM
Hmmmm

Diplomatically Greece is Okay with Israel. Not sure about Armenia.

Problem in Greece is that there is ALOT of Anti-Semetism. Specially in the Greek Media. There is alot of sympathy for the "opressed P@lestenians" .


http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-23.htm



i think that any country that supports or forces israel to give its land will have a little something coming back at them with Gd's Hand
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If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Merkava

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2007, 03:58:44 PM »
Quote
i think that any country that supports or forces israel to give its land will have a little something coming back at them with Gd's Hand


Its funny with Greece. They fought bravely in WW2. They tried to protect their Jews. My grandpa was saved from the Holocaust by a Greek policeman and we know many gentiles that helped Jews during the war.

Resentment started when America did nothing about the Cypriot invasion in 1974 and the Israeli sale of weapons to the Turks.

To fuel this during the 80s you had a Nazi/Socialist leading the country for almost a decade: Andreas Papandreaus. He had great sympathy for the Arabs.

I experienced alot of Anti-Semetism in Greece. Both in school and outside. Got into alot of fights.

I can only hope they begin to see who the real enemy is. 

It seems almost fashionable to dislike Jews in Greece. I hate the Turks because they are Muslim so I will support Greece in getting back Cyprus simply because they are fighting Muslim/Nazis.





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Offline MarZutra

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2007, 04:10:03 PM »
I've been to Greece and also the many of the Arab States...  The history is fabulous but the culture and the people are charrah...in my opinion.  Their culture is similar to that of the Eastern/Arab.  When the dinner bell sounds on the ferry or cruise ship....all Hell breaks loose...  like opening up the gate and letting the hordes run free....smell and all...  Sorry, loved Greece but the people weren't very mannerly in my opinion...but than again..."we must respect and tolerate all cultures"....

Don't get me wrong, I've met a lot of nice Greeks...mainly here in Canada and a good friend of mine is a Cypriot and HATES Moslems/Arabs/Turks/Hindus/Asians....
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"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.

Offline Merkava

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2007, 04:14:14 PM »
Quote
Sorry, loved Greece but the people weren't very mannerly in my opinion

They are ! Just in a different way  :D
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Offline Ulli

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2007, 04:29:26 PM »
Quote from: dannycookie57 on October 24, 2007, 03:31:47 PM
ARe Greece and Armenia in good terms with ISrael?

Armenia is in a difficult position. On the west-border are the Turks, who murdered 2 Million armenians and on the other border are the Azerbaijans, who dream of a Great-Azerbaijan and fought against the Armenians in a bloody war. The moslem-Azerbaijan lost this war. The Armenians are able to free Berg-Karabach, an Armenian enclave in Azerbaijan.

The Problem for Armenia is, that their greatest enemies are supported by the USA and other countries of the western world. Through this they are in a very weak position. I will not hide the truth: Armenia is today a allie of Iran, because Iran is threatened through the Great-Azerbaijan-policy too. There is no help for the Armenians from the western world and they know this.

I think, when the Armenians know, that they have constant allies in the western world, they would leave this alliance with Iran instantly.

Here is a map of the development of the Armenian state through the centuries. The moslems have Armenia already annhillated. The purple line shows the land, where Armenians live traditionally. The yellow/orange painted place is the small rest of the Armenian state.




But Armenians are not antisemitic people. I think, this is because they know.
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Offline Husar

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2007, 05:27:19 PM »
"the Turks, who murdered 2 Million armenians"

With the support of germany.

 8;)
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"HUSSARORUM ALIAS RACOW"
"Hussar alias Rac (Serb)"

http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_hussars.html
"Hussar or gussar originally meant "a robber" in Serbian. These horsemen served not only under the Polish and Lithuanian colors but also under those of the Holy Roman Emperor;"
http://www.husaria.jest.pl/rys.html
"Bardzo prawdopodobne, że początek swego istnienia husarze zawdzięczają Serbom. Po klęsce na Kosowym Polu w roku 1389 wszędzie szukali okazji do pomsty na Turkach.
Jan Długosz zapisał pod rokiem 1463, że w bitwie nad Sawą bił się Cohors Raczanorum (oddział Raców - Serbów). Po śmierci króla Macieja Korwina Serbowie udali się do Polski, aby kontynuować walkę z Turkami po usarsku."
http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/polcrt/WingedHussar.html
"The hussar concept began in Serbia, near the end of the 14th century. In the 16th century, painted wings or winged claws began to appear on cavalry shields. Wings were originally attached to the saddle and later to the back. In 1645, Col. Szczodrowski was said to have used ostrich wings.
In 1500, the Polish Treasury books make reference to hussars. Early on, they were foreign mercenaries, and were called Racowie from "Rascia" a word meaning "of Serbia." They came from the Serbian state of Ras."
http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armiesofthefanatici/DarrenBuxbaum/LaterSerbs/
"Serbian Gussars"
http://ac.bondurand.com/liste332.htm
"Les serbes avaient reconnu la nécessité d'une cavalerie légère, (...) ils développèrent leur propre cavalerie légère, les GUSARS ou USARS, d'où sont venus les hussards."
http://www.armae.com/contemporain/144epeesetdagues.htm
"Originaires de Serbie, les hussards furent des cavaliers d'élite, connus surtout en Hongrie puis en France, et imités par la suite partout en Europe."
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/1b772/a9330/
"The area around the present Zorinsk (Ukrainia) belonged to the Serb Hussar Major Vuyich at the end of the 18th century."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenije_III
" Arsenije III (...) was inaugurating new Serb infantry and hussar regiments that were sent to the ongoing war."
http://www.gatago.com/pl/sci/historia/19850502.html
"Jan Długosz pod rokiem 1463 napisał, że w bitwie nad Sawą, biły się
"Cohors Raczanorum" / Początki husarii w bitwie na Kulikowym Polu
w 1389 r."
--

CcCc

Offline HiWarp

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2007, 05:38:03 PM »
Quote from: Merkava on October 24, 2007, 03:58:44 PM
Quote
i think that any country that supports or forces israel to give its land will have a little something coming back at them with Gd's Hand


Its funny with Greece. They fought bravely in WW2. They tried to protect their Jews. My grandpa was saved from the Holocaust by a Greek policeman and we know many gentiles that helped Jews during the war.

Resentment started when America did nothing about the Cypriot invasion in 1974 and the Israeli sale of weapons to the Turks.

To fuel this during the 80s you had a Nazi/Socialist leading the country for almost a decade: Andreas Papandreaus. He had great sympathy for the Arabs.

I experienced alot of Anti-Semetism in Greece. Both in school and outside. Got into alot of fights.

I can only hope they begin to see who the real enemy is. 

It seems almost fashionable to dislike Jews in Greece. I hate the Turks because they are Muslim so I will support Greece in getting back Cyprus simply because they are fighting Muslim/Nazis.







That's pretty much right on target.  The last time I was there, the news broadcast were nothing more than EU propaganda about the oppressed Palestinians.
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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny;
when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
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Offline MarZutra

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2007, 05:46:55 PM »
Ahhh... they're all Muslims no?  If so...who cares...let the bastards kill each other off...  Less work for the infidel ;)
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"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.

Offline HiWarp

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2007, 06:04:34 PM »
Quote from: MarZutra on October 24, 2007, 04:10:03 PM
I've been to Greece and also the many of the Arab States...  The history is fabulous but the culture and the people are charrah...in my opinion.  Their culture is similar to that of the Eastern/Arab.  When the dinner bell sounds on the ferry or cruise ship....all Hell breaks loose...  like opening up the gate and letting the hordes run free....smell and all...  Sorry, loved Greece but the people weren't very mannerly in my opinion...but than again..."we must respect and tolerate all cultures"....

Don't get me wrong, I've met a lot of nice Greeks...mainly here in Canada and a good friend of mine is a Cypriot and HATES Moslems/Arabs/Turks/Hindus/Asians....

Wow, I never thought I'd see my culture compared to that of Arabs.  Maybe I'm in the wrong place.
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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny;
when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
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Offline Husar

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2007, 06:11:35 PM »
HiWarp,

are you greek ?

 O0
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"HUSSARORUM ALIAS RACOW"
"Hussar alias Rac (Serb)"

http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_hussars.html
"Hussar or gussar originally meant "a robber" in Serbian. These horsemen served not only under the Polish and Lithuanian colors but also under those of the Holy Roman Emperor;"
http://www.husaria.jest.pl/rys.html
"Bardzo prawdopodobne, że początek swego istnienia husarze zawdzięczają Serbom. Po klęsce na Kosowym Polu w roku 1389 wszędzie szukali okazji do pomsty na Turkach.
Jan Długosz zapisał pod rokiem 1463, że w bitwie nad Sawą bił się Cohors Raczanorum (oddział Raców - Serbów). Po śmierci króla Macieja Korwina Serbowie udali się do Polski, aby kontynuować walkę z Turkami po usarsku."
http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/polcrt/WingedHussar.html
"The hussar concept began in Serbia, near the end of the 14th century. In the 16th century, painted wings or winged claws began to appear on cavalry shields. Wings were originally attached to the saddle and later to the back. In 1645, Col. Szczodrowski was said to have used ostrich wings.
In 1500, the Polish Treasury books make reference to hussars. Early on, they were foreign mercenaries, and were called Racowie from "Rascia" a word meaning "of Serbia." They came from the Serbian state of Ras."
http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armiesofthefanatici/DarrenBuxbaum/LaterSerbs/
"Serbian Gussars"
http://ac.bondurand.com/liste332.htm
"Les serbes avaient reconnu la nécessité d'une cavalerie légère, (...) ils développèrent leur propre cavalerie légère, les GUSARS ou USARS, d'où sont venus les hussards."
http://www.armae.com/contemporain/144epeesetdagues.htm
"Originaires de Serbie, les hussards furent des cavaliers d'élite, connus surtout en Hongrie puis en France, et imités par la suite partout en Europe."
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/1b772/a9330/
"The area around the present Zorinsk (Ukrainia) belonged to the Serb Hussar Major Vuyich at the end of the 18th century."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenije_III
" Arsenije III (...) was inaugurating new Serb infantry and hussar regiments that were sent to the ongoing war."
http://www.gatago.com/pl/sci/historia/19850502.html
"Jan Długosz pod rokiem 1463 napisał, że w bitwie nad Sawą, biły się
"Cohors Raczanorum" / Początki husarii w bitwie na Kulikowym Polu
w 1389 r."
--

CcCc

Offline Wayne Jude

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2007, 06:25:27 PM »
The Turkish have 50,00 troops on the border with Iraq.I hope they don't invade till we leave or we will have to fight them as well.Israel and the US have the most battle tested armies in the world ,but our guys are wearing down. :(
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Offline HiWarp

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2007, 06:35:24 PM »
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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny;
when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
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Offline Wayne Jude

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2007, 06:38:31 PM »
I would love to see Greece one day.
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Offline MarZutra

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2007, 06:51:19 PM »
Hiwarp, I was totally shocked to be honest.  The culture, as expected, is totally different than here in the West.  When I was there, sorry for being honest, I found the majority of the public rude unless they were your waiters or salesmen to service a client.  The shop keepers were nice, friendly as well the tour guides etc. when it came to the public on the streets...man oh man.   

We were taking a cruise from the mainland to Crete.  When the announcement for the dinner came over the ship, it was worse than a heard of cattle..  people bumping and knocking you about, no orderly fashion whatsoever.  In fact my friend Lisa was knocked off her feet and do you think the person stopped to say "sorry" or "excuse me" even in Greek?  Nope....bam, pow, slam, boof...  feet, hands, yelling etc. everywhere to get to the dining room...  sorry brother...that is exactly my experience.

Not to mention that I almost knocked out this Greek guy because he couldn't take the hint that Lisa was not interested in marrying the dude and was visibly shaken by this dudes continual sexual advancements....to the point of open rudeness...

Again brother...my experiences from my trip to Greece......  Nice archetecture and history is undenyably amazing.... 
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"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.

Offline mosquewatch

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2007, 07:35:40 PM »
Iraq is a mess. Arm all groups against each other ( within reason ) drop back a few miles and watch the mayhem.
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Offline MarZutra

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2007, 08:36:09 PM »
Quote from: mosquewatch on October 24, 2007, 07:35:40 PM
Iraq is a mess. Arm all groups against each other ( within reason ) drop back a few miles and watch the mayhem.
That is a great idea..... ;)
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"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.

Offline Wayne Jude

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Re: Kurds and Turkey
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2007, 12:45:33 PM »
I like goat cheese! :)
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