Author Topic: Intelligent Design vs. Evolution  (Read 5539 times)

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adam613

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Intelligent Design vs. Evolution
« on: October 28, 2006, 11:02:47 PM »
There have been a number of books written by scientists who have serious questions the theory of evolution. Of course anyway that question it is labeled a "religious person" that can't be objective. So , only the nonreligious can discuss evolution and of course "nonreligious" people have their won bias. I was reading part of Ann Coulters book and this was discussed how any person that question evolution they look into their background.

On top of this the conservative book club has a number of books out one the politically incorrect guide to evolution and they also have the book "Darwin's black box" 10th anniversary edition in which the author a biological chemist in which discoveries in biochemistry could not be explained by Darwin's theory of randomness. I admit at this point I don't know what to think in general of the "science" you learn as a kid about creation. Certainly, evolution is a very problematic theory so what are you to make of the rest of it (the age of the universal among other issues?) What to other people have to say about this.

adam613

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Re: Intelligent Design vs. Evolution
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2006, 01:08:57 AM »
Well according to the Book "Darwin's Black Box" there are problems with evolution. The problem he finds is some systems if one part of the system doesn't work that whole system is disfunctional and therefore it could not have developed "in stages" the way evolution believes. Here is a review of this book "DARWIN"S BLACK BOX"

Ten years ago, Darwinists could credibly boast that no "serious" scientist took issue with Darwin's theory of evolution. Then came biochemist Michael Behe's Darwin's Black Box -- and everything changed. Drawing on cutting-edge discoveries in biochemistry, Dr. Behe revealed that life at the molecular level exhibits unmistakeable evidence of design, beyond Darwinian randomness. Using the examples of vision, bloodclotting, cellular transport, and more, he showed how the biochemical world comprises an arsenal of chemical machines with so many finely calibrated, interdependent parts as to be "irreducibly complex" -- meaning that they cannot have evolved by stages, because any precursor to an irreducibly complex system that is missing a part would be completely nonfunctional

Overnight, it seemed, the Intelligent Design movement was born, and Dr. Behe became its one of its most respected and articulate spokesmen. Now, Darwin's Black Box has been reissued in a Tenth-Anniversary Edition with an all-new afterword in which Behe explains that the complexity discovered by microbiologists has dramatically increased since the book was first published -- and that the evolutionists have had no success in explaining it.

Offline jdl4ever

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Re: Intelligent Design vs. Evolution
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2006, 01:18:45 AM »
From what I hear, the black box refers to a specific issue that evolution by itself can't explain.  Evolution can explain the development of new charactaristics by random mutations in a population.  And the beneficial characteristics areselected by the envirnmentthat benefit a the population and those charactaristics are then amplified by natural selection over many generations until they are kept and gradually the species will change or evolve after many cycles of these events.  This is good so long as those charactaristics are simple like bacteria naturally selecting antibiotic resistant strains. When things get complicated, pure evolution fails. 

 What Pure Evolution (I mean evolution w/o G-d) can not explain is the development of complete organ systems since they require millions of sequential mutations to evolve, but each one of these mutations will serve no benefit for the species since an organ system must be perfect to function; a partially evolved organ system will not work.  For such a thing to happen, THERE NEEDS TO BE A G-D directing the process since mathematically it does not make sense probability wize why and how millions of senseless genetic changes will just so happen to occur over millions of years in just the right way to form a new organ system.  There must be a designer pulling the strings for this to happen.  This is the black box of evolution that evolution can not explain without putting G-d into the equation.  Hence, Inteligent design= Evolution + G-d since the two are complementary.  I like to thank one of my catholic friends for pointing out what the black box was since I didn't know about it until he told me what it is.  The pure evolutionists can not explain this and come up with crazy theories that don't make sense like theorizing times where the mutation rate was millions of times faster than normal and organisms rapidly jumped hundreds of evolutionary steps in only a few generations. 
« Last Edit: October 29, 2006, 01:28:10 AM by jdl4ever »
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Offline Christian Zionist

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Re: Intelligent Design vs. Evolution
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2006, 07:46:09 PM »
First of all evolution is not Science.  It is a psudo-science which contradicts the 2nd law of thermodynamics.  Our world is running out of resouces and going down and down. But evolution says the world went up and up and mankind evolved from low level animals.

****************Website Link Deleted************************* After reading Hail Columbia's comments.  Sorry for posting a muslim site here  >:(

If it is possible to propose a "theistic" evolution theory compromising the miracle working power of G-d of the Bible and a junk science like evolution then it opens the door to trivialize other miraculous events in the Bible.

Sir Julian Huxley was well known as the world's leading evolutinist; the first director of the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization; and the grandson of Thomas Huxley, who earned the nickname "Darwin's bulldog" for vehementlyy defnding his theory of evolution.

In a 1975 television interview, he was asked "Why have so many scientists been so quick to adopt Darwin's thoty of evolution?

Rather than respond with scientific evidence or logical arguments, Huxley said, "The reason we scientists all jumed jumped at the Origin of Species was because the idea of G-d interfered with our sexual mores"

« Last Edit: October 29, 2006, 08:49:20 PM by christianzionist »
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Offline Hail Columbia

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Re: Intelligent Design vs. Evolution
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2006, 08:30:13 PM »
*deleted*

christianzionist, good site, but the problem is that it is based on the works of Harun Yahya, a Muslim scholar.  Proceed with caution.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2006, 10:44:10 PM by Hail Columbia »


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Offline Christian Zionist

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Re: Intelligent Design vs. Evolution
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2006, 08:48:28 PM »
Hail Columbia,

Thanks for catching that.  I have deleted that link in that post.

It is interesting that a muslim showing his devotion to the theory of creation!  They believe their koran literally.  Only we Christians and Jews try to help G-d by compromising the Biblical truths with junk science like evolution.  We as Christians and Jews should learn to believe our Bible literally.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2006, 08:51:57 PM by christianzionist »
Isaiah 62:1 -  For Zion's sake I am not silent, And for Jerusalem's sake I do not rest, Till her righteousness go out as brightness, And her salvation, as a torch that burns.

Offline jdl4ever

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Re: Intelligent Design vs. Evolution
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2006, 09:18:43 PM »
Christian Zionist you know that the second law does not contradict evolution.  The second law does not say that ordered systems are not allowed to occur.  It states that every process increases the net disorder of the universe.  This is first grade basic physics and any novice knows that this is a very dumb question comming from someone who does not even know what the second law is.  It is the same reason why using an air conditioner does not contradict the second law of thermodynamics.  When you use an air conditioner, while entropy is being reduced indoors (it is getting cooler, which is more ordered) more energy is being consumed to do so and that heat is being pumped outside (see your power bill lately?) so the net disorder of the universe increases.  Similarly, when a building is built the building is more ordered than it's constituant building materials, but the amount of work and energy performed to build the building is greater than the net gain in order, so the entropy or disorder of the universe is increased.  Finally, during evolution, more energy is expended by complex (more ordered) organisms such as ourselves than simpler organisms so the net energy of the universe is increasing (also tons of energy was wasted during the evolutionary process since only serveral mutations out of millions of were useful).  This is my explanation of this basic law.  If you google it, there are thousands of sites with their own explanations but they all share this common theme. 

If I were you I would actually study evolution and physics beforehand so that I would not look uneducated.  If you guys want to believe in the literal account of creation, that's fine but I believe that intelligent design explains the contradictions in the biblical text with the literal interpuitation and makes more sense. 
« Last Edit: October 29, 2006, 09:33:28 PM by jdl4ever »
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adam613

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Re: Intelligent Design vs. Evolution
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2006, 10:23:01 PM »
At this point I have serious doubts of evolution and agree with Christian Zionist.I do support the Intelligent Design movement. The fact is that there are many scientists who have problems with evolution. Then they say that these scientists are religious and that is a bias. So. Being antireligious is also a bias. That is an ok bias I guess. If you are only going to allow antireligious scientists to express themselves of course they will deny anything that would speak of a g-d of the universe. If part of the theory is seriously flawed how can you claim the rest is legitimate. Especially, when the evolutionist deny all the problems with the theory and do not answer them only call the people that question them "religious fanatics".

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Intelligent Design vs. Evolution
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2006, 12:28:22 AM »
QUITE FRANKLY, I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THE OVERALL CONDITION OF HUMANKIND IS NOT EVOLUTION, BUT DEVOLUTION!

DOESN'T TAKE A WHOLE LOT OF BRAINS TO SEE THAT MONKEYS DON'T MARAUDE THROUGH OUR CITIES, TOWNS, FORESTS, AND JUNGLES, CARRYING MACH 9'S & MACHETES....RAPIN' STABBIN', KILLIN', BURNING, ABANDONING AND MURDERING THEIR OWN OFFSPRING, ETC... .

OBVIOUSLY THE "EVOLUTIONISTS" HAVE IT BACKWARD:  THE HUMANS HAVE A LONG LONG WAY TO GO BEFORE THEY ARE AS INTELLIGENT AND WELL BEHAVED AS THE AVERAGE MONKEY.

THINK ABOUT IT.

Offline davkakach

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Re: Intelligent Design vs. Evolution
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2006, 01:05:32 AM »
Quote
QUITE FRANKLY, I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THE OVERALL CONDITION OF HUMANKIND IS NOT EVOLUTION, BUT DEVOLUTION!

I don't think evolution is about becoming better or worse---it's about adapting to a changing environment.  Or dying.  As for the spiritual level of mankind---you're right.  There is a concept called in Hebrew "Yeridat HaDorot"---the descent of the generations.  In other words, every generation is at a lower spiritual level than the previous generation.

In general, I agree with jdl4ever---it's okay to dismiss scientific theories, even if you don't offer your own theory, but it's not okay to dismiss scientific observations and facts, and if they don't square with your understandings of the Scriptures, then it is your understanding that needs to be improved, because the Torah is true, and any contradiction between it and scientific facts is only apparent, and due to our limited understanding of Creation.  Having said that, most current evolutionary theories are just feeble attempts to explain observations.  Nobody really knows how or why it happens, just as nobody knows how a complex life form such as a human being is created out of a single cell.  ("Researchers" can list all the steps in great detail, but they can't explain yet the how and why behind each transition.)
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Re: Intelligent Design vs. Evolution
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2006, 12:55:11 PM »
the Torah is true

The Torah is true, and it shall not be disproved, God forbid

Offline Lubab

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Re: Intelligent Design vs. Evolution
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2007, 12:17:25 AM »
I don't beleive that humans came from apes, but I do beleive that apes came from humans.
I remember learning in the Midrash (i beleive) that when Kayin (Kain) killed Hevel (Abel) G-d turned Kayin into an ape. So the evolutionists got it backwards.

« Last Edit: February 16, 2007, 12:07:44 PM by lubab »
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