Do what degree do you support "animal rights"?

[newman]

I'm not really doing what Christians do, because I'm taking the Tanach in context.  Christians' problem is that they read meanings into the text that aren't there.  I'm going by the plain meaning of the text, known as the p'shat.  If it says "every moving thing that lives" then we can be pretty sure that G-d doesn't consider it "murder" for non-Jews to kill any particular animal for consumption.  And the Talmud has not contradicted this.  Also, smoking wasn't explicitly stated by G-d as being permissible to people.

So you are in favour of pornography and prostitution for gentiles because they are NOT prohibited by the 7 Laws?

No, but G-d didn't explicitly permit those either.  And if they were outlawed, I would not favor a punishment as extreme as the punishment for transgressing the actual 7 Laws.

What is noyt prohibited IS allowed.

My point is that Nations have every right to enact Laws beyond the Laws of Noah as long as nobody makes a claim that they are holy commandments. This is Rabbinical oppinion.

As for severity, there is no prohibition in the 7 Laws against treason, yet we punnish it by death. Same applies to killing whales, apes, dogs cats or horses IMO.

[newman]

I chose other.
I would have chosen:"Enjoy them for food, clothing, medicine, just don't hurt them needlessly"
But I am against the clothing thing. I just don't' believe in wearing fur, it's sick in my opinion. With women specially, why would ANY woman need a fur coat? I mean, back in the olden days, yes humans needed to wear animals in order to keep warm etc...but now we have other materials, we don't need animal skin. I also avoid leather although my family likes leather...I'm tolerant.

G_d gave all living things to us as food...BUT, there is a proviso in Talmud that we are NOT to cause "unneccessary" suffering.

The point here is that with crops, fish and regular livestock widely available, killing sentient creatures like whales and great apes is UNNECCESSARY. Think about it. The amount of resources involved in the contruction of a whaling fleet, the fuel and labour involved would build huge feedlots and farms for sheep and cattle and poduce far more kilojoules than the amount of whalemeat they harvest.

[newman]

So true Newman!

My reason also for being against wearing animals ESPECIALLY for women is that a fur coat is a source of vanity for a female. I mean, they are too expensive and all they want to do is show off their fur coat (like an expensive minx coat) Pure vanity and I am against it since I am into more modesty. Also, who eats minxes or foxes? They are only hunted and killed for fur, to feed a woman's vanity. So that is my issue. 

Also, with leather, some people also wear it for vanity, to show off their big expensive leather purse. Of course, not all, but some do, some leahter products range from cheap to expensive.

Exactly.

I don't know what the dollar cost of whale meat/kilojuol is but I bet it's rediculous. The Japs only do it out of arrogance. They hate being told what to do. The market for whale meat in Japan continues to shrink with tons of it remaining unsold in freezers.

[Joe Schmo]

[Japs] hate being told what to do.

Who doesn't?

[Dominater96]

As long as it isnt Saar Baale Chaim.

[Ultra Requete]

Funny ,I dreamed about cows and sheep and then I saw the pigs,not cute but disgusting!weird.I don't eat it anymore.Full of worms.Vile!

You have to check the meat before consumption, and other animals also have parasites.

[Mstislav]

Choice 3... otherwise we might join with PETA and begin to care more about animals than people!

We should care more about animals than SOME people. If I see a dog and an arab both drowning 100 yards apart, I'll save the dog and laugh at the arab.

  So will I

[Ultra Requete]

So true Newman!

My reason also for being against wearing animals ESPECIALLY for women is that a fur coat is a source of vanity for a female. I mean, they are too expensive and all they want to do is show off their fur coat (like an expensive minx coat) Pure vanity and I am against it since I am into more modesty. Also, who eats minxes or foxes? They are only hunted and killed for fur, to feed a woman's vanity. So that is my issue. 

Also, with leather, some people also wear it for vanity, to show off their big expensive leather purse. Of course, not all, but some do, some leahter products range from cheap to expensive.

Exactly.

I don't know what the dollar cost of whale meat/kilojuol is but I bet it's rediculous. The Japs only do it out of arrogance. They hate being told what to do. The market for whale meat in Japan continues to shrink with tons of it remaining unsold in freezers.

the leather is best for shoes, jacket and belts for ex; the weraing of sintetics is harmful to your health as its couses alergies; I wore only 100% natural clothes ; but the purses, satchels etc... can be made from synthetic leather. The pigs and cows are slughtered for meat anyway and their hides are relatively inexpensive. BTW Torah allow to eat fish but wales and dolphins are mamals and we don't to eat them in first place.   

[Daniel]

I think #3 sums it up perfectly! Animals should be slaughtered only for food and materials, and should only be slaughtered in the quickest and most humane way possible. There's no reasons to stomp on the chickens and throw them against the wall. PETA has a video on this which I saw one time. It made me absolutely sick to my stomach. PETA might be a bunch of fanatics. But their videos are enough to make even the most cold hearted and strongest stomachs to really be affected.

[Merkava]

Very true indeed Daniel

Animals should be killed in the most humane way. I saw a video clip of the baby seals and its quite a shock how they smash their skulls mercilessly. I'd like to take a baseball bat and smash one of the hunter's for a change.

[Daniel]

Very true indeed Daniel

Animals should be killed in the most humane way. I saw a video clip of the baby seals and its quite a shock how they smash their skulls mercilessly. I'd like to take a baseball bat and smash one of the hunter's for a change.

That also reminds me of a video I saw on TV one time which showed how in Asian countries, they capture a certain type of shark, they cut off their fins with the shark being fully conscious and alive, bleeding all over the place. They then dump the shark into the water where it plummets uncontrollably to the bottom of the ocean and drowns. It was one of the most horrifying and inhumane things I've ever seen!

[Merkava]

Its sad stuff.....

[AmericanLatino]

That shark story is horrible!  Reminds me of a show I saw on Animal Planet where the ASPCA officers go and protect animals in residential areas.  One time they went to investigate a complaint about hearing animals yelping for help.  THey went to a house and heard yelping in a garbage bin.  Opened it and found 8 newborn puppies in a plastic bag under a whole bunch of garbage... a lot of them died of suffocation and only 2 survived - barely... Very sad.. and I too agree that animals should only be killed when necessary and when done in the most humane/quickest way possible.

I have recently started to enjoy the sport of target shooting with rifles/bow and arrows.  And I sometimes go out on hunting trips with friends of mine and watch them hunt deer - they do so both for pleasure and for food (the actual HUNT is a pleasure, not the killing of the animal - I hope you know what I mean).  I have never actually killed a deer myself because I am pretty squeemish when it comes to the skinning/fileting...  When they 'take' the deer as they call it, they do so in a very efficient manner - always trying to get them in the heart or head with one shot.  And if they ever fail in the instant kill, they very quickly go to the wounded animal and finish it off.  I'm just telling you this in case anyone has a grudge against deer hunters and may not know exactly how it's done.  I think the whole practice of hunting is a very natural thing.   Again, as long as it's done where you're going to eat the animal and there is no unneeded suffering I think it's fine.

[Daniel]

That shark story is horrible!  Reminds me of a show I saw on Animal Planet where the ASPCA officers go and protect animals in residential areas.  One time they went to investigate a complaint about hearing animals yelping for help.  THey went to a house and heard yelping in a garbage bin.  Opened it and found 8 newborn puppies in a plastic bag under a whole bunch of garbage... a lot of them died of suffocation and only 2 survived - barely... Very sad.. and I too agree that animals should only be killed when necessary and when done in the most humane/quickest way possible.

I have recently started to enjoy the sport of target shooting with rifles/bow and arrows.  And I sometimes go out on hunting trips with friends of mine and watch them hunt deer - they do so both for pleasure and for food (the actual HUNT is a pleasure, not the killing of the animal - I hope you know what I mean).  I have never actually killed a deer myself because I am pretty squeemish when it comes to the skinning/fileting...  When they 'take' the deer as they call it, they do so in a very efficient manner - always trying to get them in the heart or head with one shot.  And if they ever fail in the instant kill, they very quickly go to the wounded animal and finish it off.  I'm just telling you this in case anyone has a grudge against deer hunters and may not know exactly how it's done.  I think the whole practice of hunting is a very natural thing.   Again, as long as it's done where you're going to eat the animal and there is no unneeded suffering I think it's fine.

You should watch the movie Powder. There's this great scene where this obnoxious guy shoots a deer and laughs about it as the deer lay dying on the ground. Powder touches the deer and then touches the guy and the guy experiences the exact feelings that the deer is experiencing. The guy completely freeks out and is never able to go hunting again afterwards.

[newman]

I don't think the Torah distinguishes between dolphins/whales and other fish/water creatures in general.  The reason is because the Torah doesn't use the same classification system as modern scientists use.  For example, in Leviticus 11:19 the bat ("atalef") is included among the bird species that are forbidden for Jews to eat, but the bat is not classified as a bird by modern scientists.  So dolphins and whales would probably be included in the fish/water creature category, and would only be forbidden to Jews because they don't meet the Torah's requirement of having both fins and scales.  Another indicator that the Torah included them in the fish category comes from the fact that the prophet Jonah was swallowed by a probable whale, which is referred to as a "dag" in the Hebrew, which translates to "fish" and is the same word used in Genesis 9 when G-d permits all fish of the sea to Noah's descendants.

Whales are NOT FISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They're MAMMALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Besides, the Torah forbids "unneccessary suffering". Given that whales suffer hugely when slaughtered (there is NO humane way to kill a whale) the killing of ANY of them constitutes unneccessary suffering!