Author Topic: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?  (Read 50371 times)

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Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2007, 04:58:55 PM »
homosexuality is unnatural. (I know your going to say that the scientists or whatever say other wise) but, its a repulsive, unnatural act that G-d hates.


Mishkav Zachur- Homosexuality 
   
There is a Teshuvah by Rav Moshe Feinstein in Chelek 4 seman 115, which is of course Halachic but it is also Hashkafic in nature. The Rabbi was writing to a fellow who it seems was caught with his Ta’avot, in his pleasures, and had succumbed to a decadent level of Mishkav Zachur, of homosexuality. He asked the Rabbi for a little Chizuk, a little encouragement in order that he should overcome his Yetzer Hara.

So the Rabbi points out in the Teshuva a few things about this grave Avon of Mishkav Zachur. He says, not only it is punishable by Karet (death), but if there was a warning and there were proper witnesses, then it would be punishable by stoning, which is in deed the most serious punishment that our Torah imposes. It is the same punishment as Chillul Shabbat.

He says further that if you look in the Parasha of Mishkav Zachur, the word ‘Toeva’, which means abomination, is written twice. It is written more than any other of the Raayot, more than other of the illicit relations. And Rabbi Feinstein says that in the Gemara, it says that ‘Toeva’ is ‘Toe Hu Ba’. Meaning that he is making a mistake in it. He explains this as against human nature. It is a type of Avon (transgression) that is just in defiance of Bore Olam. It’s just out of anger in order to rebel against Bore Olam, because there should be no normal nature the way G-d created people to go after such a thing.

Furthermore, Rav Feinstein says that one of the ways that this can be controlled is if one will know that even by wicked people this is considered abominable. Which means certain other Avonot are accepted by society. Unfortunately we are living in a society today where it is almost becoming an acceptable lifestyle. But to most normal balanced people this is considered disgusting. Even people who are not so careful in other things, when it comes to Mishkav Zachur, it is disgusting. So if a perpetrator of such a sin remembers that and that he is disgusted by those who make such a sin, then already it might control it a little further.

The Pasuk writes in Devarim, [listen to the audio clip for the exact quote] that at the end of time they are going to anger G-d with abominations. The text reads, ‘BeToevot Yachisuhu’. Rashi says, that this refers to BeToevot Mishkav Zachur. So we see over here, as we said, it is done out of rebellion. It is done in anger of G-d, because there is no real pleasure for such a thing. It’s against human nature and it is not accepted by decent society.

Last but not least he quotes a Rambam, which says that the best way to control all passions and desires is by opening the mind up and sitting to study Torah. Just sit and learn and study in depth and go to classes and fill the mind with the study of Torah. Somehow the light of the Torah overcomes a person and is able to mitigate his base pleasures.

So again, as I said, The Torah and Halacha is clear on Mishkav Zachur. Unfortunately we have to speak about this clearly, because in society today there are those who want to pervert the Torah and say that today it doesn’t apply, and it was for then and not today, and that it is accepted today. But no, it is just as abominable today as it was 3000 years ago. It is just as much as Karet today as it was always. Although we can’t stone today, but it is still such a sin of grave nature. And for those who are crippled by this Avon, books do bring down that if Bore Olam gave a person even a tendency or weakness if that is possible, Bore Olam gave him the ability to overcome it also. Bore Olam would not give a test if the person would not have the strength to overcome it.

So either way, this Toeva must be put under control. We can not accept it certainly in society, or have tolerance. But the Rabbi did have tolerance to a person who was trying to help himself. The Rabbi did write a long letter to him as we see, to try and rehabilitate him. So there is a level, that if a person makes an effort to come back, that you deal with such a thing. But to tolerate or accept it as an alternate lifestyle, this would be contempt of the Torah.
 

http://dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=495&txtSearch=homosexuality  ( A Few minutes, please listin).
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline Bodhi

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2007, 05:07:09 PM »
i  dont have a problem with anyone's opinions on anything unless it is detrimentally affecting me or other like minded people... Homo's are in your face about the stuff they get up to which is going against the word of G-d.

Both Christianity and Judaism appose gays

BUT ISLAM PERMITS IT... i can see why ;D

  Really?  I guess it's not surprising though, Islam pretty much permits bestiality, and many unsavory things.......I personally don't hate homosexuals, I pity them and feel sorry for them and their famillies.........I think they are generally very unhappy people, but as long as they don't act unappropriately towards me, my children etc, I think it's between them and G-d. 

Offline Merkava

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2007, 05:11:13 PM »
Quote
I pity them and feel sorry for them and their famillies.
Me too ...I would be devastated if my son was gay
"We are in 1938, and Iran is Germany"


Offline Eliezer Ben Avraham

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2007, 07:31:43 PM »
Personally, I am especially against Homosexuality for Jews, as it is explicits forbidden in the Torah, for non-Jews I recognize that it is unnatural and I encourage Righteous gentiles to fight it, but it doesn't bother me as much with non-Jews
KAHANE TZADAK!

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2007, 07:40:11 PM »
Personally, I am especially against Homosexuality for Jews, as it is explicits forbidden in the Torah, for non-Jews I recognize that it is unnatural and I encourage Righteous gentiles to fight it, but it doesn't bother me as much with non-Jews

Its also not allowed for non-Jews. Its supposed to be punishible by death.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2007, 07:44:39 PM »
I have on an individual level befriended a couple of people who are homosexual. It is not my place to individually attack them and treat them like crap. It is very much my job to stand against their attempt to take over the nation and force everybody to believe that their bizarre, sick lifestyle is normal and great.


Offline Daniel

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2007, 07:46:54 PM »
But in the end, women are left out, and in tern, could become homo as well

But more importantly, a large decline in newborns

I have heard this argument many times about how this will cause a decrease in newborns. I don't think we need to worry about the human race dying out anytime soon. If the human race does die out, it's certainly not going to be caused by homosexuality. If homosexuals make up about 10 percent of the human population, there's still plenty left over to continue populating the world.

Offline Zionist Revolutionary

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2007, 07:50:13 PM »
But in the end, women are left out, and in tern, could become homo as well

But more importantly, a large decline in newborns

I have heard this argument many times about how this will cause a decrease in newborns. I don't think we need to worry about the human race dying out anytime soon. If the human race does die out, it's certainly not going to be caused by homosexuality. If homosexuals make up about 10 percent of the human population, there's still plenty left over to continue populating the world.

That statistic has been proven to be phony.  The real number is around 1%(?)

Offline Daniel

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2007, 07:53:25 PM »
it's a disease!

I believe EVERYONE here would like a cure for diseases from cancer to Asthma.

It's un-human to allow a disease to run wild. There is a solution to this disease (and no, im not talking about a bullet :D ) , and if it's not stopped, it will continue spreading!

There's plenty of drugs to treat asthma. For just about any type of disease or syndrome, you can bet your bottom dollar that there is some pill that you can take to treat the symptoms. The pharmaceutical companies stand to make billions off of any drug they can successfully market, even those that may not work as well as they claim. But isn't it interesting that the one syndrome that the pharmaceutical companies haven't come up with any drug for is homosexuality. Why is that? Wouldn't that be such an enormous benefit? Wouldn't the drug companies make billions of dollars from this? I can't understand for the life of me why I don't see Homocil advertised on TV during the evening news every night.

Offline Daniel

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2007, 07:54:30 PM »
But in the end, women are left out, and in tern, could become homo as well

But more importantly, a large decline in newborns

I have heard this argument many times about how this will cause a decrease in newborns. I don't think we need to worry about the human race dying out anytime soon. If the human race does die out, it's certainly not going to be caused by homosexuality. If homosexuals make up about 10 percent of the human population, there's still plenty left over to continue populating the world.

That statistic has been proven to be phony.  The real number is around 1%(?)

That proves my point even more. If just 1% of the population is homosexual, then why in the world are we concerned about the human race dying out as a result of homosexuality?

Offline Raulmarrio2000

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2007, 08:09:34 PM »
The world is overpopulated. Don't worry about a few people who don't marry and have children, either because of sexual deviation, or simply because they have chosen celibate.
Regarding the sin, homosexulity is a capital crime in the Torah. Breaking the Shabat (for a Jew) has exactrly the same punishment. But if we claim to stone any Jew who has ever violated Shabat voluntarily, then we would need a new Holocaust. Only 10% of Israeli Jews keep Shabat properly. So we'd have to join the Arabs who want to kill Jews. That's absurd!!!!!

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2007, 08:14:34 PM »
The world is overpopulated. Don't worry about a few people who don't marry and have children, either because of sexual deviation, or simply because they have chosen celibate.
Regarding the sin, homosexulity is a capital crime in the Torah. Breaking the Shabat (for a Jew) has exactrly the same punishment. But if we claim to stone any Jew who has ever violated Shabat voluntarily, then we would need a new Holocaust. Only 10% of Israeli Jews keep Shabat properly. So we'd have to join the Arabs who want to kill Jews. That's absurd!!!!!

Its not the job of arabs to kill Jews, and even if G-d uses them for that mission, still they will be punished for it. For dealing with that one would need the proper JEWISH court, and their is a whole legal procession that takes place.
 As regards to gentiles- they alse are required to have a court system. And homosexuality is not allowed for them either, soo technically homos are supposed to recieve the death penalty for doing that act.
 Either way for both cases society should see how bad these acts can be and are and this should be a deterrent against such acts.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

raiseyourfist

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2007, 09:12:08 PM »
it's a disease!

I believe EVERYONE here would like a cure for diseases from cancer to Asthma.

It's un-human to allow a disease to run wild. There is a solution to this disease (and no, im not talking about a bullet :D ) , and if it's not stopped, it will continue spreading!

Im sorry but i don't agree...

AIDS is a disease... homosexuality is simply a bi-product of this

It's been proven to be a mental illness

Or did i just misunderstand your reply? lol  ::)

Well there is always going to be compromises in life..

if someone wants to go down the dirt path thats their decision...

LOL i just got that one too :::D


on a serious not i do know of guys who became gay becasue they were'nt able to find a woman.. as sick as this is going to sound everyone needs someone to love..

where do you draw the boundaries to this?

Boeregeneraal

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2007, 11:50:34 PM »
Shalom Tzvi

My backup has arrived :)

Thanks for that Tzvi.

Offline Merkava

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2007, 03:11:02 AM »
Well ...it happens that the closest synagogue to my house is a Reform, I have been twice and I didn't like it. Felt more like being in church. But I actually spoke with one of the members and he told me that previous rabbi had been a female and she was a lesbian. I find that a bit ironic ...what do you think ?
"We are in 1938, and Iran is Germany"


newman

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2007, 03:29:12 AM »
Well ...it happens that the closest synagogue to my house is a Reform, I have been twice and I didn't like it. Felt more like being in church. But I actually spoke with one of the members and he told me that previous rabbi had been a female and she was a lesbian. I find that a bit ironic ...what do you think ?

That's the deform movement for you. False, twisted non-Judaism.

Think of Orthodox Judaism as a nice pint of Newcastle Brown Ale. The real deal, right.

Think of reform 'Judaism' as 0.2 pints Newkie Brown, 0.3 pints lemonade, 0.2 pints spit, 0.1 pints toilet bowl water and 0.2 pints poison.

Offline Merkava

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2007, 04:02:32 AM »
Thats an interesting view. Problem is that where I live there aren't that many Jews in the 1st place ! I think it may be better if I get a cab, pay £10 and go to the Orthodox one in the other side of town.
"We are in 1938, and Iran is Germany"


newman

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2007, 04:13:03 AM »
Thats an interesting view. Problem is that where I live there aren't that many Jews in the 1st place ! I think it may be better if I get a cab, pay £10 and go to the Orthodox one in the other side of town.

10 quid for real Judaism (instead of deform baloney for free) is a bargain.

Offline Merkava

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2007, 04:16:28 AM »
lol !!!!
"We are in 1938, and Iran is Germany"


Offline Ambiorix

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2007, 08:10:27 AM »
Quote
I get a cab, pay £10 and go to the Orthodox one in the other side of town.
You have to count how much it costs you in a year. Perhaps if you can't pay for it, move to the other side of town or go by bus?
Quote
think of Orthodox Judaism as a nice pint of Newcastle Brown Ale. The real deal, right.
Is alcohol kosher ?
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline DALMACIJA

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2007, 08:37:34 AM »
I hate to discuss about homosexuals.

In Serbia homosexualism is not tolerated.
They tried to organize a gay parade in our capital, Belgrade city.

Men, women, children and old people kicked their heads!
We showed them that Serbia does not accept homosexualism.

No homosexuals on Serbian lands.

I do not know in which century it was exactly but there was a period in Serbia when homosexuals were executed.

Stop Sodom and Gomorra!

Remember what happened wit the cities Sodom and Gomorra!

newman

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2007, 08:44:52 AM »
I hate to discuss about homosexuals.

In Serbia homosexualism is not tolerated.
They tried to organize a gay parade in our capital, Belgrade city.

Men, women, children and old people kicked their heads!
We showed them that Serbia does not accept homosexualism.

No homosexuals on Serbian lands.

I do not know in which century it was exactly but there was a period in Serbia when homosexuals were executed.

Stop Sodom and Gomorra!

Remember what happened wit the cities Sodom and Gomorra!

They deserve it if they want to have sodomy parades and shout faggotry from the roof tops.

Nobody cares what they do behind closed doors. Why aren't they satisfied with doing their thing and shutting up about it?

Offline DALMACIJA

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2007, 09:01:36 AM »
Nobody cares what they do behind closed doors. Why aren't they satisfied with doing their thing and shutting up about it?


Those behind doors activities will bring curses toward the rest.
For the purity of the nation it must be eliminated.

No gays on Serbian lands! Not even one!

Offline Merkava

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2007, 09:12:55 AM »
Quote
Those behind doors activities will bring curses toward the rest.
For the purity of the nation it must be eliminated.

No gays on Serbian lands! Not even one!

I actually know someone that is Serbian and gay. He was a dancer in a club in Athens. Really cool guy.  So I am totally cool about hi being gay.
"We are in 1938, and Iran is Germany"


Boeregeneraal

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Re: WHY SO MUCH HATE TOWARDS HOMOSEXUALS ?
« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2007, 09:41:06 AM »
Quote
Those behind doors activities will bring curses toward the rest.
For the purity of the nation it must be eliminated.

No gays on Serbian lands! Not even one!

I actually know someone that is Serbian and gay. He was a dancer in a club in Athens. Really cool guy.  So I am totally cool about hi being gay.

 :o :o :o
dont tell me you go to gay clubs now!?!?  :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D