Author Topic: So if Secular Jews have declined to 20% of Israel's population...  (Read 4092 times)

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Offline yeshuadisciple

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why do you still have these crazy governments that don't believe the Bible and want to give away all your land? 

Here's a link to a Christian website that has regular Israel news updates:

http://www.davidhocking.org/blog/?p=270

It says secular Jews have declined from 40 to 20 percent in the last 30 years.  So do the secular Jews align themselves with the Arab parties and sell out religious parties? 
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.  And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zechariah 12:9-10

"Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.  "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.  "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.  "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."
Daniel 9:24-27




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newman

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Re: So if Secular Jews have declined to 20% of Israel's population...
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2007, 11:07:08 PM »
There are more than just secular and Orthodox. There are reform, conservative, reconstructionist and 'Traditional' Jews, too. Many of these are still insane enough to vote Kadima.

Offline jdl4ever

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Re: So if Secular Jews have declined to 20% of Israel's population...
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2007, 11:55:46 PM »
To be honest, I think that even if the Secular declined to 20% things would not change too much since a lot of the religious Jews in Israel are not Kahanist are are afraid of "what the world will say" and the ultra religious Charedim would do the same thing since they are afraid of actually going out of Yeshiva and applying the Torah they learned.  But it would be a great start since a lot of the religious want to do what the Bible says and throw out the Arabs so at least the Kahanist party will not be banned any more and we will take power.
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

newman

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Re: So if Secular Jews have declined to 20% of Israel's population...
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2007, 12:04:07 AM »
To be honest, I think that even if the Secular declined to 20% things would not change too much since a lot of the religious Jews in Israel are not Kahanist are are afraid of "what the world will say" and the ultra religious Charedim would do the same thing since they are afraid of actually going out of Yeshiva and applying the Torah they learned.  But it would be a great start since a lot of the religious want to do what the Bible says and throw out the Arabs so at least the Kahanist party will not be banned any more and we will take power.
When they do get out of the Yeshiva they apply 'crazy' Torah.

Charedim soldiers refuse to carry stretchers with female soldiers on them! That's nuts!!

I know it's not kosher to touch a woman you're not married to inappropriately but how can they justify not carrying a wounded Jewess to safety?

Offline jdl4ever

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Re: So if Secular Jews have declined to 20% of Israel's population...
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2007, 12:09:46 AM »
Exactly right Newman, many of these kinds of people are outright crazy as is their Rabbis.  They simply are ignorant in Torah so they invent their own Torah by just saying "it's forbidden" to everything they don't know and being blind sheep they just follow what their Rabbi says.  My grandfather suggested this about the CXXXXX living in his town of Europe where the Rabbi of that group actually informed to the government against my grandfather's father.
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

newman

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Re: So if Secular Jews have declined to 20% of Israel's population...
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2007, 12:16:09 AM »
Exactly right Newman, many of these kinds of people are outright crazy as is their Rabbis.  They simply are ignorant in Torah so they invent their own Torah by just saying "it's forbidden" to everything they don't know and being blind sheep they just follow what their Rabbi says.  My grandfather suggested this about the CXXXXX living in his town of Europe where the Rabbi of that group actually informed to the government against my grandfather's father.
Many people besides the Charedim want to abrogate their responsibility to think. Look at the christians who blindly follow a particular minister. They end up drinking poison coolaid in Guyana or burning in Waco.

Just as we would get a second opinion on medical matters we should do the same in religion.

Offline yeshuadisciple

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Re: So if Secular Jews have declined to 20% of Israel's population...
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2007, 12:16:55 AM »
edited
« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 03:13:58 AM by yeshuadisciple »
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.  And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zechariah 12:9-10

"Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.  "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.  "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.  "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."
Daniel 9:24-27




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Offline jdl4ever

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Re: So if Secular Jews have declined to 20% of Israel's population...
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2007, 01:23:40 AM »
For there is one G-d, and one mediator also between G-d and men, the man Christ Jesus,
It would be nice if you could not say things that will cause fighting on this forum as we all (Jews, Gentiles and Christians) want to work together to accomplish the same goal and we must put aside our differences by not saying such things that bring out division.  You won't hear me saying negative things about Christianity or things that will offend our righteous Christian members for this reason.  Our perspective is that medicinal cures on Sabbath unless it is a life saving emergency is forbidden at least back then because picking from the plant and grinding the medicinal herbs is considered working and working on the Sabbath is not permitted. 
« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 11:28:31 AM by jdl4ever »
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

Offline yeshuadisciple

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Re: So if Secular Jews have declined to 20% of Israel's population...
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2007, 02:51:46 AM »
For there is one G-d, and one mediator also between G-d and men, the man Christ Jesus,
It would be nice if you could not say things that will cause fighting on this forum as we all (Jews, Gentiles and Christians) want to work together to accomplish the same goal and we must put aside our differences by not saying such things that bring out division.  You won't hear me saying negative things about Christianity or things that will offend our righteous Christian members for this reason.  Our perspective is that medicinal cures on Sabbath unless it is a life saving emergency is forbidden at least back then because picking from the plant and grinding the medicinal herbs is considered working and working on the Sabbath is permitted. 

Right, got it.
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.  And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zechariah 12:9-10

"Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.  "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.  "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.  "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."
Daniel 9:24-27




My lovely wife

newman

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Re: So if Secular Jews have declined to 20% of Israel's population...
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2007, 02:56:16 AM »
For there is one G-d, and one mediator also between G-d and men, the man Christ Jesus,
It would be nice if you could not say things that will cause fighting on this forum as we all (Jews, Gentiles and Christians) want to work together to accomplish the same goal and we must put aside our differences by not saying such things that bring out division.  You won't hear me saying negative things about Christianity or things that will offend our righteous Christian members for this reason.  Our perspective is that medicinal cures on Sabbath unless it is a life saving emergency is forbidden at least back then because picking from the plant and grinding the medicinal herbs is considered working and working on the Sabbath is permitted. 

Right, got it.
Talmud is very involved. There are even rules about if two people each leading laden donkies down a narrow mountain path meeting exactly halfway up, which one has to back up.

Ask a question like "Can I heat up soup on Shabbat if an elderly person gets pneumonia and will die without hot soup?" and it will set learned Torah schollars arguing for hours.

Offline yeshuadisciple

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Re: So if Secular Jews have declined to 20% of Israel's population...
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2007, 03:14:57 AM »
For there is one G-d, and one mediator also between G-d and men, the man Christ Jesus,
It would be nice if you could not say things that will cause fighting on this forum as we all (Jews, Gentiles and Christians) want to work together to accomplish the same goal and we must put aside our differences by not saying such things that bring out division.  You won't hear me saying negative things about Christianity or things that will offend our righteous Christian members for this reason.  Our perspective is that medicinal cures on Sabbath unless it is a life saving emergency is forbidden at least back then because picking from the plant and grinding the medicinal herbs is considered working and working on the Sabbath is permitted. 

Right, got it.
Talmud is very involved. There are even rules about if two people each leading laden donkies down a narrow mountain path meeting exactly halfway up, which one has to back up.

Ask a question like "Can I heat up soup on Shabbat if an elderly person gets pneumonia and will die without hot soup?" and it will set learned Torah schollars arguing for hours.

I've heard the line that if you ask 2 Jews for an opinion about religion you'll get 3 answers.  Obviously tongue in cheek but funny.
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.  And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zechariah 12:9-10

"Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.  "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.  "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.  "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."
Daniel 9:24-27




My lovely wife

newman

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Re: So if Secular Jews have declined to 20% of Israel's population...
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2007, 03:22:41 AM »
For there is one G-d, and one mediator also between G-d and men, the man Christ Jesus,
It would be nice if you could not say things that will cause fighting on this forum as we all (Jews, Gentiles and Christians) want to work together to accomplish the same goal and we must put aside our differences by not saying such things that bring out division.  You won't hear me saying negative things about Christianity or things that will offend our righteous Christian members for this reason.  Our perspective is that medicinal cures on Sabbath unless it is a life saving emergency is forbidden at least back then because picking from the plant and grinding the medicinal herbs is considered working and working on the Sabbath is permitted. 

Right, got it.
Talmud is very involved. There are even rules about if two people each leading laden donkies down a narrow mountain path meeting exactly halfway up, which one has to back up.

Ask a question like "Can I heat up soup on Shabbat if an elderly person gets pneumonia and will die without hot soup?" and it will set learned Torah schollars arguing for hours.

I've heard the line that if you ask 2 Jews for an opinion about religion you'll get 3 answers.  Obviously tongue in cheek but funny.

It's true.

There's another one about 4 Jews marooned on a desert island. When rescued six months later they'd formed 7 political parties.