'Courage is the antidote' Nick Griffin from BNP shouted down at MSU

[Ultra Requete]

Tuesday, October 30, 2007
'Courage is the antidote'

Nick Griffin shouted down at MSU:


...Griffin was invited to Michigan State by the campus chapter of Young Americans for Freedom. He was supposed to give a one-hour talk about Islam and then answer questions for an hour, but audience members started shouting at him shortly after he started his talk and he shifted to Q&A format so he could answer what was being shouted at him.''


This account gives a more benign-sounding version of the event:



EAST LANSING - When British Nationalist Nick Griffin took the podium at a Friday night Michigan State University event, he tried to explain how Islam is a threat to Western civilization.

Protesters wouldn't have it.

Hurling obscenities and using chants to interrupt his address, rambunctious student organizations forced Griffin to abandon his speech and allow an informal question and answer session.

What followed was an unstructured banter between the speaker and a crowd of roughly 75 protesters. While many attempted to ask Griffin legitimate questions, others shouted obscenities.

"We have all come from different backgrounds," said Authra Khreis, 17, a pre-med student and a protester. "We should accept one another. I don't think he should be allowed to speak. You can use free speech until you hurt another person."

Griffin was invited to campus by a conservative student organization called Young Americans for Freedom, or YAF.''


According to members of YAF, they were chased from the building by those 'rambunctious student organizations' whose members were wielding canes and iron bars.

More from the article:


One student who engaged in a particularly long debate with Griffin was Junaid Mattu, a finance junior from India.

"I am a supporter of free speech, but at the same time there has to be a benchmark," he said. "Why does MSU time and time again show its insensitivity to minorities by inviting racists?"

Because several speakers invited to MSU by YAF have sparked controversy, MSU Trustee Faylene Owen is asking the Board of Trustees to take action.

"I realize that people like this have a right to speak on this campus, but we don't have to condone it," she said at a Friday meeting.

She called for a board resolution that "expresses our disapproval as a board of the message of hate expressed by this person."

"He's a hatemonger," she added in a later interview. "He says there's never been a Holocaust and Muslims are terrible people."


Please notice how a couple of the opponents of free speech who are quoted in the article are foreign students, such as Junaid Mattu from India and Authra Khreis, who comes from an unnamed foreign country. May I politely suggest to these 'guests' in our country that they have no standing to tell Americans what 'free speech' means, or to tell us that it must be limited according to their specifications? Does 'sensitivity to minorities' dictate what we can and cannot hear, or say? If so, free speech and freedom of thought are dead as a doornail in this country. This is one of the fruits of our foolish openness, and our willingness to bring so many foreign people who come from countries with no tradition of free speech and no ideas about our Constitution and Bill of Rights. They have no more right to come here and try to silence anyone than I would be afforded if I went to India and tried to silence people who 'offended' me, or if I went to Authra Khreis's unnamed country and told them how they are to conduct themselves. We in the West are the doormats of the world, allowing strangers to invade our countries and butt into our affairs, laying down the law to us. The whole world has our number now; they see that we are weak as water and that we allow others to manipulate us by guilt, and bully us with their demands.

What is going on in our world? The leftists and liberals are becoming increasingly unhinged, which is baffling, since they have everything their way; even our wimpified, politically correct country is 'right-wing and fascist' in their warped view.

The recent attack by some crazed leftist harpy on Condoleezza Rice, although I am not a fan of Rice, was a disgusting display, and it shows the increasingly unhinged behavior of the left. And then there was the heckler who angered Bill Clinton at a recent appearance, and the 'Truthers' who heckled leftist Bill Maher. So the left is attacking not only the right, but their own.

And of course in recent days we've been seeing the right (if you consider mainstream Republicans and neocons as the 'right') assaulting and accusing those they consider too right-wing and 'racist' or 'Islamophobic.' There was the Watson controversy, in which the 'right' were conspicuous by their absence when it came time to defend Watson for his 'racist' comments.

There are 'conservative' blogs which have been banning those who deviate from the party line, and then we have the neocon mouthpieces like Michael Medved recently using the old neo-nazi smear against Ron Paul.

This is actually not a new thing, this purging of those who are too far right: Free Republic, with its mass bannings of immigration restrictionists (although some have been allowed back, as the climate has changed) and certain other 'anti-illegal immigration' forums have had a longstanding practice of ejecting anybody, sometimes in a most humiliating fashion, for being too 'xenophobic' or 'racist'. You must always assert your eager support for LEGAL immigration or risk being blackballed for being a 'hater'.

So free speech is under assault from all quarters; it used to be that the right was somewhat more tolerant, despite popular stereotypes, than the hypocritical preachers of 'tolerance' on the Left, but now many on the right are just as intolerant. Do we not suppose that many on the neocon right were glad to see Nick Griffin silenced and shouted down?

The blogger who has been banning so many PC transgressors has also condemned Nick Griffin, and the YAF for sponsoring his speech at MSU. So the left and some of the 'right' are in agreement when it comes to politically incorrect speech; they favor silencing or shouting down or destroying the careers of those they deem beyond the pale.

I've been following the discussion on some of the mainstream 'counterjihad' blogs and forums and the dialogue often shows little sign of having improved or opened up; there is still a hierarchy of political correctness, in which many people ritually go through their denunciations of 'racists' and 'Islamophobes' and anti-Semites.There is still an obsessive concern with being 'moderate' or appearing so in order to attract more 'mainstream' people. This, I think, is a vain hope, and above all, I am at a loss to explain why people think we have all the time in the world to 'convert' the indifferent or the timid or the obtuse or the politically correct. Why do so many of these people, who obsess over Islam and jihad not see the urgency of our situation? As I see it, we are at a crossroads, and we have to take the shortest route to get to safety; we have no time for niceties and palaver and dialogue and trying to appear mild in order to attract the moderates.
Why is there so little sense of urgency among some on the so-called 'right'? Is it timidity, or wishful thinking, or denial, or is it just temporizing, hoping to buy time at the least expense?

With this unholy convergence between the PC right and the PC left, we are coming perilously close to outlawing 'hate' in general; we will not even be allowed to 'hate' those who are trying to kill us or conquer us. As I've written before, how can we outlaw emotions, especially when it is natural to feel antipathy and anger, and yes, sometimes hate?

We can and do outlaw certain behaviors that might be associated with 'hate'; we have laws against harassment, and inciting violence, and against assault and murder. We can and do outlaw behaviors, and I support harsh penalties for those who commit violence except in self-defense. But trying to forbid people to have an unfavorable opinion or a fear or yes, outright hatred for someone is wrong.

In a sense, we are all Nick Griffin, we who defy political correctness. Those who join in the braying mobs who shout him and all other dissenters down, whether they call themselves 'conservative' or right-wing, or left wing, they are the 'fascists' they profess to oppose.

I will quote, again, from J.R. Nyquist on Oriana Fallaci, who is an inspiration to me:


In the West, she says, our corrupt culture does not punish the body. It does not confiscate your assets or violate your political rights. It kills the soul by eliminating the possibility that anyone will acknowledge you. The thinker who steps out-of-bounds is quickly isolated, diagnosed, dismissed, being neither followed nor respected. The culture denounces what remains of a “wretch, a lunatic, a liar, a dissolute, a sinner.” Today’s democracy condemns the lone voice, the voice in the wilderness, “to civic death.” According to Fallaci, “Everything can be expressed, everything can be spread, except the freedom of revealing the truth. Because the truth leaves no way out, and inspires fear.”

Fear is the determining factor in the decline of democracy, Fallaci claims. And therefore courage is the antidote.''

posted by Vanishing American at 3:01 AM   
http://vanishingamerican.blogspot.com/2007/10/courage-is-antidote.html

[Ultra Requete]

Protesters shout down anti-Islam speaker at MSU
Audience uses chants, obscenities to interrupt British Nationalist's speech
Brendan Bouffard
Lansing State Journal


EAST LANSING - When British Nationalist Nick Griffin took the podium at a Friday night Michigan State University event, he tried to explain how Islam is a threat to Western civilization.

Protesters wouldn't have it.

Hurling obscenities and using chants to interrupt his address, rambunctious student organizations forced Griffin to abandon his speech and allow an informal question and answer session.

What followed was an unstructured banter between the speaker and a crowd of roughly 75 protesters. While many attempted to ask Griffin legitimate questions, others shouted obscenities.

"We have all come from different backgrounds," said Authra Khreis, 17, a pre-med student and a protester. "We should accept one another. I don't think he should be allowed to speak. You can use free speech until you hurt another person."

Griffin was invited to campus by a conservative student organization called Young Americans for Freedom, or YAF.

Kyle Bristow, chairman of YAF, said his organization invited Griffin to promote intellectual debate. Bristow said he doesn't believe in many of the ideas Griffin has preached, particularly his alleged denial of the Holocaust, but does agree that the Islamic faith is a threat to America.

"I'll stop saying their religion is terrible when they stop flying planes into buildings," he said.

"Islam is horrible. The extreme in Christianity is 'love thy neighbor,' with Islam it is violence."

One student who engaged in a particularly long debate with Griffin was Junaid Mattu, a finance junior from India.

"I am a supporter of free speech, but at the same time there has to be a benchmark," he said. "Why does MSU time and time again show its insensitivity to minorities by inviting racists?"

Because several speakers invited to MSU by YAF have sparked controversy, MSU Trustee Faylene Owen is asking the Board of Trustees to take action.

"I realize that people like this have a right to speak on this campus, but we don't have to condone it," she said at a Friday meeting.

She called for a board resolution that "expresses our disapproval as a board of the message of hate expressed by this person."

"He's a hatemonger," she added in a later interview. "He says there's never been a Holocaust and Muslims are terrible people."

MSU President Lou Anna Simon said that Griffin's views on immigration and multiculturalism were "inconsistent with the values of Michigan State University."

"YAF has chosen an array of speakers that continue to test the values of the institution, both in terms of being antithetical to our values of being a multicultural, inclusive community and at the same time testing our commitment to free speech," she said.

"That's a very, very delicate balance."

But she also said the university allows student groups to invite speakers to campus and, for the time being, that policy would stand.

Contact Brendan Bouffard at 377-1061 or [email protected].

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071027/NEWS01/710270332&template=printart
Sparking controversy:
 
Other speakers invited by Young Americans for Freedom have spurred protests on campus.
• On Nov. 30, 2006, YAF sponsored a forum on illegal immigration featuring Republican presidential hopeful U.S. Rep. Tom Tancredo. Protesters at that event pulled the fire alarm twice in an attempt to disrupt Tancredo's speech. Police were called in and, in an ensuing disturbance, YAF officials said they were kicked and spat on.
• In April, YAF invited Chris Simcox, leader of a Texas group that voluntarily patrols the border. Protesters banged on plastic chairs and shouted at the speaker before police asked them to leave. Several protesters refused to obey police orders and five were arrested.

What our posters think about this; I know that not everybody here like Nick Griffin and BNP, but for me it was leftist fascism pure and simple; they did the same on Rabbi Kahane meetings. And Ahmediajan was allowed to spew his anti zionist propagand at Kolumbia unchecked.  

[kellymaureen]

How anyone can deny the Holocaust is beyond me, there is plenty of evidence, photographic and otherwise AND more importantly there are people still alive today who survived it....its like saying that our Declaration of Independence was never written....yet there it is, it shoud be against the law to deny that the Holocaust happened, if you are stupid or ignorant enough to think that, whatever, but you shouldnt be allowed to be spewing it in public.
He is however, right on the money about islam.

Our universities have become cesspools of liberalism for the kumbya-lets all hold hands and be friends-our enemies are just like us just misunderstood crowd....I DREAD having to send my son to university in 6 years, he wont last, he's too much like me  If there was anywhere in the world I could send him for a higher education where he wouldnt be subject to that kind of crap i would in a heartbeat, no matter what the cost.  Im hoping he will decide to be a cop or firemen, something that wont require university

[Ultra Requete]

He was acused of Holocaust denieng by leftists who're more than willing to comitt another one for the sake of their palestinian friends. From what i read about him Nick Griffin and BNP are pro Jewish, pro Israeli and anti islamic; it was just a libel. When you call him a nazi you must say the same about Tancredo and Minutemen they were hecklered too by comie student mob.   

[kellymaureen]

From what Ive read BNP are the best chance for Englands survival...IF they do everything they say they will once in office of course...we always get promises then once a party takes power they seem to forget.

I read that Angela Merkel just made forced marriages illegal in Germany lol....I feel a fatwa coming on...

[newman]

I believe the PCing up of the right is part of the new-world, corporate, big-business fascist take-over. Rupert, Bill and the other multinational bosses have a one-world, no borders, cheap wage third worlder agenda. As patriotism, nationalism, Judaic/christian religious beliefs and REAL conservative values conflict with their agenda, they've instructed their puppets in western governments and their media companies to take the PC line.

[darrinh]

With this unholy convergence between the PC right and the PC left, we are coming perilously close to outlawing 'hate' in general; we will not even be allowed to 'hate' those who are trying to kill us or conquer us. As I've written before, how can we outlaw emotions, especially when it is natural to feel antipathy and anger, and yes, sometimes hate?

I think this is a very important point.  A PC nexus between the left/right will be disastrous for the future of Western civilisation.  Some conservatives go into throes of self-flagellation when accused of 'racism', previously strong conservative columnists (in Australia) lately seem to have picked up the PC script as well.  We basically have a socialist regime in Australia now and already the new deputy prime minister has been assigned the role of spokeman for "social inclusion".  God help us because nobody else is going to.   

[q_q_]

The BNP are nazis with suits.

They have gone silent in their anti-semitism, because nowadays being anti-semitic is political suicide.

There is actually a statement by Nick Griffin himself, essentially saying that jews run the world and have their claws in everything.. but not to say it openly.

There have been investigations into the BNP members, who are very anti-jewish. 

I would have to search around to be sure and show all that.  But I do recall
The documentary by Richard Littlejohn on anti-semitism, that documentary is on youtube, and it quotes Nick Griffin, the BNP leader.

Look on wikipedia, he spoke of a holohoax

"
Anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial
In issue 12 of the BNP publication The Rune (see above) he called the Holocaust "the Holohoax" and criticized the Holocaust denier David Irving for admitting in an interview that up to four million Jews might have died in the Holocaust. Griffin wrote: "True Revisionists will not be fooled by this new twist to the sorry tale of the Hoax of the Twentieth Century." [7][8][9] Griffin was eventually prosecuted for his articles in The Rune (see below).
"

Now, The David Irving incident was not that long ago.


In 1997 he told an undercover journalist that he had updated Richard Verrall's Holocaust denial book Did Six Million Really Die?. He also described his former MP, Alex Carlile, QC, who had reported The Rune to the police, as "this bloody Jew... whose only claim is that his grandparents died in the Holocaust."[3]

In his defence during his 1998 prosecution (see below), Griffin said: "I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the world is flat ... I have reached the conclusion that the 'extermination' tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria."[10

"

It is only in 2005 - so, very very recent
according to wikipedia, he has said
"
His more recent public stance in this area is illustrated by the section "It's all a Zionist scam" in his 2005 article "Dealing with Peak Oil Criticisms". Nick Griffin has also revised his holocaust-denial, now accepting that there was a programme of extermination during WW2. Griffin went on record in 2005 stating "This party has finally cast off the leg iron of anti-Semitism and not a moment too soon." The BNP currently has a Jewish councillor, Patricia Richardson, and has stated that it has Jewish members.[11]
"

So there you are. He made that statement in some magazine article.  His party members are still a bunch of anti-semites. A party does not change overnight.   And swaths of anti-semites do not change overnight.  Anyhow, I have seen programs where the BNP have been infiltrated and the anti-semitism that comes out..  It is the party of anti-semites.

It is true that they may deal with islam when the major parties do not.
 
There is a party that was quite strong on muslims, called UKIP.   They were like a non-anti-semitic version of the BNP.  But it faded into oblivion.. The leader was thrown off television for writing an article saying something like "we owe the arabs nothing".
 

[darrinh]

The BNP are nazis with suits.

They have gone silent in their anti-semitism, because nowadays being anti-semitic is political suicide.


It is true that they may deal with islam when the major parties do not.
 
There is a party that was quite strong on muslims, called UKIP.   They were like a non-anti-semitic version of the BNP.  But it faded into oblivion.. The leader was thrown off television for writing an article saying something like "we owe the arabs nothing".
 

I think that characterisation is somewhat unfair.  People do change their minds on issues and Nick is working to eliminate the anti-Semites and Nazi sympathisers from the BNP.  It's no easy task to against the grain like that.  The BNP is virtually one of the only parties in the U.K and one of the handfull in Europe generally who are speaking out against Islamification.  A little while ago I attended a lecture in Sydney by a visiting U.K priest who spoke about the issue of the mega-mosque proposed for London, he disparaged the BNP as "those racists" but admitted that nobody else but the BNP had done anything at all.  If people continue to attack the BNP over its past, then what you are really doing is condemning the people of Britain to almost certain dhimmitude.

[q_q_]

The BNP are nazis with suits.

They have gone silent in their anti-semitism, because nowadays being anti-semitic is political suicide.


It is true that they may deal with islam when the major parties do not.
 
There is a party that was quite strong on muslims, called UKIP.   They were like a non-anti-semitic version of the BNP.  But it faded into oblivion.. The leader was thrown off television for writing an article saying something like "we owe the arabs nothing".
 

I think that characterisation is somewhat unfair.  People do change their minds on issues and Nick is working to eliminate the anti-Semites and Nazi sympathisers from the BNP.  It's no easy task to against the grain like that.  The BNP is virtually one of the only parties in the U.K and one of the handfull in Europe generally who are speaking out against Islamification.  A little while ago I attended a lecture in Sydney by a visiting U.K priest who spoke about the issue of the mega-mosque proposed for London, he disparaged the BNP as "those racists" but admitted that nobody else but the BNP had done anything at all.  If people continue to attack the BNP over its past, then what you are really doing is condemning the people of Britain to almost certain dhimmitude.

well, you admit that they have many anti-semites and nazi sympathisers.  (not suprising given nick griffin`s paststatements about jews controlling the world, about the "holohoax". And given john tyndall .

I notice tags on BNP videos to include WPWW  .  I wait to see "white pride world wide" fight to remove racism or anti-semitism, or even anti-sikhism! from its midst ;-) 

I do not want to empower these anti-semites by having their party elected.

jewish school children, vulnerable people, and identifiably jewish- with kippot(jewish hats) on their head, had to put up with white thugs - and probably nowadays black thugs and asian gangs too.   But I do not want to empower the white thugs.

John Tyndall , who I think was with Mosely`s blackshirts, may unfortunately be right, that there must be some racial separateness in order to preserve "english culture". And not be a nation in name only.   But what about the "english blood" he speaks of.  And whether it is english race he preserves, and that is the only certain way to possibly preserve english culture..     Then the left wing jews, who make up quite a proportion of britain, will PISS the BNP OFF!!! Especially since they look white.   

And when the left wing jews, the assimilationist jews, piss them off.   They will attack all jews.   Because at the end of the day, they are full of anti-semites, and also, logically speaking, they see things in racial terms, not ideologically. For them the anti-semites, there are no left wing assimilationist jews and  right wing religious jews. There are jews, they are not english.  And as soon as some left wing jews piss them off, by for example, getting a job that they could not get, or by sinning and marrying out, then they are against all jews.     Nick Griffin may be against attacks on jews, but his party is who they are.  And it is really against jewish SURVIVAL interests, to support that.

And it is worse since britain is Godless.. they are not the israel loving bible believing christians of america (who thankfully, love israel because they believe that he who blesses israel(the people) shall be blessed). Like Germany, you`d have a godless society adopting a racial ideology, irritated by minorities that want to assimilate, and worst, jews, many of whome cannot be distinguished from them but are alien. have an alien culture.  Nope. Jews have last least learnt something from history for once.

 

[EagleEye]

And given john tyndall .

Who was expelled from the party years ago and I believe is now dead...don't stay stuck in the past.

The BNP is expressing anti anti-semitism, but not really pro-jew viewpoints.  It just thinks antisemites are annoying, but it doesn't really support Israel, it doesn't care either way.

[q_q_]

And given john tyndall .

Who was expelled from the party years ago and I believe is now dead...don't stay stuck in the past.

The BNP is expressing anti anti-semitism, but not really pro-jew viewpoints.  It just thinks antisemites are annoying, but it doesn't really support Israel, it doesn't care either way.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4697299.stm
"
A spokesman for the BNP said Mr Tyndall had been expelled from the BNP twice but added he was an "excellent chap with a keen analytical mind".

"John was a great fellow who knew exactly what our movement was about but it is fair to say that he was not able to carry that forward to electoral success," the spokesman said.
"

Anti-semitism will not get them elected.

As nick griffin said, it is a leg iron.

So, if they did get elected, they would have no reason to hide their anti-semitism.  At which point, the only thing protecting jews a bit, might be that they hate muslims more.

As that BNP spokesman says.  Tyndall understood what the party was about.   Truth is, so does Nick Griffin. But he will be a moderate, and cast off the anti-semitism, to get elected.

[EagleEye]

This is generally the impression I get, they enjoy the jew bashing but had to give up the "pastime" once they realized there were more dangerous enemies.  After all, you need at least some allies, and Jews have become the ally because Muslims have become the enemy.

[q_q_]

not really.

They do not need jews as an ally.  They do not have jews as an ally

Their problem is that the big jewish organisations say they are anti-semitic, and do everything in their power to screw them up.

So they decided it is easier to just not be anti-semitic. Because "the jews" are so damn powerful that there really is no other way to deal with the muslims.

If they had power, then being anti-semitic would not be a problem for Nick Griffin. As he said, anti-semitism is a leg iron.   Not that jews are allies.

Infact, in one of John Tyndall`s speeches on youtube, he says that the BOD(board of deputies) that is like the ADL but for britain. They called the hotel he was goin to speak at and managed to get him banned.

The ADL did things like that to stop Kahane from speaking.
That is the problem he has. 

In this case.. what the BOD is doing, is probably good for the jews and britain.   I do not know whether Kahane would have approved of those methods.. Since Nick Griffin himself is vocally anti nazi as I mentioned.

I am sure if jews allied with them they would be overjoyed. It would be alot harder for jewish organisations to say they were anti-semitic. And so jews are useful to them for this.  But they know these are only the "odd" jew..   

I have no idea what Kahane`s approach would have been to this.