Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Ultra Orthodox Jews Vs The Secular Israeli State
RationalThought110:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on November 28, 2007, 11:59:47 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on November 28, 2007, 09:25:33 PM ---I have alot of friends who are caught up in that cult.
They have misinterpreted ONE PASSAGE of the Talmud and they feel this outweighs the rest of the Talmud and the Entire Tanakh.
They are lunatics and should be excommunicated from Normative Judaism.
--- End quote ---
??? im guessing you haven't seen the video.(Ive seen the first). They are normal Haredim. In this case they did a lot of good- protesting the gay parade, and shutting down a cremetorium in Israel, good for them, we need more people like that (enforcing Judaism).
--- End quote ---
Then why did he refer to them as a cult?
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
--- Quote from: RationalThought110 on November 29, 2007, 12:47:25 AM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on November 28, 2007, 11:59:47 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on November 28, 2007, 09:25:33 PM ---I have alot of friends who are caught up in that cult.
They have misinterpreted ONE PASSAGE of the Talmud and they feel this outweighs the rest of the Talmud and the Entire Tanakh.
They are lunatics and should be excommunicated from Normative Judaism.
--- End quote ---
??? im guessing you haven't seen the video.(Ive seen the first). They are normal Haredim. In this case they did a lot of good- protesting the gay parade, and shutting down a cremetorium in Israel, good for them, we need more people like that (enforcing Judaism).
--- End quote ---
Then why did he refer to them as a cult?
--- End quote ---
Im not him, I dont know. Maybe he thought it was NK.
Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on November 28, 2007, 11:59:47 PM ---??? im guessing you haven't seen the video.(Ive seen the first). They are normal Haredim. In this case they did a lot of good- protesting the gay parade, and shutting down a cremetorium in Israel, good for them, we need more people like that (enforcing Judaism).
--- End quote ---
I don't think this is a lot of good. The faggots are not threatening Israel with annihilation, and as offensive as it is, neither is the cremation site. A Kahanist government would fight to save Israel right now and would deal with the fags later. At a time like this, when Israel's existence is threatened by self-hating kapos, this is very poor prioritization.
If the haredim would get together and use their tremendous social and Knesset clout to stop surrenders and pullouts that promise to annihilate the state of Israel, they would probably be able to stop this treason in its tracks. But they don't; in fact, many are anti-Zionist altogether.
This is why I have a problem with many (not all) haredim.
judeanoncapta:
There are very serious problems with "Normal" Hareidim.
I know, because I live with them and considered myself to be one until very recently.
The problem is that the attitude of "Normal" Hareidim is EXACTLY what is holding up the Geulah.
The attitude that Judaism is only what goes on in the bedroom and the kitchen, and not the all-encompassing Law that we are supposed to impose on a state level is why we don't have Geulah.
If the Normal Hareidi View of Judaism would stop being the view being followed and the Judaism of say Joshua or Ezra or Rabbi Yehudha HaNasi were what we followed, there would be a Temple standing on Har HaBayith.
You ever wonder why Hareidim don't learn Tanakh, or even for G-d's sake Mesekhtoth of the Gemara that are of practical use like Berakhoth or Hulin.
The reason they start young kids off with oxen goring each other and what if someone digs a hole on main street or what do we do if two people claim the same peice of cloth is so that the Torah remains "lore" and not "Law" in the eye of the young Hareidi.
They literally want the Torah to be impractical and irrelevant so that Jews will not ever wake up one day and say "Rambam, Hatham Sofer, Sefer HaHinukh, Minhath Hinukh, Rabbi Yechiel of Paris the list is practically endless. They ALL say that we are obligated to build the Temple right now!!!!!! Why aren't we doing it?"
And what answer could you possible give the masses if they ever realized that?
That the greatest Rabbis are too cowardly to enforce what the Torah clearly commands us to do?
It's the truth, but it is hard to take.
Besides something as large as the Temple, there various other things that Rabbis don't want their flock to realize.
A) Tahanun is supposed to be said in full prostration (HishtaHawaya) on the ground. This is clear from the numerous places when Tahanun is mentioned as well as from the Rambam in his Mishne Torah. Why we don't do it that way to day and instead sit with our arms placed in a strange manner on our head is a tragedy.
B) There is no such thing Halakhically as Ashkenazim and Sepharadim. According to Halakha, Minhagim go according to the place, not the person or his father. There is no Halakhic basis whatsoever for the idea that Ashkenazim and Sepharadim must maintain cultural or even Halakhic seperate identities when they live together whether in New York or Jerusalem. Most Rabbis are so stuck in the past that actually unifying the Jewish people(which the Maharal says will end the Galuth immediately) is completely beyond their capabilities.
C) Tzitzith is NOT underwear. It is supposed to attached to your outermost garment. The fact that we stuff an uncomfortable and illogical rectangular "garment" under our shirts is a tragedy.
D) The Herem of Rabbenu Gershom was never accepted in Eretz Yisrael, therefore any Jew living there can take a second, third, or even a hundredth wife with no problem according to Halakha. Public knowledge of this would radically change the culture of Galuth Judaism and is therefore suppressed.
E) The Hebrew spoken today whether modern, Sephardic, or Ashkenazic is full of errors. The true pronunciation is well know because Rav Saadya Gaon detailed it 1100 years ago. The fact that VERY few Jews follow the correct pronuncitation and instead feel the need to be loyal to whatever mistakes were common in the country of his great-grandfather's birth is a tragedy.
F) Jews do NOT have to listen to Gedolei HaTorah. If they formed a Sanhedrin, we would have to. Since they are too cowardly to do so, we don't. The Sanhedrin is something that Rabbis are afraid of, because it would require change of a major order as ANY Sanhedrin would have the right to argue and change practically any Halakha whether in Shulhan Arukh, THe Talmudh or even the Mishna. That fact is frightening to establishment Rabbis. They know it and they're scared to death.
I could go on and on. And in view of the myriad of Halakhic truths being suppressed, I call normative Hareidi Judaism a cult.
Yes, I do.
The reason that Tanakh is never learned is simple.
The Tanakh relates to Jews solely as a nation and NOT a religion. That is dangerous to the way most Jews view Judaism and therefore, it is not learned by Hareidim. Because if you learned Tanakh, you might discover or attempt to emulate Moshe, Yehoshua, Daweedh, Shelomo, Ezra and so forth. We can't have that, can we? Therefore among Hareidim, the Tanakh itself is suppressed. What a tragedy!!!!!! What an obscenity!!!!!!!!! What an abomination!!!!!!!!
If you, Tzvi, can contradict anything that I have written, I will take it back.
Until then, you'll just have to deal with the truth.
q_q_:
If Israel is secular - as it is currently.. Then we are in trouble..
I hope G-d does not throw us out of the land..
Israelis must be more religious. Certainly not anti religious.
But we still need a strong army..Jews faught wars with the help of G-d. We did not lie down in the sun, surrounded by our enemies. I hear that the ultra orthodox do not support the army very much.
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