Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Israel has a surprising friend in Poland
newman:
--- Quote from: EagleEye on December 07, 2007, 08:30:59 AM ---I believe the charge you are levying is that Polish antisemitism was a major factor in the holocaust, if I understand you correctly. While 3 million Polish Jews were killed, so were 3 million Polish Christians. And therefore it can be accepted, pretty easily, that German military force prevented Polish resistance. Thus we can deduce that the attitudes of the Polish people would not have mattered, even if they were pro-Jew.
--- End quote ---
What about before the war?
Forget about all the pogroms did you?
EagleEye:
If you shifted the goal post any further, you would be off the field. Your original argument dealt with the time period during WWII, not before or after it.
newman:
--- Quote from: EagleEye on December 07, 2007, 08:36:55 AM ---If you shifted the goal post any further, you would be off the field. Your original argument dealt with the time period during WWII, not before or after it.
--- End quote ---
Same people. Same attitude. What's the difference of 50 years either side of the war?
EagleEye:
Obviously close to 70 years, not to mention new children and dying adults, is enough to make a difference but that wasn't the point I was making. Cultural clash is understandable, mass-murder is not. Obviously Polish people should be pro-Polish. Just like Jewish people should be pro-Jewish. At times there are conflicting interests between populations. This could all be fixed with the respective self-determination of the two populations. In other words, Catholic fundamentalism and the Jewish community may have trouble mixing, but that doesn't make either inherently evil, it just makes them culturally incompatible. In other words, Polish people need not apologize for seeing the world from their own viewpoints, although they should progress their viewpoints. So I don't excuse mass murder, but the gentile world can't revolve around Jews, and obviously there are going to be clashes between Jews and their non-Jewish populations wherever they go, even America. My stance is that if Jews are upset with being the minority, they should go to Israel and they'll be the majority.
So in a lesser and more religious way, I accept that there was Polish antisemitism. I don't, however, accept that Nazi-style racist antisemitism, in which every Jew was set to be exterminated purely on account of blood, is equivalent to Catholic fundamentalism.
newman:
--- Quote from: EagleEye on December 07, 2007, 09:18:22 AM ---Obviously close to 70 years, not to mention new children and dying adults, is enough to make a difference but that wasn't the point I was making. Cultural clash is understandable, mass-murder is not. Obviously Polish people should be pro-Polish. Just like Jewish people should be pro-Jewish. At times there are conflicting interests between populations. This could all be fixed with the respective self-determination of the two populations. In other words, Catholic fundamentalism and the Jewish community may have trouble mixing, but that doesn't make either inherently evil, it just makes them culturally incompatible. In other words, Polish people need not apologize for seeing the world from their own viewpoints, although they should progress their viewpoints. So I don't excuse mass murder, but the gentile world can't revolve around Jews, and obviously there are going to be clashes between Jews and their non-Jewish populations wherever they go, even America. My stance is that if Jews are upset with being the minority, they should go to Israel and they'll be the majority.
So in a lesser and more religious way, I accept that there was Polish antisemitism. I don't, however, accept that Nazi-style racist antisemitism, in which every Jew was set to be exterminated purely on account of blood, is equivalent to Catholic fundamentalism.
--- End quote ---
Jews lived with christians in west european countries (except germany 32-45) and the USA, Australia , New Zealand, Canada and South Africa WITHOUT the same level of anti-semitism experienced on a daily basis in Poland and the east. So no excuse.
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