Author Topic: As Israel prepares to abandon territories, some Jews plan State of Judea  (Read 4776 times)

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Offline דוד בן זאב אריה

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As the government of Israel prepares to abandon tens of thousands -- and perhaps hundreds of thousands -- of Israeli citizens residing in Judea and Samaria, there are increasing calls from those residents and their supporters, in Israel and abroad, to declare an independent Jewish state in the areas vacated.

Among the latest to make this call is Rabbi Shalom Dov Wolpe, who told The Jerusalem Post on Thursday bluntly: "If the government withdraws from Judea and Samaria, then we will start a new state," said Wolpe. He plans to publish his views in an article that will appear this Shabbat in a weekly pamphlet called Our Land of Israel distributed to synagogues.

A year ago, Wolpe made headlines by sending a "warning letter" to then Acting PM Ehud Olmert, advising him that he would face "a personal catastrophe" if he moves forward with the evacuation of houses occupied by Jewish settlers in Hebron. "Don?t make the hasty move of abandoning the Land of Israel, and don't bring catastrophe upon the people of Israel and yourself," the rabbis write.

Wolpe is the founder of SOS Israel, a grassroots umbrella organization of right-wing groups who believe that Judea and Samaria belong to the Jewish People and must remain in Jewish hands. SOS has even organized a contest to choose a flag and a national anthem for the prospective state.

Wolpe -- a leader of the Chabad Chassidic sect that believes the deceased rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson is the messiah king -- published a book "Between Light and Darkness" that suggests religious Jews view the secular government as an "administrative body, like the British government who controlled Israel before the country's establishment.

Wolpe also says, "The religious Zionist public should prove that the State is unholy, and cannot serve as a means for achieving salvation. It must not pray for the country's wellbeing. We are now in exile and are waiting for the kingdom of the house of David." According to Wolpe, the pullout was a sign from God that there is no relation between the existence of the democratic state and salvation, and that the religious public should therefore cease to believe in the holiness of the State and its institutions.

Referring to the religious Zionist teens who forcefully attempted to prevent the disengagement, Wolpe writes that "the Orange youth prays only for one thing: That the current rule, which is called 'the State of Israel' is abolished and replaced with the true Kingdom of David."

Since the pullout, Wolpe's ideas are not so rare among the disheartened religious Zionists. In a Jerusalem conference held in 2005, the participants danced to the words of the song, "we do not believe in the rule of the heretics, and disregard their laws."

The destruction of Jewish communities in Gaza and northern Samaria in 2005 convinced Wolpe that it was essential to organize early, and take more dramatic steps. "Why should we wait until soldiers come to people's homes," he asked rhetorically. During the "Disengagement" Volpe envisioned creation of a Holocaust Museum to commemorate the expulsion of Jews and the destruction of their communities there.

The idea is not new. Of course there is the more than two thousand old legacy of two Jewish state: one called Israel and the other Judea. Israel was the first to go, and Judea followed, with the Romans putting an end to all that with the destruction of the Second Temple and the expulsion and enslaving of the surviving Jews in 70 C.E.

But in the 21st century, the idea of a separate Jewish state has gained some momentum, and the splitting of the Palestinian Authority into Gaza and the West Bank -- in additional to the Palestinian State of Jordan -- has apparently inspired the Jews on the West Bank (Judea and Samaria) to wonder: if they can get away it, why can't we?

Obadiah Shoher is the pseudonym of a mysterious author, originally from the former Soviet Union, who has created the popular Samson Blinded blog and publication of a book by the same name. Describing himself as a Zionist anarchist, he has taken an outspoken stance in support of a new State of Judea using what he describes as a "Machieavellian" strategy.

"Judea would encompass the contested Palestinian territories, with the aim of eventual expansion into Sinai and all of Eretz Israel. Although Judea would not be economically self-sustaining in industry as Israel, Judea would get the lion?s share of material support that pours into Israel from Jews around the world. Judea could defend herself against Arabs without great expense and depend on Israel and the West for last-resort protection against major Arab aggression."

Whereas Israel is saddled with the tension of being both "Jewish" and "democratic," the Judea that Shoher proposes would have no such conflict. "Being a profoundly religious Jewish state offers advantages in confrontation with Arabs which secular Israeli nation does not possess. Judea would be free to clear out Arab indigenous inhabitants. Following Hebrew biblical guidelines, Judea could use military measures otherwise unacceptable in the modern world?though the nations that decry them were themselves established in fire and blood--and unavailable to Israel."

If Hamas can apply Sharia law to Gaza, why can't Judea apply Jewish law? Shoher suggests: "Judea can forget the notion of civil rights and obey Jewish religious law. Unlike Israel, Judea can afford to stop non-Jewish immigration, directly or through inter-marriage of Jews with gentiles, and limit non-Jewish Orthodox conversions and other Jewish Reformist practices, which, though compatible with modern secular values, significantly water down the Jewish religious identity."

"Judea could become a classic Jewish theocracy, organized along the lines of pre-kingdom Israel ruled by the judges, giving rabbis in Judea the judicial functions of the late Second Temple period onward. Judea could use Talmudic law, updated to accommodate present reality of Jewish life, instead of contemporary Israeli legislation. An influx of fresh Jewish ideas into the body of the Talmud would benefit the Jewish tradition and spark renewed interest of Israelis in it. Judea?s official language would be the beautifully powerful biblical Hebrew, not the modern garbled Hebrew substitute spoken by Israeli Jews."

Shoher points out the benefits of a Jewish spin-off state to the mother nation: "Israel could withdraw from the contested Palestinian territories, enjoy peace with Israel's Arab neighbors, and concentrate on rapid economic development of the Jewish state. That would win Israel some international respect. Israel could become the dominant Middle Eastern economy, replacing Switzerland, the United States, and Russia as the source of financial, technological, and military commodities and services to Muslims. Western powers will not compete with Israel for hegemony in a Middle East plunged in incessant wars between Arabs after Muslims lose the common Israeli enemy." He adds that "Relieving Israel of her war expenditures will let Israel work to recapture Jewish prominence in banking and trade, fundamental research and technology, and the arts."

There would be internal benefits as well: "Dividing Israel into two states, Israel and Judea, would not cause enmity among Jews, rather would eliminate the enmity currently brewing in Israel where whatever policy Israeli government chooses displeases to about half the Israeli population. The division of Israel would let both Israel and Judea 'specialize' and limit their liability. Israel would not be responsible for Judea?s expansionism, while Judea, financed by Israelis, might disregard the economic consequences of its decisions."

But wouldn't it be illegal to advocate a new state in Judea and Samaria? Perhaps so at the moment, when the laws of the State of Israel are still applied there: civil law to Israelis, and military law to Palestinians. But what about a scenario in which the government of Israel withdraws and disconnects from the disputed territories? In the resulting power vacuum, a declaration of independence might well result without infringing in any way Israeli law.
If Israel is prepared to abandon all claims to the Biblical heartland of the Jewish People, it stands to reason that there will be Jews -- those who live there and those who believe Jews have a right to live there -- yet willing to take a stand and fight for that right.
David Ben Ze'ev Aryeh


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I'd rather a small State of REAL Jews in Judea & Samaria. Let the self-haters and leftists live with the arabs in Tel Aviv and locale and G-d will do the devine wrath thing whilst protecting the real Jews.

Offline Eliezer Ben Avraham

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Rabbi Kahane was trying to implement this idea in his later years
KAHANE TZADAK!

Offline Eliezer Ben Avraham

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Shoher needs to face reality. Except for a handful of millionares, Judea and Samara have no economic backers. And what, Judea and Samara will just magically create an army to beat the Arabs. And no settlers will be living there when Israel withdraws from there, G-d forbid. Israeli stormtroopers will expell all of the Jewish inhabitants, like they did in all other times. This is a stupid idea.
it's a powerful threat to the Israeli government if we can organize it. We can threaten to secede from Israel and form our own Judean state. Hopefully we wouldn't have to, but they better not take us from our homes
KAHANE TZADAK!

Offline דוד בן זאב אריה

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I'd rather a small State of REAL Jews in Judea & Samaria. Let the self-haters and leftists live with the arabs in Tel Aviv and locale and G-d will do the devine wrath thing whilst protecting the real Jews.

I agree with you on principle but we need to rid Israel of the so called Israeli Arabs
David Ben Ze'ev Aryeh


Offline דוד בן זאב אריה

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You are right. Israel will become a puppet and Judah will become the source of all the new worlds problems. But we don't care what people think we have been the source of blame since G-d created this world.
David Ben Ze'ev Aryeh


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You are right. Israel will become a puppet and Judah will become the source of all the new worlds problems. But we don't care what people think we have been the source of blame since G-d created this world.

Of coarse.

Christians and muSSlims would have had to invent Jews if they'd never existed.

Offline Ultra Requete

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Shoher needs to face reality. Except for a handful of millionares, Judea and Samara have no economic backers. And what, Judea and Samara will just magically create an army to beat the Arabs. And no settlers will be living there when Israel withdraws from there, G-d forbid. Israeli stormtroopers will expell all of the Jewish inhabitants, like they did in all other times. This is a stupid idea.
it's a powerful threat to the Israeli government if we can organize it. We can threaten to secede from Israel and form our own Judean state. Hopefully we wouldn't have to, but they better not take us from our homes

The Shmolmert and gang already prepered to this by:
Thursday, December 6, 2007
Judea and Samaria: IDF Rounding Up Jews' Weapons 

 Judea and Samaria: IDF Rounding Up Jews' Weapons
by Gil Ronen
A7News 06 December, 2007
The IDF is conducting a large scale operation to confiscate weapons from the
Jewish residents of Judea and Samaria, according to Channel 10 TV. The
purpose of the operation is described as "putting the settlers' gun permits
in order."

The security coordinators of the communities in Samaria have been summoned
to a meeting with IDF officers Thursday, and community leaders are convinced
that the IDF intends to collect many of the weapons in the Jewish
communities in Judea and Samaria.

Hillel Reinus of Yitzhar said: "I have no idea who is giving the order, it
seems to be coming from up high, but they've decided to take the weapons
away from everyone." Another resident of the community, Yigal Amitai,
added, "They are abandoning citizens, it is an irresponsibile act, but
everything pales compared to reality."

'This amounts to making the settlers fair game'

MK Aryeh Eldad (NU/NRP) wrote a letter to Defense Minister Ehud Barak
following the report, saying, "Army representatives have recently informed
the military security coordinators that they intend to collect most of the
weapons which the residents of Judea and Samaria use for self-defense. When
a move such as this is made along with the release of hundreds of
terrorists, the deployment of Palestinian policemen in Shechem (three of
whom were involved in the murder of Ido Zoldan) and the arming of these
policemen with weapons, ammunition and armored personnel carriers, this
amounts to making the settlers fair game and sending the terror
organizations a clear message that they may murder Jews."

"When all this is done against the backdrop of your announcement that you
are joining the 'expulsion/compensation' plan, this amounts to blackmail.
You are trying to encourage Jews to run away from Judea and Samaria, and in
order to prod them along you are taking away their weapons and urging
terrorists to attack them," he wrote.

"With this letter," Eldad concluded, "I wish to inform you that the settlers
of Judea and Samaria will hold you personally responsible for any casualties
among the Jews in Judea and Samaria from now on, unless you immediately put
an end to the process of collecting the settlers' weapons."

http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=37129

In any way you have to do this before US will implement the Palestinian state acording to Annapolis and arm the PLO thugs with heavy weapons armored vechicles.

 
Jeremiah 8:11-17

11 They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. Peace, peace, they say, when there is no peace.

12 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; they will be brought down when they are punished, says the LORD.

13 'I will take away their harvest, declares the LORD. There will be no grapes on the vine. There will be no figs on the tree, and their leaves will wither. What I have given them will be taken from them.'

14 Why are we sitting here? Gather together! Let us flee to the fortified cities and perish there! For the LORD our God has doomed us to perish and given us poisoned water to drink, because we have sinned against him.

15 We hoped for peace but no good has come, for a time of healing but there was only terror.

16 The snorting of the enemy's horses is heard from Dan; at the neighing of their stallions the whole land trembles. They have come to devour the land and everything in it, the city and all who live there.

17 See, I will send venomous snakes among you, vipers that cannot be charmed, and they will bite you, declares the LORD.

Love your Enemy
And Heap Burning Coals on his Head!!!
http://net-burst.net/revenge/love_and_wrath_of_God.htm

Offline Eliezer Ben Avraham

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If this happens then watch the international community magically start supporting Israel and start blaming all the world's problems on Judea.  Wherever the real Jews are, that's where the world focuses its hatred.
thats not true. The leftist Jews are hated just as much as us right-wingers. The leftists are considered robbers as well, only they choose to admit it in the eyes of the world
KAHANE TZADAK!

Offline Dexter

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Shoher needs to face reality. Except for a handful of millionares, Judea and Samara have no economic backers. And what, Judea and Samara will just magically create an army to beat the Arabs. And no settlers will be living there when Israel withdraws from there, G-d forbid. Israeli stormtroopers will expell all of the Jewish inhabitants, like they did in all other times. This is a stupid idea.
O0
Not a foreign land we took and not with foreign possession but a land that belong to our ancestors that was occupied without a trial. And when we had the opportunity, we took our land back.
-Shimon Maccabee's answer to Antiochus VII Sidetes.

"When fighting monsters, be wary not to become one... When you gaze into the abyss, it also gazes into you."
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