Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea

Woman as Rabbis(or preists for the Gentiles)

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takebackourtemple:
   In the ask JTF show for November 19th, Chaim gave answers to why women cannot be rabbis and cannot read from the torah. I've added preist to include the gentiles.

1. A rabbi/preist needs to have the proper ordination.
2. The first was that it would give men impure thoughts while they are praying and that while it would do the same for women, hashem trusts women more than they do men.
3. Women are impure during their period and it is a sin to touch something holy when you are impure.

   I have questions about all three things that were mentioned, but in my opinion feel that item #3 has the most merit. IF WE COULD LIMIT THIS POST TO ITEM #3 FOR NOW IT WOULD BE GREAT. I did a google search and found the most common source of discussion relates to Leviticus 15. http://www.mum.org/leviticu.htm. Does anyone have any other sources to this topic?

   One term I see here is "unclean". From what I read, a man can be clean or unclean just as a woman can. In the absence of items 1 and 2, would a woman be allowed to do rabinical duties when she was clean? Does this restrict a male rabbi from being able to do his job when he is "unclean". It sure sounds difficult to be clean under this passage. Looks like the word "impure" is used for the woman and not the man. Is it the "impure" and not the "unclean" that prevents the woman from performing rabinical duties?

takebackourtemple:
Leviticus 12:2-5 also references "she shall not touch any consecrated thing, nor enter the sanctuary until the days of her purification are completed".

jdl4ever:
I appreciate your questions but they are hard to answer so briefly because you are missing a lot of critical information.  To start with, there are different levels of uncleanliness and each one has their own series of laws which are complex even from a biblical stand point.  Secondly, a woman's unleanliness is far greater than a man's uncleanliness (in fact, it is one of the highest forms of uncleanliness and can render sanctified food unclean simply by touching).

In my own opinion, this is not a good reason why woman are not allowed to be Rabbis, and if Chaim said this I disagree.  The second reason he gave is a good reason why women can't become Rabbis though.  There are two main reasons whey women can't become Rabbis in my view besides #2 that Chaim gave.  The primary is tradition.  Judaism was founded on oral tradition dating back to even before the bible was given.  Since the time of Abrahaim, who discovered an immense amount of information about G-d through his own intellect and through prophesy, Judaism was completely an orally based religion passed down from father to son for hundreds of years and that is what kept us together as a nation in Egypt.  After we left Egypt, an expanded oral law was given by Moses as well as a written law so that the oral law should not be forgotten.  In the bible, it is menchaned many times how vital it is to pass down the law from father to son and there are too many examples to list.  According to our ancient tradition, women can not become Rabbis.  To Jews, tradition has the same significance as if the bible says something outright.  Why is another question.  There are many theories, but what matters is that it is not allowed. 

The second reason is listed in the Gemara and it has to do with the way women think that make them incapable of making complex halachic decisions.  Over my experiences, I found that women think very differently than men do and are much more superficial, stubbern and incabable of being refuted or agrued with (they cry if you prove them wrong, get insulted very quickly if you present a different view then what they learned etc) which all make them unable to become Rabbis where this is required to study the Torah and amplify it through arguments and refutations.  I personally found that women's major problem is that they have a huge preselection bias which means that whatever view/opinion that they hear first they retain that view forever and are incabable of dropping it no matter how much proof you bring to the contrary.  This is the worst thing a Rabbi could have since they must always second guess themselves and drop interpuitations on a dime if they find proofs to the contrary.  They also are made to multi task which is good for taking care of children but it is bad for studying complex issues since for this you must be able to concentrate on one issue for many days to reach a decision and they have no patience for such things.  I am not saying anything bad about women, since G-d made both men and women with different strengths and weaknesses, but it is a fact that the qualities of women are not compadible with Rabbinal positions.  The qualities of women make them better at raising children and doing occupations that take advantage of their unique qualities. 

Donpeyote:
 OF the 3 Rabbis at my Temple (over last 6 Years i have been a member) The Lady Rabbi is a CLOSE SECOND to a very Famous longtime   Bay Area Rabbi from Brooklyn Who was with us the  last 2 years (Before Retirement) and He was as Good as it Gets! And I miss them both! :'(   

takebackourtemple:
Ok. Since my question wasn't answered I'll drop my request to keep this post limited to point #3. I'm still requesting that these point get addressed independent of each other if they can.

2. It would give men impure thoughts while they are praying and that while it would do the same for women, hashem trusts women more than they do men.

   Wouldn't the best solution to this problem be completely separated services then? If this was the case, wouldn't we need women rabbis to lead the women's services and men rabbis for the men's services?

___________________________________________________________________________________________________ _____________
   I'll just include my personal belief for reference. I believe that a woman should be entitled to the same rights and responsibilities when it can be done in a responsible manner. I'm not against a congregation that holds different oral beliefs but share the same written torah. Christian faith is a good example. This is why I see point #3 to have merrit over the other two. In the case of a non-orthodox synagogue, I respect a potential woman rabbi who loves hashem, Israel and the Jewish people, but despise the majority that are hippies who turn the services into left wing politics and substitute prayers for songs written by artists such as Pete Seeger and the Beatles.
   The last time I went to a service led by a woman rabbi, it was a result of being invited through the JCC. I ended up driving in circles for a while before finding out that it actually was in the church that I was driving by. The kosher food that the JCC advertised turned out to be pot luck with whatever people decided to bring. They were making a big deal about some artwork(which looked like it was done by a third grader but was really done by a professional artist) to be put up on the beema. Turn! Turn! Turn! was one of their prayers. Another one(I think it was Aveenu Malkanu) had Save Darfur placed in it. Here is the website for anyone that wants to know more about this congregation. http://www.beittikvah.org/.
   Admin. I hope I'm not commiting lashon harah by talking about this so called rabbi. If so, will inviting her to this forum make it not lashon harah. Please delete this if it is.

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