Should I move to Israel? Am I even eligible?

[Khazan]

Hello, greetings and salutations to all.  I first watched JTF almost weekly about 3 years ago, then went on and off for a year, then recently saw there was a JTF forum up and running. 

Anyway, I'm not sure if the big chief, Chaim, will get to answer this, it'd be nice, but other input would be swell too, especially for anyone living in Israel. 

I will be graduating come August and am considering studying Hebrew in Israel and perhaps even moving there.  I went there this last summer on Birthright and absolutely loved it. 

Thing is, I was raised Christian, yet my Mom's maiden name is Hebrew, Hazen, which comes from the Hebrew Khazan, which means cantor.  I put this on my birthright application, I didn't [censored] my way into the trip, and I guess that was good enough for them.  Most likely, my ancestors were in fact practicing Jews, but then converted to Christianity to avoid persecution.  It looks like I want to go back to being Jewish, to some extent. 

I don't see myself becoming entirely religious, but I think it's good for Jews to live in Israel.  How would I go about proving my "Jewishness" should I apply for citizenship?  Would that work, say giving them my Mom's birth certificate and pointing out her surname is Hebrew?  I suppose telling them I went on Birthright would help too. 

Even if that does work, like I said, I don't see myself becoming entirely religious.  Despite this, is it still important for Jews who are not religious to live in Israel?  I think all Jews have their part to play for world Jewry as a whole, religious, secular, etc.  The world has not been kind to Jews for the last 2000 years, and Chaim is right when he says the world now wants the Jews to commit suicide in giving away Israel to pre-67 borders, he points out that even the left wing Abba Eban called the pre-67 borders "Auschwitz lines." 

[Lisa]

Welcome to the forum. 

Now can I ask you to please change your username?  The reference to Baal will not go over well here.

[Khazan]

Oh, but don't you just love the irony?   
I suppose I could if it's going to be a problem. 

[Lisa]

The thing is, people here don't know you.  So it might come across as you making fun of Judaism.  But once they do get to know you, then you *might* be able to get away with such a username. 

[Khazan]

I would, but it doesn't let you register multiple accounts from the same computer.  I see your point, I guess I just have a silly sense of humor.  Hrm...you're a mod, could you change my account name to "Khazan"? 

[Lisa]

Certainly.

[mord]

Hazan is a sephardic name

[Ehud]

Hazan is a Sefardic name

I have some Hazans in my family. 

I hope this guy isn't a Muslim Nazi who wants to try to scam his way into Israel....

[mord]

Maybe he is your releative although Hazan is very common

[Dan]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

[Ehud]

Maybe he is your releative although Hazan is very common

Maybe, but probably not.  The Hazans in my family are in Israel for 70 years now.  You never know though...

[MasterWolf1]

Welcome aboard

[mord]

Yes welcome!

[Ehud]

I don't see myself becoming entirely religious, but I think it's good for Jews to live in Israel.  How would I go about proving my "Jewishness" should I apply for citizenship?  Would that work, say giving them my Mom's birth certificate and pointing out her surname is Hebrew?  I suppose telling them I went on Birthright would help too. 

I don't think this would be sufficient. If you're serious about it, I would contact some Aliyah organization.  I'm sure Taglit could hook you up with some who would be far better at helping you than we would. 

One problem is that your mother's surname might be Hebrew, but her surname came from her dad, so there isn't any way to determine Jewish lineage.  For all you know, you had almost exclusive Christian lineage except your possibly Jewish grandfather who gave your mom the Khazan surname, which would mean that you wouldn't be considered Jewish. 

[Khazan]

Thanks for changing my screen name.  I don't know, I guess I just found it humorous, "Baalist Jew."  But given the subject matter of this forum, I guess "Khazan" is much better.  I still have difficulties with religion I guess, even Judaism, I love seeing the Torah being opened and read at Shul, but I also believe in evolution.  Like I said, I was raised Christian, and Christians are essentially Judeo-pagans, so in a way I am a "Baalist Jew" Yacov, in that for a good portion of my life I committed idolatry in worshiping Jesus, which I no longer do, nor will I ever do again. 

Hazan is a Sefardic name

Really?  I remember typing in Hazen in the Yad Vashem search engine and there were a lot of Hazen's from Poland and Eastern Europe, which would be Ashkenazi. 

If you want to return to being a Jew, you will have to have a real conversion, meaning to be religiously observant according to Halacha.

Doesn't the Law of Return also stipulate that the grandchild of a Jew can also move to Israel?  Not just if their mother is Jewish?  I'd be all about going to Israel by that, but I don't think I could convert to orthodox Judaism, for one, I love non kosher food. 

Hazan is a Sefardic name

I have some Hazans in my family. 

I hope this guy isn't a Muslim Nazi who wants to try to scam his way into Israel....

I don't think donors to JTF are Muslims, let alone Nazis, and for that matter Muslim Nazis.  Nor people who go on the birthright program and help areas in Israel that were affected by the second Lebanon war. 

You have Hazen's in your family?  Perhaps we had a common ancestor somewhere down the line.  My great Uncle, my grandfather's brother, showed me the family crest, and there's star of david's on it. 

[Ehud]

You have Hazen's in your family?  Perhaps we had a common ancestor somewhere down the line.  My great Uncle, my grandfather's brother, showed me the family crest, and there's star of david's on it. 

That's great that you volunteered to help after the war, I was thinking of volunteering for one of those sorts of organizations but never got to it.  Good you followed through with it.

Yes, Hazans.  We don't have common ancestors though because the Hazan married my mother's cousin, so my second cousins are Hazans but I don't have any Hazan ancestors.  Hazan is Sephardic and I don't have any Sephardic ancestors. 

[Daniel]

If you want to return to being a Jew, you will have to have a real conversion, meaning to be religiously observant according to Halacha.

If his matralinial line is Jewish, then isn't he already halachically Jewish?

[Khazan]

I never understood the whole maternal thing.  I guess "Jewish" is determined by mother, but your tribe is paternal.  Same genes though, and that's just commentary, doesn't seem exactly to be favored by natural selection.  But the law of return says people can become citizens if they had grandparents who were Jewish.  My grandfather was Episcopalian, but he has a Hebrew name.  To me, "Jew" is a ultimately a clade, a people who have descended from a common ancestor:  Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  I guess you could say I'm a Jew removed a couple generations.  I found that interesting, signed up for birthright, and wonder if perhaps destiny wants me to go to Israel again and become a citizen.  I find Judaism interesting and I love Israel. 

[JTFFan]

certainly

[Khazan]

Why is that Bolshevik law?  It was passed to be based on Nazi racial laws on who was Jewish, so as to provide a refuge for those who suffer anti-semitism, albeit not being halakically Jewish--rather ironic.  I actually think it's quite sad modern Judaism hasn't evolved passed silly commentaries of the middle ages.  I wonder if Mordechai Vanunu is halachically Jewish, while I'm not (at least directly) I would never have done what he had. 

I don't practice any religion really, besides the occasional Jewish Holiday at my University's Chabad house.  Do you think I'd be eligible for free Ulpan if I do go back, or is that for those who are maternally Jewish?  Would someone making aliyah who had a Jewish grandfather have to pay for their Ulpan

[Dr. Dan]

FIrst thing is that your last name came from your father...so you're definately not Jewish even though there is a remote possibility you have Jewish blood from your father's side.

Anyway, it makes no difference..It's nice that you are interested in Hebrew, and moving to Israel and Judaism.  The proper thing to do relentlessly and without discouragement is to find an Orthodox rabbi and tell him what you want to do.  If you should convert to Judaism, you need to practice it in a very observant manner.  If it is too much for you, then I would recommend Noahidism which is just as good and not as hard to follow compared to Judaism.  If you choose to live in Israel, you need to learn Hebrew fluently. But, in order to become a citizen you need to be Jewish and preferbly from an Orthodox Rabbi. I don't think Conservative and Reform conversions count for Israeli citizenship.

[Khazan]

It's actually my grandfather.  See, I think I could still be a citizen under the amendment to the law of return in the 70's allowing grandchildren of Jews or spouses to become citizens as well.  The thing is, I'm sure my early ancestors practiced Judaism then converted to Christianity to avoid persecution.  My family crest is a shield with a cross in the middle, and four star of David's in the four parts divided by the cross. 

[Dr. Dan]

It's actually my grandfather.  See, I think I could still be a citizen under the amendment to the law of return in the 70's allowing grandchildren of Jews or spouses to become citizens as well.  The thing is, I'm sure my early ancestors practiced Judaism then converted to Christianity to avoid persecution.  My family crest is a shield with a cross in the middle, and four star of David's in the four parts divided by the cross. 

Listen, convert the proper way..you'll be better off...even if the easy way were legal.

[Dr. Dan]

It's actually my grandfather.  See, I think I could still be a citizen under the amendment to the law of return in the 70's allowing grandchildren of Jews or spouses to become citizens as well.  The thing is, I'm sure my early ancestors practiced Judaism then converted to Christianity to avoid persecution.  My family crest is a shield with a cross in the middle, and four star of David's in the four parts divided by the cross. 

Listen, convert the proper way..you'll be better off...even if the easy way were legal.

He can't convert unless he's sincere and we're not supposed to insist. Instead we should encourage him to be a Noahide.

That's right..i forgot i mentioned that.

[Khazan]

I would honestly consider being an Israeli citizen if I don't have to convert.  My grandfather's surname is Hebrew, I am part Hebrew and entitled to the land of my ancestors.